Kudos for Kel-Tec, Potential DANGER for MagSafe customers - Gun Destroyed! [BIG PICTURE WARNING] (Page 2 of 2)
| I own and carry a P11 and a P32. Both pistols are accurate and completely reiliable. I tried to fire some +P 9MM out of my P11 and caused the trigger return bar spring to come out on the third shot. I would not feel comfortable in using anything other than normal or regular loaded ammunition. |
" factor. Glad your OK. I am a long time firearm owner and have just gotten my first kel tec. YEAH! Good stuff.
| This is the second incident i"ve seen of someone shooting hot ammo through a Kel-tec and it comming apart. They are pretty decent guns, ( I've got a P3AT) but just don't use +P ammo. Sounds like a simple solution. Any top shelf hollowpoint shoud serve you well. I still have some Magsafe around somewhere in 38 Special, who knows if I'll ever use it. I just find it funny that a lot of shooters are still looking for the "magic bullet" instead of relying on good training and practice. Hell, a .22lr is capable of stopping a threat. |
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I love my P11. One of the best values out there IMHO. It's funny because I'm kind of an 'old school' 1911 guy, but the more I hear about Kel Tec the more I like. I've been thinking about adding a PF9 and P3AT to the stable, my mind is definitely made up now. |
“Never give in, never give in, never; never; never; never - in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense” - Winston Churchill
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Originally Posted By MaverickMkii:
Wow I was on the fence between Kahr and Kel-Tec for a mouse gun as well. Guess which one I'm buying now?  I did it the ARFCOM way and have both. The P3AT is a first gen one I've had for many years. The Kahr is much more solid feeling in operation, but also slightly bulkier and a little heavier. |
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My dealings with Kel-Tec have been extremely positive to date. Most were simply technical questions - these were addressed quickly, in a friendly manner, and by a knowledgeable representative. One call was to request updated parts (2nd gen mag followers and mag release button for a PF-9). The rep asked me for a shipping address and told the requested parts would ship that day. Three days later I received the requested parts with a thanking me for supporting Kel-Tec.
My PF-9 has sent close to 2,000 rounds (of a wide variety of 9mm ammunition) downrange and has never malfunctioned. I purchased the PF-9 based on a family members positive experience with his. I had some doubts about the PF-9's reliability based on mixed reports early in production and the very low purchase price but these were soon quelled. After 500 rounds of flawless performance while training with the PF-9 I switched out my daily CCW for the PF-9. I've been training regularly with it and carrying it daily for a few years now and I trust it with my life and the lives of my loved ones, and with no less confidence than i have in other CCW's I've employed. The PF-9's size and weight makes it easy to carry concealed in almost any attire. I dislike the trigger and don't really enjoy shooting the PF-9 but I shoot effectively with it. No need or desire to like shooting with it - it's a tool not a range gun. I'm very satisfied with my PF-9 and with Kel-Tec's support & customer service! |
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I have been overloading handloads to see what happens for the 13 years I have been handloading.
I own hundreds of guns, but I have focused hardest on overloading Kel-Tecs. The Kel-Tec P3AT has problems with hot loads: 1) Chamber support is compromised by the feed ramp that intrudes, .270" from the breech face. This can be measured by putting a case in the barrel and scribing a line with a needle onto the brass by following along the feed ramp. Similarly it can be measured by threshold overloading the gun and measuring the distance from the case head to the end of the case bulge with calipers under magnification. The bulge measurement will show up to 0.010" more intrusion, due to differences in case length. 2) The chamber walls are only 0.030" thick. Kel-Tec has taken it down, but they at one time had the P32 barrel making process on their web site. They showed 4140 steel heat treated to RC47, which would be ~ 200 ksi steel. The thin chamber walls cannot be tested, because the poor case support will fail first in a work up. 3) [The Slide mass] * [recoil spring force] * [slide travel distance] * [fraction of recoil coupled to the slide relative to the frame] product is too small to deal with hot recoiling ammo without the slide slamming the frame. 4) The frame area in contact with the hand for coupling recoil is small. Because of this when I group 380 pistols into 3 groups of how much power is possible, the Kel-Tec P3AT is at the bottom of the worst group. The most power I can get out of a P3AT is 90 gr Gold Dot 1100 fps average with 6.2 gr Power Pistol .970" over all length. 
Here we see the effect of the first problem. 
Here we see the effect of a P3AT ejected case ricocheting off the wall and hitting me in the head. This is an effect of the third problem, the slide velocity relative to the frame at the time of ejection, is too high. With a bigger heavier longer barrel 380, I have got 1187 fps with 158 gr bullet. That is the top of the highest class of 380 power. |
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Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Kel-Tec will definitely be getting some of my money this year. I have heard nothing but good things about their products and their customer service. You havent read here very much then. Their products are innovative and very value conscious but hit mor miss quality wise. You stand about equal chances getting a bad one as you do a good one. Their CS is defnitely a model in the industry from what I have seen. |
Thats the screwin' ya got for the screwin' ya gave....ME
If you want to drop mother fuckers in their tracks you need a big gun.-VBC
If you want to drop mother fuckers in their tracks you need a big gun.-VBC
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Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
You havent read here very much then. Their products are innovative and very value conscious but hit mor miss quality wise. You stand about equal chances getting a bad one as you do a good one. Their CS is defnitely a model in the industry from what I have seen. Originally Posted By gotuonpaper:
Originally Posted By dalesimpson:
Kel-Tec will definitely be getting some of my money this year. I have heard nothing but good things about their products and their customer service. You havent read here very much then. Their products are innovative and very value conscious but hit mor miss quality wise. You stand about equal chances getting a bad one as you do a good one. Their CS is defnitely a model in the industry from what I have seen. His quote was from 2006. |
You did good work and now we wait.....................until midnight..................... although I won't be up to see anything at that time and it will have to wait until the morning." EdAvilaSr
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Clarkma,
Your pic says the case was fired in an LCP, not a Kel-Tec..... Anyway, OP I'm glad you're ok. Hot-loads should not be used in the small pocket autos IMHO. I'm glad Kel-Tec made it right though. I've noticed that the gun companies that have CS like that are often the ones with QC issue, much like Kel-Tec has battled in the past. They have to be able to respond like they do, otherwise they might lose customers for good. The small Kel-Tecs are good for what they do, but the QC issues are still there. |
| My son had a Springfield 40 cal do darn near the same thing. I personally think it's poor QC on the ammo manfactures part. I had my 629 ?S&W lock up with Winchester white box because the bullets weren't crimped worth a hoot. and the bullet walked out of the case and hung up on the forcing cone. This sin't the first time I've heard of a Keltec go off out of battery. I've got a RFB and on another forum a fella has some pics and a detailed on his KaBoom. The rifle preformed just as it was designed to if it goes off OOB. The plate between his cheek and shell held just as it was suppose to. All the gas vented out the magazine. |