Posted: 12/21/2025 11:51:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: -OdieGreen-][Edited]
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I posted in main handgun discussion about how Germany dumped the USP for a CZ P10, but feel like this deserves its own thread. HK has said outright the USP will never see any evolution. USP’s for civilians are already limited to minimal runs, and I would not want to bet my money on them continuing to make them at all once the transition is completed. Which is sad. Beretta evolved the 92 after they lost their contract and it’s become a powerhouse after the fact somehow. Same thing happened with the 1911. It’s a damn shame HK has no interest in modernizing the USP. A picatinny rail, front cocking serrations, optic cut, and a standard Match trigger would make it still a very relevant platform. As someone who has shot a P30 and USP side by side, the rail is the only win the P30 has over the USP. Enough ranting I guess. If you want a USP, now is probably the time to buy. RIP. 
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I've always considered the P30 (and HK45[c]) lineup the updated USP. Mechanically they're very similar; but, of course, the P30 series has all the updated goodies (pic rail, customizable grips, front slide serrations, etc.) added in. HK pistols are my favorite; have a chunk of rounds through them. Love me some USP and P30, with an edge to the P30. Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By Furyataurus: Hasn't HK said they want to discontinue the USP but there's enough demand to keep making them???  Cite? HK USA said in an interview with James Reeves the USP is basically done for. Was that recently? Do you have the link? I wanna listen. It's all speculation from me here but I think the VP may be the beginning of the end for the USP and P30. Assuming HK were to discontinue the latter pair (which would be a travesty) the VPs may be the catalyst. Especially when the USP still cost like $900-$1000 and you can get a P30 for $700-$800, the VPs are even cheaper still. So the price point of the USP isn't helping its cause. Guess we'll see how it plays out. |
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Originally Posted By Spartan16: I've always considered the P30 (and HK45[c]) lineup the updated USP. Mechanically they're very similar; but, of course, the P30 series has all the updated goodies (pic rail, customizable grips, front slide serrations, etc.) added in. HK pistols are my favorite; have a chunk of rounds through them. Love me some USP and P30, with an edge to the P30. Was that recently? Do you have the link? I wanna listen. It's all speculation from me here but I think the VP may be the beginning of the end for the USP and P30. Assuming HK were to discontinue the latter pair (which would be a travesty) the VPs may be the catalyst. Especially when the USP still cost like $900-$1000 and you can get a P30 for $700-$800, the VPs are even cheaper still. So the price point of the USP isn't helping its cause. Guess we'll see how it plays out. The civilian G36 announcement video below, about the 19 minute mark.  H&K MP7 & G36 Coming to the USA? Exclusive Interview with HK USA’s Michael Holley I’m not sure what to think of the VP. Mine had terrible spring to slide weight and felt like shooting a 40, so I sold it. I had the same issue with my PPQ. They seemed good on paper but I found myself fighting the rebound more than I have to on any of my 9’s. Paying almost double for an A1 that likely shoots the same just seems crazy to me. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: As someone who has shot a P30 and USP side by side, the rail is the only win the P30 has over the USP. I would say the Accessory Rail "and" the Pistol Grip on the P30 are wins over the USP9. Regardless, thanks for the info. It will be a sad day if the USP does finally go away after 30 years. This would probably include the Mark 23 too. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: The civilian G36 announcement video below, about the 19 minute mark.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1bdfL1CdcI’m not sure what to think of the VP. Mine had terrible spring to slide weight and felt like shooting a 40, so I sold it. I had the same issue with my PPQ. They seemed good on paper but I found myself fighting the rebound more than I have to on any of my 9’s. Paying almost double for an A1 that likely shoots the same just seems crazy to me. Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By Spartan16: I've always considered the P30 (and HK45[c]) lineup the updated USP. Mechanically they're very similar; but, of course, the P30 series has all the updated goodies (pic rail, customizable grips, front slide serrations, etc.) added in. HK pistols are my favorite; have a chunk of rounds through them. Love me some USP and P30, with an edge to the P30. Was that recently? Do you have the link? I wanna listen. It's all speculation from me here but I think the VP may be the beginning of the end for the USP and P30. Assuming HK were to discontinue the latter pair (which would be a travesty) the VPs may be the catalyst. Especially when the USP still cost like $900-$1000 and you can get a P30 for $700-$800, the VPs are even cheaper still. So the price point of the USP isn't helping its cause. Guess we'll see how it plays out. The civilian G36 announcement video below, about the 19 minute mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1bdfL1CdcI’m not sure what to think of the VP. Mine had terrible spring to slide weight and felt like shooting a 40, so I sold it. I had the same issue with my PPQ. They seemed good on paper but I found myself fighting the rebound more than I have to on any of my 9’s. Paying almost double for an A1 that likely shoots the same just seems crazy to me. Thanks for the link. I bought a VP9 right as they were released (2014). Loved my P30L so figured it was a rational step. However, after taking it shooting I just didn't like it enough to keep it; figured the money would be better spent on ammo for the stuff I already had. Thankfully I was able to get one right as they hit shelves and was able to sell if for what I paid for it despite shooting ~300 rounds through it. So I feel ya. As much as I love the P30/USP line I was a bit disappointed the VP didn't fit in with them (in fairness, I had really high hopes). If the USP and P30 lineups are ever discontinued I might cry. 
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| For my New Years and birthday gift to myself just bought a P8A1 since we don’t know how many will be imported by HK and how long they will last in production. I have already have a 1994 USP 9mm, along with a USP’s in .40 S&W and .45 ACP, but the P8A1 is rarer than most |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: I bought a couple of the elites 2 years ago. Now I need an expert or two. Finding an Expert slide at a decent price is my next goal. Probably unrealistic now but want to have it RMR cut, add front slide serrations, and maybe have it ported to go on my peanut butter USP9 with the same slide finish. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: Ended up ordering a USP Expert 9 a few days ago. Shame all the ODG ones are stupid expensive. I opted for black. It will be replacing my USP9 as a carry gun. I have no issue carrying a full-size pistol. You have a plan for the blacked out target sights? You can buy a Meprolight front directly from them if needed. |
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Originally Posted By RedFox1911: You have a plan for the blacked out target sights? You can buy a Meprolight front directly from them if needed. No plan yet. I do have a good sight pusher tool handy and can swap them. I’d love to mount the my spare SRO on it however it appears the adjustable sight USP pistols aren’t set up for milling. Found that out after I bought an elite. I may just throw night sights on it. |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: No plan yet. I do have a good sight pusher tool handy and can swap them. I’d love to mount the my spare SRO on it however it appears the adjustable sight USP pistols aren’t set up for milling. Found that out after I bought an elite. I may just throw night sights on it. Might ask around about an ACRO cut. I’m not sure about the USP but I know on the long slide Glocks that can’t be milled for RMR/DPP you can get away with the ACRO cut. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Might ask around about an ACRO cut. I’m not sure about the USP but I know on the long slide Glocks that can’t be milled for RMR/DPP you can get away with the ACRO cut. Looks like weight armory does a plate kit and has a setup for the RMR/SRO and ACRO. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Finding an Expert slide at a decent price is my next goal. Probably unrealistic now but want to have it RMR cut, add front slide serrations, and maybe have it ported to go on my peanut butter USP9 with the same slide finish. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/61399/Photoroom_20260114_224510_jpeg-3695773.JPG Well, if that gun doesn’t scream for an “ACRO”. Then I dunno what to think.  (Not mine )
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Originally Posted By Black-Tiger: Well, if that gun doesn’t scream for an “ACRO”. Then I dunno what to think. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/88117/IMG_9288-3802634.jpg (Not mine )I’ve thought about it. The FDE ACRO would look great on it. |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: I’ve thought about it. The FDE ACRO would look great on it. Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: Originally Posted By Black-Tiger: Well, if that gun doesn’t scream for an “ACRO”. Then I dunno what to think. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/88117/IMG_9288-3802634.jpg (Not mine )I’ve thought about it. The FDE ACRO would look great on it. I vote - yes. |
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I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
Kites rise highest against the wind, not with it. - Churchill
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Originally Posted By Furyataurus: Hasn't HK said they want to discontinue the USP but there's enough demand to keep making them??? GM had demand for the Caprice, Roadmaster and Cadillac Fleetwood but still shut down production in 1996 to move forward with the more popular (and more profitable) SUVs at their Arlington TX plant. Dodge really wanted to discontinue the grand caravan before 2018 (they didn't want to retool for the new airbag standards), but they had so much demand in the commercial vehicle market, that they stuck around all the way until 2020 before moving on with the newer minivans first introduced several years earlier. So while a company can certainly keep producing something, your best bet is to buy one now before they make their final decision and give up. Personally, I'm pretty shocked they've been making the USP for as long as they have considering the p30 and vp9 has been out for quite some time. |
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Originally Posted By DavidY: GM had demand for the Caprice, Roadmaster and Cadillac Fleetwood but still shut down production in 1996 to move forward with the more popular (and more profitable) SUVs at their Arlington TX plant. Dodge really wanted to discontinue the grand caravan before 2018 (they didn't want to retool for the new airbag standards), but they had so much demand in the commercial vehicle market, that they stuck around all the way until 2020 before moving on with the newer minivans first introduced several years earlier. So while a company can certainly keep producing something, your best bet is to buy one now before they make their final decision and give up. Personally, I'm pretty shocked they've been making the USP for as long as they have considering the p30 and vp9 has been out for quite some time. Originally Posted By DavidY: Originally Posted By Furyataurus: Hasn't HK said they want to discontinue the USP but there's enough demand to keep making them??? GM had demand for the Caprice, Roadmaster and Cadillac Fleetwood but still shut down production in 1996 to move forward with the more popular (and more profitable) SUVs at their Arlington TX plant. Dodge really wanted to discontinue the grand caravan before 2018 (they didn't want to retool for the new airbag standards), but they had so much demand in the commercial vehicle market, that they stuck around all the way until 2020 before moving on with the newer minivans first introduced several years earlier. So while a company can certainly keep producing something, your best bet is to buy one now before they make their final decision and give up. Personally, I'm pretty shocked they've been making the USP for as long as they have considering the p30 and vp9 has been out for quite some time. The dumb decision was making 4 different hammer fired designs for years. Consolidating into one hammer fired gun is necessary to move on an then build out that platform. They can't compete against themselves. Especially when you look at used vs new prices, generally with the USP, it is a really tight spread. It is still deeply loved and in demand vs every other hammer fired HK. |
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Originally Posted By RedFox1911: The dumb decision was making 4 different hammer fired designs for years. Consolidating into one hammer fired gun is necessary to move on an then build out that platform. They can't compete against themselves. Especially when you look at used vs new prices, generally with the USP, it is a really tight spread. It is still deeply loved and in demand vs every other hammer fired HK. Originally Posted By RedFox1911: Originally Posted By DavidY: Originally Posted By Furyataurus: Hasn't HK said they want to discontinue the USP but there's enough demand to keep making them??? GM had demand for the Caprice, Roadmaster and Cadillac Fleetwood but still shut down production in 1996 to move forward with the more popular (and more profitable) SUVs at their Arlington TX plant. Dodge really wanted to discontinue the grand caravan before 2018 (they didn't want to retool for the new airbag standards), but they had so much demand in the commercial vehicle market, that they stuck around all the way until 2020 before moving on with the newer minivans first introduced several years earlier. So while a company can certainly keep producing something, your best bet is to buy one now before they make their final decision and give up. Personally, I'm pretty shocked they've been making the USP for as long as they have considering the p30 and vp9 has been out for quite some time. The dumb decision was making 4 different hammer fired designs for years. Consolidating into one hammer fired gun is necessary to move on an then build out that platform. They can't compete against themselves. Especially when you look at used vs new prices, generally with the USP, it is a really tight spread. It is still deeply loved and in demand vs every other hammer fired HK. Consider though. They have already tooled up and made them. While it may be competing against themselves. The initial investment is complete and the tooling is in use. Does not cost much to keep the production line running as needed for ordered. The issue is when it gets too slow to staff it and then it becomes worth shutting down. |
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| I have a USP .40 and a USPc .40, both cost me pennies on the dollar back when .40 S&W was being ditched by every LE agency in the country. Have a small pile of mags for 'em. I figured the only thing keeping the USP in production was the military contract with the FRG. With that over, it makes sense to HK to retire the USP line. They've updated it a few times already. The P2000 and P30 were evolutionary advancements and in the end. The world is now a striker-fred market. It sucks, but it is what it is. A lot of the guns I own and enjoy have been discontinued. |
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Originally Posted By Miami_JBT: I have a USP .40 and a USPc .40, both cost me pennies on the dollar back when .40 S&W was being ditched by every LE agency in the country. Have a small pile of mags for 'em. I figured the only thing keeping the USP in production was the military contract with the FRG. With that over, it makes sense to HK to retire the USP line. They've updated it a few times already. The P2000 and P30 were evolutionary advancements and in the end. The world is now a striker-fred market. It sucks, but it is what it is. A lot of the guns I own and enjoy have been discontinued. It’s funny and sad at the same time. A USP with 16+1 in 40 is still a plenty capable firearm for defense. |
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As much as I love the USP (started carrying one in 1994), I’d argue they did evolve it. The P30 and HK45 are essentially product improved USPs. The only feature absent is the double RSA. Could not begin to calculate the number of USPs I’ve owned over the last 32 years but it is significant. Great guns, but the P30 / HK45 is more user friendly for me. To my mind if you update the USP45 you end up with a 12 round HK45. Update a USP9 and you have a P30/P30L. USPC = P30SK. Having said all of that… If I were taking a Time Machine back to the Battle of Stalingrad I’d take a USP as my sidearm. They just make me feel … secure. |
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Originally Posted By GaryT1776: As much as I love the USP (started carrying one in 1994), I’d argue they did evolve it. The P30 and HK45 are essentially product improved USPs. The only feature absent is the double RSA. Could not begin to calculate the number of USPs I’ve owned over the last 32 years but it is significant. Great guns, but the P30 / HK45 is more user friendly for me. To my mind if you update the USP45 you end up with a 12 round HK45. Update a USP9 and you have a P30/P30L. USPC = P30SK. Having said all of that… If I were taking a Time Machine back to the Battle of Stalingrad I’d take a USP as my sidearm. They just make me feel … secure. The evolution of the USPc was really the P2000. The p30SK feels more like the G26 in its size and was more like a competitor to the double stack compact line ups from other brands |
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Originally Posted By tightlines49: My .45 tac, and it’s clone in .45 super say “NEIN”. You change anything on the gun or just run the Super? I bought a pile of ammo on the EE with the understanding the HK will handle it dead stock. |
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Originally Posted By Curmudgeon762: You change anything on the gun or just run the Super? I bought a pile of ammo on the EE with the understanding the HK will handle it dead stock. Full size USP 45… run it as is. The internal dual spring handles it without an issue. If you’re concerned you can go 2 lb heavier on the slide spring but it’s not actually needed. The second internal spring keeps the slide from bottoming out. My USP 45 has a couple thousand rounds of 45 super through it. |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: Full size USP 45… run it as is. The internal dual spring handles it without an issue. If you’re concerned you can go 2 lb heavier on the slide spring but it’s not actually needed. The second internal spring keeps the slide from bottoming out. My USP 45 has a couple thousand rounds of 45 super through it. Thanks. How about an HK45 Compact? I know it will be a little snappy but I am thinking it will be fine with limited use. By that I mean confirm function and use the super rounds for carry |
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Originally Posted By Curmudgeon762: Thanks. How about an HK45 Compact? I know it will be a little snappy but I am thinking it will be fine with limited use. By that I mean confirm function and use the super rounds for carry I wouldn’t recommend a steady diet. I’ve done it. It’s snappy for sure. The thing is the compacts don’t have that same recoil double spring and it beats the gun up too much. If it was carry ammo. It will survive but it’s hard on the gun. Not something I’d want to shoot in it. I did also try the super ammo in the Springfield XDS. Don’t do that. In the Springfield XD full-size and Tactical long slide it did well. I did do some spring swapping in those guns though. My P220’s and 1911s are all loaded with supers except one that is set up for 460Rowland. Experimented a bit with this cartridge. I prefer the 185’s as they are moving at some insane velocity. |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: I wouldn’t recommend a steady diet. I’ve done it. It’s snappy for sure. The thing is the compacts don’t have that same recoil double spring and it beats the gun up too much. If it was carry ammo. It will survive but it’s hard on the gun. Not something I’d want to shoot in it. I did also try the super ammo in the Springfield XDS. Don’t do that. In the Springfield XD full-size and Tactical long slide it did well. I did do some spring swapping in those guns though. My P220’s and 1911s are all loaded with supers except one that is set up for 460Rowland. Experimented a bit with this cartridge. I prefer the 185’s as they are moving at some insane velocity. That is pretty much what I thought. I have a #22 recoil spring for my Sig 220 and am pretty confident it will be fine. What all did you do to the 1911’s? And yes, I know I’m derailing this thread. |
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Originally Posted By Curmudgeon762: That is pretty much what I thought. I have a #22 recoil spring for my Sig 220 and am pretty confident it will be fine. What all did you do to the 1911’s? And yes, I know I’m derailing this thread. All good. Don’t think anyone cares about derailing an old thread. For a 1911. I use a 14 or 16 lb spring and a squared firing pin stop. Take the firing pin stop out and get an un rounded one. See this link. https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/sp0550-firing-pin-stop-10mm-carbon Note the bottom of the stop has a tiny radius? Most 1911s have a huge radius. The square bottom puts more pressure lower on the hammer and uses the hammer as a sort of toggle lock to retard the slide reward movement. If you put one of these in your 1911 you’ll find it’s hard to rack with the hammer forward and easy when the hammer is back. That resistance is overcome by the hotter 45 super. My 1911s run +P Speer gold dot perfectly and occasionally fail to lock the slide back (short stroking) with cheap junk ball ammo. Good ball ammo barely locks back. |
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Originally Posted By NachoDip: All good. Don’t think anyone cares about derailing an old thread. For a 1911. I use a 14 or 16 lb spring and a squared firing pin stop. Take the firing pin stop out and get an un rounded one. See this link. https://www.nighthawkcustom.com/sp0550-firing-pin-stop-10mm-carbon Note the bottom of the stop has a tiny radius? Most 1911s have a huge radius. The square bottom puts more pressure lower on the hammer and uses the hammer as a sort of toggle lock to retard the slide reward movement. If you put one of these in your 1911 you’ll find it’s hard to rack with the hammer forward and easy when the hammer is back. That resistance is overcome by the hotter 45 super. My 1911s run +P Speer gold dot perfectly and occasionally fail to lock the slide back (short stroking) with cheap junk ball ammo. Good ball ammo barely locks back. That makes sense and is easy enough. I remember reading something about how the radius on the stop affects the force needed to pull the slide back. Thanks |
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Originally Posted By Curmudgeon762: That makes sense and is easy enough. I remember reading something about how the radius on the stop affects the force needed to pull the slide back. Thanks Makes a huge difference. It took me a while to find one that was a sharp square instead of even a small radius. Then I had to do some fitting. But it fit perfectly when I was done. |
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