Posted: 6/2/2026 8:21:56 AM EDT
|
Currently I stock 124+p HST and these are loaded in my 17,19,43x and then I keep 147 HST in my APC9k and MP5 since they are subsonic and sound good with a can Am I realistically giving up anything by standardizing on 147s for the 17,19, and 43x? |
|
I standardized with 147 HST because I found I shoot it a little better, probably because of recoil impulse. Maybe I am loosing a little penetration. It's not something I lay awake at night worrying over. Edit: My 9mm carry guns are a G19 and 43X depending on the day. No problems with HST 147 in either. I usually use use PSA mags with the 43X. |
[NO TEXT]
|
Originally Posted By Vague: Whole lot of folks carry 147gr HST in both EDC and duty capacity. I'm only carrying 124+p because I have a bunch due to early rumors of 43x struggling with 147gr cartridges. I'll likely never run out of the 124+p so I'll stick with them. Funny you heard this rumor... I was at an indoor range (awhile ago) and the shooter in the adjacent lane was cussing up a storm. He was having all kinds of trouble with 147gr JHP in his Glock 43X. I think he was trying to shoot Hornady XTP (Custom?) which was insanely expensive, and some sort of Winchester 147gr JHP (Defender?) which was also expensive. I think his anger was more about the expensive ammo that wasn't working. He was having feeding issues from his magazines and horrific massive groupings at 10 yards. He came over and saw I was shooting JHP from my S&W Shield and asked if I was having any issues. I had not had even one issue with HST 147gr. So I inspected his 43X and I didn't see anything obvious. He wasn't having any issues with shooting 115gr FMJ but could not shoot 147gr JHP (not sure he had even tried 124gr JHP). So I loaded one of his magazines with my HST 147gr (standard) and he went back to his lane and shot the whole magazine rapidly without any issues (his group was still pretty bad - LOL). So I have at least anecdotal experience that HST 147gr is good in a 43X. |
| I can't speak specifically to the G43X and 147gr HST, but we issue 147gr Gold Dot at my agency and it functions fine in my G45, G17.5, G17.3, and G48 MOS that I have on the books. Seems fine in the other Glocks, M&Ps, and Staccatos floating around the Department, too. 147gr HST is what my wife has in her two pistols (G19.3 and G43) and we haven't had any issues... |
| One thing to consider is comped guns will prefer the 124 +p to make the comp work more efficiently (if you run any). I also find MP5 series prefer the hotter 124's un-suppressed. My old duty ammo was the 147 but have gone more towards the 124's in most handguns. 147's for suppressed. And weight is another consideration. 15-17 rounds of 147 will weigh slightly more than the 124's. Times that by spare mags on your waist. |
|
I love the 147 HST (I have a bunch of the old +P stuff). But I dont use it in my G43 since I had some problems with it in the past, especially using Taran tactical +2 mag-bases. Not sure why but I think the 147 HST is a little long. I have standardized the 124 HST for the 43 and 48. This was probably 10 years ago so cartridge length may have been adjusted and problem eliminated years ago. |
|
My Dept originally went with 147 HST in our G17 when we switched to 9mm around 2012 After a couple years we saw a marked change in a couple OIS and when we pulled the projectiles an armorer noticed a second canilure on the bullet. We contacted Federal and they said they added the second canilure to help with jacket/ core separation through auto glass. It significantly impacted muzzle to target performance. We conducted another full testing I was part of matching FBI protocols with bare gel, auto glass, sheet rock etc… What came out of that was a switch to 124+P HST for our Glocks and 75gr Gold Dot for our rifles. (Previously 55gr Federal Tactical) We’ve had a lot of OIS since the switch and the rounds do their job if properly placed. |
Surprise, Speed and Violence of Action
|
Originally Posted By MONGO45: My Dept originally went with 147 HST in our G17 when we switched to 9mm around 2012 After a couple years we saw a marked change in a couple OIS and when we pulled the projectiles an armorer noticed a second canilure on the bullet. We contacted Federal and they said they added the second canilure to help with jacket/ core separation through auto glass. It significantly impacted muzzle to target performance. We conducted another full testing I was part of matching FBI protocols with bare gel, auto glass, sheet rock etc… What came out of that was a switch to 124+P HST for our Glocks and 75gr Gold Dot for our rifles. (Previously 55gr Federal Tactical) We’ve had a lot of OIS since the switch and the rounds do their job if properly placed. MONGO, what were the changes (negative, I assume, if you switched loads) in terminal performance you guys experienced? Penetration? Expansion? Barrier penetration? |
|
Originally Posted By MONGO45:My Dept originally went with 147 HST in our G17 when we switched to 9mm around 2012 After a couple years we saw a marked change in a couple OIS and when we pulled the projectiles an armorer noticed a second canilure on the bullet. We contacted Federal and they said they added the second canilure to help with jacket/ core separation through auto glass. It significantly impacted muzzle to target performance. We conducted another full testing I was part of matching FBI protocols with bare gel, auto glass, sheet rock etc… What came out of that was a switch to 124+P HST for our Glocks and 75gr Gold Dot for our rifles. (Previously 55gr Federal Tactical) We’ve had a lot of OIS since the switch and the rounds do their job if properly placed. Originally Posted By MONGO45:My Dept originally went with 147 HST in our G17 when we switched to 9mm around 2012 After a couple years we saw a marked change in a couple OIS and when we pulled the projectiles an armorer noticed a second canilure on the bullet. We contacted Federal and they said they added the second canilure to help with jacket/ core separation through auto glass. It significantly impacted muzzle to target performance. We conducted another full testing I was part of matching FBI protocols with bare gel, auto glass, sheet rock etc… What came out of that was a switch to 124+P HST for our Glocks and 75gr Gold Dot for our rifles. (Previously 55gr Federal Tactical) We’ve had a lot of OIS since the switch and the rounds do their job if properly placed. Originally Posted By the_professional:MONGO, what were the changes (negative, I assume, if you switched loads) in terminal performance you guys experienced? Penetration? Expansion? Barrier penetration? I'm curious about what the current 147gr HST deficiencies were as well. I just purchased a couple cases of 147gr HST this year for suppressed HD use. I still use 124gr HST in my CCWs though. |
|
The second canilure caused the bullet to expand significantly less in both gel and a few OIS where solid torso hits were scored. They added it to retard jacket separation and it did that. Performance through tempered glass was closer to a bonded round like Tactical and Gold Dot. Unfortunately it negatively impacted muzzle to target performance without barriers. Everything is a trade off and in my personal experience from two fatal OISs where you hit them is far more important than what you hit them with. I wouldn’t go throwing away your 147 HST but it wouldn’t be my first choice for carry ammo. 124+P HST and Gold Dot would be my first 2 choices. The same ammo is other bullet weights would be 2nd place. |
Surprise, Speed and Violence of Action
|
I always thought the "old" single-cannelure HST from 20 years ago was perfect. It always seemed to do fantastic in every test. Then, the move towards penetration vs expansion started and that 2nd cannelure was added. AND velocity was slightly reduced by about 50fps. I never understood the move towards more penetration. I suspect it was due simply to trying to "ace" the FBI tests for barriers. Ive never heard of any accounts where the old HST under penetrated causing a failure but it got changed. The benefit for the 40SW duty loads (now largely replaced by the 9mm) is it really aced the expansion AND penetration and there was no need to tailor a load for one or the other. |
|
Originally Posted By MONGO45: The second canilure caused the bullet to expand significantly less in both gel and a few OIS where solid torso hits were scored. They added it to retard jacket separation and it did that. Performance through tempered glass was closer to a bonded round like Tactical and Gold Dot. Unfortunately it negatively impacted muzzle to target performance without barriers. Everything is a trade off and in my personal experience from two fatal OISs where you hit them is far more important than what you hit them with. I wouldn’t go throwing away your 147 HST but it wouldn’t be my first choice for carry ammo. 124+P HST and Gold Dot would be my first 2 choices. The same ammo is other bullet weights would be 2nd place. Now I'm wondering how 147gr Gold Dot compares to the new 147gr HST.  |
|
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:I never understood the move towards more penetration. I suspect it was due simply to trying to "ace" the FBI tests for barriers. Ive never heard of any accounts where the old HST under penetrated causing a failure but it got changed. Agreed. It really points to how govt contracts really do drive the market and the rest of us are just eating the scraps. |
|
Originally Posted By dmk0210: Agreed. It really points to how govt contracts really do drive the market and the rest of us are just eating the scraps. Yeah, testing is important but we need to peak in on reality once in a while, like MONGO's dept. looking at actual OIS and seeing something detrimental. If EVERY OIS was through auto glass or some other hard barrier, I can see the need to obsess over that metric. It does happen often enough in LE but it's nowhere near even 50% of OIS. It kinda reminds me of our education system that often gears too much "education" on standardized testing results that students, teachers, and schools are judged and graded on. Unfortunately, the real world does not always correlates with the testing. |
|
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Yeah, testing is important but we need to peak in on reality once in a while, like MONGO's dept. looking at actual OIS and seeing something detrimental. If EVERY OIS was through auto glass or some other hard barrier, I can see the need to obsess over that metric. It does happen often enough in LE but it's nowhere near even 50% of OIS. It kinda reminds me of our education system that often gears too much "education" on standardized testing results that students, teachers, and schools are judged and graded on. Unfortunately, the real world does not always correlates with the testing. |
|
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I love the 147 HST (I have a bunch of the old +P stuff). But I dont use it in my G43 since I had some problems with it in the past, especially using Taran tactical +2 mag-bases. Not sure why but I think the 147 HST is a little long. I had the same problem with my G43. 147 HST has been my standard carry round for years, but it would jam against the lower edge of the feed ramp in my G43. I think it's a combination of being a little longer and also having that sharp edge around the rim of the hollowpoint. 147 Gold Dots, which are more rounded, worked fine in my G43, so that's what I carried in it before I retired the pistol from my carry rotation. |
Joined:
Jul 2026
Posts:
4
EE: 100% (1)
MO, USA
| Before HSTs, we preferred Winchester Ranger Talons in 147gr, or if we went bonded it was preferable to go with 124gr+P. At least in our OISs, bonded 147gr loads only expanded in about 1/4 of the time when shooting through clothing. The 147gr HST seems to be even better than the old Ranger Talons. |
|
Originally Posted By MONGO45: The second canilure caused the bullet to expand significantly less in both gel and a few OIS where solid torso hits were scored. They added it to retard jacket separation and it did that. Performance through tempered glass was closer to a bonded round like Tactical and Gold Dot. Unfortunately it negatively impacted muzzle to target performance without barriers. Everything is a trade off and in my personal experience from two fatal OISs where you hit them is far more important than what you hit them with. I wouldn’t go throwing away your 147 HST but it wouldn’t be my first choice for carry ammo. 124+P HST and Gold Dot would be my first 2 choices. The same ammo is other bullet weights would be 2nd place. Meh, just push it faster   147gr HST from a .357 magnum |
Do Good
Be Dangerous
Live Free
Be Dangerous
Live Free
| They frequently do well on the ballistic tests posted on YouTube out of even 3" barrel lengths with or without heavy clothing. |
What it boils down to is that they fear an effective resistance to their power: So, Left in power=Guns bad, mmmmkay...?, Right in power=Guns good!-thskirk
|
Originally Posted By Linc5870: Funny you heard this rumor... I was at an indoor range (awhile ago) and the shooter in the adjacent lane was cussing up a storm. He was having all kinds of trouble with 147gr JHP in his Glock 43X. I think he was trying to shoot Hornady XTP (Custom?) which was insanely expensive, and some sort of Winchester 147gr JHP (Defender?) which was also expensive. I think his anger was more about the expensive ammo that wasn't working. He was having feeding issues from his magazines and horrific massive groupings at 10 yards. He came over and saw I was shooting JHP from my S&W Shield and asked if I was having any issues. I had not had even one issue with HST 147gr. So I inspected his 43X and I didn't see anything obvious. He wasn't having any issues with shooting 115gr FMJ but could not shoot 147gr JHP (not sure he had even tried 124gr JHP). So I loaded one of his magazines with my HST 147gr (standard) and he went back to his lane and shot the whole magazine rapidly without any issues (his group was still pretty bad - LOL). So I have at least anecdotal experience that HST 147gr is good in a 43X. |
What it boils down to is that they fear an effective resistance to their power: So, Left in power=Guns bad, mmmmkay...?, Right in power=Guns good!-thskirk