Posted: 12/9/2009 2:24:35 PM EDT
The PMR-30 is a light weight, full size pistol chambered for the flat-shooting .22Magnum cartridge (.22WMR). The PMR-30 operates on a unique hybrid blowback/locked-breech system. This operation system allows for the use of a wide variety of ammunition as it seamlessly adjusts between locked breach and blowback operation, depending on the pressure of the cartridge. It uses a double stack magazine of a new design that holds 30 rounds and fits completely in the grip of the pistol. The trigger is a crisp single action with an over-travel stop. The manual safety is a thumb activated ambidextrous safety lever (up for SAFE, down for FIRE). The slide locks back after the last shot and a manual slide lock lever is also provided. The light, crisp trigger pull and fiber optic sights make the PMR-30 ideal for target shooting and hunting small game. Slide and barrel are 4140 steel, frame is 7075 aluminum. Grip, slide cover, trigger, mag release, and safety levers are glass reinforced Nylon (Zytel), much like other Kel-Tec Pistols. Magazine is Also Zytel and holds 30 rounds, with round count ports. Other features include: dual opposing extractors for reliability, heel magazine release to aid in magazine retention, dovetailed aluminum front sight, Picatinny accessory rail under the barrel, Urethane recoil buffer, captive coaxial recoil springs. The barrel is fluted for light weight and effective heat dissipation. PMR30 disassembles for cleaning by removal of a single pin. Expected Availability: Quarter 2, 2010 Expected MSRP: $415 Caliber: .22 Magnum (.22WMR) Barrel length 4.3” Length: 7.9” Height: 5.8” Grip Width: 1.1” Max width, across safety levers: 1.3” Magazine capacity: 30 rounds Trigger pull: 3.5 to 5 lbs Weight (no mag): 13.6 oz. Muzzle Velocity (40 gr): 1230 fps Made in USA More info will be available at the SHOT show 2010 Kel-Tec Booth (#2825) |
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) |
Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
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Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) Is this correct? I'm not an expert, but with a smiliar weight bullet, I imagine you'd be close in velocity. |
| I will buy one when and if they come out, I love it. to bad ruger won't make a MARKIII to shoot this and the .17 HMR. I am exited the buzz is big on this gun I have a feeling it will be hard to get one I might have my dealer order one as soon as they are at the distirbuters. |
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Originally Posted By qcka:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) Is this correct? I'm not an expert, but with a smiliar weight bullet, I imagine you'd be close in velocity. Both these are published velocity from Hornady from 16" barrels. Unless someone has data for both rounds from a 5" pistol barrel this is as close as your going to get. .5.7x28mm FN 40 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2034 fps Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. CCI Maxi-Mag 22 WMR 30 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps Muzzle Energy: 322 ft. lbs. Part in red should read FN5.7 is hardly the same as .22WMR |
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Originally Posted By SOC:
Originally Posted By qcka:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) Is this correct? I'm not an expert, but with a smiliar weight bullet, I imagine you'd be close in velocity. Both these are published velocity from Hornady from 16" barrels. Unless someone has data for both rounds from a 5" pistol barrel this is as close as your going to get. .5.7x28mm FN 40 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2034 fps Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. CCI Maxi-Mag 22 WMR 30 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps Muzzle Energy: 322 ft. lbs. Part in red should read FN5.7 is hardly the same as .22WMR I think the comparison would be more valid if you bothered to actually get comparable bullet weights. CCI Maxi-Mag .22 WMR 40GR JHP Muzzle Velocity: 1875fps Muzzle Energy: 312 ft lbs. Of course, you will note that the CCI numbers manage to make a slower bullet of the same weight have more energy than the FN load. So, let's do the math. I get 367.37 for the FN load, and 312.18 for the CCI WMR load. Elite claims a 40gr bulllet is reaching 2080 out of the 5" FiveseveN pistol, BTW. |
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Originally Posted By Toiyabe66:
Originally Posted By SOC:
Originally Posted By qcka:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) Is this correct? I'm not an expert, but with a smiliar weight bullet, I imagine you'd be close in velocity. Both these are published velocity from Hornady from 16" barrels. Unless someone has data for both rounds from a 5" pistol barrel this is as close as your going to get. .5.7x28mm FN 40 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2034 fps Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. CCI Maxi-Mag 22 WMR 30 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps Muzzle Energy: 322 ft. lbs. Part in red should read FN5.7 is hardly the same as .22WMR I think the comparison would be more valid if you bothered to actually get comparable bullet weights. CCI Maxi-Mag .22 WMR 40GR JHP Muzzle Velocity: 1875fps Muzzle Energy: 312 ft lbs. Of course, you will note that the CCI numbers manage to make a slower bullet of the same weight have more energy than the FN load. So, let's do the math. I get 367.37 for the FN load, and 312.18 for the CCI WMR load. Elite claims a 40gr bulllet is reaching 2080 out of the 5" FiveseveN pistol, BTW. Elite is custom loaded ammo. Don't think so? Go order some. The little shop they load it at can't keep up with orders. Meanwhile 22 HMR is cheaper and more available. Also published velocity for Elite ammo is a little optimistic. Optomistic Elite AMMUNITION BULLET WEIGHT Elite ClaimsGB VELOCITY Elite PenetraTOR 55 (Not Published on Elite website) 1464 Elite ProtecTOR 40––––––––––––––––––2,080––––––––––––––––––2009 Elite VarminTOR 36––––––––––––––––––2,100––––––––––––––––––2104 Elite Ultra RapTOR 28––––––––––––––––2600––––––––––––––––––2518 Elite IlluminaTOR 53.5 (Not Published on Elite website) 1470 I think Elite shot a 5-10 round string through the crony and took the fastest. However Hornady low balls on the advertised velocity like they shot a 5-10 round string and took the lowest. Also the 22HMR is not loaded for pistols it's loaded for rifles. |
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Originally Posted By SOC:
Originally Posted By Toiyabe66:
Originally Posted By SOC:
Originally Posted By qcka:
Originally Posted By chibajoe:
Expect to see it available in 2015
ETA: No matter how you slice it, .22WMR is hardly the same as FN5.7 (and I'm no fan of the 5.7) Is this correct? I'm not an expert, but with a smiliar weight bullet, I imagine you'd be close in velocity. Both these are published velocity from Hornady from 16" barrels. Unless someone has data for both rounds from a 5" pistol barrel this is as close as your going to get. .5.7x28mm FN 40 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2034 fps Muzzle Energy: 256 ft. lbs. CCI Maxi-Mag 22 WMR 30 Grain Hornady V-Max Muzzle Velocity: 2200 fps Muzzle Energy: 322 ft. lbs. Part in red should read FN5.7 is hardly the same as .22WMR I think the comparison would be more valid if you bothered to actually get comparable bullet weights. CCI Maxi-Mag .22 WMR 40GR JHP Muzzle Velocity: 1875fps Muzzle Energy: 312 ft lbs. Of course, you will note that the CCI numbers manage to make a slower bullet of the same weight have more energy than the FN load. So, let's do the math. I get 367.37 for the FN load, and 312.18 for the CCI WMR load. Elite claims a 40gr bulllet is reaching 2080 out of the 5" FiveseveN pistol, BTW. Elite is custom loaded ammo. Don't think so? Go order some. The little shop they load it at can't keep up with orders. Meanwhile 22 HMR is cheaper and more available. Also published velocity for Elite ammo is a little optimistic. Optomistic Elite AMMUNITION BULLET WEIGHT Elite ClaimsGB VELOCITY Elite PenetraTOR 55 (Not Published on Elite website) 1464 Elite ProtecTOR 40––––––––––––––––––2,080––––––––––––––––––2009 Elite VarminTOR 36––––––––––––––––––2,100––––––––––––––––––2104 Elite Ultra RapTOR 28––––––––––––––––2600––––––––––––––––––2518 Elite IlluminaTOR 53.5 (Not Published on Elite website) 1470 I think Elite shot a 5-10 round string through the crony and took the fastest. However Hornady low balls on the advertised velocity like they shot a 5-10 round string and took the lowest. Also the 22HMR is not loaded for pistols it's loaded for rifles. All extremely valid points. I have my own lack of love for Elite, and I no longer own anything in 5.7x28. My first rifle was in .22 WMR, and I still have it, as well as more than a few others in that caliber. This handgun looks like a modernized Grendel P-30, and as such, I'll be buying one. I just think it's disingenuous to compare ammunition that is not comparable, like in bullet weight, the energy figures given were mathematically incorrect, and as such I felt some clarification was needed. Frankly, based on my own testing, with both a PS90 and a FiveseveN pistol, as well as my beloved 9422 and Ruger Single Six in .22 WMR, there is not a huge amount of difference in the performance of the two rounds in factory loadings. I did find that I could load the 5.7 hotter than I could get WMR in a box, and I believe it will be more reliable in an auto-loader as a result of its rimless case. My own personal opinion is that both of those rounds, and other PDW rounds like HK's 4.7mm are inadequate for anything other than small-game, and do nothing in a rifle platform for serious work that an SBR AR can not do, excepting the tiny package considerations of the P90. Take that for what it's worth. |
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BCM has continually provided me with the best customer service I have ever experienced, and products to match.
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| I think it's awesome, but it's no 5.7 (a round I actually dislike) - Kel-Tec's published muzzle velocity for that thing is 1,230 fps. |
Order some golf shoes... otherwise we'll never get out of this place alive
.308- because people have a strange tendency to get behind things when you start shooting at them.
.308- because people have a strange tendency to get behind things when you start shooting at them.
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.22mag out of a pistol barrel looses a lot of velocity. I'd bet those velocity numbers in the previous posts are from rifle length barrels.
Its a neat looking gun. I'd like to try one if they ever hit dealers shelves. .22mag is also friggun LOUD! |
ARFCOM - You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villiany.
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Originally Posted By SOC: I could buy this pistol and 2500 rounds of ammo or get just the FiveseveN. I have zero use for the FiveseveN and I think it feels like a very highly priced piece of cheap toy shit. At least with this the cost is low and ammo is actually available everywhere. |
Operation LARUEMINATI - SS17
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Originally Posted By 45FMJoe:
Originally Posted By 53vortec:
I think it's awesome, but it's no 5.7 (a round I actually dislike) - Kel-Tec's published muzzle velocity for that thing is 1,230 fps. Regardless, it's still cool and cheap. 
Oh don't get me wrong, this is one is definitely on my 2009 to buy list, the .22 Mag is one of my favorites. |
Order some golf shoes... otherwise we'll never get out of this place alive
.308- because people have a strange tendency to get behind things when you start shooting at them.
.308- because people have a strange tendency to get behind things when you start shooting at them.
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^^ Same here, except it won't be out until 2010
Looks like a great little piece. Can't wait to take one to the range! Heck, that might even make a decent summer carry gun. 30 rounds of 22 Magnum, while definitely not perfect, is nothing to sneeze at... I'll be buying one as soon as possible. |
:D
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Originally Posted By ag04blast:
Originally Posted By roadrash:
I expect it will be a jam-o-matic Why....please tell... I think he is alluding to the double-stack magazine with rimmed cartridges. It can be made to work (a la Bren), but will require some thinking. It's not something (double-stack rimfire magazines) that has a reputation for working well. |
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BCM has continually provided me with the best customer service I have ever experienced, and products to match.
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BCM has continually provided me with the best customer service I have ever experienced, and products to match.
DeHavilland Canada Fanboy.
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Originally Posted By Toiyabe66:
Originally Posted By ag04blast:
Originally Posted By roadrash:
I expect it will be a jam-o-matic Why....please tell... I think he is alluding to the double-stack magazine with rimmed cartridges. It can be made to work (a la Bren), but will require some thinking. It's not something (double-stack rimfire magazines) that has a reputation for working well. I understand those challenges but I dont expect it to be a jamomatic based on it being difficult. I own several Keltec products and have been very happy with their reliability and based on that expect a product in that same realm. |
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I lucked out and was visiting a local FFL when he got in the prototype for Oleg to snap pics of it for Kel-Tec. It felt good in the hand but I was hoping for a 5.7 after seeing it. I wanted a sub 1000.00 pistol to go with my PS90.
Coolest thing was the mag. It was "printed" on the 3D printer. It was functional as long as it wasn't loaded to cap. It was brittle. |
Warning: Opinions as expressed may not be humble.
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Swap barrel and shoot these.
Barrel and a different/modified mag and you could shoot 22LR, or .17 MACH 2. I'll have to get one and see if I can modify an existing barrel in .17 HMR, .17 MACH 2, and/or 22LR to fit. Between the lathe, mill and a 10/22 barrel it shouldn't be too hard. Maybe time consuming, but not hard. |
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Originally Posted By SOC:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By Essayons:
3 round burst? .17 HMR? Individuals cannot buy new machine guns. Mmmmm C3 MFR... That is a business. He can only buy it with a LE letter and if he gets rid of his license he loses the gun too. It is never really his |
SevenMaryThree:
That old adage "everyone gets cut in a kniife fight" applies to turtle fighting too
ANIMUS
Rude pricks need a serious traumatic life experience
That old adage "everyone gets cut in a kniife fight" applies to turtle fighting too
ANIMUS
Rude pricks need a serious traumatic life experience
About the same time as 357 Maximum.
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Originally Posted By eddiein1984: Two pages and nobody mentions the Grendel P-30? Originally Posted By Toiyabe66: This handgun looks like a modernized Grendel P-30, and as such, I'll be buying one.  |
You don't see things as they are, you see things as you are. ~Nietzsche
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Conviction is worthless unless it is converted into conduct. ~Thomas Carlyle
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Originally Posted By Essayons:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By Essayons:
3 round burst? .17 HMR? Individuals cannot buy new machine guns. It was a joke. I should have added a .
I couldnt tell because you asked in both threads |
SevenMaryThree:
That old adage "everyone gets cut in a kniife fight" applies to turtle fighting too
ANIMUS
Rude pricks need a serious traumatic life experience
That old adage "everyone gets cut in a kniife fight" applies to turtle fighting too
ANIMUS
Rude pricks need a serious traumatic life experience
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Originally Posted By SOC:
Finally something that competes with the FiveSeven . Way cheaper than FiveSeven.....and walmart has .22mag instock all the time.. whoops....Not anymore |
The wolves are all around and the sheep dogs are out number 1000 to ONE.
I love those odds ................ woof woof woof
I love those odds ................ woof woof woof
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It looks like a toy to me. It's got 6~7 visible allen cap screws holding it together and it appears to be made of 90% plastic.
What the hell happened to the standard "tool-less" take down in a firearm design? Fail. |
"Hey homie, is that my briefcase?" -- Vincent, Collateral
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Originally Posted By m4whore:
I find it doubtful the Kel-Tec will be the first company ever to design a RELIABLE double stack rimfire. That being said I sure hope they magically did, if so I will buy one for sure. m4whore Kinda like how the Grendel P30 was a reliable double stack rimfire pistol?
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Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
Before you judge someone, walk a mile in their shoes...
That way, when you do judge them, you will be a mile away, and they will have no shoes.
|
Originally Posted By SOC:
Swap barrel and shoot these. http://www.varmintal.net/17hmr.jpg Barrel and a different/modified mag and you could shoot 22LR, or .17 MACH 2. I'll have to get one and see if I can modify an existing barrel in .17 HMR, .17 MACH 2, and/or 22LR to fit. Between the lathe, mill and a 10/22 barrel it shouldn't be too hard. Maybe time consuming, but not hard. If they made it in 17 HMR I'd get both. I missed out on the Grendles and wont let any thing like that happen again. I've got a copy of my dealers FFL ready to go and plan to be the first kid on my block to get one. (or more) |
| That is a must own. I will save now. |
The 2nd Amendment is not about rights. It is about CAPABILITY. It is about ensuring the capability to respond to violence, and oppression. Not with 1 round, or 10, but with the full force of indignant violence deserved at a breach of our peace.
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Originally Posted By OdT:
As noted, it's gonna be loud. And I can't wait to get my mitts on one of them.  Spectre FTMFW! 
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"Putting all of these textual elements together, we find that they guarantee the individual right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation." - USSC Justice Antonin Scalia
| my magnum research Mountain Eagle is a 15 round double stack reliable 22LR |
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General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php
General education should not be mere training of the hands to work, but training of the mind to properly reason. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classed.php