Tomorrow, I wake up to fire 4 people. (Page 2 of 5)
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I understand that the end result can be the same. That doesn't make them the same thing. They are 2 different concepts from a legal and HR standpoint. |
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Originally Posted By GGF: Perp walked to the parking lot, dump their belongings in a box and mail it to them. Tell them it's nothing personal. ( or not )  My wife work at a place that tried that they changed their tune when the town cop told them they had to choices let her in to get her personal things or someone was going to jail |
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Originally Posted By C-4: HR may see a difference but otherwise same same. Next employer might also see a difference if they call for a reference and you tell them the person was fired instead of laid off. Really not the same. One implies poor job performance, stealing, lying, attendance problems, etc. which would be the employee’s fault. The other implies company ran poorly, restructure, cost controlling, etc… which would not be the employee’s fault at least not directly. One results in a negative stigma for the employee’s resume, the other does not. People who get fired almost never receive severance and other benefit packages after termination. |
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Next employer might also see a difference if they call for a reference and you tell them the person was fired instead of laid off. Really not the same. One implies poor job performance, stealing, lying, attendance problems, etc. which would be the employee’s fault. The other implies company ran poorly, restructure, cost controlling, etc… which would not be the employee’s fault at least not directly. One results in a negative stigma for the employee’s resume, the other does not. People who get fired almost never receive severance and other benefit packages after termination. Also someone who fucked up badly enough to get fired for cause may not qualify for unemployment benefits. |
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A lady at my wife's clinic where she works got fired during a meeting in front of everyone because she has a nervous laugh. It was deemed disrespectful towards the supervisor. Another gal got fired on the spot for eating at her desk. She is one of the people that has to answer the phone when the patients call. 😂. They don't have a specific day or criteria to fire anyone. You can get fired if your scrubs are too wrinkled. My wife damn near got fired for having a RBF. Shits wild. They have piles of money for attorneys so anyone that tries to sue or go through the state for help just gets buried in expenses. They pay more than the hospital and she doesn't have to work nights or weekends or drive 40 to 60 miles to work in another city. so she stays there. |
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That's always a crappy day, no matter what. Sorry dude. There is a train of thought that middle of the week is better for the employee sake for a layoff. The next day everything is open, they can deal with any insurance questions right away, talk to people they know about jobs, etc. |
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Originally Posted By OR15: I had an employee call me the angel of death because I fired so many people My nickname was "The Terminator" because they sent problem employees to me to run them out the door. I never minded, but they all deserved it. |
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Originally Posted By southerncross: My nickname was "The Terminator" because they sent problem employees to me to run them out the door. I never minded, but they all deserved it. Originally Posted By southerncross: Originally Posted By OR15: I had an employee call me the angel of death because I fired so many people My nickname was "The Terminator" because they sent problem employees to me to run them out the door. I never minded, but they all deserved it. |
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Originally Posted By OR15: I had an employee call me the angel of death because I fired so many people That was my nickname at work. If workers saw me carrying a cardboard box on a Friday afternoon they all scattered like cockroaches in a spotlight. |
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Originally Posted By tct1000: there is no way the WFH crowd can't feel like they're possibly on the chopping block daily I don't feel that at all, my output is seen every day, I have at least one meeting a day and I am in constant contact with the team as well as the Boss all day. What is the difference if i sit at home or sit in the office? Nothing would be different, meetings would still always be via teams, my work still only done on a laptop... |
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Originally Posted By Grumple: Oh really, tell that to those being laid off/ fired. It's the same damn thing No its not. One possibly affects your work record, and much harder to get unemployment benefits. Not remotely the same. Laid off is automatic unemployment for one thing. |
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The worst one ever had to do was just after college. I had maybe 3-4 years with the company and had moved to a new area. I had never been to the store, nor had I ever met the manager. I was told to fire him and anyone else that needed it. After I got a solid crew going, I could go home. This process took me about 3 months. I showed up on a Tuesday around 1pm, as I was sure the manager would be working - right? Nope, no manager present and the clerk on duty didn’t have a phone number for him. I called the home office and got his home address. When I knocked on the door, I could hear a small party going on. This was near Key West after all. Ended up working out fine, but it’s no fun knocking on a strangers door and firing his sorry ass. Probably not PC, but I never have a care about that. Glad I’m retired these last 12 years though. |
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22 weeks severance… yeah they’ll be fine if they aren’t retarded. I was part of the half they wanted to keep during a buyout. I asked for the severance package instead that the other half got, and they immediately walked me out the door. I already had my next gig lined up. They bought us specifically for their contracts I had taken in the Middle East, and they immediately lost them again after they walked me out. My customers asked me to start my own company, and not doing so was the biggest lost opportunity of my career. |
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Originally Posted By SystemFailCoreDump: But is it automatic to get unemployment if you get a severance? I was laid off one time and received severance. Unemployment was delayed until the severance payments ended. I found a new job before then. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By CavScout: You were not the only one who had to be the reaper. I also did not tolerate the un-reformable. Originally Posted By CavScout: Originally Posted By southerncross: Originally Posted By OR15: I had an employee call me the angel of death because I fired so many people My nickname was "The Terminator" because they sent problem employees to me to run them out the door. I never minded, but they all deserved it. Guaranteed they were the exact same knuckleheads when they were hired. The fault lies within the unreformed hiring system. |
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Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: “We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.” Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: Originally Posted By GGF: Perp walked to the parking lot, dump their belongings in a box and mail it to them. Tell them it's nothing personal. ( or not ) “We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.” Fix the glitch. It will work itself out naturally. |
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Originally Posted By fttam: Been there During Covid, I laid off 33 people in a day, like an assembly line. “Hey Bill, come into my office. I’ve got some bad news for you…….” Then “NEXT. Hey Tom, step into my office, I’ve got some bad news for you……..” It was brutal, absolutely brutal. Last year I had to lay off my personal secretary, and that was absolutely heart breaking. I don’t envy you, OP Good luck. I've had to lay off several secretaries, but only because it was affecting my other responsibilities. |
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Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Next employer might also see a difference if they call for a reference and you tell them the person was fired instead of laid off. Really not the same. One implies poor job performance, stealing, lying, attendance problems, etc. which would be the employee’s fault. The other implies company ran poorly, restructure, cost controlling, etc… which would not be the employee’s fault at least not directly. One results in a negative stigma for the employee’s resume, the other does not. People who get fired almost never receive severance and other benefit packages after termination. Last I heard is. Previous company doesn't say shit other than yes that person used to work here. Due to legal reasons. Not even sure they do that now. I just survived a layoff/reorg. Rumor is people got 1 month severance for every year worked. Lowest was 2 months, highest was 24. Plus full access to stock, pension, 401k. I say that because any money the company put in is locked for 5 years unless there's separation of employment. |
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I just got layed of from AT&T July 1st after 22 years employment. Something I have always been a bit worried about after seeing many lay offs over the years. The process was a bit insensitive, I suppose. But nothing to take personally, i guess. I am glad I contributed heavily to my 401k and other than my mortgage, I have not billed. No credit cards, or car payments or anything like that. I have about a million in my 401k, another 6 months pay and unemployment until the end of the year. I am only 56 years old. Not quite enough to retire for ever, but kind of close. Things will work out. Just another chapter in my life. Funny, they gave me my two week notice the morning I was taking my wife to the airport for her taking a two week trip to Jalan to see family. I didn't want to tell her on the start of her vacation, and not the day I picked her back up at the airport upon her return. I told her the day after she got back. I felt like I was keeping a dirty secret although I had nothing to be ashamed of. I wanted to spend the rest of the summer backpacking, but severely sprained my ankle the second week. Still wearing a CAM Boot after 8 weeks... |
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My understanding could be wrong but I believe the difference between layoffs and firings are if unions are involved. If you're not union and you get laid off, youre fired. If you're union you have a chance of being hired back after things pick back up, eventually, maybe, possibly. Where I'm at we refer to them as "involuntary separations" and you're gone. Ain't no layoffs. |
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Never fun. Best of luck to you and them. A close friend spent 15 years as 2nd on the HR totem pole for a huge company that cycles through tons of people doing work you've seen. (Whomever was 1st on the totem pole kept getting fired after 1-2 yrs so keeping his head down was probably the right call.) We used to hang out most weekends and each time it was a story about having to fire 100 people on a phone call, flying to a site to fire a team of 30 and having their manager ghost him for the meeting so my friend took all the blame, having to find creative ways to fire the right collection of people so they would be less likely to be sued for bullshit reasons. Terrible job. |
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Originally Posted By lokifox: Interesting thought experiment. What would I do if it were me tomorrow? I have no idea. Originally Posted By lokifox: Originally Posted By jerrwhy01: God, please let one of them be me! Interesting thought experiment. What would I do if it were me tomorrow? I have no idea. I'd start sleeping better almost immediately. |
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Originally Posted By jerrwhy01: God, please let one of them be me! lol this. More than the severance money, it would be a chance to take a break without having flaked out and quit a job after a short time (just recently started), and still bag a big name on my resume to show that I passed their interview loop |
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Fix the glitch. It will work itself out naturally. Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: Originally Posted By GGF: Perp walked to the parking lot, dump their belongings in a box and mail it to them. Tell them it's nothing personal. ( or not ) “We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.” Fix the glitch. It will work itself out naturally. Maybe ill set the building on fire |
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Originally Posted By glock27bill: I remote worked and got a phone call at home. Every manager I worked with who told me they would have gone to bat to save my position had also been laid off that round. The dark-humor aspect was a few days later I received a card from the Senior VP congratulating me on hitting my 10 year anniversary, and what a valuable part of the team I've been. You would think the guy's secretary would have waited until the dust settled. wry similar story. heading into my 10th year of mgmt, top employee, great culture… let go Sep 2025, 4 months before my anny. fuckers |
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Been there. Make sure they know of any and all resources provided by the company. Just deliver the message. Don't entertain speculation. Certainty of the situation helps them move on faster. I carried. That gave me certainty since our security people can barely get off the break room couch. |
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Originally Posted By bockpec: I disagree. There is a huge difference in several ways. Unemployment compensation for starters. How you appear for your next job also. Sure, but for the purpose of the thread I don’t think it matters. Telling people they no longer have a job sucks. I may be wrong, but I think that was the point the OP was making. It isn’t going to help to say “Look on the bright side, it was a lay off and not a firing.” Most people with half a brain know the difference between a firing and a lay off. Most people with half a brain also realize it doesn’t matter when you're the one telling people they no longer have jobs. |
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Originally Posted By C-4: HR may see a difference but otherwise same same. Originally Posted By C-4: Originally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Misleading title. “Laid off” does not equal “fired.” HR may see a difference but otherwise same same. Except its not. Typically, "Fired" is "for cause" and means no unemployment for you. "Laid off" means you are usually eligible for unemployment. Sorry, OP, that you have to do it. I've been on both sides of the desk during a layoff. It bites either way. But unemployment absolutely helped me bridge the gap when I was on the receiving end of that horrible news. |
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Originally Posted By bulump: I hear Oracle is doing a 2nd layoff…. first one was over email  They did that a week or two ago. Oracle sounds like kind of a nightmare for folks joining lately. I have heard that they switched to a 40/30/20/10 vesting schedule, where 40% of the stock grant vests at the 1 year 1 month mark. And they have been in the news for layoffs every 6 months lately, and the layoff criteria is rumored to be Cost Savings. So new joiners potentially have to get through two layoff cycles with that 40% vest putting a target on them |
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Originally Posted By AttachedFile: Last I heard is. Previous company doesn't say shit other than yes that person used to work here. Due to legal reasons. Not even sure they do that now. The 2 simple questions we ask always have been: "Did Bob Smith work at your company from X to Y dates?" and then "Is Bob Smith eligible for re-hire at your company?" If they answer the 2nd question (and they sometimes don't), that's a good and useful bit of info for obvious reasons. |
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Originally Posted By wildearp: I have seen the manager making the calls, get the same call after the firings.  They were kind enough to tell me I was going and then offered the choice if I wanted to tell my guys or let HR do it. I opted to be the one to make the call. One was planning on retirement and got a nice check to go away with. Everyone else was 3-4 months to land something new. |
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That really does suck. I've fired hundreds, and been fired a handful of times. Anyone that says 'laid off' is better has never had to explain the distinction to a single mother who is a great worker and is barely scraping by. Just be as kind as you can and take the heat that's coming to you. Good luck dude. |
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Originally Posted By Grumple: I've never dealt with this on a Wednesday. It's always a Friday. Odd, I know Originally Posted By Grumple: Originally Posted By Miles_Urbanus: “We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week.” I've never dealt with this on a Wednesday. It's always a Friday. Odd, I know In my experience, they do it on the last day of the set around 16:30 where they got almost a full day’s work out of them. I’ve had one supervisory position in my life, and employees can piss you off to the point where you want to fucking strangle them, but when it came time to cut bait it still sucked and I felt bad for them. Made turning valves and wrenches much more enjoyable for the rest of my career. |
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