Posted: 11/28/2024 12:42:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MTNShewter][Edited]
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Vets of ARF! I need to know if I need to go home and help my wife handle this. I have a couple more weeks I'm supposed to be away from home for work. Last time I was home we found this interdigital lump. Went to the vet, they took a sample and we all thought it would be fluid filled, but sample yeilded very little fluid, and showed bacteria, so vet put her on a once daily 14-day dose of antibiotic (wife will update me soon on the Rx). This was Nov 17, after two days of antibiotics. Attached File And now. Lump is relatively firm to the touch, and she's sensitive about letting us handle it. She takes her last pill tonight. Attached File Vet wants her back if the antibiotic doesn't help. Can we afford to let this go two more weeks? Dog is 11 years old, collie mix. |
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Our GSD had a very similar thing years ago. They drained and it came back, I think twice IIRC. Ultimately ended up removing the toe completely. I’d say she was about 9-10 when she had the toe removed. Healed up very quick and never had another issue, it had zero affect on her ability to run or move in any way. She lived until about 13. |
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@MTNShewter Honestly it could be anything from a benign interdigital cyst to malignant cancer. You really need to have a follow up exam with potential diagnostics like a fine needle aspirate and/or x-rays of the toe to see if there is any bone involvement. I can't say whether or not a week or two will matter as I certainly can't diagnose it over the internet but I would recommend your misses schedule a follow up for next week to further evaluate. I would NOT recommend the cut and drain approach as previously suggested, at least not until there is more information available. It sounds like your pup is uncomfortable and it is bothering her so I think sooner than later would be ideal. GL MegaTarsal DVM |
"she's not going to think that you've embarked on a secret life of crime... sketchy underworld figures, like gang members, cartel members, INTERPOL fugitives, and the lizard people.
And it's that last part as to why we need a vet. "L_JE"
And it's that last part as to why we need a vet. "L_JE"
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Originally Posted By 549: Thinking the same. Maybe it's just the pics, but those nails really look in need of a trim also. It's not just the pic. Her nails are terrible. Vet usually has to sedate her to get it done, so I have been committing to one nail a day to make it easy on the dog, and I've been away the last few months 
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Originally Posted By Blstr89: Our GSD had a very similar thing years ago. They drained and it came back, I think twice IIRC. Ultimately ended up removing the toe completely. I’d say she was about 9-10 when she had the toe removed. Healed up very quick and never had another issue, it had zero affect on her ability to run or move in any way. She lived until about 13. Got it, thank you. I had been fearing the effect of losing a toe. |
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Originally Posted By MegaTarsal: @MTNShewter Honestly it could be anything from a benign interdigital cyst to malignant cancer. You really need to have a follow up exam with potential diagnostics like a fine needle aspirate and/or x-rays of the toe to see if there is any bone involvement. I can't say whether or not a week or two will matter as I certainly can't diagnose it over the internet but I would recommend your misses schedule a follow up for next week to further evaluate. I would NOT recommend the cut and drain approach as previously suggested, at least not until there is more information available. It sounds like your pup is uncomfortable and it is bothering her so I think sooner than later would be ideal. GL MegaTarsal DVM Loud and clear. Wife and kid at home are sick, so it'll be a couple days but they'll take her in as soon as they can. Thank you, and everyone else for input. Happy Thanksgiving! |
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Update! It's grown a lot in the last couple weeks, and vet says it's a Spindle Cell tumor. They x-rayed her chest to see if there was any spread to her lungs, and they look clear, Quoted us $2600-$3800 (updated) for a board certified surgeon to take the two digits at a minimum, and a full arm amputation at a maximum. Any help on whether this is a good quote is appreciated! @MegaTarsal Attached File |
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Originally Posted By coldair: I waited too long and lost my Bailey in three months because I waited too long This is precisely what we're afraid of, and so sorry to hear it. We're doing this either way. Mostly wondering if a "board-certified" surgeon is necessary for these types of things. I am utterly ignorant on this, and want to know if we're being taken advantage of. It honestly doesn't seem so, which is why we're pushing forward with what sounds like her best chance. Also updated the quotes. Wife had the numbers wrong earlier. |
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My greatest dog ever ended up with cancer in one of his toes. Had to have the toe amputated. It was a struggle for the first few weeks. After it healed up he did fine for many years. Ended up living to be 13 years old. ETA- I was warned that removing just the toe could only be temporary and that the arm may need to go. My dog was like 10 years old when this happened so we opted for just the toe and see how it goes. He was a boxer mix, appx 65lbs. Prices you posted seem pretty good for vet surgery today. I spent more than that years ago for a single toe amputation. I can give you some great advice for after care if needed. Feel free to IM me. Here is my old boy. You can see his missing toe. RIP ole Wrig dog. Attached File |
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Hey, glad I looked back at this. Sorry to hear you dealt with this, and glad you had him for a while after the operation. We wound up paying about $2700 for a "marginal", meaning they took only the tumor and did not take the toe. They sent the removed sample away for testing and it is exactly as I expected - the sample is "dirty" from edge to edge. They opted to do the minimal and will likely have to do it again in the future. Gotta stay in business somehow! Anyway she's doing well these 7 weeks later, or so. Doesn't seem to be growing back. And we are giving her 1ml three times weekly dose of fenbendazole (fenben). Attached File Attached File |
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And here she is just post op enjoying some red light therapy. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By MTNShewter: ....We wound up paying about $2700 for a "marginal", meaning they took only the tumor and did not take the toe. They sent the removed sample away for testing and it is exactly as I expected - the sample is "dirty" from edge to edge. They opted to do the minimal and will likely have to do it again in the future. Gotta stay in business somehow! Anyway she's doing well these 7 weeks later, or so. Doesn't seem to be growing back. And we are giving her 1ml three times weekly dose of fenbendazole (fenben). Sorry for what your pup is going through. Are you saying pathology is showing margins being positive? If the case, what is the reason for not pursuing further surgery now? Wasn't the whole point of putting her through surgery so she could be cured and end the risk of metastasizing? I will opine that there is nothing wrong with letting your pup live out her days without putting her through all the invasive and traumatic therapies/interventions; it's likely how I would have handled if my pup. Perhaps I am missing some details, but this seems like they got a good chunk of money but didn't really get your pup ahead in any way. |
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Originally Posted By AaronR: Sorry for what your pup is going through. Are you saying pathology is showing margins being positive? If the case, what is the reason for not pursuing further surgery now? Wasn't the whole point of putting her through surgery so she could be cured and end the risk of metastasizing? I will opine that there is nothing wrong with letting your pup live out her days without putting her through all the invasive and traumatic therapies/interventions; it's likely how I would have handled if my pup. Perhaps I am missing some details, but this seems like they got a good chunk of money but didn't really get your pup ahead in any way. Hey, thank you. We were told they would probably take the toe unless there was enough tissue to get "good margins" (meaning enough buffer of non-cancerous tissue so that all the cancer cells are removed). When they say "dirty margins" it means there are cancer sells all the way to the outer edges to the sample removed, therefore there are still cancer cells remaining in the tissue left after the op. Seems the surgeon made the decision mid-operation to only take what she wanted to, and we were told later that if they were to have approached with 'curative intent' then they would have taken the toe, but she will have a better recovery this way. I was under the impression we had intent to cure the cancer with this one operation. So yeah, you're getting it right. They want to be able to fleece us again, or it sure seems like it. And we'll have to put her through this again. We'll be traveling somewhere else to do a more routine type of amputation for less money if this comes back up again. Lesson learned for us. |
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Originally Posted By MTNShewter: Hey, thank you. We were told they would probably take the toe unless there was enough tissue to get "good margins" (meaning enough buffer of non-cancerous tissue so that all the cancer cells are removed). When they say "dirty margins" it means there are cancer sells all the way to the outer edges to the sample removed, therefore there are still cancer cells remaining in the tissue left after the op. Seems the surgeon made the decision mid-operation to only take what she wanted to, and we were told later that if they were to have approached with 'curative intent' then they would have taken the toe, but she will have a better recovery this way. I was under the impression we had intent to cure the cancer with this one operation. So yeah, you're getting it right. They want to be able to fleece us again, or it sure seems like it. And we'll have to put her through this again. We'll be traveling somewhere else to do a more routine type of amputation for less money if this comes back up again. Lesson learned for us. Based on the info you are giving, it's not a matter of "if this comes back again"....your pup still has this cancer if the surgical margins were positive. Accomplishing the resection with "adequate good margins of healthy tissue surrounding the tumor" negates/minimizes risk of any undetectable, microscopic disease being left behind. The vet may have stopped short of amputating because they thought they got it all and genuinely hoped to preserve the toes, but the final pathology unfortunately proving otherwise. Don't fall trap to denial or false hope with regard to your pup's prognosis. Seek clarification with the vet that did the surgery or seek out another opinion; don't wait if you are intent on seeing her cured. eta: ACVS search engine to find Veterinary Surgeon in your area. Prayers out for you and your pup. |
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Thank you! But you're 100% right, she is not cured and what you say about the surgeon having hope for better margins is probably true. I should just ascribe mal intent like that, and I haven't accused them of anything directly. I'll use that site to look for alternatives too. Thank you for that. |