[ARCHIVED THREAD] - PA 3-18 - details? (Page 2 of 5)
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Still June/July for this? This will be directly competing for my business with the new 2.5-15 and 4-16 Athlons, especially if it has some sort of badass mil reticle as an option. Here is ATHENA. Athena is pure long range accuracy, the center section is a small chevron surrounded by 0.1 and 0.2 MRAD ranging blocks and dots. The center is pretty fine so it won't be obtrusive at high magnification.  Here is R-GRID-2B. R-Grid replaces the center section of the reticle with a big ACSS horseshoe and chevron, which are helpful at low magnifications to give you a good center aiming point that doesn't just disappear at 3-5x magnification. At high magnifications they are more likely to get in your way visually, but R-GRID is arguably more flexible for effective use throughout the entire magnification range of the optic. 
Obviously both reticles features horizonal and vertical ranging, and a lot of MRAD grid to work with for holdovers. |
| $500 is a lot of cheddar for an average joe like myself but I dont think there is really anything else out there in the price range in that magnification. The Vortex 3-18 was supposed to be out a while ago but never showed up. Ill just have to save my lunch money I guess |
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$500 is a lot of cheddar for an average joe like myself but I dont think there is really anything else out there in the price range in that magnification. The Vortex 3-18 was supposed to be out a while ago but never showed up. Ill just have to save my lunch money I guess Vortex makes great stuff, but if I were to nitpick it I would say they erred when they made the objective lens only 44mm instead of 50mm. They did it so you could use lower rings to mount the scope closer to the barrel for bolt action applications, but we normally think in terms of AR-15 / AR-308 applications and gave ours a 50mm objective lens for better light gathering at dust and dawn, and a slightly better exit pupil (2.7mm instead of 2.4mm) at 18x magnification. In other words ours will be less "picky" to work with at full magnification. |
| I’ve been waiting on this since the first info was released about it. Not sure which reticle I’ll buy though. Currently have two of the HUD .308’s and one HUD 5.56. One of the .308’s is on my RPR. It works well on the rifle. Not sure if I’ll stay with the HUD, or wait for the R-GRID-2B? |
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I have a 4-14 R-Grid, but it's a bit busy for what I use it for, I'm waiting for the Athena to hit the store Having looked through the 3-18x50 R-Grid 2B, it's not even close. The new one is much better. *crickets chirping chirp chirp chirp (Mid July) chirp chirp chirp |
Robski came out to Vegas and shot the Apollo 6.5CM with Dimitri. Some cool footage here including some shots where you can see the bullet trace really nicely. If you ever run into Robski in real life, don't be afraid to approach the guy and shake his hand. He is exactly who he seems to be in these videos. It's an exciting and happy thing to be a Robski. Awesome, On Budget, 3-18x FFP Scope with ACSS from Primary Arms! |
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I see the pre-order for the .308... 6.5 reticle second batch? |
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I have an original R-Grid as well, it lives on my Remington 700 Police. Having looked through the 3-18x50 R-Grid 2B, it's not even close. The new one is much better. *crickets chirping chirp chirp chirp (Mid July) chirp chirp chirp Quoted:
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I have a 4-14 R-Grid, but it's a bit busy for what I use it for, I'm waiting for the Athena to hit the store Having looked through the 3-18x50 R-Grid 2B, it's not even close. The new one is much better. *crickets chirping chirp chirp chirp (Mid July) chirp chirp chirp |
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How do you like the rgrid on your precision gun vs a traditional mil dot ? at the 9 mil drop point (which I've never had to use that much windage, and the 2B version is more realistic) (not my pic) 
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How do you like the rgrid on your precision gun vs a traditional mil dot ? Those things were all brand new when the US Military adopted the Mil-Dot system. The Apple IIe personal computer would not be released for a few years yet, and Iran was still on our side, allied against the Soviet Union. To me, the hard core Mil-dot guys are still driving around that Ford LTD going "Hey it does everything I need it to do, it's always worked for me and it's special to me because it's the car my dad taught me to drive in." Ok, I respect that, that's fine. Good for you. 
But when they get passed by a guy in a Tesla that makes 518 horsepower without using a drop of gasoline and the driver is leaned back in his seat with his arms folded because the car is driving itself with Traffic Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer lane keeping, they don't understand it. They don't trust it. They are bewildered and it looks like some sort of witchcraft to their mindset. That's what a holdover reticle does. Last year we had a guy email us about an ad hoc long range competition he participated in. After an afternoon of various challenges, for the big finale they put gallon jugs of water at 1,000 yards and the first guy to score a hit would be declared the winner. He was using our HUD DMR 308 reticle. He held on the thousand yard BDC, fired and missed. His spotter called out the miss in inches. Since 1 MIL or MRAD is 1 yard at 1000 yards, it was easy for him to figure out his adjustment from inches to MILs and he dialed in a correction using the turrets and scored a hit with his second shot, ending the match. His was the only rifle to fire. Everyone else was still doing math and counting elevation clicks. He said some of the other shooters were really angry with him, that they had gone all the way to the range and paid entry money and never even got to fire a shot during the final challenge. Boy that Tesla sure is quiet when it glides by. 
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This response = Awesome!
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I think the traditional mil-dot is historically important and it's good to understand how it works and it's place in history. Like listening to KISS on an 8-track, or going to the grocery store in grandma's '70s Ford LTD. Those things were all brand new when the US Military adopted the Mil-Dot system. The Apple IIe personal computer would not be released for a few years yet, and Iran was still on our side, allied against the Soviet Union. To me, the hard core Mil-dot guys are still driving around that Ford LTD going "Hey it does everything I need it to do, it's always worked for me and it's special to me because it's the car my dad taught me to drive in." Ok, I respect that, that's fine. Good for you. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/FordLTD_pre-'83.jpg But when they get passed by a guy in a Tesla that makes 518 horsepower without using a drop of gasoline and the driver is leaned back in his seat with his arms folded because the car is driving itself with Traffic Aware Cruise Control and Autosteer lane keeping, they don't understand it. They don't trust it. They are bewildered and it looks like some sort of witchcraft to their mindset. That's what a holdover reticle does. Last year we had a guy email us about an ad hoc long range competition he participated in. After an afternoon of various challenges, for the big finale they put gallon jugs of water at 1,000 yards and the first guy to score a hit would be declared the winner. He was using our HUD DMR 308 reticle. He held on the thousand yard BDC, fired and missed. His spotter called out the miss in inches. Since 1 MIL or MRAD is 1 yard at 1000 yards, it was easy for him to figure out his adjustment from inches to MILs and he dialed in a correction using the turrets and scored a hit with his second shot, ending the match. His was the only rifle to fire. Everyone else was still doing math and counting elevation clicks. He said some of the other shooters were really angry with him, that they had gone all the way to the range and paid entry money and never even got to fire a shot during the final challenge. Boy that Tesla sure is quiet when it glides by. http://europe.autonews.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/storyimage/CA/20180220/ANE/180219831/AR/0/Tesla.jpg&MaxW=622&cci_ts=20180225162915 |
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If you don't need a bunch of speed up close at low magnifications, then Athena. It has the finer features in the center for shooting those sub-inch groups at 100 yards, and super precise holdovers out to 200, 300, 400 yards. If you want speed up close then you'll want the big horseshoe of R-Grid to act like a dot at low magnifications, and then use the grid for holdovers at longer ranges past 300 yards. Athena is the more precise reticle, but slower than R-Grid to acquire out in the field. If you're shooting from prone, not on a timer, and trying to get the smallest groups possible, Athena. If you're hunting on the move in Missouri with the scope set to 3x in case a deer pops out of the treeline 50 yards away, then R-Grid. Also, the final version of the R-Grid 2B reticle is partially, not fully, illuminated. The diagram I posted above shows the whole thing in red, but in fact only the center chevron and horseshoe illuminate in red. |
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Quoted: On the prototypes, parallax goes all the way down to 15 yards. Also, we will offer multiple ACSS grid-type reticles which will be compatible with any caliber assuming you care enough to run your data through a ballistic app. These are ATHENA (MIL-based), RGrid-2B (MIL-based with horseshoe and chevron for quick target acquisition at low magnifications) and HERA (MOA-based). It is a large optic and will look goofy-huge on a 10-22. However, .22lr precision competitors have exacting requirements and "looks proportional" is generally not one of them. I'm also at 3/4" groups at 100 yards. My interests for this would be buying 2 of them. One for my 10/22 and 1 for my HMR in 308. That would be perfect for me. Both in the Athena. |
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How does the glass compare to the 4-14x44 ffp? i know this is a budget scope and for the price is not bad at all but it definitely wasn't for me. Does it have any edge distortion throughout the magnification range? |
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Here's Robski's take on it as mentioned above. Awesome, On Budget, 3-18x FFP Scope with ACSS from Primary Arms! |
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Do you know the estimated delivery of the FDE .308 HUD 3-18x50? Quoted:
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Was about to pre-order, but I now see there's a UPC for an FDE model. Are they WAY out in the future? The .308 DMR is excatly what I want for my 16" LR-308.... but FDE would be perfecter  |
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@PA_mike. Don’t take this wrong but you guys are bad for my wallet  I am sitting here trying to figure out what to sell to fund these scopes. If they are as good as they look on paper and reviews I think over the next while I will be swapping out most of my scopes for them. Power range is very nice for lots of my rifles (manly hunting and target shooting). Reticle options are way nice (got hooked on them using your 4-14 for hunting). Now i want one of these for my 308, .223, 17HMR, 22lr and my boys 22lr and pissibly a few more if they work out 
The price vs performance looks to be killer as usual. One question. How would you rate the glass in the production models vs other scopes in this price range (maybe the vortex 3-18, or some of the Burris or bushnell lines)? |
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OK so you guys know I've worked pretty hard to build up a rep here as an honest guy. I mean, I cheer for the home team and all, and I won't say anything that makes my company look bad, but I try to tell it like it is. So hopefully the rep for honest takes comes in handy here when I tell you that the 3-18x50 blows away the 4-14x44. Even my cell phone camera can show the difference just taking photos looking through the reticles. I think the 3-18x50 is one of the best optics to ever be produced in China, we have stretched the factory's capabilities with this product. They've never done reticles this complex before. They've never done locking turrets like these before. Etc. At SHOT Show this year, even indoors on a busy convention floor, people could tell the difference between the glass in the 4-14x44 and the 3-18x50. I'm hoping this scope really puts the fear into some competitors. I think other manufacturers are going to look at these and go, wow, how the heck can PA sell these things for just $499? We aren't going to discontinue 4-14x44 FFP, but I think it's going to become the budget option for guys who just cannot justify spending 5 bones on a scope no matter what. 4-14x44 FFP is great if $300 is your maximum budget or she'll REALLY file for divorce this time. But for $200 more the 3-18x50 is a clearly superior product. I think the FFP Raptor and the 3-18x50 have the best glass I've ever seen come out of China under any brand name. Ever. |
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@PA_Mike
Hey, we're here at the end of July. Any ETA update on the 6.5CM ACSS Apollo reticle release? I've got a 6.5 with a Vortex mil-dot that is just begging for a scope swap and this just made my buy list. Your 4-14 ACSS HUD DMR is my go-to scope on the 5.56 prairie dog popper. I've put at least 1,500rds through it in the last couple of years and it's still going strong. In fact, I was testing out some Fiocchi 40 grain v-max at the range last weekend and was making consistent hits on a 24" plate at 450 yards in a 5-12 variable crosswind. Those wind hold dots are a godsend. |
I should have waited. Needed to get the RPR back to plinking condition. Looking forward to the 3-18X50mm, later down the road. Thanks for all you do here! This customer appreciates it!
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OK so you guys know I've worked pretty hard to build up a rep here as an honest guy. I mean, I cheer for the home team and all, and I won't say anything that makes my company look bad, but I try to tell it like it is. So hopefully the rep for honest takes comes in handy here when I tell you that the 3-18x50 blows away the 4-14x44. Even my cell phone camera can show the difference just taking photos looking through the reticles. I think the 3-18x50 is one of the best optics to ever be produced in China, we have stretched the factory's capabilities with this product. They've never done reticles this complex before. They've never done locking turrets like these before. Etc. At SHOT Show this year, even indoors on a busy convention floor, people could tell the difference between the glass in the 4-14x44 and the 3-18x50. I'm hoping this scope really puts the fear into some competitors. I think other manufacturers are going to look at these and go, wow, how the heck can PA sell these things for just $499? We aren't going to discontinue 4-14x44 FFP, but I think it's going to become the budget option for guys who just cannot justify spending 5 bones on a scope no matter what. 4-14x44 FFP is great if $300 is your maximum budget or she'll REALLY file for divorce this time. But for $200 more the 3-18x50 is a clearly superior product. I think the FFP Raptor and the 3-18x50 have the best glass I've ever seen come out of China under any brand name. Ever. |
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I should have waited. Needed to get the RPR back to plinking condition. Looking forward to the 3-18X50mm, later down the road. Thanks for all you do here! This customer appreciates it! https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Firearms-1/i-VMCL4QR/0/c41a2e92/L/87DEB9E1-82CF-478E-B31B-732C1CFB7D28-L.jpg I'm going to check on the ETA for the 3-18x50s today and see if I can scrape up any new info. |
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It a .308 copy. I’ve had it since it’s release. Haven’t decided to make the jump to 6.5 Creedmoor or not. I like the .308 cartridge. And I’m not ever going to be shooting past 600 - 700 yards.
Quoted: What caliber is your RPR in? I'm going to check on the ETA for the 3-18x50s today and see if I can scrape up any new info. |
CountryMash got his hands on one of the HUD DMR .308s and posted a first look.
 NEW Primary Arms 3-18x50 FFP ACSS HUD DMR .308 Initial Impressions |
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This is my big boy Tank. He’s a large Boston Terrier, tipping the scale at 37 lbs. He is not happy with me because I didn’t wait for the 3-18X50mm .308 HUD. I tried like hell to explain to him my reasoning. He had no interest in hearing me out. He just gave me the look. Later in the day, I found him on the bed with the other new 4-14X .308 HUD. He just sat there daring me to make my move. I chose to retreat instead. At this point, I’m not too sure what to expect from him anymore. He is obsessed with the 3-18X. And doesn’t care that I blew out the piggy bank buying one 4-14X .308 HUD and two 4-14X 5.56 HUD. So this might just be my very last post anywhere. :) 
Quoted: What caliber is your RPR in? I'm going to check on the ETA for the 3-18x50s today and see if I can scrape up any new info. |