What can you tell me about this bull barrel S&W model 19 (Page 2 of 2)
 Police Pistol Combat Shooting |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: First good explanation I have heard of what damage can actually happen from 357 mag loads. It just did not show up in the picture, but this one does have that very small cut at the bottom of the barrel. I did think it was a little odd, as I was not sure why it was there, till I noticed it was for clearance on the front of the cylinder. I never shoot 125gr in 357. I pretty much stick to 158gr (sometimes 180gr). So if the risk is cracking the forcing cone when shooting hot 125gr bullets, is there as much of a worry when shooting normal 158gr (magnum) loads? I keep my loads at normal pressures and do not push the envelope on speed or pressure. As I said before, I do not foresee damage to the gun from a few 158gr .357 Magnum loads but would not expect the same accuracy as a 148gr WC would achieve. The S&W M19 was designed as a police revolver to be carried comfortably and shot just during annual qualifications. I have four old S&W M19s and personally prefer to shoot 158 gr SWC through them, shooting hot .357 Magnum out of a S&W L-frame, Korths, or MR73, rather. |
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So my question, is why if the gun was built around 148gr wad cutter 38 special, why did they use a 357 mag gun? Why not use a 38 special gun? Or is there supposed to be some type of benefit of the larger jump? I'm guessing there is no benefit as there is a picture on page 1 of a 357 gun with a 38 cylinder in it and a barrel that extends into the frame to match it. So this goes back to why build it from a 357? Just a case of "using what you have available"? And this gun was just what the customer/builder had? |
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Am I incorrect in remembering that the 'L" frame was developed because the 'K" framed guns like the 19 was not holding up well with heavy .357 use? Something about hot 125 gr loads? As far as the gun the OP has I believe I would take the conservative road and not use it as a bowling pin gun where it is common to use quite heavy .357 loads but would feed it lots of nice 38spl level loads. My private feeling is the three top rules to shooting a revolver well are trigger,triger and triger. Sounds like the trigger on the OPs gun has had some great work done to it. sights look good and the only task is to hunt around or shim existing grips to make it look/feel beter. Price for a excellent shooter was quite good to boot . The load I use for Hornaday 148 gr HBWC (the messy ones with the silver coating and very soft bullets 357case , 3.0 gr Bullsey and a magnum primer, Put a small flair in the case so the bullet doesn't scrape itself much and then use a crimp die to wipe the flair back to a straight shape. Not a real crimp,just return the case back to straight . Don't worry about the dehorned hammer , teach yourself to shoot double action and you will be good to go |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So my question, is why if the gun was built around 148gr wad cutter 38 special, why did they use a 357 mag gun? Why not use a 38 special gun? Or is there supposed to be some type of benefit of the larger jump? I'm guessing there is no benefit as there is a picture on page 1 of a 357 gun with a 38 cylinder in it and a barrel that extends into the frame to match it. So this goes back to why build it from a 357? Just a case of "using what you have available"? And this gun was just what the customer/builder had? There are lots of .38 PPC guns. I think it largely just depends on what the donor gun was. Many of them were built on department issued frames, which might understandably be .357s, mostly model 65 and 66s. |
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Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns: So my question, is why if the gun was built around 148gr wad cutter 38 special, why did they use a 357 mag gun? Why not use a 38 special gun? Or is there supposed to be some type of benefit of the larger jump? I'm guessing there is no benefit as there is a picture on page 1 of a 357 gun with a 38 cylinder in it and a barrel that extends into the frame to match it. So this goes back to why build it from a 357? Just a case of "using what you have available"? And this gun was just what the customer/builder had? We cannot know about the individual decision of this unknown gunsmith but make a guess. My guess is, that a S&W M19 with a cracked forcing cone might have come along and was used. Blued M19 spare barrels were sold out pretty quickly and already 30 years ago I marveled at a S&W M19 with an M66 four inch barrel at a gun show. In general M19s were always at least 150% of the price of a S&W M10, so using one would have added unnecessary cost without a benefit. |
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Very nice buy great info in this thread. Had no idea about the forcing cone for wadcutter guns, interestingly I remember reading you should never do it but never thought "why" I asked Google "Danger of shooting magnum loads in a gun with an 11 degree forcing cone cut for wadcutters" I got this back... Shooting high-pressure magnum loads through a revolver customized or cut with an 11-degree forcing cone (specifically tailored for soft lead wadcutters) accelerates flame cutting, increases gas/pressure loss at the barrel-cylinder gap, and enlarges the breech mouth, raising the risk of premature barrel erosion or a cracked forcing cone. Risks of Magnum Loads in 11-Degree Cones Accelerated Erosion: An 11-degree cone provides a wide, shallow, and gradual taper optimized for smooth lead entry. High-velocity magnum gases and burning powders quickly scour this broader opening, causing rapid wear. Thinner Barrel Walls: Cutting a shallow, wide angle deeper into the barrel thins out the steel right at the breech face, making the metal structurally weaker against heavy repetitive high-pressure spikes. Gas and Pressure Loss: The wide mouth allows hot propellant gases to bypass the bullet base more easily at the transition, lowering efficiency and worsening flame cutting on the frame or top strap. Bullet Deformation: Magnum pressures can slam high-velocity or jacketed projectiles into a shallow, wide angle too aggressively, sometimes degrading accuracy rather than helping it. I learned something today... |
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Originally Posted By Larrys1911: Very nice buy great info in this thread. Had no idea about the forcing cone for wadcutter guns, interestingly I remember reading you should never do it but never thought "why" I asked Google "Danger of shooting magnum loads in a gun with an 11 degree forcing cone cut for wadcutters" I got this back... Shooting high-pressure magnum loads through a revolver customized or cut with an 11-degree forcing cone (specifically tailored for soft lead wadcutters) accelerates flame cutting, increases gas/pressure loss at the barrel-cylinder gap, and enlarges the breech mouth, raising the risk of premature barrel erosion or a cracked forcing cone. Risks of Magnum Loads in 11-Degree Cones Accelerated Erosion: An 11-degree cone provides a wide, shallow, and gradual taper optimized for smooth lead entry. High-velocity magnum gases and burning powders quickly scour this broader opening, causing rapid wear. Thinner Barrel Walls: Cutting a shallow, wide angle deeper into the barrel thins out the steel right at the breech face, making the metal structurally weaker against heavy repetitive high-pressure spikes. Gas and Pressure Loss: The wide mouth allows hot propellant gases to bypass the bullet base more easily at the transition, lowering efficiency and worsening flame cutting on the frame or top strap. Bullet Deformation: Magnum pressures can slam high-velocity or jacketed projectiles into a shallow, wide angle too aggressively, sometimes degrading accuracy rather than helping it. I learned something today... Seems like a pretty reasonable explanation. So does this mean it can shoot ONLY wad cutters, or can I use regular 158gr bullets in 38 special. |