[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ETP EPP (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 9/6/2013 11:48:28 PM EDT
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Enhanced Take Down Pin, Enhanced Pivot Pin, now available from Rainier Arms here and our web store here
Prototypes (in the white), production units are parkerized. 
Production ETP and EPP, there still is one detail we have not revealed on the EPP ;) 
The ETP is even lower in profile than the factory pin. 
So far, the reviews have been very positive, better than we expected (and we had high expectations). Below are some of them: 1. One tester did not like the parkerized finish, and would prefer black oxide. We're looking into that. These pins, like our selectors, are combat weapon components, we characteristically do not pay heed to looks, but functionality. We do understand for some folks, esthetics are important, so there may be an option for different finishes. 2. One tester reported the EPP was very difficult to push in and pull out. One tester said he couldn't get the pins to pull out, even with a mallet. Given our experience with selectors and tolerance stacking, our assessment of both situations was correct, that there are variable at play: a. Spring length and quality b. Shape of the detent tip c. Receiver's pin detent / spring hole We found out that the first tester's detent spring is far longer than the ones we've seen. Cutting off couple of coils solved the issue. The second tester whose pivot pin seemed to be stuck, it was eventually removed, and when a different pin detent was installed, it's as smooth as it should be. As a result of the feedback, we are including 2 pin detents made by KNS, and two springs, with each retail pin set. In keeping with our practice of supplying mission critical parts in support of our products, these two variable are now mitigated. |
Photo courtesy of Alex 
The bullet guide on the left side of the pin. When using a bullet tip or tool to push in the pin (if required), the dimple prevents the tool or bullet tip from slipping and scratching the receiver, it's one of the small improvements of the pins. Not crucial for most users, but if they have an expensive AXTS or rare Magpul receiver, or a freshly professionally dipped or coated receiver, they should find this useful 
The dimple is large enough not only for a 5.56mm round, but also for a 7.62mm round, not all ARs shoot 5.56mm 
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So...ah...when can we expect these to be available? G/F is all set to get me 2 sets for my B-Day in early October, she's just waiting for me to tell her where and when they are available to purchase.
I told her she has to get them right away or they may sell out quickly, otherwise I will buy them myself. I think she is even going to buy a set for her AR....which you graciously provided me with a center since I had extra levers and I put a BAD-ASS selector in her AR. BTW...she absolutely loves it as do I. You really know how to make a great product. |
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Quoted:
Photo courtesy of Alex
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/df51a1cf-575d-42cb-b2cb-679de9cd8e45_zpscbcbb9fd.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/df51a1cf-575d-42cb-b2cb-679de9cd8e45_zpscbcbb9fd.jpg</a> The bullet guide on the left side of the pin. When using a bullet tip or tool to push in the pin (if required), the dimple prevents the tool or bullet tip from slipping and scratching the receiver, it's one of the small improvements of the pins. Not crucial for most users, but if they have an expensive AXTS or rare Magpul receiver, or a freshly professionally dipped or coated receiver, they should find this useful
The dimple is large enough not only for a 5.56mm round, but also for a 7.62mm round, not all ARs shoot 5.56mm Hey Rog....I like these new pins....excellent job! |
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Wow. I can't wait to see these on your website.
Since I got my first BAD selector, I have bought them for every AR I own/buy, and have used them as stocking stuffers for family members. I saw you post the link to this release in the thread where the guy was asking about his overly tight take down and pivot pins. Like I said in there, I have a pivot pin on a Spikes lower that is super tight with the DD upper I put on it. I went so far as to buy a new pivot pin, but to no avail. The pin is tight going through the holes in the lower on its own, but it gets even worse when an upper is involved. Now, this pin is still 100% functional. But it's tight nonetheless. I am definitely going to give these a shot. Even if they don't offer a solution, as long as they don't make it worse, those bad boys look awesome and they'll make a great addition. Because I'll likely forget, I'm going to set a reminder in my phone now so I can check back in a week to see an update with a link. ----- Looking good, BAD. |
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Damnit! I just bought Noveske take down pins for my new build. I guess I'll have to build another rifle.... 
Those look sweet though. Me too....I just today decided to give my Noveske pins to a couple of Noveske collector relatives as Christmas presents.... 
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Thanks guys
Among the mil and LE testers, we talk about how some folks perceive a tight fitting upper and lower as a mark of quality, to the point manufacturers would create matched uppers and lowers to cater to the demand. A tight fit is inconsequential and quite immaterial unless it's sloppy enough to rattle, even then I'm not convinced it has much accuracy impact. Our pins are designed to ease the operation (push in, pull out) without any side effect of impeding the operation of an ambidextrous selector's right lever. They are also designed with some tolerance built in for slightly out of spec lowers and uppers. It is our opinion, as well as folks involved in early development of the ETP and EPP, that since a tight fit between the upper and lower is not an objective, we can concentrate on their ease of operation. As with everything else we design, the pins are components of a combat small arm, the goals they aim to achieve are tied to meaningful efficiency and reliability that enhance a war fighter's weapon handling. If the weapon is so badly jammed it needs to be broken down more than the normal remedial action can cope with, a very tight fitting upper and lower that requires a bullet or punch to break open does not serve the user. We already anticipate there will be those that may complain their lower and upper are not as tight as before, the ETP and EPP do precisely what they were designed to do, excessive tightness is unquestionably NOT one of their jobs, by design. |
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Not sure about a bundle with our existing offerings, maybe with our selector, but they'll be bundled with our lower receivers (as an option), the receiver is about the only thing that's somewhat related, the ambidextrous selector, specifically its right lever, is something which the ETP must work nicely with
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Quoted:
Parkerized vs. matte black oxide finish
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/finishes_zps51653e2e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/finishes_zps51653e2e.jpg</a> Awesome sauce! Two quick questions: 1. Will these pins come with new detents and springs? 2. Can you give any indicator as to what the price point will be? |
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They will come with 2 detents and 2 springs.
The reasons are as follow: 1. The shape of the detent tip can have an effect on the operation of the pins 2. The length of the spring can have an effect too 3. Even experienced users sometimes forget to watch out for the spring loaded pivot pin detent, and launch the detent into space 
The two detents and springs alone will cost a few bucks plus shipping, if purchased separately. The detent is made by KNS (no cheap stuff for our customers). The price point is well below $30, you gents will like it 
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Quoted:
Parkerized vs. matte black oxide finish
<a href="http://s75.photobucket.com/user/Duffypoo/media/finishes_zps51653e2e.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i314/Duffypoo/finishes_zps51653e2e.jpg</a> These look fantastic.....and good call with the extra springs and detents...it really can't drive the price up THAT much, plus good detents make a world of difference. When these are available will they be parkerized or matte black oxide? Or will both be offered? |
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Quoted:
They will come with 2 detents and 2 springs. The reasons are as follow: 1. The shape of the detent tip can have an effect on the operation of the pins 2. The length of the spring can have an effect too 3. Even experienced users sometimes forget to watch out for the spring loaded pivot pin detent, and launch the detent into space
The two detents and springs alone will cost a few bucks plus shipping, if purchased separately. The detent is made by KNS (no cheap stuff for our customers). The price point is well below $30, you gents will like it That is music to my ears. I was hoping to hear all of those things. Thanks Duffy! |
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I never thought I would be so excited about such a small part.
But what you guys did with these pins, and (in my case) the perfect timing in which you released them, has me guaranteed to get a set. Every little thing I ever wished were tweaked with the TP and PP, you addressed here. I've seen the extended pins that are available now, and they all suck. First you've got the ones that added a huge knob onto the right side for you to grab. Sucks. Then you've got the ones that add a long nipple onto the left side for you to push further. Also sucks. Plus, just the looks of them makes me feel like they're cheap. I always said that I didn't need such a huge addition to either side of the pin, just a leeeittle bit more to the pin length in order for me to get that little extra push, and maybe some sort of knurling or something to the head. Not only did you do exactly that, you dramatically improved the method of installing the PP and made these pins ideal for those receiver sets that are a little tight......hence the perfect timing that I mentioned (new upper and lower that I bought an extra PP for, but they still are super tight). It's funny how MM warned that buying these will make you add them to all of your AR's. I did exactly that with your selectors. I have no doubt this will happen with these. I'll just need to get a first set to initiate that new buying list. I look forward to seeing these up on your site. |
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Thank you
The project started out as an improved take down pin, slightly longer on the shaft so when it's pushed in, there's more grasping length on the right, we wanted the mushroom head to stay almost as flush as the factory pin, but slightly thicker so we can add some serrations to it. Mission creep in this case has done a lot of good. We developed the pivot pins as well, it wasn't planned initially, but it makes sense, as the refined pivot pin would match the take down pin in capabilities. The project was conceived to make the take down pin easier to pull out, without creating an interference for the ambidextrous selector's right lever. The finished project, as it turned out, does that, and then some
Both pins' mushroom head are even thinner in profile than factory. ARs that were super tight and needed a bullet or punch to break open now can be broken down with ease. Just wait till you guys see the installation and actual use videos we've been asking testers to hold back on releasing to the public, the videos will start showing up very soon. The release date of the EPS (enhanced pins set) should be about 1.5 weeks to 2 weeks out
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Quoted:
Thank you
The project started out as an improved take down pin, slightly longer on the shaft so when it's pushed in, there's more grasping length on the right, we wanted the mushroom head to stay almost as flush as the factory pin, but slightly thicker so we can add some serrations to it. Mission creep in this case has done a lot of good. We developed the pivot pins as well, it wasn't planned initially, but it makes sense, as the refined pivot pin would match the take down pin in capabilities. The project was conceived to make the take down pin easier to pull out, without creating an interference for the ambidextrous selector's right lever. The finished project, as it turned out, does that, and then some
Both pins' mushroom head are even thinner in profile than factory. ARs that were super tight and needed a bullet or punch to break open now can be broken down with ease. Just wait till you guys see the installation and actual use videos we've been asking testers to hold back on releasing to the public, the videos will start showing up very soon. The release date of the EPS (enhanced pins set) should be about 1.5 weeks to 2 weeks out You tease..... and just when the funds are low to :( I had to buy a new car since mine died. Maybe i can get a set for X-mas this year. |
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Hehe, for those that have ever struggled with the pivot pins (that will probably be all of us), this will be the actually the funnest part.
For those that haven't felt the frustration, the need for a third hand, and seen their pivot pin detent launched into the carpet, never to be found again, the mag assisted install may not seem much. Call it a right of passage, one can appreciate the easy install far better if he knows how it's done without it
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Quoted:
Hehe, for those that have ever struggled with the pivot pins (that will probably be all of us), this will be the actually the funnest part. For those that haven't felt the frustration, the need for a third hand, and seen their pivot pin detent launched into the carpet, never to be found again, the mag assisted install may not seem much. Call it a right of passage, one can appreciate the easy install far better if he knows how it's done without it the first lower i build took me 5 hours i keep losing the darn detent pin
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We were in Battlefield Las Vegas testing our lower prototypes. It took me and a former Army armorer 5 minutes, and we still couldn't do it until he found the pivot pin installation tool.
When we were testing the prototype pins, the detent got launched into the dark gray carpet twice, so that was the point when we said "hey, what if...", and the rest is what you see today
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the first lower i build took me 5 hours i keep losing the darn detent pin Quoted:
Quoted:
Hehe, for those that have ever struggled with the pivot pins (that will probably be all of us), this will be the actually the funnest part. For those that haven't felt the frustration, the need for a third hand, and seen their pivot pin detent launched into the carpet, never to be found again, the mag assisted install may not seem much. Call it a right of passage, one can appreciate the easy install far better if he knows how it's done without it the first lower i build took me 5 hours i keep losing the darn detent pin I went to Walmart got those really big clear plastic bags and did my work inside them...detent launch no problem... Ever now and again my wife finds them here and there from years ago... but since I bagged the work no problems.. Hey Rog Where are you guys time wise on these take down pivot pins? Pretty soon? I need about four of them at least |
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Thanks Toolbox
BTW, the flat cut on the ETP is not for the finger nail to get into. The way it's supposed to be used is you push the pin in from the left side, and you pull the pin out from the right, if your fingers happen to pinch the flat, it's great. If not, there's always the knurling
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - ETP EPP (Page 1 of 3)
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