Posted: 11/26/2025 9:27:52 AM EDT
| A friend wants to maybe do something with church security and liability got brought up and so far liability concerns have put the idea on hold. What does the state say? Training suggestions if they go forward. They mentioned hiring a police officer but cost became a concern. |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
| I have been security for my church by request of the elders. I have never considered any liability issues. I have always just assumed that our church insurance, and doing the “right thing” would be sufficient….. I will be following this thread very closely and will also discuss with the elders about what our church insurance policy says about this issue! |
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Originally Posted By Emu: I have been security for my church by request of the elders. I have never considered any liability issues. I have always just assumed that our church insurance, and doing the “right thing” would be sufficient….. I will be following this thread very closely and will also discuss with the elders about what our church insurance policy says about this issue! Church is liable. You are liable. If you shoot/injure/kill someone while defending the church you both will be sued. |
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.-Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Originally Posted By whiskerz: A friend wants to maybe do something with church security and liability got brought up and so far liability concerns have put the idea on hold. What does the state say? Training suggestions if they go forward. They mentioned hiring a police officer but cost became a concern. Bottom line. Both liable. Have been on church Security for the last 7 years. We have 4 active/retired LEO on staff. They are allowed by the church to carry and would be covered under their liability insurance. The rest of us are on our own for liability. The church basically took a don't ask, don't tell policy with non-LEO staff and won't stand behind us if we shoot someone. I carry weekly while on duty or not for my personal/family protection. That's it, not to stop a mass casualty event. Hiring "professional" armed security has been discussed but is cost prohibitive. We have a deputy directing traffic every Sunday so that's also a deterrent for possible problems. |
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.-Roland Deschain, of Gilead
| Thanks , They asked their insurance and that caused pause because insurance wanted nothing to do with it. They found a training guy and he offered them an online class which I see as close to useless. |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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You're on your own. I don't go to church anymore (although I did carry when I did) but I have a $2M umbrella policy on myself for liability that costs me a few hundred dollars a year. I got that when I started doing organized shoots/Cola Warrior stuff. It's worth it. |
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Where is the liability in defending yourself and others under the law? How am I more liable for doing this at church than I am on the street? Looking for info here. And good tip on the churches connected to schools. Just checked one I know of locally, and the church and school share different parcels owned by the church. |
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Originally Posted By GTRider245: Where is the liability in defending yourself and others under the law? How am I more liable for doing this at church than I am on the street? Looking for info here. And good tip on the churches connected to schools. Just checked one I know of locally, and the church and school share different parcels owned by the church. Because churches are no carry zones unless you have specific permission from the church to do so. |
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.-Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Originally Posted By GTRider245: This is one of those situations that would end up differently depending on where you are and how liberal your local DA is. One way or the other, if you’re not LEO and shoot someone in self defense or otherwise on a church property, without permission to carry, you will never financially recover unless you carry a huge umbrella policy. Don’t care how liberal or not the DA is. |
First comes smiles, then lies. Last is gunfire.-Roland Deschain, of Gilead
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Originally Posted By RolandDeschain: Because churches are no carry zones unless you have specific permission from the church to do so. Originally Posted By RolandDeschain: Originally Posted By GTRider245: Where is the liability in defending yourself and others under the law? How am I more liable for doing this at church than I am on the street? Looking for info here. And good tip on the churches connected to schools. Just checked one I know of locally, and the church and school share different parcels owned by the church. Because churches are no carry zones unless you have specific permission from the church to do so. I asked the deacons board and the pastor at my church and was told they approve............multiple deacons also carry |
"The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction"
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Originally Posted By cyclone: I asked the deacons board and the pastor at my church and was told they approve............multiple deacons also carry Originally Posted By cyclone: Originally Posted By RolandDeschain: Originally Posted By GTRider245: Where is the liability in defending yourself and others under the law? How am I more liable for doing this at church than I am on the street? Looking for info here. And good tip on the churches connected to schools. Just checked one I know of locally, and the church and school share different parcels owned by the church. Because churches are no carry zones unless you have specific permission from the church to do so. I asked the deacons board and the pastor at my church and was told they approve............multiple deacons also carry I have been “security” at my church for about the last 5 years. This thread has opened my eyes to the perils of carrying at church. I have been carrying by verbal request of the elders all this time, but because special permission is required by the state to carry in a church, I have recently asked the elders to provide me with a signed, written confirmation, on church letterhead, that I have their permission to carry on church property. I have also suggested/requested that they keep a copy of the letter on file in the church records. I expect to receive this letter after the next elders meeting. The preacher is also in the process of contacting our church’s insurance company to see where they stand on this issue. And hopefully he can determine if the insurer has any special requirements for security personnel, in order for them to be covered under our church’s current insurance policy. Lastly, I intend to follow the excellent advice given previously in this thread about acquiring an umbrella policy rider. While I am no fan of insurance companies in general, just as soon as I am able to get insurance on my soon to be completed cabin, I will definitely be adding an umbrella policy to my coverage as additional protection against any possible future liability. |
| My pastor provided a typed letter stating specifically by name who can carry in the church. I would suggest you have the same done for all the members of your church team and update it as needed. Also, have those people be named in the minutes of your church's business meeting. |
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I just had an interesting conversation with my insurance agent. She told me that an umbrella policy will only cover me if I am on property that I own and have insured, or am in a vehicle that I have insurance on. Since I am not the owner, nor do I have an insurance policy on the church, an umbrella policy would not cover me if I were sued from any action that took place at the church. Only the church’s insurance policy would be valid. She also mentioned that since I have a private range on my property, the only way insurance would cover any incidents at the range, would be if I declared the range and had an additional policy for a private gun range. (When she called back she said that I would have to declare it as a COMMERCIAL range, and designate the acreage that it is on as a COMMERCIAL venture, and get a separate policy to cover a commercial range, which I am prohibited from operating due to the county zoning ordinances.) If any of you have insurance agents that have a differing opinion from the above, I’d sure like to know their name and number so that and I can verify the veracity of said opinion, and hopefully do business with them. If my agent is correct, (and she just called me back to confirm all of the above) then all of those umbrella policies are worthless unless you are on your personally insured property, or driving your personally insured vehicle. According to her: an umbrella policy ONLY raises the limits of liability on insurance policies that already cover you for whatever action you are being sued for. It will NOT cover anything that you are NOT already insured against! Sounds like typical insurance mumbo jumbo to me. Charge you a fortune, then actually cover little or nothing…. My shocked face! 🫤🤷♂️ Edited for “speeling” |
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Emu, I can't address the umbrella issue. I have firearms instructor insurance from ftaprotect.com. I can send them the name and addressnof any range where I am teaching, and they grant me a rider to cover the range while I am teaching there. I have been granted riders for ranges on private, non-commercial land. To my knowledge, they don't sell range insurance, but if you let instructors teach on your range, I suggest that you ask them for a certificate of insurance to cover your property. |
| Thanks for the updates . So like everything else in life you are on your own. It makes hiring an off duty cop for the church start to seem viable |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
| @emu She is assuming or misinterpreting that you are running the range for a profit. If it is not a business then there is no commercial policy needed. I would have to read your specific policy, but I can guarantee you that your agent has never read it. |
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Originally Posted By JLW: Emu, I can't address the umbrella issue. I have firearms instructor insurance from ftaprotect.com. I can send them the name and addressnof any range where I am teaching, and they grant me a rider to cover the range while I am teaching there. I have been granted riders for ranges on private, non-commercial land. To my knowledge, they don't sell range insurance, but if you let instructors teach on your range, I suggest that you ask them for a certificate of insurance to cover your property. Thank you for the advice. It is much appreciated! I have been approached by a couple of instructors over the years, but have never had an instructor to follow through and hold classes here. I would very much be interested in having one, or more, instructors come to the range, so that members of the GAHTF who are interested in providing security for their churches could get some training, and possibly some sort of certificate/certification to make them better equipped to fulfill their role as guardians, as well as offer them a tiny bit of insulation from the, unfortunately, predictable lawsuits and liability that would likely arise if they were ever required to defend their fellow congregants from evil doers. Or for that matter, any other sort of training that might be of interest to the members of this forum. After all, this range was created by, and is predominantly maintained by, the members here, expressly for their mutual benefit. I am only interested in providing a safe and enjoyable place for the HTF, and a few close friends, to exercise their 2A rights. I have always thought that offering classes at the range would help to further that goal. There cannot, nor will there ever be, any motivation for profit from this private range. To acquire any sort of “commercial range” insurance could conceivably jeopardize the current “private range” status, which in turn might eventually leave the range open to a zoning challenge, which could possibly force the closing of the range. One must tread carefully when traversing that minefield known as daily living!!!  It is a shame that life has become so complicated in this day and age…. 
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Originally Posted By 50ttop: She is assuming or misinterpreting that you are running the range for a profit. If it is not a business then there is no commercial policy needed. I would have to read your specific policy, but I can guarantee you that your agent has never read it. I have no current policy. I told her specifically that it was a private range for friends and family only. She said that there was no policy available for a private range, and that if I wanted coverage I would need to get a policy for a commercial range. If we have any insurance agents here in the HTF I would welcome the opportunity to discuss auto/homeowner/business & commercial building policies with them! 
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Originally Posted By Emu: Thank you for the advice. It is much appreciated! I have been approached by a couple of instructors over the years, but have never had an instructor to follow through and hold classes here. I would very much be interested in having one, or more, instructors come to the range, so that members of the GAHTF who are interested in providing security for their churches could get some training, and possibly some sort of certificate/certification to make them better equipped to fulfill their role as guardians, as well as offer them a tiny bit of insulation from the, unfortunately, predictable lawsuits and liability that would likely arise if they were ever required to defend their fellow congregants from evil doers. Or for that matter, any other sort of training that might be of interest to the members of this forum. After all, this range was created by, and is predominantly maintained by, the members here, expressly for their mutual benefit. I am only interested in providing a safe and enjoyable place for the HTF, and a few close friends, to exercise their 2A rights. I have always thought that offering classes at the range would help to further that goal. There cannot, nor will there ever be, any motivation for profit from this private range. To acquire any sort of "commercial range" insurance could conceivably jeopardize the current "private range" status, which in turn might eventually leave the range open to a zoning challenge, which could possibly force the closing of the range. One must tread carefully when traversing that minefield known as daily living!!! It is a shame that life has become so complicated in this day and age . Also, the repeal of 17-4-60 erased the power of citizen's arrest in GA. We have an odd legal situation in that, in certain circumstances, one would be legal to use deadly force but not to wrestle a person down and hold them for the cops to arrive. There may be people in GA who could provide legit house of worship security training, but I'm not familiar with them. I know the Pallisade Training Group folks in Texas, and I have heard great things about Strategos. Mike Miller of GST Firearms Training is in NE GA. He's a retired Marine and a GA cop. He provides some active shooter instruction. https://www.facebook.com/GSTFirearmsTraining/ |
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Originally Posted By JLW: I could provide firearms training and training on GA's laws on the use of force. As for security specifics, I've provided a metric ton of security for major events, but it has always been done with a badge, and zero of it has been for places of worship. I don't feel qualified to delve into the specifics of that topic. Also, the repeal of 17-4-60 erased the power of citizen's arrest in GA. We have an odd legal situation in that, in certain circumstances, one would be legal to use deadly force but not to wrestle a person down and hold them for the cops to arrive. There may be people in GA who could provide legit house of worship security training, but I'm not familiar with them. I know the Pallisade Training Group folks in Texas, and I have heard great things about Strategos. Mike Miller of GST Firearms Training is in NE GA. He's a retired Marine and a GA cop. He provides some active shooter instruction. https://www.facebook.com/GSTFirearmsTraining/ Our church’s insurance company has provided a name of someone who I believe specializes in church security. I am not familiar with him, nor do I know his qualifications, or even if he offers training. I suppose contacting him will be my next step, if for no other reason than the insurance company that will be liable in the event of any incidents has recommended that we contact him. I will definitely keep all of the above info that you have provided in mind! How crazy is it that a citizen is legal to use deadly force, but not legal to restrain/detain someone until law enforcement arrives. Leave it to our illustrious politicians to create such a screwed up situation as that! Thank you @JLW for your responses. You are certainly an outstanding asset to this forum! It is a terrible shame that we legitimately need to worry about defending our churches from evil people. But, that we also must worry about protecting ourselves from the judicial system, if it ever becomes necessary to protect our church and its parishioners, is truly disheartening! Knowing that Jesus is my ticket into heaven, the events of this world are beginning to make me look forward to judgement day, when I may finally bow my head and bend my knee before God, and leave all of this behind! |
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Originally Posted By Emu: I will definitely keep all of the above info that you have provided in mind! How crazy is it that a citizen is legal to use deadly force, but not legal to restrain/detain someone until law enforcement arrives. Leave it to our illustrious politicians to create such a screwed up situation as that! Thank you @JLW for your responses. You are certainly an outstanding asset to this forum! It is a terrible shame that we legitimately need to worry about defending our churches from evil people. But, that we also must worry about protecting ourselves from the judicial system, if it ever becomes necessary to protect our church and its parishioners, is truly disheartening! Prior to the three idiots in Brunswick, GA did have a citizen's arrest statute. GA overreacted to that incident. Some members of the legislature who voted to repeal 17-4-60 were/are woefully misinformed about GA's self-defense laws. Defending oneself and holding a person until the cops get there are two very different things. 17-4-80 was passed allowing stores and restaurants some power to detain, but if you catch someone burglarizing your house, you'd better let them go. |
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Originally Posted By JLW: Thank you for the kind words. Prior to the three idiots in Brunswick, GA did have a citizen's arrest statute. GA overreacted to that incident. Some members of the legislature who voted to repeal 17-4-60 were/are woefully misinformed about GA's self-defense laws. Defending oneself and holding a person until the cops get there are two very different things. 17-4-80 was passed allowing stores and restaurants some power to detain, but if you catch someone burglarizing your house, you'd better let them go. It's a shame because of the eventuality some of those situations will likely lead to... |
TEAM GIMMICK 2026
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Church security is very vague in the laws of Ga. as stated before the WCL does not apply in a volunteer security role. Private security in GA requires a person be trained and qualified per the Ga board of PI & security. If I remember correctly it is 24hours classroom and 16hrs for firearms training. This is for hiring out as a security guard under an agency license. No where in current law is it addressed as church security or volunteer security. with that being said you would be on Private property and not running a security business. I have trained several people in church security, here is my recommendation. Write out a security/emergency response plan for expected and unexpected situations. Include weather events, family conflict, evacuation, everything from a fall down the steps to active shooter. The ERP should include who has chief medical responsibility and security supervisor along with who is approved to carry. Form the security team and get documented training for security procedures totaling 24hrs. Get first aide CPR AED training. Training in use of force. and de-escalation training. Get firearms training for 16 hours from a POST or Private security instructor. make sure everyone authorized to carry on the security team can pass a post level shooting qualification. If you are concerned about the insurance just get the UA Law shield insurance because they pay your lawyer up front. It is not a reimbursement plan I have been instructing and training and carrying at church for 35 years. Never had to draw a firearm but I have had to use the first aide training in the real world |
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Originally Posted By Scottv: Church security is very vague in the laws of Ga. as stated before the WCL does not apply in a volunteer security role. Private security in GA requires a person be trained and qualified per the Ga board of PI & security. If I remember correctly it is 24hours classroom and 16hrs for firearms training. This is for hiring out as a security guard under an agency license. No where in current law is it addressed as church security or volunteer security. with that being said you would be on Private property and not running a security business. Originally Posted By Scottv: Church security is very vague in the laws of Ga. as stated before the WCL does not apply in a volunteer security role. Private security in GA requires a person be trained and qualified per the Ga board of PI & security. If I remember correctly it is 24hours classroom and 16hrs for firearms training. This is for hiring out as a security guard under an agency license. No where in current law is it addressed as church security or volunteer security. with that being said you would be on Private property and not running a security business. None of this would apply to church security unless the church started offering security as a service to other entities. Originally Posted By Scottv: I have trained several people in church security, here is my recommendation. Write out a security/emergency response plan for expected and unexpected situations. Include weather events, family conflict, evacuation, everything from a fall down the steps to active shooter. The ERP should include who has chief medical responsibility and security supervisor along with who is approved to carry. If you’re thinking about liability, I would be careful about doing this. If this is to stay an informal thing, you may only add potential liability by creating foundational documents that outline something like a policy. Were someone to do something outside of the emergency response plan, it could put them and the church in a worse position. It could also be a problem if the plan outlined something like response to an active shooter. That would serve as evidence that the church considered that as a possibility, put security in place, and didn’t not provide training to match what is outlined in the plan. Originally Posted By Scottv: Form the security team and get documented training for security procedures totaling 24hrs. Get first aide CPR AED training. Training in use of force. and de-escalation training. Get firearms training for 16 hours from a POST or Private security instructor. make sure everyone authorized to carry on the security team can pass a post level shooting qualification. If you are concerned about the insurance just get the UA Law shield insurance because they pay your lawyer up front. It is not a reimbursement plan I have been instructing and training and carrying at church for 35 years. Never had to draw a firearm but I have had to use the first aide training in the real world This pretty good advice. If you find an insurance firm that is willing to insure you and gives those requirements, then absolutely. But before setting up a training program, I would recommend benchmarking with other churches that have security teams and documenting what they tell you about their organizations. You (or someone within your church) should be documenting name of the church, who you spoke to, their role in the church, how many members/visitors at their church and whatever they are willing to tell you about their security groups. Then make it a point to exceed whatever those churches are doing. Sometimes, being in-line with like organizations (and a little ahead) is far better from a liability standpoint than trying to immolate totally different organizations like licensed private security. |
| Going to speak to my pastor and the deacons board about getting that letter authorizing me to carry....I was not aware of the need but I can see that I do need it as word of mouth apparently isn't enough |
"The villainy you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction"
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Excellent advice so far in this thread, especially Scottv and JLW. Carry in Church With respect to carry in churches, generally, it is illegal in Georgia. There is an exception, however, "unless the governing body or authority of the place of worship permits the carrying of weapons or long guns by persons who are lawful weapons carriers." Note it does not say the elders can give persons A, B, and C permission but not D, E, or F. They either permit the carrying of weapons or long guns (two different things in Georgia law), or they do not. The options are, it is illegal, or the governing body permits the carry of weapons or long guns. I have tried for years to get the legislature to change this, but I have sort of given up at this point. Anyway, it is a non-arrestable offense with a $100 fine if the church does not permit the carrying of weapons. Security Security is a regulated profession requiring licensing by the Secretary of State. Exceptions include off duty law enforcement and employees who are exclusively in house. This requires an employer-employee relationship. Arrests Georgians who are not in law enforcement cannot make an arrest. You cannot even detain a criminal for 90 seconds when you hear the sirens of responding police cars. This is a felony (false imprisonment) punishable by 10 years in prison, so just do not do it. Georgia is the only state in the nation with this insane law, which does not exist in California, Oregon, New Jersey, etc. Georgia went so far left on this issue that it is in a league of its own. How we handled this at my congregation is that there is a deacon over "security." He got the camera system up and running, wrote our policies and instructions and requested volunteers, all of whom underwent training on what is expected and Post firearms training. The training covered everything from first aid to tornadoes and protecting the children in the congregation. Somebody is always on duty during services. We have contacts with the others, who check in as they arrive, and an emergency room nurse (who has had a lot more to do than the security volunteers, as should be expected). We monitor the cameras and roam around looking for anything suspicious. When something suspicious is discovered, everybody else is alerted. When there are threats, such as specific threats on social media, or disturbing social media behavior, it is distributed, discussed, and photographs of the persons making the posting distributed so that the volunteers can keep an eye out. We are there to observe. If somebody is suspicious, one or two of the team will make friendly contact, introduce ourselves, make conversation. When the suspicion rises, we have called in law enforcement in the past. The volunteers are armed, but very discreetly. The weapons are only there for saving lives if absolutely necessary, but nobody is allowed to serve in this capacity unless they affirmatively state that they would be able to shoot if it became necessary to prevent somebody causing death or great bodily injury. So we are basically volunteers who commit to keeping an eye out, with a rotating schedule. We secure the collections (which is something somebody would have to do anyway). We call the police if needed. We do not generally protect property. We do not make arrests. We are just folks who keep an eye out and are willing to do what needs to be done in the extremely unlikely event that somebody came in looking to harm anybody worshipping with us. |
| Since there are no rules / laws yet specific to Church Security. You are acting on behalf or the property owner to provide a safety service. The laws do not change, from you providing the same service to your property. You get no extra authority because your on the security team just like you GFL gives you no authority. If the lawsuit comes, a CCW type insurance is the best you can hope for. No church or home policy will cover you. The letter from the church is good but is only good for you to carry on church property. The training I mentioned before is to protect you personally. Having a documented training & shooting qualification protects the church by showing they acted responsibly in setting up the security team. Since most of the incidents that happen in church are not gun related focus on de-escalation and first aide. Divorce issues and family conflict happen a lot in churches. Run drills an scenario based training on dealing with member conflict and family issues. Implement an active shooter training based on the ALICE program or at least the govt Run Hide Fight program. Do not over look the parking attendants and greeters. Stopping a problem in parking lot is much easier than after it comes inside. Be Polite Professionals |
| The church that asked me this, decided to leave it alone after having a discussion with their insurance company. I suggested a range day for interested members and it went nowhere. As for now they allow the members to carry concealed by ignoring it. Probably not the best plan. |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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Originally Posted By whiskerz: The church that asked me this, decided to leave it alone after having a discussion with their insurance company. I suggested a range day for interested members and it went nowhere. As for now they allow the members to carry concealed by ignoring it. Probably not the best plan. Unfortunately we are at the mercy of politicians on this most crucial of important church defense issues! The Elders of our church have now chosen to allow concealed carry on our church premises as a result of educating themselves on the current laws of the state of Georgia. However, they have also chosen not to make it public knowledge at this time. The security team and the Elders are only privy to this information, in an effort to curtail any negative ramifications of their decision. Fortunately, one of our security team is a retired detective. He invited the other two of us to join him when he went for his POST recertification. The gentleman who conducted the class was extremely pro-church security oriented, and graciously welcomed us non-LEO team members into the incredibly informative class, and range certification. While not officially “POST certified,” our 2 non-LEO team members can claim to be POST educated, by a POST certified instructor. Granted, it is not a “get out of jail free card.” But it at least shows that we are pro-active in our endeavor to be educated and trained, in the event that we are required to use deadly force in the defense of our congregation. It is unfortunate that our politicians are not more sensitive to this most critical issue concerning the defense of our religious institutions. While I am, without a doubt, not 100% shielded from the ramifications of having to use deadly force in the defense of our church, I do feel considerably more confident that my participation in the POST certification class will help to guide, and justify, my actions in the event of a confrontation. I am immensely grateful that there is a gentleman/instructor who is sensitive to this most critical issue!!! As a team, we have decided to have, at a minimum, quarterly range sessions at the Angry Emu Range, to help keep our shooting prowess at the highest level possible, in the event of a deadly force situation. If any other church security team is interested in using the range to improve their shooting abilities, I would be more than happy to have them utilize the range. |