Posted: 7/4/2022 5:18:22 PM EDT
| How do we end MA's requirements to get a license to carry to possess a firearm, especially for out of states folks? Who is leading the legal charge in MA and is ready now that Bruen is released? In other words, where do I donate? |
Tanker Toad and Drone Jockey
On the ground:
Iraq: 2004, 2008, 2021
Afghanistan: 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
Horn of Africa: 2012-2013
On the ground:
Iraq: 2004, 2008, 2021
Afghanistan: 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
Horn of Africa: 2012-2013
|
You won’t end the licensing requirement unless the Supreme Court says to. But in the Bruen case they stated that licensing requirements are legal as long as they are not too burdensome (which isn’t really defined). Depending on what state your in you could talk with a local gun rights organization and lawyers and have them petition to get reciprocity with MA. Don’t expect MA to agree to it in any way but if they deny it then it may help pave the way to a lawsuit where your rights end at some imaginary state line. You could apply for a non-resident LTC and they will give you one as long as you’re not a prohibited person. With this new SC ruling it should not have any restrictions. Unfortunately it’s a game and I’m not familiar with how it would work out legally. If you get a non-resident LTC then the state of MA wins and says “see, you got what you wanted and without denying you the license you were not harmed and therefor have no case”. Or you could carry illegally without a LTC and if/when busted they say “you made a bad choice when we would have issued you a LTC” and now have no case since you knowingly broke the law. Or you could sue for the burden of having to pay $100 every year and have to appear in Chelsea, MA for your first application and every 6 years after. Again, I’m not a lawyer and not sure how it would play out but I’d love to see reciprocity among every state. |
|
Originally Posted By steve8140: You won’t end the live swing requirement unless the Supreme Court says to. But in the Bruen case they stated that licensing requirements are legal as long as they are not too burdensome (which isn’t really defined). Depending on what state your in you could talk with a local gun rights organization and lawyers and have them petition to get reciprocity with MA. Don’t expect MA to agree to it in any way but if they deny it then it may help pave the way to a lawsuit where your rights end at some imaginary state line. You could apply for a non-resident LTC and they will give you one as long as you’re not a prohibited person. With this new SC ruling it should not have any restrictions. Unfortunately it’s a game and I’m not familiar with how it would work out legally. If you get a non-resident LTC then the state of MA wins and says “see, you got what you wanted and without denying you the license you were not harmed and therefor have no case”. Or you could carry illegally without a LTC and if/when busted they say “you made a bad choice when we would have issued you a LTC” and now have no case since you knowingly broke the law. Or you could sue for the burden of having to pay $100 every year and have to appear in Chelsea, MA for your first application and every 6 years after. Again, I’m not a lawyer and not sure how it would play out but I’d love to see reciprocity among every state. As of right now, even if the executive branch wanted to, Massachusetts would have no lawful authority to sign such an agreement OR to recognize any license other than one issued by the Commonwealth. The only way that is going to happen is via legislative change. (Hint: That legislative change is probably not going to happen.) I do currently hold a non-resident LTC. I currently have a custom restriction. On my next renewal, I fully intend to apply for ALP (i.e. restrictions: none). If (after that application) I am issued a restricted license, I will likely seek judicial intervention. [The only reason why I am not trying to get the restriction changed now is because my understanding is that FRB will not process restriction change requests on existing NR licenses - they make you wait until renewal.] |
|
Ok, it looks like Gun Owners Action League is making some traction. MA Gun Rights Group Demands Maura Healey Retract Firearms Guidance A Bay State gun rights advocate is calling out Attorney General Maura Healey’s firearm licensing guidance in the wake of a recent Supreme Court decision on guns. Jim Wallace, writing on behalf of the Gun Owners Action League, is urging Gov. Charlie Baker to step in and block the AG’s move. “We are aware of the joint ‘guidance’ released by the Massachusetts Office of the Attorney General and the Executive Office of Public Safety and Security,” Wallace wrote. “We are officially demanding that the so-called ‘guidance’ be retracted and revised as it does not reflect the decision handed down by the Court!” Wallace is referring to guidance issued by Healey’s office and the EOPSS on July 1 in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision in New York State Rifle and Pistol Association v. Bruen. ... Wallace is asking Baker to void all restrictions currently placed on any lawfully licensed gun owner, clarify where firearms may be carried, to explain the attorney general’s guidance that license applicants may still be asked why they need a license, and to void any extra application hurdles instituted by the various police chiefs. I don't think it goes far enough. Any licensing scheme that requires a fee-based permit, local approvals, registration and any sort of delays should be null and void. |
Tanker Toad and Drone Jockey
On the ground:
Iraq: 2004, 2008, 2021
Afghanistan: 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
Horn of Africa: 2012-2013
On the ground:
Iraq: 2004, 2008, 2021
Afghanistan: 2006, 2008, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020
Horn of Africa: 2012-2013
|
Originally Posted By steve8140: Or you could sue for the burden of having to pay $100 every year and have to appear in Chelsea, MA for your first application and every 6 years after. Is that first appearance in Chelsea still a requirement? I'm in CT and it's about time I actually go apply for a MA non-resident permit. I'll just have to figure out how long it takes before they schedule an appointment since I have vacation coming up. |
|
Originally Posted By LenS: Make sure that you have a Mass State Police training certificate to send them or your application will be rejected. I have my NRA Basic Pistol Course certificate from a CT instructor. It says that that's on the approved list, but I'm not sure if I need to do a MA version. I also have my CT pistol permit. https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-basic-firearms-safety-course-list-0/download |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: I have my NRA Basic Pistol Course certificate from a CT instructor. It says that that's on the approved list, but I'm not sure if I need to do a MA version. I also have my CT pistol permit. https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-basic-firearms-safety-course-list-0/download I can tell you that the NRA certificate will not be accepted. It must be a Mass State Police certificate. I'm a MSP certified instructor and understand the system. The class must be taught by one of us and the proper cert handed out for inclusion with your application. |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By LenS: I can tell you that the NRA certificate will not be accepted. It must be a Mass State Police certificate. I'm a MSP certified instructor and understand the system. The class must be taught by one of us and the proper cert handed out for inclusion with your application. What a pain in the ass. I guess I'll have to find a MA course that's in the Springfield area so I don't have to drive an hour and sit through a day of repetition. |
|
There are MSP certified instructors in CT, so you might check out this list that MSP illegally posted on the web. State privacy laws prohibit publishing lists of those who own guns/are licensed/etc. but MSP doesn't care about the law. So use the info to your advantage. https://www.mass.gov/lists/firearms-safety-instructors-certification-basic-firearms-safety-leosa |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: I have my NRA Basic Pistol Course certificate from a CT instructor. It says that that's on the approved list, but I'm not sure if I need to do a MA version. I also have my CT pistol permit. https://www.mass.gov/doc/approved-basic-firearms-safety-course-list-0/download You need the BFS certificate issued by a MASS instructor for the training to be acceptable. The MASS certificate is the one you will send (a copy of) with your LTC application. |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: What a pain in the ass. I guess I'll have to find a MA course that's in the Springfield area so I don't have to drive an hour and sit through a day of repetition. There are some instructors in Connecticut!   (e.g. I am a Connecticut resident, NRA Pistol Instructor, and am also certified as an MA BFS Instructor). |
|
Originally Posted By LenS: There are MSP certified instructors in CT, so you might check out this list that MSP illegally posted on the web. State privacy laws prohibit publishing lists of those who own guns/are licensed/etc. but MSP doesn't care about the law. So use the info to your advantage. https://www.mass.gov/lists/firearms-safety-instructors-certification-basic-firearms-safety-leosa When I got my instructor cert, they included a waiver that we could sign and return to have our information publicly disclosed- though I forget if I ever signed/returned that form because I don't advertise. |
|
Originally Posted By JAD: When I got my instructor cert, they included a waiver that we could sign and return to have our information publicly disclosed- though I forget if I ever signed/returned that form because I don't advertise. MSP violated MGL C. 66 S. 10B, the privacy law, by releasing the list of ALL BFS and LEOSA instructors. But they don't care about following the law. I left 2 VMs for the MSP administrator when I found that list and she never returned my calls nor did she remove that info. Now I get a dozen or so spam messages to my business Email every day thanks to the MSP. I never got that garbage before this. |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By HenryBowmanToo: @Len - I seem to recall the "option" to have your name listed as well - which I did not (and am not listed). Although dated 9.01.22, see see some info that is pretty dated and obsolete on this. They finally caught on and stopped posting the complete list. It's back to the opt-in list now. However, what they did violated state law MGL C. 66 S.10B and just like you can't "unrob" a business, you can't undo the violation. That said, the AG will defend her minions and would never prosecute Kristen for doing what she did. I'm sure that you are in the lists that were posted back in May thru June (and maybe others, I didn't check each month). My info still lists me in MA, not NH, so yes, their info is old and semi-useless. |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
I attended a "Basic Firearms Safety Certificate" course in MA. My next step is filling out the application to get an unrestricted LTC since I want to be able to carry and also travel to ranges, etc. I checked off "Unrestricted" under Reason(s) for requesting the issuance of a card or license. Is there a specific reason I should put down if I want to be able to carry? I don't know if MA is still giving out various different kinds of permits. |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: I attended a "Basic Firearms Safety Certificate" course in MA. My next step is filling out the application to get an unrestricted LTC since I want to be able to carry and also travel to ranges, etc. I checked off "Unrestricted" under Reason(s) for requesting the issuance of a card or license. Is there a specific reason I should put down if I want to be able to carry? I don't know if MA is still giving out various different kinds of permits. Under the Bruen decision everything will be unrestricted. A lot of towns are reissuing LTC’s for residents to say the same. I sent in my renewal about two months ago for myself and my wife. Granted we both already had unrestricted non resident LTC’s but we wrote “for all lawful purposes” on each. If they don’t like it I don’t really care. They cannot restrict or decline you unless you have a legal reason to. |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: Anyone know the time frame for how long it takes for the state to set up an appointment for the in person Chelsea interview? I sent my renewal in on 23NOV2022 by certified mail. It was received before the end on November. I still have yet to get an appointment. I called during the last week of December. They confirmed receiving it and said that it would be a few more weeks. |
|
Originally Posted By JAD: I sent my renewal in on 23NOV2022 by certified mail. It was received before the end on November. I still have yet to get an appointment. I called during the last week of December. They confirmed receiving it and said that it would be a few more weeks. I thought you didn't need to interview for a renewal, just the first application? |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: My interview is scheduled for end of May. So about 6 months from when I sent in the application. Not sure exactly what the interview will involve, but I guess I find out. Likely just prints and picture . . . perhaps a few words about the legal difference between storage and transportation (MA law is weird and illogical about this). |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By LenS: Just a guess, since the USSC resulted in a change of policy. ALL MA LTCs are ONLY issued without restrictions. Likely just prints and picture . . . perhaps a few words about the legal difference between storage and transportation (MA law is weird and illogical about this). In the past, the "interview" was prints, picture, and reviewing the information on the application form, including why the license was being sought. There was also usually a little bit of small talk as well, totally unrelated to the application or license. They never discussed anything about any aspect of Massachusetts firearms or use of force law. |
|
Originally Posted By JAD: In the past, the "interview" was prints, picture, and reviewing the information on the application form, including why the license was being sought. There was also usually a little bit of small talk as well, totally unrelated to the application or license. They never discussed anything about any aspect of Massachusetts firearms or use of force law. |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Went to Chelsea today for the interview. A few questions about why I was getting the permit, if I had a permit in another state, a few questions on if I got into any legal trouble since the application, prints and picture. They said it would be 6-8 weeks before they sent the license in the mail since they would be doing background checks. That was confusing to me since I thought all that was already done and I would get the license then and there. So now I guess I just wait. |
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: Went to Chelsea today for the interview. A few questions about why I was getting the permit, if I had a permit in another state, a few questions on if I got into any legal trouble since the application, prints and picture. They said it would be 6-8 weeks before they sent the license in the mail since they would be doing background checks. That was confusing to me since I thought all that was already done and I would get the license then and there. So now I guess I just wait. They run the background checks after the interview. In the past, when I have asked about it, the acknowledged that they have the results of the criminal history check very quickly. Some of the other response times add to the wait. For example, on my initial it took moths for them to get a response back from DMH because DMH was (allegedly) non-responsive to their first several requests. |
|
Originally Posted By LenS: I can tell you that the NRA certificate will not be accepted. It must be a Mass State Police certificate. I'm a MSP certified instructor and understand the system. The class must be taught by one of us and the proper cert handed out for inclusion with your application. Is there an online list of course locations and times somewhere? A couple family members in MA have expressed interest in getting their LTCs. I told them they need to complete a certain course before applying but I don't know where they can take them. North Central MA area. They're beginners. Thanks. |
Call sign: Smack
|
Originally Posted By eric496: Is there an online list of course locations and times somewhere? A couple family members in MA have expressed interest in getting their LTCs. I told them they need to complete a certain course before applying but I don't know where they can take them. North Central MA area. They're beginners. Thanks. https://goal.org/NRA-Instructor-Listing or Download the list of instructors who requested that their info be published from the state's website here: https://www.mass.gov/lists/firearms-safety-instructors-certification-basic-firearms-safety-leosa |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: Going on 4 months since my interview... https://patch.com/img/cdn/users/148732/2013/09/raw/e201f3f5e9f80ec9d098e1eb7c43d177.png |
MA Gun Law Seminar
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
NRA Firearms Instructor
Moved to NH!
|
Originally Posted By Toker_: Going on 4 months since my interview... https://patch.com/img/cdn/users/148732/2013/09/raw/e201f3f5e9f80ec9d098e1eb7c43d177.png Contact them via phone. My interview was in June. I called after 3 months, expressed concern about timelines, and it was processed in a couple of days after that. |