Posted: 6/1/2026 12:41:21 PM EDT
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https://mdc.mo.gov/newsroom/mdc-proposes-permits-use-unstaffed-firearms-shooting-ranges JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. The Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC) offers free recreational firearms shooting on more than 35 unstaffed shooting ranges around the state. The ranges were designed decades ago primarily for hunters with most traditional use being in the spring and fall in preparation for various hunting seasons. According to MDC, range use has increased significantly in recent years with more home/self-defense firearms practice and increasing use of modern sporting rifles. Increased use has also resulted in increasing damage to shooting range signs, booths, and other infrastructure from some shooters, along with increasing litter from some shooters in the form of spent shells, targets, and other items not being collected and properly disposed of. To help reduce range damage and misuse, MDC is proposing requiring users of its unstaffed firearms shooting ranges to have a valid small game permit. Existing age and disability exemptions will remain. The proposed regulation changes would apply only to MDC owned unstaffed firearms shooting ranges, not partner ranges or MDC's five staffed shooting ranges. For residents, the allowable permit options start at $11.50 for an annual small game permit. For non-residents, daily small game permits are $16 and annual small game permits are $108.50. The Missouri Conservation Commission recently gave initial approval to the proposed MDC permit recommendation at its May 29 open meeting in Washington. MDC invites online public comment on the proposed regulation changes July 16 through Aug. 14 at mdc.mo.gov/contact-engage/public-commenting-opportunities. The Commission will then give final consideration to the proposed regulation changes at its Sept. 11 open meeting. If given final approval, the changes will become effective Feb. 28, 2027. WHY PERMITS ARE NEEDED "The illegal misuse of MDC unstaffed shooting ranges has resulted in significant increases in damage from some users intentionally targeting range signs, booths and other infrastructure, along with more litter such as spent rounds left on the ground," said MDC Hunter Education and Shooting Range Specialist Justin McGuire. McGuire added that the rising popularity of home/self-defense firearms practice and other high-volume recreational use has led to many more people using the ranges throughout the entire year and much more spent ammo being left as litter. McGuire explained that the permit requirement would have several benefits. "Unless exempt, Missouri hunters are required to have completed a certified hunter education program to get firearms hunting permits. Hunter education teaches shooting safety, ethics, and etiquette," he said. "Requiring a small game permit to use MDC unstaffed firearms shooting ranges would ensure that users have completed hunter education to help improve safety for themselves and other range users, visitors, neighbors, and MDC infrastructure. It also gives conservation agents another tool to improve public safety at MDC ranges." He added that requiring a permit will also help create an increased sense of ownership of the ranges, respect for the facilities, and compliance with posted rules for safer and more responsible range use. McGuire noted that many shooting range users won't be affected by the new permit requirement because they already purchase a small game hunting permit or they're exempt from needing one. "These challenges are not unique to Missouri," he said. "Among neighboring states, both Oklahoma and Kentucky have hunting-permit requirements for users of their unstaffed shooting ranges." MORE INFORMATION MDC offers multiple options for range users in need of hunter education. Learn more at mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/hunter-education. Small game permits can be purchased at permit vendors, on the MDC website, at MDC offices, and through the MDC Mo Hunting app. More at mdc.mo.gov/permits. Find more information on MDC shooting ranges at mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/activities/shooting. Share your thoughts with MDC starting July 16, 2026 https://mdc.mo.gov/contact-engage/public-commenting-opportunities |
Know Guns, Know Peace, Know Safety...No Guns, No Peace, No Safety
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I get their point and its a shame thry have to go this route, but idiots will be idiots. Will manned ranges the offenders will pop up, get their tocks off destroying stuff and be gone. Not saying we shouldn't have any rules or laws, but they are often harder (or more restrictive) on the law abiders, than on the offenders. |
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Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
NRA Endowment Life Member
Originally Posted By Boom_Stick:
""AKs are for villagers you have to tell not to shit in their water supply.""
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I haven't used a public range in about 2 decades, so the only impact it will have on me is the spending of my tax dollars. That said, the small game hunting permit seems oddly specific... I'm too lazy to try to research it, but I would bet that far more hunter ed certified (which I can see as being used as a range gate keeper) MO residents purchase (or get landowner) deer tags than small game. In my circle of friends/family/acquaintences, the small game/deer Venn diagram consists of a big circle for the deer, with a circle that is maybe 10% that size for the small game (that's pretty much completely inside the deer circle). ETA: I tried to do a little Googling, but couldn't find anything with a quick cursory search. |
"When you need it and ain't got it, you're singin' a different tune..."
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It doesn't say I can't FRT on some tannerite, and it doesn't say I'll get my permit yanked if I do, so I'm ok with it. If it keeps the urban yutes out of the range (which has been a debacle the last two times I went), I'm ok with it. I buy all the permits, even if I don't hunt those seasons, because it funds the MDC, and they use very little tax dollars, so I'm ok with it. If it reopens Pigeon Hill so my preferred range becomes less hoodratty, I'm ok with it. |
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MO, USA
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So the logic is that being there without a permit will be the line that suddenly everyone follows? At an unmanned range? Did Elmer write this one up? ETA: unless it comes with adding a code locked gate to each one I fail to see how this fixes anything |
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Originally Posted By M-231:It doesn't say I can't FRT on some tannerite, and it doesn't say I'll get my permit yanked if I do, so I'm ok with it. "Only paper targets attached to provided target holders may be used on unstaffed target shooting ranges, except that on portions of shooting ranges restricted to shotguns with shotshells, only clay targets may be used. Use of incendiary, including tracer ammunition, armor piercing, or explosive ammunition is prohibited. Fully automatic firearms are permitted only with a special use permit." https://www.law.cornell.edu/regulations/missouri/3-CSR-10-11-150 |
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MO, USA
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Pigeon Hill (St. Joseph) started down a dark road at least 30 years ago. Richard Bohanan (MO Conservation Agent) HATED any firearm that wasn’t walnut & blued steel. EVERYTIME we would take our REGISTERED Machine Guns to the range we would notify Buchanan County Comm Center that we would be firing automatic weapons at Pigeon Hill, Bohanan would show up and DEMAND our paperwork even though he had seen it numerous times before. It got so bad that a friend of mine made wallet sized laminated copies and only carried them! Bohanan stated “I’m getting automatic weapons BANNED on MODCC ranges! Well, then they changed the rules to where you had to get a permit, then they changed it to where you had to apply in person so many days in advance. Finally they BANNED Machine Guns ENTIRELY! So we were forced to purchase an abandoned Rock Quarry and turn it into a range where ANYTHING as long as it was LEGAL is O.K.! In hindsight it was a blessing in disguise. Those of you who have seen our range and Pigeon Hill know we have a much better Range! SCREW MISSOURI DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION!!!!!! |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive" _____________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS: Pigeon Hill (St. Joseph) started down a dark road at least 30 years ago. Richard Bohanan (MO Conservation Agent) HATED any firearm that wasn’t walnut & blued steel. EVERYTIME we would take our REGISTERED Machine Guns to the range we would notify Buchanan County Comm Center that we would be firing automatic weapons at Pigeon Hill, Bohanan would show up and DEMAND our paperwork even though he had seen it numerous times before. It got so bad that a friend of mine made wallet sized laminated copies and only carried them! Bohanan stated “I’m getting automatic weapons BANNED on MODCC ranges! Well, then they changed the rules to where you had to get a permit, then they changed it to where you had to apply in person so many days in advance. Finally they BANNED Machine Guns ENTIRELY! So we were forced to purchase an abandoned Rock Quarry and turn it into a range where ANYTHING as long as it was LEGAL is O.K.! In hindsight it was a blessing in disguise. Those of you who have seen our range and Pigeon Hill know we have a much better Range! SCREW MISSOURI DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION!!!!!! Yeah I was "Instructing" at a fam fire for the masses non gun folks at the Lake city MDC range and was told "we don't allow holsters" I was doing it on behalf of my employer... being an RO and so forth... Struck a raw nerve in me. |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By AFSOC: Yeah I was "Instructing" at a fam fire for the masses non gun folks at the Lake city MDC range and was told "we don't allow holsters" I was doing it on behalf of my employer... being an RO and so forth... Struck a raw nerve in me. I know a lot of the rules sound stupid-and they are for competent shooters, however the reason for the no holster rule is that someone at either Busch or Henges Range in the past (I can't remember which one) was drawing from the holster to shoot and shot a hole in the roof of the firing line cover. |
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Originally Posted By AFSOC:...at the Lake city MDC range and was told "we don't allow holsters" ... 
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Sounds like absolute BS. Didn't the Missouri Department of Conservation buy a $3.6 million dollar Black Hawk Helicopter in 2020??? Yes they did. https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2020/02/18/missouri-department-conservation-buys-helicopter-track-wildlife-wild-hogs-bears-elk-hunting/4799629002/ Maybe they should stop buying toys with our tax dollars!!! Maybe we need the Missouri House and Senate to take a deeper look into the MDC budget and expenditures when they cant manage unsupervised shooting ranges but can afford to buy military helicopters. Looking at this: https://mdc.mo.gov/magazines/missouri-conservationist/2024-01/annual-review-fiscal-year-2023 They had a $16 million surplus in 2023. |
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Seems like utter BS and the FUDD bias is strong. The ranges are paid for at least in part with an excise tax on firearms and ammo sales so they should be open to the public. If a tax or license was to be required it should be a shooting range specific one, tied to shooting range improvements. None of this hunting license BS. I think it might be time to press on the MO GOP to have the government change up MDC leadership. |
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I agree that this is a dumb idea. How will they actually enforce it? I go to the Wellsville Conservation area shooting range all of the time and I have never seen a conservation agent there in the last 20+ years. And another question. Since they state that you will need a small game hunting permit, what about those of us that are not required to have one? I am a disabled veteran and I am not required to have a small game hunting or fishing permit. Is the Conservation Department going to keep disabled veterans and those over 65 that are not required to have hunting permits from using public ranges or make us pay for a permit we do not need? |
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Originally Posted By chumpmiester:And another question. Since they state that you will need a small game hunting permit, what about those of us that are not required to have one? "Unless exempt, Missouri hunters are required to have completed a certified hunter education program to get firearms hunting permits." "McGuire noted that many shooting range users won't be affected by the new permit requirement because they already purchase a small game hunting permit or they're exempt from needing one." |
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I walked into Henges with multiple cases and an AR on a single point sling (muzzle down) with a chamber flag in it. I put it in the rack muzzle down. The guy at the window had a fit because I didn't carry it muzzle up and would have had to sweep the horizon to put it in the rack muzzle up. I said that's why I kept it muzzle down until I got to the line and could point it down range to bring the muzzle up I asked him what he wanted me to do to come back from the line and he said it had to be muzzle up. So I clipped the single point to the forward ring and walked back up there with the muzzle right under my chin. He about $hit himself and said I could carrying it muzzle down next time. |
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I think an Anti-Gunner Fudd came up with this idea. What this really does is make it difficult for new shooters to use these ranges. Born after January 1, 1967? Now you need to spend $40 to take Hunter Safety to use what is currently free. It's basically a tax and training requirement on the 2nd Amendment. Requiring a small game license is also BS. I generally only hunt Deer. Shouldn't proof of a recent Deer Tag also work for this requirement? Why should I have to buy a yearly small game license and add more money to the coffers of a bloated state run organization. That state sales tax has them swimming in $. |
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Sounds like a reason for a conservarion agent to ID anyone at a public gun range, since a permit is required. Also, I am tired of finding public range structures shot up, and I am sure they are too. They already shut down st joe. Nothing to stop them from shutting down more. |
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: I know a lot of the rules sound stupid-and they are for competent shooters, however the reason for the no holster rule is that someone at either Busch or Henges Range in the past (I can't remember which one) was drawing from the holster to shoot and shot a hole in the roof of the firing line cover. Oh yes the time honored tradition of punishing EVERYONE for one idiots actions... BRILLIANT... |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By delorean: I walked into Henges with multiple cases and an AR on a single point sling (muzzle down) with a chamber flag in it. I put it in the rack muzzle down. The guy at the window had a fit because I didn't carry it muzzle up and would have had to sweep the horizon to put it in the rack muzzle up. I said that's why I kept it muzzle down until I got to the line and could point it down range to bring the muzzle up I asked him what he wanted me to do to come back from the line and he said it had to be muzzle up. So I clipped the single point to the forward ring and walked back up there with the muzzle right under my chin. He about $hit himself and said I could carrying it muzzle down next time. Years ago I uncased a 10-50x50 non mounted optic and got yelled at over the PA by the idiot range NAZI, I held it up and showed him and never even got an apology for him being an idiot. |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: I hate to break it to you, but that is why 99% of laws are made. Break it to me? LOL!!! |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By AFSOC: Break it to me? LOL!!! Originally Posted By AFSOC: Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: I hate to break it to you, but that is why 99% of laws are made. Break it to me? LOL!!! The pompousness is funny, isn't it? They all seem to read the same playbook. |
"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Yes. Yes it does.
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Originally Posted By tree-hugger: The pompousness is funny, isn't it? They all seem to read the same playbook. I'm not pompous, I try to come on here and explain the reason for the rule (a rule that I had nothing to do with making) to try and shed some light on what seems like a silly rule. Then I am attacked and now called names. Very cool. I have personally engineered the building or renovation of more ranges in Missouri for Missouri tax payers than any of the people on this hometown page, yet I am the asshole apparently (and doing it for less money than I could get in the consulting world because I love it). I would also like to note, I have NOTHING to do with any policy or rules associated with the ranges, I just build them. |
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: I'm not pompous, I try to come on here and explain the reason for the rule (a rule that I had nothing to do with making) to try and shed some light on what seems like a silly rule. Then I am attacked and now called names. Very cool. I have personally built or renovated more ranges in Missouri for Missouri tax payers than most if not all of the people on this hometown page, yet I am the asshole apparently. Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: Originally Posted By tree-hugger: The pompousness is funny, isn't it? They all seem to read the same playbook. I'm not pompous, I try to come on here and explain the reason for the rule (a rule that I had nothing to do with making) to try and shed some light on what seems like a silly rule. Then I am attacked and now called names. Very cool. I have personally built or renovated more ranges in Missouri for Missouri tax payers than most if not all of the people on this hometown page, yet I am the asshole apparently. Let me point out what you're conveniently overlooking: Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: Originally Posted By AFSOC: Oh yes the time honored tradition of punishing EVERYONE for one idiots actions... BRILLIANT... I hate to break it to you, but that is why 99% of laws are made. Everything else you've gone on about is a diversion away from this. There. Now you know that we know the game. |
"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Yes. Yes it does.
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Originally Posted By tree-hugger: Let me point out what you're conveniently overlooking: Everything else you've gone on about is a diversion away from this. There. Now you know that we know the game. It was literally in response to punishing the majority for the stupidity of the minority. Most laws exist because of that-its just the way it is. The statement about the reason for laws was because of the aggressive response to my explanation of the rule. So yeh, whatever. We will just agree to disagree. |
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Originally Posted By elginrunner: poachers are the same type of people that destroy the ranges..... they won't buy the permits.... and tear it up anyway.... kinda like gun control laws... they only affect law abiding folks. And that is the main issue, requiring everyone to take hunter safety and purchase a small game license, will not stop range facilities from getting destroyed. |
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: It was literally in response to punishing the majority for the stupidity of the minority. Most laws exist because of that-its just the way it is. The statement about the reason for laws was because of the aggressive response to my explanation of the rule. So yeh, whatever. We will just agree to disagree. Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: Originally Posted By tree-hugger: Let me point out what you're conveniently overlooking: Everything else you've gone on about is a diversion away from this. There. Now you know that we know the game. It was literally in response to punishing the majority for the stupidity of the minority. Most laws exist because of that-its just the way it is. The statement about the reason for laws was because of the aggressive response to my explanation of the rule. So yeh, whatever. We will just agree to disagree. I appreciate the civil response, but can you at least acknowledge how condescending this statement is? "I hate to break it to you," As if we don't already know why laws are in place... |
"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Yes. Yes it does.
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Originally Posted By tree-hugger: I appreciate the civil response, but can you at least acknowledge how condescending this statement is? "I hate to break it to you," As if we don't already know why laws are in place... It was condescending. However when someone all caps me brilliant thereby implying that I am stupid, I feel that I can lose a bit of my social decorum. I was then called pompous and only responded with an explanation and exposition for understanding. I know that as a useless .gov employee (there are a lot) that what I say has less than zero value. I am not 100% sold on the idea of requiring small game permits. The reason for it is to thereby require people who legally use the range to have hunter safety education-because a lot of the people that act dangerously at ranges do so out of ignorance not out of a sense of malice or not giving a crap-they genuinely don't know any better. Should they? Sure they should, but no one taught them-they just get a gun and go to the range. In the years I have been exposed to crazy stuff I have come to the realization that a lot of that stuff happens from a point of incompetence not malice. That being said, sure there are a number of people out there that DGAF about any rules and will still do what they want when they want to. Everyone proposing this knows that, the hope is that it will stop a good chunk of it. In other nearby states that have ranges owned by that state's MDC counterpart they have had success in reducing the damage and illegal behavior at their ranges by requiring some sort of hunting permit. It won't stop everything by any stretch of the imagination, there will always be people that will just be garbage-I have literally heard at one of the old RK gun shows that was held at the Boone County Fair Grounds years ago one of the booth dealers tell a guy that just bought a High Point 9mm, "you can just go up the road to Rocky Forks to shoot it, there isn't anyone there to tell you what to do." That one particularly irked me because just a little over a year before it was said I had just completed the renovation of that range, I take pride in all the ranges, wetlands, boat ramps, fisheries, headquarters, learning centers, fishing docks, and even parking lots/roads that I have done and hate to see them come to harm. If I don't say anything when I overhear that I am a coward or I don't care, if I do then I am a Karen or a .gov employee trampling on freedom-I literally can't win. Like everywhere else MDC is full of folks that aren't perfect that are trying to make the ranges safer so that they do not have to close a bunch of them down (Pleasant Hope is an example of one that was shut down for safety, but we are about to break ground on the project to open up a bigger, better, and safer range). The main thing about the imperfect folks at MDC, they are there because they care about fish, forest, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and shooting not because they are making bank. Our foresters, policy folks, and biologists are constantly being targeted for jobs that are higher paying but they stay because they care. I have been approached numerous times by multiple consulting firms to jump ship and go to them for a significant pay raise-I stay because I care and I love the outdoors, hunting, fishing, hiking, and shooting. The engineering group folks are held to high standard, they don't just get to keep their job because they are a .gov employee. In my near 20 years there I have seen three engineers, two architects, three project managers, and 5 design techs fired for not doing their jobs-there is no free ticket in our division, our boss holds us and himself to a very high standard. We have rigid project due dates and are held to a 3% change order requirement on our projects. For those in the construction business you know that is a very tight change order-the average is anywhere from 8% to 15%. I bust my guts for this work that I love, so sometimes I can be a bit sensitive when I am rolled up with the typical .gov employee that is just there to play on their phone and collect a check and doesn't care about the public we serve. TLDR: yes it was condescending, but it was to a post that hurt my feels. |
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: It was condescending. However when someone all caps me brilliant thereby implying that I am stupid, I feel that I can lose a bit of my social decorum. I was then called pompous and only responded with an explanation and exposition for understanding. I know that as a useless .gov employee (there are a lot) that what I say has less than zero value. I am not 100% sold on the idea of requiring small game permits. The reason for it is to thereby require people who legally use the range to have hunter safety education-because a lot of the people that act dangerously at ranges do so out of ignorance not out of a sense of malice or not giving a crap-they genuinely don't know any better. Should they? Sure they should, but no one taught them-they just get a gun and go to the range. In the years I have been exposed to crazy stuff I have come to the realization that a lot of that stuff happens from a point of incompetence not malice. That being said, sure there are a number of people out there that DGAF about any rules and will still do what they want when they want to. Everyone proposing this knows that, the hope is that it will stop a good chunk of it. In other nearby states that have ranges owned by that state's MDC counterpart they have had success in reducing the damage and illegal behavior at their ranges. It won't stop anything by any stretch of the imagination, there will always be people that will just be garbage-I have literally heard at one of the old RK gun shows that was held at the Boone County Fair Grounds years ago one of the booth dealers tell a guy that just bought a High Point 9mm, "you can just go up the road to Rocky Forks to shoot it, there isn't anyone there to tell you what to do." That one particularly irked me because just a little over a year before it was said I had just completed the renovation of that range, I take pride in all the ranges, wetlands, boat ramps, fisheries, headquarters, learning centers, fishing docks, and even parking lots/roads that I have done and hate to see them come to harm. If I don't say anything when I overhear that I am a coward or I don't care, if I do then I am a Karen or a .gov employee trampling on freedom-I literally can't win. Like everywhere else MDC is full of folks that aren't perfect that are trying to make the ranges safer so that they do not have to close a bunch of them down (Pleasant Hope is an example of one that was shut down for safety, but we are about to break ground on the project to open up a bigger, better, and safer range). The main thing about the imperfect folks at MDC, they are there because they care about fish, forest, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and shooting not because they are making bank. Our foresters, policy folks, and biologists are constantly being targeted for jobs that are higher paying but they stay because they care. I have been approached numerous times by multiple consulting firms to jump ship and go to them for a significant pay raise-I stay because I care and I love the outdoors, hunting, fishing, hiking, and shooting. The engineering group folks are held to high standard, they don't just get to keep their job because they are a .gov employee. In my near 20 years there I have seen three engineers, two architects, three project managers, and 5 design techs fired for not doing their jobs-there is no free ticket in our division, our boss holds us and himself to a very high standard. We have rigid project due dates and are held to a 3% change order requirement on our projects. For those in the construction business you know that is a very tight change order-the average is anywhere from 8% to 15%. I bust my guts for this work that I love, so sometimes I can be a bit sensitive when I am rolled up with the typical .gov employee that is just there to play on their phone and collect a check and doesn't care about the public we serve. TLDR: yes it was condescending, but it was to a post that hurt my feels. Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: Originally Posted By tree-hugger: I appreciate the civil response, but can you at least acknowledge how condescending this statement is? "I hate to break it to you," As if we don't already know why laws are in place... It was condescending. However when someone all caps me brilliant thereby implying that I am stupid, I feel that I can lose a bit of my social decorum. I was then called pompous and only responded with an explanation and exposition for understanding. I know that as a useless .gov employee (there are a lot) that what I say has less than zero value. I am not 100% sold on the idea of requiring small game permits. The reason for it is to thereby require people who legally use the range to have hunter safety education-because a lot of the people that act dangerously at ranges do so out of ignorance not out of a sense of malice or not giving a crap-they genuinely don't know any better. Should they? Sure they should, but no one taught them-they just get a gun and go to the range. In the years I have been exposed to crazy stuff I have come to the realization that a lot of that stuff happens from a point of incompetence not malice. That being said, sure there are a number of people out there that DGAF about any rules and will still do what they want when they want to. Everyone proposing this knows that, the hope is that it will stop a good chunk of it. In other nearby states that have ranges owned by that state's MDC counterpart they have had success in reducing the damage and illegal behavior at their ranges. It won't stop anything by any stretch of the imagination, there will always be people that will just be garbage-I have literally heard at one of the old RK gun shows that was held at the Boone County Fair Grounds years ago one of the booth dealers tell a guy that just bought a High Point 9mm, "you can just go up the road to Rocky Forks to shoot it, there isn't anyone there to tell you what to do." That one particularly irked me because just a little over a year before it was said I had just completed the renovation of that range, I take pride in all the ranges, wetlands, boat ramps, fisheries, headquarters, learning centers, fishing docks, and even parking lots/roads that I have done and hate to see them come to harm. If I don't say anything when I overhear that I am a coward or I don't care, if I do then I am a Karen or a .gov employee trampling on freedom-I literally can't win. Like everywhere else MDC is full of folks that aren't perfect that are trying to make the ranges safer so that they do not have to close a bunch of them down (Pleasant Hope is an example of one that was shut down for safety, but we are about to break ground on the project to open up a bigger, better, and safer range). The main thing about the imperfect folks at MDC, they are there because they care about fish, forest, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and shooting not because they are making bank. Our foresters, policy folks, and biologists are constantly being targeted for jobs that are higher paying but they stay because they care. I have been approached numerous times by multiple consulting firms to jump ship and go to them for a significant pay raise-I stay because I care and I love the outdoors, hunting, fishing, hiking, and shooting. The engineering group folks are held to high standard, they don't just get to keep their job because they are a .gov employee. In my near 20 years there I have seen three engineers, two architects, three project managers, and 5 design techs fired for not doing their jobs-there is no free ticket in our division, our boss holds us and himself to a very high standard. We have rigid project due dates and are held to a 3% change order requirement on our projects. For those in the construction business you know that is a very tight change order-the average is anywhere from 8% to 15%. I bust my guts for this work that I love, so sometimes I can be a bit sensitive when I am rolled up with the typical .gov employee that is just there to play on their phone and collect a check and doesn't care about the public we serve. TLDR: yes it was condescending, but it was to a post that hurt my feels. That was a good read. Thank you. I'd like to think we're like-minded people here who want the same things for the most part. I don't know who I would be today if it wasn't for the Missouri outdoors. Of which, MDC conservation areas have played an extremely large role. Thanks for being a part of that. 
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"Some of the greatest dads I've ever seen weren't so much perfect as they were willing to work hard to overcome their failings. Does that make sense?"
Yes. Yes it does.
Yes. Yes it does.
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Originally Posted By tree-hugger: That was a good read. Thank you. I'd like to think we're like-minded people here who want the same things for the most part. I don't know who I would be today if it wasn't for the Missouri outdoors. Of which, MDC conservation areas have played an extremely large role. Thanks for being a part of that. 
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Originally Posted By drobs: And that is the main issue, requiring everyone to take hunter safety and purchase a small game license, will not stop range facilities from getting destroyed. Originally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By elginrunner: poachers are the same type of people that destroy the ranges..... they won't buy the permits.... and tear it up anyway.... kinda like gun control laws... they only affect law abiding folks. And that is the main issue, requiring everyone to take hunter safety and purchase a small game license, will not stop range facilities from getting destroyed. Indeed. Who’s going to check to see if someone has a license? I’ve never seen an MDC employee at one of their ranges. This feels like more of a scheme to sell more licenses than improve range safety. |
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I've seen agents at the lines more that once. One memorable time was when guys were shooting at a .22 target on the ground at Pigeon Hill, it about halfway out to the berm. The agent showed up and started writing tickets because the bullets were skipping off the ground and heading up out of the range, and hitting that house that was up by the main road. I suspect that was the main reason for shutting down Pigeon Hill, but I don't see why they had to lock up the trap range too. |
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I've learned lately that MDC is saying they are out of money, and are eliminating 100+ positions.... most are having to reapply for positions that they already hold.... MDC has completely lost it's mind..... It's almost like some california politicians are now running it. |
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Originally Posted By elginrunner: I've learned lately that MDC is saying they are out of money, and are eliminating 100+ positions.... most are having to reapply for positions that they already hold.... MDC has completely lost it's mind..... It's almost like some california politicians are now running it. How the hell does the MDC go broke? It’s the best funded conservation department in the country. ETA - and yeah, their lead ship has sucked for the past 20 years. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: I think an Anti-Gunner Fudd came up with this idea. What this really does is make it difficult for new shooters to use these ranges. Born after January 1, 1967? Now you need to spend $40 to take Hunter Safety to use what is currently free. It's basically a tax and training requirement on the 2nd Amendment. Requiring a small game license is also BS. I generally only hunt Deer. Shouldn't proof of a recent Deer Tag also work for this requirement? Why should I have to buy a yearly small game license and add more money to the coffers of a bloated state run organization. That state sales tax has them swimming in $. very well said ! to me it sounds just like more money , they can take a dozer and do a strip plain ole strip with some berms,, doesn't have to be fancy just a place for the public can shoot and in some cases Blast away . anymore you are going to be Taxed , Fined or Cash Permitted with anything to do with the state . |
All Gave Some / Some Gave All
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
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A lot of their money is spent on stuff that's not related to hunting or shooting. Sometimes we just look at the parts we each use, but hunting/fishing/shooting is only part of what they do. It looks like about 60% is spent on their other programs, staff, etc. https://mdc.mo.gov/sites/default/files/2025-02/Final%20FY25%20Internal%20Expenditure%20Plan.pdf |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Indeed. Who’s going to check to see if someone has a license? I’ve never seen an MDC employee at one of their ranges. This feels like more of a scheme to sell more licenses than improve range safety. Oh , they will roll through, checking, im sure of it. |
| So I would have to pay for a permit that is tied to hunting, even though I don’t give a fuck about hunting, just to use public land that is obviously not public after all? And my tax dollars that fund them will continue to fund them even though I won’t be able to shoot on their property anymore without a permit? Because more people are using modern sporting rifles, aka scary black assault rifles and also trashing the place, but a permit will make it all better? Just a few weeks ago I was at the range with no one else there when I got a visit for the 1st time ever. I had my target stand up and was shooting my cardboard backed paper target. Minding my own business. Here comes a conservation officer. Never in my life have I been bothered by one. He proceeds to tell me how I am being unsafe using my target stand with two wood furrings hold cardboard up. It is directly in line with the rubber back stop. Paper is attached to it. He tells me that he could write me tickets for shooting cardboard instead of paper. But since I’m the only one there he was going to let it slide. Then he lectures me on how too many people are trashing the ranges all over and they are getting tired of having to clean it up and repair stuff. His whole conversation was trying to threaten me with tickets if I were to trash the range up. At no point was I rude or anything. I was very friendly. He eventually left. The whole interaction really rubbed me the wrong way. I ended up packing up and leaving. I was in the wrong for using a target stand instead of using the rubber backing. I take a target stand because the rubber backing is always destroyed and you can’t even hang stuff half the time. But to be out there trying to enjoy a lunch break with my gun and to then be treated like a actual criminal by some dipshit that obviously has nothing better to do is not enjoyable at all. If you think a permit is going to keep the idiots out, you are wrong. But I’m sure this is going to go into effect and I will just have to figure some else out because I will not spend a dime on conservation moving forward. I’ll go back to indoor ranges before I do that |
...believe in me, I'm with the High Command.
Joined:
May 2006
Posts:
16834
EE: 100% (35)
MO, USA
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At Pigeon Hill one of the problems were the Fudds! You’re firing and minding your business and a lane or two over is an IDIOT muzzle sweeping everyone! I can’t count the times it happened to me, some IDIOT would not pay attention to where his firearm was pointed or would even fire a round while you are down range changing targets. |
"When trading bullets it is better to give than to receive" _____________________
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - George Orwell
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Originally Posted By thorshammerblow: It was condescending. However when someone all caps me brilliant thereby implying that I am stupid, I feel that I can lose a bit of my social decorum. I was then called pompous and only responded with an explanation and exposition for understanding. I know that as a useless .gov employee (there are a lot) that what I say has less than zero value. I am not 100% sold on the idea of requiring small game permits. The reason for it is to thereby require people who legally use the range to have hunter safety education-because a lot of the people that act dangerously at ranges do so out of ignorance not out of a sense of malice or not giving a crap-they genuinely don't know any better. Should they? Sure they should, but no one taught them-they just get a gun and go to the range. In the years I have been exposed to crazy stuff I have come to the realization that a lot of that stuff happens from a point of incompetence not malice. That being said, sure there are a number of people out there that DGAF about any rules and will still do what they want when they want to. Everyone proposing this knows that, the hope is that it will stop a good chunk of it. In other nearby states that have ranges owned by that state's MDC counterpart they have had success in reducing the damage and illegal behavior at their ranges by requiring some sort of hunting permit. It won't stop everything by any stretch of the imagination, there will always be people that will just be garbage-I have literally heard at one of the old RK gun shows that was held at the Boone County Fair Grounds years ago one of the booth dealers tell a guy that just bought a High Point 9mm, "you can just go up the road to Rocky Forks to shoot it, there isn't anyone there to tell you what to do." That one particularly irked me because just a little over a year before it was said I had just completed the renovation of that range, I take pride in all the ranges, wetlands, boat ramps, fisheries, headquarters, learning centers, fishing docks, and even parking lots/roads that I have done and hate to see them come to harm. If I don't say anything when I overhear that I am a coward or I don't care, if I do then I am a Karen or a .gov employee trampling on freedom-I literally can't win. Like everywhere else MDC is full of folks that aren't perfect that are trying to make the ranges safer so that they do not have to close a bunch of them down (Pleasant Hope is an example of one that was shut down for safety, but we are about to break ground on the project to open up a bigger, better, and safer range). The main thing about the imperfect folks at MDC, they are there because they care about fish, forest, wildlife, hunting, fishing, and shooting not because they are making bank. Our foresters, policy folks, and biologists are constantly being targeted for jobs that are higher paying but they stay because they care. I have been approached numerous times by multiple consulting firms to jump ship and go to them for a significant pay raise-I stay because I care and I love the outdoors, hunting, fishing, hiking, and shooting. The engineering group folks are held to high standard, they don't just get to keep their job because they are a .gov employee. In my near 20 years there I have seen three engineers, two architects, three project managers, and 5 design techs fired for not doing their jobs-there is no free ticket in our division, our boss holds us and himself to a very high standard. We have rigid project due dates and are held to a 3% change order requirement on our projects. For those in the construction business you know that is a very tight change order-the average is anywhere from 8% to 15%. I bust my guts for this work that I love, so sometimes I can be a bit sensitive when I am rolled up with the typical .gov employee that is just there to play on their phone and collect a check and doesn't care about the public we serve. TLDR: yes it was condescending, but it was to a post that hurt my feels. Someone else hurt you and talked bad about you in response to your childish wannabe cop response to my post... that I ignored up until NOW, believe me I would NEVER refer to you as Brilliant... |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS: At Pigeon Hill one of the problems were the Fudds! You’re firing and minding your business and a lane or two over is an IDIOT muzzle sweeping everyone! I can’t count the times it happened to me, some IDIOT would not pay attention to where his firearm was pointed or would even fire a round while you are down range changing targets. Had a guy and his son show up at the 100y next to me, I was down range setting up targets and I hear the guy's kid start shooting a 22 ..... |
"The development of the flamethrower proves that at one time, someone, somewhere thought to themself: There are people over there that I want to set on fire, but they are too far away. George Carlin
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Going back to this link: https://mdc.mo.gov/contact-engage/public-commenting-opportunities When you click on this:  It goes to a dead page.  So basically they don't want comments from the public. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Going back to this link: https://mdc.mo.gov/contact-engage/public-commenting-opportunities When you click on this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/MDC_JPG-3779944.jpg It goes to a dead page. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/MDC_2_JPG-3779945.jpg So basically they don't want comments from the public. |
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