Posted: 2/19/2024 5:23:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: barrysuperhawk][Edited]
There are thousands of videos of non-US trucks going through damn near everything, here are some:  Failed To Load Title  Extreme off-road vehicles of Russia (Prt 7) In almost all of the videos of offroad trucks, non US vehicles are going through terrain that seems downright impossible on what look like fairly stock looking rigs. I get the "mission" of the average deuce or hemmit is wildly different that trucks that are expected to cross Siberia and I know that vehicle regulations also vary wildly, but is that it? What about heavy truck offroad racing? 6x6, 8x8 or 10x10 is there a reason we don't see more US trucks in international racing? ...and yeah, I know, clickbait title... |
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Originally Posted By Winkychevelle: Because we have roads. We also have plenty of capable vehicles when we need them but we usually only need them in some overseas shit box country those why you don't often see them state side The OPs vids were all .mil vehicles. The Oshkosh built MK-36 wrecker I used to run was a beast, true 6 wheel drive with full lockers every axle and a locked tranfer case, CTIS tire inflation, 3 winches and a crane. One of these:  |
USN Retired: APR 1988 - MAY 2008
"My center is giving way, my right is falling back, situation excellent, I attack." —Ferdinand Foch
"My center is giving way, my right is falling back, situation excellent, I attack." —Ferdinand Foch
 M35A3 Deep water fording  m35a2 deuce under water |
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Sounds like OP has never been on a ranch watching a cowboy chase a crazy cow with a one ton feed truck. The simplest answer is because not everyone films their truck in some crazy off-road excursions. |
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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Originally Posted By zercool: Because we baby our cars. Hell, watch OG "Top Gear" - the Botswana Special comes to mind when Hamster had "Oliver". They drive plain old cars through stuff I'd flinch about taking a 4wd truck through. Pretty much sums it up. I remember some oil field trash driving Lincoln Continentals up to rigs that were just roughed in with a D6. |
Chicken Farmer by choice hunter of shade tree's and hiding spots by nature.
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@barrysuperhawk You mean Raid trucks like this? Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Like Dakar T4 and T5 class stuff? You're wondering why more American mfgs don't compete? Attached File Like Rally it's not really an American thing. Euro divisions compete at times. These are full on prototype racers. Whether the old T4 race class or T5 support trucks (classes are different now). Mostly it come down to different needs. Tata and Kamaz originated as military suppliers. They (esp Kamaz Master team) were the top competitors for a bit. As much due to talent like Loprais and Chagin as anything. Brands like Hino, DAF, MAN, Iveco, Volvo, Scania all compete for visibility like Hyundai, Ford, Toyota compete in WRC. Multi-wheeled (6x6, 8x8) originated as military vehicles. I've had friends at Kamaz and a few other brands. Profits have dropped more than 25 fold. It's been tough for them since the ban and embargo's. Many of these China and Russian mfgs have State ties so it's seen as national pride. Chagin (Kamaz driver) has been awarded medals. So there's a lot more effort than the States and even European Commercial teams. Kamaz Master is still running non FIA event - Silk Way, etc but those are very limited. But the old saw "Worst roads, Best trucks" is prolly true. That and Kamaz has had money and will to back serious programs. Then success got them Red Bull money. Most of the other teams are more ad hoc and less Brand Works efforts. Indie teams mostly. Happy to answer what I missed your interested in. |
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| Actually that goes pretty far to my point, I love me some M35 deuce and a half, but I have a hard time imagining them in any type of truck rally race without major modification. Some of the newer US trucks might be able to hang. Maybe if you took an MRAP sized truck and built it without any of that heavy ass armor, it might be made to be competitive. And then there are the logging style trucks. |
You got gun law problems, I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but a ban ain't one. -Sylvan
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Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk: Actually that goes pretty far to my point, I love me some M35 deuce and a half, but I have a hard time imagining them in any type of truck rally race without major modification. Some of the newer US trucks might be able to hang. Maybe if you took an MRAP sized truck and built it without any of that heavy ass armor, it might be made to be competitive. And then there are the logging style trucks. A mfg in the States - let's say Oshkosh - wouldn't pull a chassis of any production line. The old T4 and now T5 comp Rally Raid trucks are like NASCAR. Attached File Attached File They are custom built prototypes, just like the buggies and T1 protos. Those Hilux that have won numerous lately. Not as close as the NASCAR Camry is to a production unit from Georgetown. Space frame, bespoke works suspensions, special high strength axle assemblies, relocated high perf engines - that have a cosmetic shell to aid in marketing recognition but have virtually nothing to do with the mfgs production trucks. Kamaz Master runs special DongFeng Cummins engines. Most of the others special race dedicated lumps. An MRAP wouldn't be used anymore than MAN TGM would. So whatever the mfg wanted to run in a top class they would fund and have built by one of the specialist fabricators (or develop in house) would be the example raced. |
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Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File This is one of Team McRae's service/support trucks from '09. not a "race truck", but still a registered competitor team. Only race competitors may assist on course. This was directly before the cross into Chile, about halfway through the race. Attached File This is one of the 3 McRae Enduros they were supporting. Allister McRae (Colins brother) and Chris Leyds here at Nequen morning time control for starting. That was a cool project that basically died with Colin. The idea was a very capable semi-commercial buggy (using mainly production and off the shelf parts) that was close to production class costs but with WAY more suspension. The prod classes beat you to fucking death. not like Class 11 Bugs (FML never) but the protos are so much less exhausting. ASO and McRae had hoped to expand competitors buy offering a turn key operation or would sell the units to privateers as a more economical option. Attached File After being stored since Dakar SA it was offered last year - I think around 60k GBP. Not a lot of options for it but it qualifies for Dakar Classic in 4-5 years. It's rough and little upside/appreciation but a cool example I was tempted by. It like many are commercial MAN TGM truck with some prep. Military FMTV's - like Oshkosh and Monterra - are more capable stock. Most of Detroits medium duty 4WD work trucks sacrifice articulation for payload and durability. But i see lot of on site maintenance and service trucks on unimproved cuts and in construction morasses. But as noted above generally the MO is cut in roads if needed. There's bigger workshop and supply trucks that transit from bivouac to bivouac but dont pass through time controls, specials or go cross country (mostly) Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File You also get technician and personnel transport vans because the biv relocates almost every night for 20 days. They move less now that the race is in KSA Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk: Actually that goes pretty far to my point, I love me some M35 deuce and a half, but I have a hard time imagining them in any type of truck rally race without major modification. Some of the newer US trucks might be able to hang. Maybe if you took an MRAP sized truck and built it without any of that heavy ass armor, it might be made to be competitive. And then there are the logging style trucks. Nothing can race without major modifications especially a heavy ass truck. For the most part all the big racing is done with dedicated race vehicles. Desert racing evolved into a huge sport so we ended up with Trophy Trucks or Pro 4. My understanding is that a lot of the big trucks evolved as support vehicles in the bigger races because it was basically a workaround to the rules against support vehicles. Races like Dakar have teams with crazy budgets. |
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People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: Nothing can race without major modifications especially a heavy ass truck. For the most part all the big racing is done with dedicated race vehicles. Desert racing evolved into a huge sport so we ended up with Trophy Trucks or Pro 4. My understanding is that a lot of the big trucks evolved as support vehicles in the bigger races because it was basically a workaround to the rules against support vehicles. Races like Dakar have teams with crazy budgets. Dakar has evolved since Thierry's early rules. Back then it was more a free for all. The trucks raced but the team support had to race too because you had to be a competitor to get access to the bivouac, evac, insurances, fuel etc. Africa Dakar was a lot different, esp early. Later all that shit got codified into more comprehensive rules. Still need to be be a competitor to assist on course, but other support can move direcly to bivouc for overnight service and for teams with lodges (RVs) sleeping quarters. Race provide catering, bathing, fuel, oil lab and there's pay for service vendors for tires etc. for the self supported/no assistance classes like Original by Motul, they move those competitors trunks (like a work box) to each biv. Motul also now supplies equipment as part of the entry fee and use of Motul's workshop truck and equipment. Other RAIDS are similar and the W2RC under FIA have consolidated/aligned rules since ASO is the governing body near term for all the events in the series.  When Monsters Tried to Takeover The Dakar - DAF TurboTwin This is kinda an iconic moment, but restrictions soon came in since . . .it was well past crazy. Vid gives feel for the open class era. Group B shit migrated to Dakar because reasons - money had been expended and a venue for a return on all that dev cost and effort weas needed. Plus Jean Todt needed a place for Puegoet Sport Team to compete. And vanatne and Ickx needed to drive. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File In South America there's a lot more infrastructure so you got stops like this as designated and sometime ad hoc service stations. Top is Tupengato Arg the next 2 are Uspallata Arg. Then the passes over the Andes into Chile until; the race looped back though Cordoba. Some of the pics are shitty since screen caps from my helmet cam. The last is Cristobal Guerrero facing and IIRC Juan Garcia in the KTM colors. Cristobal had a bad spill a few days later in Chile and went out of the race. Traumatic head injury and coma but recovered. Hes Oscar Guerrero's dad and now manages the Spanish World Trophy team so that was good to hear last year. |
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