The Browning High Power and the Click Test (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 8/24/2011 3:04:19 PM EDT
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I have to confess I never heard of the "click test," but it might be valuable for members here who, like me, fiddle around with their pistols. I have a FEG Browning clone that I have been swapping out parts from the junk box, and found a C&S safety that fit right in. "Lucked out again" I thought to myself - until I read this quote from another board from a guy who is a gunsmith:
As for the click test, anyone who owns a high power should test their gun. With the firearm unloaded or empty, pointed in a safe direction,, cock the hammer, put the safety on, pull the trigger. Disengage the safety and apply pressure to the hammer in a cocking manner, while listening very closely, or watching the sear. If you hear a click or see the sear move, your safety is not completely engaging the sear. This is very common in BHP designs. Most require material added to the sear, as the safety can only have so much material before it will not go in the frame. Curious, I tried my BHPs. Custom Heirloom Precision - no click and no surprise. Novak-powered BHP - no click. FEG that I have been dicking around with: "click!" Obviously, my gunsmithing skills amount to zip and this is the result, but thought I should pass this along as it certainly seems important to those of us who look for the phrase, "drop in" when looking for parts. Apparently, dropping in parts could cost you a knee under the right circumstances. Here is where I ran across the "click test:" click test thread |
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I'll have to tried that. Thanks. Never tried the hammer. Noticed my safety would be harder to disengage after a trigger pull. |
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If this is an indication that the safety and the sear are not in full engagement, I'd say yeah, that is the problem that the original author was trying to impress upon us.
I doubt anybody would mind if it went "click" or not if there wasn't a safety issue. |
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Originally Posted By Tirador223: I have to confess I never heard of the "click test," but it might be valuable for members here who, like me, fiddle around with their pistols. I have a FEG Browning clone that I have been swapping out parts from the junk box, and found a C&S safety that fit right in. "Lucked out again" I thought to myself - until I read this quote from another board from a guy who is a gunsmith: As for the click test, anyone who owns a high power should test their gun. With the firearm unloaded or empty, pointed in a safe direction,, cock the hammer, put the safety on, pull the trigger. Disengage the safety and apply pressure to the hammer in a cocking manner, while listening very closely, or watching the sear. If you hear a click or see the sear move, your safety is not completely engaging the sear. This is very common in BHP designs. Most require material added to the sear, as the safety can only have so much material before it will not go in the frame. Curious, I tried my BHPs. Custom Heirloom Precision - no click and no surprise. Novak-powered BHP - no click. FEG that I have been dicking around with: "click!" Obviously, my gunsmithing skills amount to zip and this is the result, but thought I should pass this along as it certainly seems important to those of us who look for the phrase, "drop in" when looking for parts. Apparently, dropping in parts could cost you a knee under the right circumstances. Here is where I ran across the "click test:" click test thread Do you keep pressure on the trigger while you disengage the safety? If I'm pulling the trigger while disengaging the safety, the gun "fires". Or is there something else about this "click test" that I'm just not seeing? |
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Do you keep pressure on the trigger while you disengage the safety? If I'm pulling the trigger while disengaging the safety, the gun "fires". Or is there something else about this "click test" that I'm just not seeing? Perhaps I can clear this up. Unload the gun. Cock the hammer. Put the safety on. Pull the trigger. With the safety on or off (it seems) but without pulling the trigger and without pointing it at your head, put pressure on the hammer spur and pull the hammer back. If something is amiss (again, according to the original thread and the apparently knowledgable gunsmith), you will hear a slight click sound like I do with my FEG but not with my other Browning pistols. I hope this helps. |
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As the original author(I think) an easier way is this, for those who can see the hammer and sear engagement....
With the gun unloaded, hammer cocked and safety on.... Apply pressure to the trigger with the safety on while looking at the sear and hammer engagement. If you see ANY movement, the sear and safety are not completely locked together. What does this mean? There is not complete mechanical engagement of the safety. With the BHP design this very often means adding material to the sear, because the safety lug can only be so big before it will not go in the frame. CW |
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Originally Posted By Tirador223: Well....Mine passed. Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Do you keep pressure on the trigger while you disengage the safety? If I'm pulling the trigger while disengaging the safety, the gun "fires". Or is there something else about this "click test" that I'm just not seeing? Perhaps I can clear this up. Unload the gun. Cock the hammer. Put the safety on. Pull the trigger. With the safety on or off (it seems) but without pulling the trigger and without pointing it at your head, put pressure on the hammer spur and pull the hammer back. If something is amiss (again, according to the original thread and the apparently knowledgable gunsmith), you will hear a slight click sound like I do with my FEG but not with my other Browning pistols. I hope this helps. But pulling the trigger with the safety on does increase the safety friction when I go to turn it off. Does that mean anything? |
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Hmm, might have a bad one on my Israeli 1992 MKIII.
Cock Hammer Apply safety pull trigger (sear pops up) release trigger Pull hammer - sear drops with a very slight click. Next question though is does this test apply to all HP's? Later versions of the MKIII have a firing pin safety. |
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Originally Posted By drobs:
Hmm, might have a bad one on my Israeli 1992 MKIII. Cock Hammer Apply safety pull trigger (sear pops up) release trigger Pull hammer - sear drops with a very slight click. Next question though is does this test apply to all HP's? Later versions of the MKIII have a firing pin safety. Yes |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Hmm, might have a bad one on my Israeli 1992 1989 MKIIIMKsomething. Cock Hammer Apply safety pull trigger (sear pops up) release trigger Pull hammer - sear drops with a very slight click. If I listen really carefully, watch the gun, and crank on the trigger hard with the safety on, I hear a faint "click;" also, just as in the situation above, under normal trigger pressures the sear pops up, but doesn't "click." What's the source/route for a quick/cheap fix? I somehow doubt Browning would enjoy my sending it back to them......this thing's got a few pieces of battle damage, and has been refinished  |
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The pop up is the predecessor to the click. Any movement of the sear is undesireable. I weld a spot on the sear and refit the sear and safety.
Where my concern lies, is when you apply pressure to the trigger with the safety on, then take the safety off later, as if to fire, the trigger pull is significantly easier and usually breaks somewhat surprisingly. Chuck Warner |
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Originally Posted By Dbllvr: So, the largest concern is that the initial trigger pull would otherwise be lighter than expected? Any other possible concerns?The pop up is the predecessor to the click. Any movement of the sear is undesireable. I weld a spot on the sear and refit the sear and safety. Where my concern lies, is when you apply pressure to the trigger with the safety on, then take the safety off later, as if to fire, the trigger pull is significantly easier and usually breaks somewhat surprisingly. Chuck Warner |
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Not that I have been aware of. The surprise break can be rather disconcerting. I am not aware of anything beyond that.
I have been modifying the guns through my shop like that for awhile. The reurgence of interest in The BHP has brought this up again. Chuck Warner |
| As an old high Power fan from way back, can you tell us why you feel a resurgence in interest? I'm curious as I have always felt like dinosaur at pistol classes I have taken with my bhp. |
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I can only attribute it to the late ammo shortages and the desire for a single action that was reliable in 9mm. Im glad for it. Very few focus on BHPs in the trade and I enjoy them. In the coming weeks and months I hope to have some really interesting ones ready.
CW |
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Originally Posted By Dbllvr:
The pop up is the predecessor to the click. Any movement of the sear is undesireable. I weld a spot on the sear and refit the sear and safety. Where my concern lies, is when you apply pressure to the trigger with the safety on, then take the safety off later, as if to fire, the trigger pull is significantly easier and usually breaks somewhat surprisingly. Chuck Warner What is the fear that will happen next as this continues to wear? Lowering the safety causing the pistol to fire? |
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Under what circumstances would you apply pressure to the trigger with the safety on where this issue would be a concern? Not very many. I just happen to believe it should stay put period. Solid sloppy reholstering would be the first thing to come to mind. CW |
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Originally Posted By Tirador223:
As an old high Power fan from way back, can you tell us why you feel a resurgence in interest? I'm curious as I have always felt like dinosaur at pistol classes I have taken with my bhp. I've gotten the same sort of responses but the jokesters usually clam up when A. their pistols fail while my BHP keeps on spitting out lead. and B. I shoot as good if not better then most of them. |
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Originally Posted By Tirador223:
As an old high Power fan from way back, can you tell us why you feel a resurgence in interest? I'm curious as I have always felt like dinosaur at pistol classes I have taken with my bhp. I think it is partially due to the fact many of us don't care for the continuing onslaught of polymer framed handguns, and with the internet giving more & more people the knowledge that the HP is a proven design that has few reliability issues, has excellent ergonomics, and is respected & still used worldwide by military & police it just continues to grow it's fan base. Thanks for the click test, my Mark 3 passes. |
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Point one, My new FEG P35 passed the click test, a good thing, I guess!
Point two: I think the resurgence in P35 interest has some of the same roots as interest in retro AR15s... simple, functional, reliable. An awful lot of firearms nowdays have more cr@p stuck to them, that make an expensive handgun the cheapest part of the whole setup. Tacticool ARs with $1200 sights and 4 pounds of accessories bolted on. UGH! When I grabbed my XM177E2 or USGI M1 Carbine out of the patrol vehicle trunk to take off after a bad guy that took "leg bail" I didn't want 5 extra punds of gizmos on it! My retro 601 AR is as 1961 basic as you cab get. Plus I carried an M16A1 and GUA-5A/A in the 1970s in the service, so it is familiar. The P35 is a classic second only to the 1911, and has been used by more militaries than any other pistol in history. In 25 years of LEO and military, I have carried just about all major handguns at one time or another. While I liked the Glock 19, my 1987 vintage 469 S&W is my favorite carry weapon. As for a military grade handgun to go with my AR, I was drawn back to the P35 (once I found one I could afford on limited income). We used the 9mm to great effect on goblins on the SO (Hydro Shock +P and Gold Dot +P) It always worked. Sorry about the ramble, blame it on the pain meds I am on at the moment... |
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So I took this thread to heart when fitting my C&S safety. Went really slow and took the minimum material away so that it could be put on safe with the hammer pulled back to maximum for reassembly. Trigger pull with safety on...no play...movement whatsoever....Just took a TON of time and patience.... 
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Saw something similar with a 1911 once. Cock it, put the safety on, pull the trigger. Let up on the trigger, move the thumb safety to the fire position and the hammer would drop to half cock.
Replacing the safety fixed that one. I know, different design but this can happen with more guns than just the HP. |
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Originally Posted By M1A4ME: Saw something similar with a 1911 once. Cock it, put the safety on, pull the trigger. Let up on the trigger, move the thumb safety to the fire position and the hammer would drop to half cock. Replacing the safety fixed that one. I know, different design but this can happen with more guns than just the HP. After reading this thread, I will admit that I tried the click test on my 1911s; they passed. My "old" HP that's been refinished has the sear move a bit......notably, it also has a decent trigger pull. My "new"er BHP that I recently acquired (though it looks like it's been through a meat grinder) passes hte click test, but has a worse trigger. Who knows. |
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Originally Posted By imarangemaster:
Point one, My new FEG P35 passed the click test, a good thing, I guess! Point two: I think the resurgence in P35 interest has some of the same roots as interest in retro AR15s... simple, functional, reliable. An awful lot of firearms nowdays have more cr@p stuck to them, that make an expensive handgun the cheapest part of the whole setup. Tacticool ARs with $1200 sights and 4 pounds of accessories bolted on. UGH! When I grabbed my XM177E2 or USGI M1 Carbine out of the patrol vehicle trunk to take off after a bad guy that took "leg bail" I didn't want 5 extra punds of gizmos on it! My retro 601 AR is as 1961 basic as you cab get. Plus I carried an M16A1 and GUA-5A/A in the 1970s in the service, so it is familiar. The P35 is a classic second only to the 1911, and has been used by more militaries than any other pistol in history. In 25 years of LEO and military, I have carried just about all major handguns at one time or another. While I liked the Glock 19, my 1987 vintage 469 S&W is my favorite carry weapon. As for a military grade handgun to go with my AR, I was drawn back to the P35 (once I found one I could afford on limited income). We used the 9mm to great effect on goblins on the SO (Hydro Shock +P and Gold Dot +P) It always worked. Sorry about the ramble, blame it on the pain meds I am on at the moment... I think it is some of that, and that there is some "1911-overload", and just some interest in something that has the same class, history, and function. 1911's are great, but they are being played-out in the worst of ways. The BHP offers the same core qualities, but a relatively blank-slate to work with. I hope the increased interest continues. I sent pics of my new FEG HP to six of my friends. Two of them thought it was a 1911, the other four didn't know what it was. They are all "gun-guys". I wasn't disappointed. Honestly, I felt enlightened, but I really thought the awareness of the BHP would be a little higher than that. |
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Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By imarangemaster:
Point one, My new FEG P35 passed the click test, a good thing, I guess! Point two: I think the resurgence in P35 interest has some of the same roots as interest in retro AR15s... simple, functional, reliable. An awful lot of firearms nowdays have more cr@p stuck to them, that make an expensive handgun the cheapest part of the whole setup. Tacticool ARs with $1200 sights and 4 pounds of accessories bolted on. UGH! When I grabbed my XM177E2 or USGI M1 Carbine out of the patrol vehicle trunk to take off after a bad guy that took "leg bail" I didn't want 5 extra punds of gizmos on it! My retro 601 AR is as 1961 basic as you cab get. Plus I carried an M16A1 and GUA-5A/A in the 1970s in the service, so it is familiar. The P35 is a classic second only to the 1911, and has been used by more militaries than any other pistol in history. In 25 years of LEO and military, I have carried just about all major handguns at one time or another. While I liked the Glock 19, my 1987 vintage 469 S&W is my favorite carry weapon. As for a military grade handgun to go with my AR, I was drawn back to the P35 (once I found one I could afford on limited income). We used the 9mm to great effect on goblins on the SO (Hydro Shock +P and Gold Dot +P) It always worked. Sorry about the ramble, blame it on the pain meds I am on at the moment... I think it is some of that, and that there is some "1911-overload", and just some interest in something that has the same class, history, and function. 1911's are great, but they are being played-out in the worst of ways. The BHP offers the same core qualities, but a relatively blank-slate to work with. I hope the increased interest continues. I sent pics of my new FEG HP to six of my friends. Two of them thought it was a 1911, the other four didn't know what it was. They are all "gun-guys". I wasn't disappointed. Honestly, I felt enlightened, but I really thought the awareness of the BHP would be a little higher than that. I think with older generations, the P-35 is more well known. I'm almost 60, and the BHP was the pistol I wanted from the time I was 12! I even had a Nakata Japanese made BHP non-gun in 1964. If you wanted high capacity in the 50s and 60s, the P35 and French MAB were the only game in town. Since the 80s and 90s, everyone is SIG, HK, S&W, Glock, and Beretta overload. Lots of guys my age on the retro AR forum are into HPs. Younger generations never heard of them, don't realize that it was used by both sides in WW2, and first choice of SAS and many others for years. It is a retro handgun, almost like an M1 Carbine (at least until recently when CMP flooded the market with them). Some folks have heard of them, but most never handled one and know little about. Their loss is our gain. Low demand keeps prices down! My FEG goes well with my USGI M1 Carbine or my Retro AR15! |
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. |
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Originally Posted By DanTSX: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. |
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Originally Posted By verderben:
Weird my KBI FEG didn't click. Just lucky I guess. David Neither did mine until I started swapping parts around. Now I have a (carefully fitted) C&S safety and a Browning hammer on it, no click, no problems. I don't think there is a thing wrong with the FEGs as they came from the factory and have been really pleased with the pistol for the money. |
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. What is a mousetrap gun? |
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Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. What is a mousetrap gun? There are factory mags that have a spring on the rear of them to eject the mag when you hit the release button on a gun that has the mag safety. |
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. What is a mousetrap gun? There are factory mags that have a spring on the rear of them to eject the mag when you hit the release button on a gun that has the mag safety. Thanks. My mag safety came out but I'm glad the option is there otherwise. Back to the topic at hand. How loud and distinct is this click? When I perform the test on my FEG, it makes a "tink" but not what I would consider a "click". Apologies for the semantics, but I want a safe gun, and wasn't certain based on the dimmunitive noise when conductin the test. I don't imagine the sear slipping would make much more noise than I am hearing. |
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Originally Posted By DanTSX: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: Originally Posted By DanTSX: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By DanTSX: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. What is a mousetrap gun? There are factory mags that have a spring on the rear of them to eject the mag when you hit the release button on a gun that has the mag safety. Thanks. My mag safety came out but I'm glad the option is there otherwise. Back to the topic at hand. How loud and distinct is this click? When I perform the test on my FEG, it makes a "tink" but not what I would consider a "click". Apologies for the semantics, but I want a safe gun, and wasn't certain based on the dimmunitive noise when conductin the test. I don't imagine the sear slipping would make much more noise than I am hearing. From the one of my guns that does it, it's a slight "tink". See if you can visibly SEE the sear, and check to see if it is anything other than a mirror-smooth surface in front of the hammer after the "tink" sound. Mine wasn't, a "side" of the sear appeared. |
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Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter:
Originally Posted By DanTSX:
Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
The only question I have is why hasn't FN removed the magazine safety from the gun? Nobody wants it. I would suspect that current fn hi power volume is still driven by the worldwide military and police sales of it, and therefore subject to 60+ years of armorers and training doctrine that would go against it. I'm sure liability and lack of interest cover the rest of the field. The mag safety IMO is kind of silly, considering that the mag does not even drop away. It's a problem easily fixed by a set of punches, some pb blaster, and a hammer. Or the mousetrap mags. What is a mousetrap gun? There are factory mags that have a spring on the rear of them to eject the mag when you hit the release button on a gun that has the mag safety. Thanks. My mag safety came out but I'm glad the option is there otherwise. Back to the topic at hand. How loud and distinct is this click? When I perform the test on my FEG, it makes a "tink" but not what I would consider a "click". Apologies for the semantics, but I want a safe gun, and wasn't certain based on the dimmunitive noise when conductin the test. I don't imagine the sear slipping would make much more noise than I am hearing. From the one of my guns that does it, it's a slight "tink". See if you can visibly SEE the sear, and check to see if it is anything other than a mirror-smooth surface in front of the hammer after the "tink" sound. Mine wasn't, a "side" of the sear appeared. I'll check on that tonight. Again, thanks for the info. The only time this gun will be loaded will be on the range so I'm not to worried about the slight chance of the hammer falling accidentally. If this was a carry gun, I'd have it checked out or upgraded to the C&S hammer/sear kit ASAP. I can't imagine carrying anything other than a Glock, but the custom BHP's from Novak, C&S, Yost, etc, etc, sure have me drooling.  Really liking how these handle. I know if I ever picked up a custom, I'd not be able to put it down again.
Wow! these things have a goofy trigger linkage!
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Originally Posted By MrBear80229:
Originally Posted By Tirador223:
As an old high Power fan from way back, can you tell us why you feel a resurgence in interest? I'm curious as I have always felt like dinosaur at pistol classes I have taken with my bhp. I've gotten the same sort of responses but the jokesters usually clam up when A. their pistols fail while my BHP keeps on spitting out lead. and B. I shoot as good if not better then most of them. When the prices of well used BHPs were what you could get a new Glock or XD for, people would opt for the "new" polymer gun. With the flood of Israeli HPs that hit the market starting a few years ago, the prices of a HP came down. Now you could scratch that HP itch for $300. That, combined with the fact that it is much easier to shoot a HP well than it is a Glock (as in "Ahhh, now I remember what a single action feels like"), more people are "rediscovering" the old dog. Having said that, if I'm shooting for trophies and accolades, I'm shooting the HP. If I'm shooting in defense of life and limb, I'm still taking the Glock. |
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