Posted: 2/12/2025 1:39:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: JCDenton0709][Edited]
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Originally Posted By Mooseless: How much of your job is really boring? Also, when someone is upset about the death of their father, do you say “What a shame”? It is often boring as any emergency service type of profession, its hot and cold really. Some days you're on the go some days you're at the office eating and watching shows all shift. We treat all family with respect and work for them to understand what happened and get them moving on to the next step of the process with as much information as they need. |
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Originally Posted By Colo303: What percentage of murders are solved? Many within the first week or sooner. Most homicides are between known parties and many have witnesses. I would state this would be referring to arrests of suspects, as to how the justice system shakes out, I'm not usually privy to those outcomes unless they hit the news, or I happen to ask a detective about a particular case we may have worked together on. |
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Originally Posted By BigBore45: Forensic vs death investigator? The title can vary depending on what type of jurisdiction you work for in what state. The US has Coroner systems and Medical Examiner Systems, in general we are called Medicolegal Death Investigators, but also can be called Coroners/Deputy Coroners, Coroner/Sheriffs, Justice of the Peace (some states they do this same duty), and also forensic investigators. The term forensic investigators is slightly vague and can refer to evidence technicians as well, but in most cases an official forensic investigator is an investigator from a medical examiner's office investigating deaths only. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King
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Are you sworn LE or more on the Medical Examiner side? Or, to put it differently, is your focus on details of means of death or who did it & arrest them? |
Feb 2025 It’s 48 to 0 and we’re only 2 minutes into the first quarter
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think.
There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
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Originally Posted By Jodan1776: Are you sworn LE or more on the Medical Examiner side? Or, to put it differently, is your focus on details of means of death or who did it & arrest them? We are trained at the state and national levels of death investigation and then also partially through the state LE academy. We are most of the time not sworn LE however we have former detectives and officers who come to our side of things on occasion who are able to still retain their status. Our investigation runs concurrently alongside the criminal investigation, both have different goals and objectives but have several crossovers, especially with the evidence collected, which includes the body itself, the most important piece of evidence. We decide the cause and manner of death, such as Gun Shot wound of the head / Homicide, or complications of a stroke or heart attack - natural etc. We have no official interest in the outcome of arrests or prosecution. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King
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Originally Posted By Colo303: Do you find that you are motivated differently depending on the circumstances of the case? I would say so. Many cases are "routine" such as natural deaths, however trauma cases like accidents, homicide/suicide, or unknown type cases have more challenges at times with the variety of scene conditions and tasks and are inherently more interesting. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King
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Are you familiar with the Ellen Greenburg case? She had 20 knife wounds and at least 11 bruises. Authorities said she killed herself https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/12/us/ellen-greenberg-death-philadelphia-cec-cnnphotos/ Have any opinions? Suicide or homicide? Who F-ed up? If this is too specific a question, my apologies! |
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Originally Posted By Princeton: Are you familiar with the Ellen Greenburg case? https://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2024/12/us/ellen-greenberg-death-philadelphia-cec-cnnphotos/ Have any opinions? Suicide or homicide? Who F-ed up? If this is too specific a question, my apologies! We have talked about this one for sure, there are a lot of variables that come into play here with information that's not being made available to the public. I have worked over a thousand homicides and suicides and have seen many untraditional and strange variations of both. Even have had people cut their own throats ear to ear deep, even though the trachea and arteries. These people were in a secure location with audio and video surveillance systems showing no one else present and still seeing it in person you wonder how it's possible. Motivated people, especially on substances plus mental health complications are capable of incredible feats when it comes to self-harm or harm to others. In her case, I would need to see the autopsy reports, how deep are the wounds, what are the angles presented, what wounds were actually fatal versus wounds that were not, and this is just the medical evidence. The LE side of things is the other side of the coin related to the location and events prior to being found. In many cases families have not accepted cases of suicide especially with odd or not at face value believable details and have paid thousands of dollars for secondary autopsies. These "paid" ruleings are often suspect just due to the nature of the pathologist being paid by a family to side in their favor. That all being said, again there are many details of the case in its totality that lead all investigating agencies to a conclusion, or to an undetermined conclusion. Therefore, it's very hard to provide any professional opinion without being there and seeing it all for myself. The public is only going ever be aware of maybe half the facts, even the family will be spared details of the case at times when warranted. These cases are always troubling yet polarizing for all of us on the outside looking in. In the end, no one agency is perfect, LE drops the ball on cases, ME offices drop the ball on cases, just hope they get to the bottom of it one way or another for the family's sake. It's hard but some cases are never listed as suicide or homicide, just left undetermined forever, without more evidence to provide. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King
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Originally Posted By JCDenton0709: We have talked about this one for sure, there are a lot of variables that come into play here with information that's not being made available to the public. I have worked over a thousand homicides and suicides and have seen many untraditional and strange variations of both. Even have had people cut their own throats ear to ear deep, even though the trachea and arteries. These people were in a secure location with audio and video surveillance systems showing no one else present and still seeing it in person you wonder how it's possible. Motivated people, especially on substances plus mental health complications are capable of incredible feats when it comes to self-harm or harm to others. In her case, I would need to see the autopsy reports, how deep are the wounds, what are the angles presented, what wounds were actually fatal versus wounds that were not, and this is just the medical evidence. The LE side of things is the other side of the coin related to the location and events prior to being found. In many cases families have not accepted cases of suicide especially with odd or not at face value believable details and have paid thousands of dollars for secondary autopsies. These "paid" ruleings are often suspect just due to the nature of the pathologist being paid by a family to side in their favor. That all being said, again there are many details of the case in its totality that lead all investigating agencies to a conclusion, or to an undetermined conclusion. Therefore, it's very hard to provide any professional opinion without being there and seeing it all for myself. The public is only going ever be aware of maybe half the facts, even the family will be spared details of the case at times when warranted. These cases are always troubling yet polarizing for all of us on the outside looking in. In the end, no one agency is perfect, LE drops the ball on cases, ME offices drop the ball on cases, just hope they get to the bottom of it one way or another for the family's sake. It's hard but some cases are never listed as suicide or homicide, just left undetermined forever, without more evidence to provide. Lots to think about, thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Princeton: Lots to think about, thanks! Originally Posted By Princeton: Originally Posted By JCDenton0709: We have talked about this one for sure, there are a lot of variables that come into play here with information that's not being made available to the public. I have worked over a thousand homicides and suicides and have seen many untraditional and strange variations of both. Even have had people cut their own throats ear to ear deep, even though the trachea and arteries. These people were in a secure location with audio and video surveillance systems showing no one else present and still seeing it in person you wonder how it's possible. Motivated people, especially on substances plus mental health complications are capable of incredible feats when it comes to self-harm or harm to others. In her case, I would need to see the autopsy reports, how deep are the wounds, what are the angles presented, what wounds were actually fatal versus wounds that were not, and this is just the medical evidence. The LE side of things is the other side of the coin related to the location and events prior to being found. In many cases families have not accepted cases of suicide especially with odd or not at face value believable details and have paid thousands of dollars for secondary autopsies. These "paid" ruleings are often suspect just due to the nature of the pathologist being paid by a family to side in their favor. That all being said, again there are many details of the case in its totality that lead all investigating agencies to a conclusion, or to an undetermined conclusion. Therefore, it's very hard to provide any professional opinion without being there and seeing it all for myself. The public is only going ever be aware of maybe half the facts, even the family will be spared details of the case at times when warranted. These cases are always troubling yet polarizing for all of us on the outside looking in. In the end, no one agency is perfect, LE drops the ball on cases, ME offices drop the ball on cases, just hope they get to the bottom of it one way or another for the family's sake. It's hard but some cases are never listed as suicide or homicide, just left undetermined forever, without more evidence to provide. Lots to think about, thanks! I'll second it that families are often really in denial that their loved one committed suicide. From direct experience, something like 80-90% of suicides we see are from people who never gave warning signs ahead of time, or at least the signs weren't ever obvious enough to make others think the person was suicidal. On the flip side, we had a fatal pedestrian accident with a guy who always claimed he was going to commit suicide. Watching the video, I think it was accidental. But many involved in the case think it was a suicide. No note, so it's ambiguous...but ironic that more than likely (IMO) the guy who always said he was going to kill himself wound up accidentally dead playing frogger. |
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Originally Posted By batjka104: Were you on "First 48?" I have not been on the show, but I have spoken to detectives on the show in bordering states on cases that we have had to work together on. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King
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What sort of mental health resources are provided to investigators if they have a hard case vs LE and medical First Responders' typical resources? Is it the sort of thing people can do for a while, or is there a known shelf life for one's mental health in the field? |
“This warship is sinking, but I still believe in anchors.” - Listener, “Wooden Heart”
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Originally Posted By rollpin: What sort of mental health resources are provided to investigators if they have a hard case vs LE and medical First Responders' typical resources? Is it the sort of thing people can do for a while, or is there a known shelf life for one's mental health in the field? Great question. It will vary from office to office however or rather be the responsibility of the investigator themselves to seek any assistance such as counseling. A county system versus a state system will also have different resources and different ways of accessing them. I would say for most people this type of work is not sustainable for the long term but depending on the varying degree of one's ability to one compartmentalize trauma, and two maintain a healthy lifestyle outside of work it's not impossible, but no one is going to come out unscathed. I've been in emergency services now for over twenty years, to include time in combat with the army as a medic back in the GWOT days, each thing, whether being an EMT, a combat medic, or now a death investigator has its own unique challenges and personal/mental hazards to navigate. I often compare the landscape of my mind as a complicated self-inflicted crime scene in itself. You have to be able to see the pitfalls and manage them best you can, or you won't do well overtime. None of the things your required to deal with or see are commonplace or natural therefore your foundation is key to coming out alive and maintaining any form of personality with a vigor for life. Our field is often misrepresented in film and tv, and the real ones of us are often overlooked in the grand scheme of the "true crime" world, so much of our support comes from who we have to our right and left day to day. |
"Only enemies speak the truth; friends and lovers lie endlessly, caught in the web of duty" Stephen King