You're welcome.... ;-) (Page 2 of 3)
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It'll move at the speed of the legal system, but if this injunction holds for any length of time, I'm almost certain that they'll have to suspend enforcement for everyone because right now we have a two-tier legal situation for buyers and a legally contrived competitive advantage for certain retailers. I cannot imagine that will be allowed to stand any longer than it takes to get a case in front of a judge. I've said elsewhere I'm actually hoping a lawsuit demanding equal protection comes up somewhere well outside the district where the injunction is, because in my layman's estimation a judge would have no choice but to expand the injunction in order to provide relief since they wouldn't have jurisdiction to try and restore the prior status quo by overruling it. |
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Originally Posted By JThompson: Pardon my ignorance.  So if I am a plaintiff with regards to the ban on FRTs being unconstitutional and win, then only I can own a FRT in the state of Florida? The Court can only act with respect to those parties before it, except for certain circumstances. This is a result of Trump v. CASA. (Which was a good thing.) |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: It is a long convoluted scheme by me, to get you to fund my revolver habit.  In all seriousness, it is because GOA is a named plaintiff, thus, GOA members are covered. Even if it were - it was worth it. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Tobysi: I’m really curious if this will ever expand to everyone. Very likely. I am sure GOA, et al, are already working on the next steps using this case as a legal precident. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Cans were flying off the shelves at Shark Coastal in Sarasota, FL with just a 4473. https://i.imgur.com/qEE160e.png https://i.imgur.com/eKaRRLf.jpeg I applaud them heartily. I don't blame any dealer who waits for written guidance, though. All it takes is an IOI with a stick up his posterior to rain a whole lot of heartburn on an FFL. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By ParityError: Very likely. I am sure GOA, et al, are already working on the next steps using this case as a legal precident. Originally Posted By ParityError: Originally Posted By Tobysi: I'm really curious if this will ever expand to everyone. Very likely. I am sure GOA, et al, are already working on the next steps using this case as a legal precident. 
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Cans were flying off the shelves at Shark Coastal in Sarasota, FL with just a 4473. https://i.imgur.com/qEE160e.png https://i.imgur.com/eKaRRLf.jpeg I am heading there later this morning. |
If you think I am sexy now just wait until you find out I have full medical and dental.
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
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Originally Posted By rifleman1: I joined GOA and did not receive a membership card. All I got was a email showing I ordered a GOA membership. Will that suffice? Not sure if it will though. |
Now with more political fatigue.
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Originally Posted By rifleman1: I joined GOA and did not receive a membership card. All I got was a email showing I ordered a GOA membership. Will that suffice? Not sure if it will though. |
| I can't find my old GOA membership or card, but I bought a lifetime membership a couple of weeks ago on the 4-month payment plan. Do I have to wait for my last payment to complete before I'm officially a GOA life member and if so, is there an easy way I can just pay the balance now (like my cheap ass should have done to begin with)? |
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Originally Posted By SystemFailCoreDump: I can't find my old GOA membership or card, but I bought a lifetime membership a couple of weeks ago on the 4-month payment plan. Do I have to wait for my last payment to complete before I'm officially a GOA life member and if so, is there an easy way I can just pay the balance now (like my cheap ass should have done to begin with)? |
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Shark Coast was packed today. Barely enough room to walk around. One question, other than the screen immediately after paying for GOA membership where can I get proof? I never got an email and no place to login on their webpage. I ask this because Shark Coast wanted proof of GOA membership. |
If you think I am sexy now just wait until you find out I have full medical and dental.
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
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Originally Posted By GaryM: Shark Coast was packed today. Barely enough room to walk around. One question, other than the screen immediately after paying for GOA membership where can I get proof? I never got an email and no place to login on their webpage. I ask this because Shark Coast wanted proof of GOA membership. My email from GOA took from the sale on 8/8 to getting a member number today. |
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Originally Posted By GaryM: Shark Coast was packed today. Barely enough room to walk around. One question, other than the screen immediately after paying for GOA membership where can I get proof? I never got an email and no place to login on their webpage. I ask this because Shark Coast wanted proof of GOA membership. |
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...Okay, I swear I tried to look up whether that was Kyle Rittenhouse working there and it told me "no he works at some other store across the state" but I'm guessing that was actually him after all Question to try and confirm what AI told me - is there a substantive difference in the process for the local FFL between me buying a can online and doing a 4473/transfer at their store versus me buying directly from their store on a 4473? I was a little baffled ( ) the other day when my LGS (powered by Silencer Shop) seemed to indicate they couldn't sell me one of their cans on the shelf but I could go on the website, order one, and do the exact same paperwork that they have to keep in the exact same manner and that somehow frees them from the burden of waiting on ATF guidance.I look forward to hearing what abominably stupid quirk of federal tax law makes it so that's actually a thing 
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Originally Posted By osprey21: The short bus answer is YES. Originally Posted By osprey21: Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Please spell it out for the retard-- Well, I just signed up for 1yr. Time to drive everyone nuts now. Thank Luis for the new insanity. |
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Let me get with member services, and I'll get you an answer. Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: Originally Posted By SystemFailCoreDump: I can't find my old GOA membership or card, but I bought a lifetime membership a couple of weeks ago on the 4-month payment plan. Do I have to wait for my last payment to complete before I'm officially a GOA life member and if so, is there an easy way I can just pay the balance now (like my cheap ass should have done to begin with)?  Thank you sir!
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Originally Posted By Tobysi: So if you’re not a GOA member and buy through a silencer shop kiosk, is that kosher? Yup, but be aware that not every Silencer Shop dealer is doing transfers on just a 4473 yet. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By CZRider: ...Okay, I swear I tried to look up whether that was Kyle Rittenhouse working there and it told me "no he works at some other store across the state" but I'm guessing that was actually him after all Question to try and confirm what AI told me - is there a substantive difference in the process for the local FFL between me buying a can online and doing a 4473/transfer at their store versus me buying directly from their store on a 4473? I was a little baffled ( ) the other day when my LGS (powered by Silencer Shop) seemed to indicate they couldn't sell me one of their cans on the shelf but I could go on the website, order one, and do the exact same paperwork that they have to keep in the exact same manner and that somehow frees them from the burden of waiting on ATF guidance.I look forward to hearing what abominably stupid quirk of federal tax law makes it so that's actually a thing It's my understanding that silencers on a dealer's shelf were transferred there via a Form 3, and are in the NFA system. A dealer has to be able to transfer those items in the NFA system via a Form 3 or 4, just like they have to transfer firearms via a 4473. The silencers SS is sending to their dealers now are supposedly transferred to dealer, if requested, on a 4473, so the local dealer can then transfer them to you on a 4473 as well. |
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@Miami_JBT The following showed up in the 140-page GD thread and was being beaten about. How does it square with FL law? Are SS and Jensen plantiffs in FL allowed to skip the marking reqs and simply replace a pistol brace with a stock, making an SBR out of a "pistol"? I can see the argument both ways. A member of a plaintiff organization who wishes to make an SBR from a pistol is covered as to the enjoined making, registration, and possession provisions (§§ 5822, 5841, 5861(d), (f)) – no Form 1 is required. The NFA should still require the maker to engrave their information on the SBR, as required by 5842(a). The Jensen plaintiffs are relieved from the marking requirements in 5842(b) and the serial number penalties in 5861(i). Please be aware that a majority of states prohibit the possession of SBRs unless they are registered or in compliance with the NFA. |
| Here's where that came from, BTW: https://www.wiley.law/alert-NFA-Court-Ruling-Reshapes-Compliance-Following-Wileys-Successful-Constitutional-Challenge |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By flcroc: @Miami_JBT The following showed up in the 140-page GD thread and was being beaten about. How does it square with FL law? Are SS and Jensen plantiffs in FL allowed to skip the marking reqs and simply replace a pistol brace with a stock, making an SBR out of a "pistol"? I can see the argument both ways. A member of a plaintiff organization who wishes to make an SBR from a pistol is covered as to the enjoined making, registration, and possession provisions ( 5822, 5841, 5861(d), (f)) no Form 1 is required. The NFA should still require the maker to engrave their information on the SBR, as required by 5842(a). The Jensen plaintiffs are relieved from the marking requirements in 5842(b) and the serial number penalties in 5861(i). Please be aware that a majority of states prohibit the possession of SBRs unless they are registered or in compliance with the NFA.  Legal federally means legal on the state level. |
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice. https://i.imgur.com/oJeapYt.png Legal federally means legal on the state level. @Miami_JBT That's the section I was referring to, and understood. @ParityError That link you mention (and I think you brought it up in the GD thread) was what I was remembering. It's all so much more narrow than a lot of folks claim/believe/hope. |
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Originally Posted By flcroc: @Miami_JBT That's the section I was referring to, and understood. @ParityError That link you mention (and I think you brought it up in the GD thread) was what I was remembering. It's all so much more narrow than a lot of folks claim/believe/hope. |
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So, thus far I know Shark Coast in Sarasota is doing 4473 cans. That guy who was sticking up for the NFA in the big GD thread apparently went on to buy one on a 4473 from somewhere in Volusia but didn't say exactly who/where. Anyone else had any luck? I think I've got room in the risk budget for something like a YHM R9 as a do-all to keep my Skarv 22 company, then I'm on hold until we either secure our gains against the NFA or FATF comes knocking and I have to destroy them out of spite. I already resolved not to buy my way into their stupid registry, and they're not getting me on there with some unfortunate legal shenanigans either.
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Originally Posted By CZRider: So, thus far I know Shark Coast in Sarasota is doing 4473 cans. That guy who was sticking up for the NFA in the big GD thread apparently went on to buy one on a 4473 from somewhere in Volusia but didn't say exactly who/where. Anyone else had any luck? I think I've got room in the risk budget for something like a YHM R9 as a do-all to keep my Skarv 22 company, then I'm on hold until we either secure our gains against the NFA or FATF comes knocking and I have to destroy them out of spite. I already resolved not to buy my way into their stupid registry, and they're not getting me on there with some unfortunate legal shenanigans either.The only dealer I have seen that was *confirmed* to be transferring on a 4473 is Shark Coast. There was a rumor that Volusia Top Gun was also transferring on a 4473, but that is apparently not the case. It seems that ~1% of Florida FFL/SOT retailers are doing 4473 transfers, and 99% are not. |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
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Originally Posted By ParityError: The only dealer I have seen that was *confirmed* to be transferring on a 4473 is Shark Coast. There was a rumor that Volusia Top Gun was also transferring on a 4473, but that is apparently not the case. It seems that ~1% of Florida FFL/SOT retailers are doing 4473 transfers, and 99% are not. My buddy who's a SS dealer said he has interpreted the talk from SS so far as "we're working on it; do what you want but you have to own whatever call you make." He told me he'd sell me a can on a 4473 (I'm member of multiple plantiff orgs for Jensen and SS et al) because he knows I'll bring it back and/or file Form 4 if things go that way versus selling it in a Dollar General parking lot to some rando. |
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Valhalla Ordinance in St. Pete has posted that they are going to transfer cans to GOA members on a 4473. https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61570320374004 |
Avatar stolen from Ranger Up.
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
“ If you rat on the Parade of Hope, you'll be lucky to find your toenails. These guys are the roughest of all the charities.”
| Will from Shark Coast just had an epic rant on Facebook about other shops calling the FATF and snitching. And how the big players can sling thousands of cans a hour, while the private FFLs are scared. Worth a watch IMO. |
“Too much of anything is bad, but too much of good whiskey is barely enough.” - Mark Twain
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That sucks to hear, but honestly I'm not surprised . The places I checked out in Brandon yesterday were generally holding off although I believe 2nd Amendment Armory said they were going to start doing 4473 transfers soon. Funny enough, I mentioned Shark Coast in passing and he indicated they were a "big" dealer with a much bigger war chest for legal defense if it came to it, so I guess everyone thinks everyone else is the bigger fish. Good news about Valhalla though! I hate the idea of paying $400 for something called 'tuna can' but I might have to check them out and give it a try ETA: Had to track down a part earlier and it turns out Tampa Arms Corp is happy to do a 4473 sale. Nice guy, too - pulled what I needed from his gunsmith's inventory because they didn't have any others in the store to sell me. Definitely keeping them in mind once the tax free season kicks in! |
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I went by a new gun shop in New Smyrna Beach on SR44 called Volusia Gun Shop, yesterday. They said they have been calling ATF, the FL Attorney General, their Congress Critter, and State reps constantly looking for guidance and support. They really want to start going the 4473 route, but are afraid of losing their just opened business. I am pretty sure at least one of the staff members is an Arfcommer just by how he was talking. They have a great selection so I will definitely be stopping by there again. |
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I am hoping the AG will issue an opinion on this. He seems very pro 2A. So far nothing on the official website. https://www.myfloridalegal.com/ag-opinions |
| Fear No Evil Guns - Inglis - transferred me 2 on a 4473, no other questions. Said he's going with his gut on what is right. Bought from SS, shipped to dealer, walked out in 15 minutes after filling out the form. |
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -- P. J. O'Rourke
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Awesome! It's probably premature to say the dam is breaking but it seems like there are plenty of cracks forming. I'm still working on getting every gun owner I know beyond the "magic talisman in the nightstand" crowd to step up and chip in, so hopefully if we all work at it we can turn this situation into such an unfixable shitshow for the bureaucrats that they just throw up their hands and go find some other right to oppress
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I was in Mallard's Gun shop in Crystal River yesterday and they said they're "still doing it the old-fashioned way. You're just stirring a can of worms otherwise". I had money in pocket to buy a new can and I left with it still in my pocket. |
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