Posted: 4/22/2026 12:31:19 AM EDT
| Which pistol could be considered the last of the Wondernines? That era of big frames, hooked trigger guards, fat grips, DA/SA...which one ended the era? |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: Which pistol could be considered the last of the Wondernines? That era of big frames, hooked trigger guards, fat grips, DA/SA...which one ended the era? I thought we were still in the era of the WonderNine. 17 round plastic fantastics you can print at home. The CZ-75, SIG P22X, and Beretta 92 were the last metal framed service pistols platforms to come to market and see widespread adoption. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: I thought we were still in the era of the WonderNine. 17 round plastic fantastics you can print at home. The CZ-75, SIG P22X, and Beretta 92 were the last metal framed service pistols platforms to come to market and see widespread adoption. Wasn't the CZ made CZ75 late to the US market due to Cold War era import restrictions? |
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I think the HK USP. -It was the last major DA/SA platform before Glock (and later striker fired in general) took over. -Its design was the ultimate culmination of westernization and its development began as the Berlin Wall came down. This pistol was made with picking sides in mind. -It was the last new double action pistol in the era of double action law enforcement guns and it was the most forward thinking. -While the name is universal self loading pistol, it’s now well known HK internally referred to it as the “United States pistol”. -Overbuilt for a future world of war that never came to fruition. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: Which pistol could be considered the last of the Wondernines? That era of big frames, hooked trigger guards, fat grips, DA/SA...which one ended the era? It was transitional though (like the USP as OdieGreen points out). Sort of a bridge between the old DA/SA Wondernines and the modern polymer framed striker fired Glock clone era. 
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: When was the last DA/SA hicap handgun you saw come to market? Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher:I thought we were still in the era of the WonderNine. When was the last DA/SA hicap handgun you saw come to market? Few years back when Taurus released their latest one. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher:Few years back when Taurus released their latest one. I'm not up on Taurus guns. They do have some oddballs in the market. Springfield Armory too. They may indeed have had the last of the DA/SA full size/Compact hicap guns in line with what a classic Wondernine was. I see Taurus still has a candidate (interestingly chambered in 9mm, 40S&W, 10mm and 45ACP, just like the good old days). But I don't know when it was released and if it's a clone of something else or not. https://www.taurususa.com/product/pistols/taurus-th/taurus-r-th-matte-black-od-green-9mm-luger-full-size-17-rds/ So to paraphrase Mark Twain, rumors of the Wondernine's demise have been greatly exagerated |
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Originally Posted By turbolarry:  Wait... What? It ended? My Beretta 92 and I are going to go cuddle together in the corner. That's a good point. The SW Model 5906 may be out of production, but the M9A4, CZ-75 (75B through P09 Nocturne), P22X series, are all still in production. Springfield even released a DA/SA gun (the XD-E) in the late 2010's. |
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Originally Posted By NN300BLK: That's a good point. The SW Model 5906 may be out of production, but the M9A4, CZ-75 (75B through P09 Nocturne), P22X series, are all still in production. Springfield even released a DA/SA gun (the XD-E) in the late 2010's. |
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I know Beretta had the Storm, which I think was a DA/SA and a rotating barrel, but I could be wrong. But I’d say the end of the Wondernine may have been the Walther P99. It was striker fired, but still DA/SA. So it kind of represents the last throws of DA/SA relenting to the striker fired polymer frame generation. |
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams: OP sounds like he’s asking about S&W Gen 2s or Gen 3s. No?  Not really, unless you think they were the end of the era? I think one could separate them, from the Wondernine, the steel or alloy frames DA/SA pistols, to the Wundernines, the poly framed stroker fired...I was thinking of the guns that ruled the 80s. Just got curious what people thought after I got my Star 30M and took a step back into the era of Miami Vice and Magnum PI. |
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In the 80’s in the midwest Illinois State Police issued S&W 439 then switched to 3rd generation 5904/6904. Indiana State Police switched from revolvers to Beretta 92’s then to Beretta 96. Kentucky State Police Carried S&W 1006. Missouri Highway Patrol carried revolvers till they transitioned to Glock 22 in the early 90’s IIRC. Ohio Highway patrol transitioned from revolvers to semi autos in the late 80’s to Sig Sauer P series. Wisconsin State Patrol transitioned from revolvers to Ruger P85/89 in the 80’s. Iowa Highway Patrol transitioned from revolvers to Beretta 92 in the late 80’s to early 90’s. Michigan State Police transition from revolvers to Sig Sauer P226 in the early 90’s. New Jersey was the only State Agency I remember who issued H&K with the P7M8. New York went from revolvers in the late 80’s to Glock 17’s. Florida Highway Patrol adopted the Beretta 92 in the mid 80’s. I believe Tennessee transitioned to Glock in the late 80’s to early 90’s. Pennsylvania State Police Transitioned the the Beretta 96 in the early 90’s. The transition from revolvers to semi autos in municipal and county Law Enforcement happened in the mid 80’s to 90’s. The trends were the same with S&W 2nd & 3rd Generation, Beretta 92/96, Sig Sauer P226/P229. I remember Elgin Illinois PD officers carried 1911’s 45’s cocked and locked just like the Sheriff’s Dept. in my county in the 80’s. In my opinion the big four in semi autos in the late 80’s to early 90’s were Beretta, Sig Sauer, S&W and Glock. The Double Action only variants were common in Beretta, Sig and S&W. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: What exactly is a wondernine? Does it have to have a metal frame? Does it need to have a hammer or be DA/SA? I think doublestack 9mm is a given. Originally Posted By AK-12: What exactly is a wondernine? Does it have to have a metal frame? Does it need to have a hammer or be DA/SA? I think doublestack 9mm is a given. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Nine A Wonder Nine is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum with a staggered column magazine and a double-action trigger for at least the first shot.[1] The term was coined by firearms author Robert Shimek, and became popular in American firearm-related magazines during the 1980s and 1990s by those advocating their use by police forces.[1] At the time most American police departments were still using revolvers, with the majority chambered in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum.[2] Some other reading: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/content/the-rise-of-the-wonder-nine/ https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/the-wonderful-world-of-wonder-9s/ |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: I don't think frame material was a consideration when the term was coined. Polymer frames weren't a thing yet, or at least not widely used yet (maybe H&K had some but they just made quirky oddball guns at that time). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Nine The reason I brought it up is that some responses stated or implied they had to be hammer fired or metal framed. I'm hesitant to count the DA/SA Taurus striker guns because...well...Taurus, so I'd say the PX4 since it came out after the 3rd gen Smiths and P99, and appears to have outlived them too. The "Big 3" remain the P220, CZ-75, and Beretta 92 families. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: The reason I brought it up is that some responses stated or implied they had to be hammer fired or metal framed. I'm hesitant to count the DA/SA Taurus striker guns because...well...Taurus, so I'd say the PX4 since it came out after the 3rd gen Smiths and P99, and appears to have outlived them too. The "Big 3" remain the P220, CZ-75, and Beretta 92 families. In my mind it has to be hammer fired, but polymer frames are OK. So the PX4 and CZ P07 count. Other folks strictly define metal frames. My reasoning is Glocks are generally not considered Wondernines (and some folks argue they are double action since they cock the striker before firing) so neither would any of the striker guns that came after it. Plus Glock changed the direction of handgun design towards a completely different direction than the WonderNines were going. But guns like the P99 are oddball hybrids that defy getting put in boxes. Maybe the PX4 and P07 (and USP) are also just oddball hybrids. We could probably argue about it for a long time until everyone gave up and went off to different threads. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: The reason I brought it up is that some responses stated or implied they had to be hammer fired or metal framed. I'm hesitant to count the DA/SA Taurus striker guns because...well...Taurus, so I'd say the PX4 since it came out after the 3rd gen Smiths and P99, and appears to have outlived them too. The "Big 3" remain the P220, CZ-75, and Beretta 92 families. Originally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By dmk0210: I don't think frame material was a consideration when the term was coined. Polymer frames weren't a thing yet, or at least not widely used yet (maybe H&K had some but they just made quirky oddball guns at that time). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Nine The reason I brought it up is that some responses stated or implied they had to be hammer fired or metal framed. I'm hesitant to count the DA/SA Taurus striker guns because...well...Taurus, so I'd say the PX4 since it came out after the 3rd gen Smiths and P99, and appears to have outlived them too. The "Big 3" remain the P220, CZ-75, and Beretta 92 families. Gen 2 & up Tauri work fine. It was their own Gen 1 striker in the PT111 & other guns that SIGged before SIG did - and harder than even SIG has done. |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: Can't remember the last time I saw one that wasn't my dad's 24/7 Originally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By backbencher: Gen 2 & up Tauri work fine. It was their own Gen 1 striker in the PT111 & other guns that SIGged before SIG did - and harder than even SIG has done. Can't remember the last time I saw one that wasn't my dad's 24/7 Sell a lot of the Gen 3s. Has he checked his SN for the recall? If it's on the list he gets a brand new gun outta the deal. |
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Originally Posted By dalle0001: Aren't Glock 17s/19s considered the wonder 9 era of handguns? I think they will continue to be relevant until they make something that doesn't fire bullets. The Glocks and subsequent highcap striker guns that followed them are actually the Wondernine killers. Wondernines have died off as the striker guns expanded their reign on the market. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: No. It's generally accepted that Wondernines are hammer fired DA/SA (or maybe even including DAO versions of those guns that proliferated for a short time in the 90's and early '00s). The Glocks and subsequent highcap striker guns that followed them are actually the Wondernine killers. Wondernines have died off as the striker guns expanded their reign on the market. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By dalle0001: Aren't Glock 17s/19s considered the wonder 9 era of handguns? I think they will continue to be relevant until they make something that doesn't fire bullets. The Glocks and subsequent highcap striker guns that followed them are actually the Wondernine killers. Wondernines have died off as the striker guns expanded their reign on the market. This is how I look at it too. I tend to classify everything pre-Glock as a wondernine (and latter attempts in the same vein like the Arex Rex). Glocks took over the service market overwhelmingly during the 90s. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: No. It's generally accepted that Wondernines are hammer fired DA/SA (or maybe even including DAO versions of those guns that proliferated for a short time in the 90's and early '00s). The Glocks and subsequent highcap striker guns that followed them are actually the Wondernine killers. Wondernines have died off as the striker guns expanded their reign on the market. Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By dalle0001: Aren't Glock 17s/19s considered the wonder 9 era of handguns? I think they will continue to be relevant until they make something that doesn't fire bullets. No. It's generally accepted that Wondernines are hammer fired DA/SA (or maybe even including DAO versions of those guns that proliferated for a short time in the 90's and early '00s). The Glocks and subsequent highcap striker guns that followed them are actually the Wondernine killers. Wondernines have died off as the striker guns expanded their reign on the market. Lol, about as generally accepted as the idea that the M16A2 isn't retro. It's a made up gun culture term and can have any definition someone assigns to it. If you think a Glock is a wondernine, then it is. |
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Probably the colt 2000. Glock was taking off at that point. S&W M&P is another. But I consider “wonder nine” a metal frame da/sa 9 mm pistol. |
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Originally Posted By dmk0210: Sure, I guess. If you're OK with being wrong.  Originally Posted By dmk0210: Originally Posted By backbencher: If you think a Glock is a wondernine, then it is. Sure, I guess. If you're OK with being wrong. It's a made up English term whose definition can change over time by usage. If people use "Wondernine" to refer to Glocks, then a Glock becomes a Wondernine. English words change definition by usage. When does cool mean the same as hot? |
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Originally Posted By backbencher:It's a made up English term whose definition can change over time by usage. If people use "Wondernine" to refer to Glocks, then a Glock becomes a Wondernine. English words change definition by usage. When does cool mean the same as hot? Originally Posted By backbencher:It's a made up English term whose definition can change over time by usage. If people use "Wondernine" to refer to Glocks, then a Glock becomes a Wondernine. English words change definition by usage. When does cool mean the same as hot?  However the original use of the term did not include striker fired guns. I think the DA/SA and DAO was kind of a defining feature, because these guns were replacing the revolver in LE use, which also had a DA/SA(kinda) or DAO trigger. LE buyers liked this similar trigger, but with higher capacity. I still believe the Glock was not part of the Wondernines, but actually part of the group that killed the Wondernine because it was a complete different kind of handgun. Still hicap, but one kind of trigger pull which solved the DA/SA transition problem and the DAO accuracy problem that LE were having (or perceived to have). Just saying any hi-cap 9mm is a Wondernine regardless of trigger type kind of ignores the history and makes the term meaningless. Otherwise it would just mean hicap 9mm. However, obviously it is a common internet debate so there are many folks who think otherwise. It's just that those folks are wrong. (kidding!  )https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Nine A Wonder Nine is a semi-automatic pistol chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum with a staggered column magazine and a double-action trigger for at least the first shot.[1] The term was coined by firearms author Robert Shimek, and became popular in American firearm-related magazines during the 1980s and 1990s by those advocating their use by police forces.[1] At the time most American police departments were still using revolvers, with the majority chambered in either .38 Special or .357 Magnum.[2] |
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Last? I'm tracking quite a few current production Wondernine SA/DA: Sig P226 series Beretta 92 and newer series; PX4 Storm CZ P75, Shadow, P-01, P07/P09 FN 502 HK P30L, USP I know there are some one-offs and clones, but those above are still meeting that criteria as "service sized", Wondernine SA/DA handguns. What am I missing? ROCK6 |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: Not really, unless you think they were the end of the era? I think one could separate them, from the Wondernine, the steel or alloy frames DA/SA pistols, to the Wundernines, the poly framed stroker fired...I was thinking of the guns that ruled the 80s. Just got curious what people thought after I got my Star 30M and took a step back into the era of Miami Vice and Magnum PI. Originally Posted By armoredman: Originally Posted By Nick_Adams: OP sounds like he’s asking about S&W Gen 2s or Gen 3s. No? In .45acp, S&W’s big shiny 2nd Gen model 645 was highly regarded during that era as a cop gun (circa 1985-1988) after which it morphed into the 3rd Gen 4506. Several departments around my A/O issued the 645, and the FBI (post-Miami massacre) allowed field agents to carry the 645 before the official change-over to the S&W 10mm 1076 in late 1989/early 1990. |
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