Posted: 8/27/2026 5:24:54 PM EDT
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Good morning all, I have been a student of the 38 special for about 50 years.. I started shooting it in the early 20's and hand loading for it very soon after. As a result I have been in a position to see 38 special ammo evolve from round nose lead, to jacked soft point to all the machinations of hollow point, Be it jacked lead, all lead, all copper, so on and so on. I have also noted the changing methods by which ammo is judged to be expanding or not. Lucky gunner did wonderful testing of just about any ammo you could ever want for anything, (https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/). The FBI testing protocol being the be all and end all of ammo expansion. So from all of the data I have read, all the testing I have watched, and all the types of ammo I have fired into water jugs, drywall, lumber, dirt, sand, wet and dry newspapers my wife's frozen as well as thawed chickens I conclude the following, 1, a 38 special 158 semi wad-cutter fired from a 2 inch barrel at 38 special speeds will do anything a 2 inch snub nose can be expected to do. 2, shot placement is right up there with speed, weight, bullet design. 3, it can be hand loaded cheaper than anything store bought translating to more practice. there, i'm done. Rip me apart I can't wait. respectfully "T" |
Spot on, with one partial disagreement: shot placement should rank above the other factors.
I won't throw shade at you. Carried revolvers in the early 90's when I got into LE. 640 and 66 2" off duty, 686 on duty. Carried .38 spl +p+ in the 66 and 686. Never felt undergunned when I went out at night with the 640 and no speed loaders  . .38 spcl has put a lot of BGs to bed in the 70 years it was the preferred LE cartridge.
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My father has carried a S&W 38 Special revolver of various models since 1970’s and I’ve carried one since 1980’s. We’ve probably loaded about 100k rounds since 1970’s. Initially we loaded 158gr SWC with Winchester 231 to 820 fps and 148gr button nose wadcutter with Bullseye to 750 fps. These two loads were used for everything from hunting rabbits to local club bullseye matches. For self defense we used SWC load in K frame revolvers and Colt Diamondback/Python and wadcutter load in J frame and Colt Dick/Agent revolvers. These two loads were accurate and economical…in 1970’s and 80’s it was costing about $2 - $2.25 per box of 50 rounds using pickup brass and home cast bullets. Even today I keep 500 rounds of SWC load and 200 rounds of wadcutter load in ammo locker for emergency. I think modern factory JHP ammo might be a little more effective than my hand loads but I doubt not by much. Every day I carry a S&W model 38 in my pocket for 10-14 hours a day and it’s loaded with the wadcutter load. I never felt underarmed |
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Yes indeed, I carried a smith model 64 as a uniform cop for many years, never felt out gunned, confident in my ability, and faster on the draw. My department then went to Beretta m 92's then went to Beretta cougars in 45 acp. The 45 was nice but i retired a short time later. still packing the 38 however. |
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Originally Posted By 03RN: Yup 158gr wn swc from rimrock over, iirc 5g be-86, gives me 1k fps from my 4" guns.  |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
| On my all steel snubs, real Treasury 110 grain loads go into the cylinder. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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My S&W mdl 36 no dash is my constant companion. With a speed loader and or strip loader. I run Speer 125 GDHP+P. Gets the job done. The story was that it was a for show only gun and its previous owner neglected it for too long way in the back of his non dehumidified safe. That beautiful factory bluing got rust freckles and he was disgusted by the way it looked after that. He let it go fairly cheap because of that. I didn't mind one bit because I was going to USE it. Got it cleaned up and put it to work many years ago. It's still got the visible remains of the freckles. I don't care
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Madmac - Rochester PD? I used to live in south of Buffalo and attended the annual Rochester PD pistol match kwhen I lived there ( I escaped to AZ ,good on you for getting to TX) A great event to attend as a revolver fan is the Pat Rogers revolver roundup at gunsite in Paulden AZ. Annual event the weekend before thanksgiving. Great time to shoot and discuss everything revolver and reinforce it is still a viable defensive tool. At that event they do a bunch of penetration and expansion tests to the FBI protocol standard ( lucky gunner tests that are often cited are not the full FBI protocol set up) With a focus on snubs like J frames. The conclusion is at 2” snub velocities the best compromise is 148 wadcutters. Meets penetration standards, lighter recoil, shoot to point of aim or close and economical both as reloads ( I think my reload cost is about 8 bucks a box) and factory The golden rule of snub 38’s If it expands it won’t penetrate If it penetrates it won’t expand |
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Originally Posted By madmac58: Yes indeed, I carried a smith model 64 as a uniform cop for many years, never felt out gunned, confident in my ability, and faster on the draw. My department then went to Beretta m 92's then went to Beretta cougars in 45 acp. The 45 was nice but i retired a short time later. still packing the 38 however. Rochester? |
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I have a snubbie I love, 357 mag though I of course load and love to shoot 38 special. Based on Lucky Gunner testing, I determined that I would never get the 125 grain GDHPs to open at 38 special velocities, they are designed for full size 357 mag velocities. I then figured the 135 grain GDHP-SBs would be perfect, and seemed to need about 900+ fps to open up. Unfortunately, both the factory ammo and reloading projectiles were non-existent and backordered for years. I thought the then-available 110 grain GDHP-SB projectiles would be my savior, and at +p loading I hit 929 fps with 7.1 grains of Power Pistol. Perfect… not. I was extremely disappointed that they hit a full 6” low at 7 yards. Unacceptable. Great load, miserable POA/POI for the non-adjustable sights. Super lucky that out of the blue the 135 GDHP-SB projectiles appeared and I ordered 500 on principle. This past week, after tons of experimenting with primers, various levels of crimp to combat bullet pull issues, and a bunch of other stuff, I was easily able to push them to ~1030 fps with either +p, +p+ or mild 357 loadings (depending on your perspective) using both 2400 and N110. . All that said, my favorite proper 38 special load? X-treme copper plated 148grain full wadcutters, over 2.9 grains of TITEGROUP at a leisurely 598 fps. They shoot lights out accurate, have an extremely mild recoil, and leave clean holes in the paper as long as you use thick targets, otherwise they tear and look like they are keyholing. |