Posted: 7/3/2025 2:32:35 PM EDT
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I cannot state strongly enough how much I oppose any such proposition. To even prepare a legislative Bill for secession seems treasonous to me. If parts of California want to break away from the State of California as it is currently constituted, that is one thing and is very different than seceding from the United States. Link to article |
| Regardless of the merits or lack thereof, secession is not treason. Nothing in the Constitution prohibits it, either. I don't believe it could have been ratified had it been understood that way. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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Go and look up some of the more colloquial meanings for "treasonous" rather than the strictly legal or strictly constitutional meanings. In that way, you might better understand my meaning. That these same people might be influenced by and receiving funding from other nations is a fact. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Go and look up some of the more colloquial meanings for "treasonous" rather than the strictly legal or strictly constitutional meanings. In that way, you might better understand my meaning. That these same people might be influenced by and receiving funding from other nations is a fact. Given that the Constitution limits the definition of treason, the colloquial version is of limited relevance. This is also a union of sovereign states, which further mitigates relevance of sucj definitions. |
The finest opportunity ever given to the world was thrown away because the passion for equality made vain the hope for freedom.
-Lord Acton
-Lord Acton
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I had to look up this one. Sucj - It is often used as an insult or derogatory term towards someone who is perceived as weak or inferior. The term is believed to have originated from the combination of two words, "suck" and "jerk". Well, sling your insults at Webster, Merriam-Webster and Wikipedia. I do not plan any litigation. When I do, I'll let you know. In th emean time, I think conversational definitions and usage are relevant. I also think insults reflect poorly on those who use them. Are you in favor of California leaving the Union? |
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CA, USA
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I have lived in many different states, and this place really has some crazy undeserved pride in itself. The best thing the state has going for it is the weather and the fact that the nature conservancy movement was gaining traction before it was fully settled, enabling it to have a lot of parkland. Most of which is owned and operated federally. Otherwise, it has some of the worst wealth inequality, substance abuse, homelessness, taxes, and a high cost of living. Great social services if you're broke, but if you're middle class, you're paying a ton in state and local taxes while struggling to afford some of the most expensive real estate in the country. The reality is that local government here is run like shit, and if the state were completely self-governing, it would potentially be a nightmare. CA is a dreamer state with its head in the clouds, and that can have its advantages, but it also leads to shit like the city of LA pumping billions of dollars into the homeless services with absolutely no oversight and no measurable differences being made. Sure, the state has a massive GDP, but it can also blow through money like sailors on shore leave. |
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Originally Posted By TrazoBone: I have lived in many different states, and this place really has some crazy undeserved pride in itself. The best thing the state has going for it is the weather and the fact that the nature conservancy movement was gaining traction before it was fully settled, enabling it to have a lot of parkland. Most of which is owned and operated federally. Otherwise, it has some of the worst wealth inequality, substance abuse, homelessness, taxes, and a high cost of living. Great social services if you're broke, but if you're middle class, you're paying a ton in state and local taxes while struggling to afford some of the most expensive real estate in the country. The reality is that local government here is run like shit, and if the state were completely self-governing, it would potentially be a nightmare. CA is a dreamer state with its head in the clouds, and that can have its advantages, but it also leads to shit like the city of LA pumping billions of dollars into the homeless services with absolutely no oversight and no measurable differences being made. Sure, the state has a massive GDP, but it can also blow through money like sailors on shore leave. Sounds about right but you understate some unfortunate realities and miss others, both bad and good. An example of the good, this place has a LOT of jobs. It has jobs and careers that will allow you to afford a home and the high cost of living. |
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CA, USA
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: Sounds about right but you understate some unfortunate realities and miss others, both bad and good. An example of the good, this place has a LOT of jobs. It has jobs and careers that will allow you to afford a home and the high cost of living. I'll agree that the pay here is good, but it is disproportionate to the cost of real estate. For example, while I earn roughly 30-40% more out here than I would in other places I have lived for the same job, the cost of housing is more than double. While earning less in PA, 10 years of post-tax income would be the equivalent of a nice house in a decent neighborhood, still close to jobs and city services. Out here, 10 years of post-tax income will buy me a fixer-upper in a neighborhood where there is visible crime and concerns about homelessness, or a decent house out in the middle of nowhere, very far from jobs and services. The sad reality is that the middle class who want to own a home in the LA area will need to either choose between a tiny house in the hood or a decent house, which will require them to commute 2.5-3 hours a day. My wife and I are taking advantage of the higher pay by using it to more quickly pay off debts like student loans and max out retirement accounts, but for home ownership, we are probably going to bail unless there is a local housing market crash sometime soon. We could maybe tough out the higher cost of real estate, if the cities actually took crime seriously, but we don't feel like shelling out half our take-home pay on a mortgage, HOA, taxes, and costs of repairs, just to live somewhere cars and mailboxes get broken into regularly. |
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It is more than a little interesting to me that you might leave. I have a thread on this Forum wherein I have been cataloguing articles about the EXODUS from California. It is a true exodus - it is unprecedented in US history to lose so many people from one State. "According to the U.S. Census Bureau, an astonishing 8.5 million people have moved out of California since 2010." Most were hard working, tax payers. Replacements are the only reason the population hasn't noticeably and seriously declined. A lot of the new arrivals, the replacements, are here illegally. |
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CA, USA
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: It is more than a little interesting to me that you might leave. I have a thread on this Forum wherein I have been cataloguing articles about the EXODUS from California. It is a true exodus - it is unprecedented in US history to lose so many people from one State. "According to the U.S. Census Bureau, an astonishing 8.5 million people have moved out of California since 2010." Most were hard working, tax payers. Replacements are the only reason the population hasn't noticeably and seriously declined. A lot of the new arrivals, the replacements, are here illegally. My wife and I are in a different circumstance than most as we both move around. CA is my 5th state and my wife's 3rd. We came out a bit before COVID hit due to family who relocated out here as well as a curiosity to try it out. Out of everywhere I've been, this place is not the best, but I could stay. My wife, on the other hand, no longer cares for it and wants out. So we are just replacements who will probably end up leaving. In my 6 years here, though, I have seen several native Californians whom I've worked with leave. It has been a mixture of real estate prices, taxes (if you WFH and move somewhere with no income tax, you essentially are giving yourself a 10% raise), crime/homelessness, and the political climate. |