This New Pyramid Theory Explains the Missing Evidence, the pyramids weren’t built, they were unbuilt (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/30/2026 12:50:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: brass][Edited]
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UFO Forum Rules - This is NOT General Discussion This forum has different guidelines than GD. -- brass Interesting idea. Skip to 10:30:  This New Pyramid Theory Explains the Missing Evidence Two years ago, I got an email: ten years of 3D models, diagrams, and calculations—and one line that rewired everything: “the pyramids weren’t built… they were unbuilt.” This video tests that “cannibal construction” idea against the big contenders: external ramp theory, spiral ramp sightlines, and Jean-Pierre Houdin’s internal ramp with the Grand Gallery counterweight. We explain muon tomography (a CT-scan of density) and the void above the Grand Gallery, then confront the Apex Problem—how 51.84° geometry, edge visibility, and workable 7–8% inclines make finishing the top so hard. Finally, we zoom out to the Giza Plateau as a closed-loop system: overbuild ? carve down ? reclaim stone, plus masonry clues like bonding/keying stones—and why “missing evidence” might be design, not decay. |
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Slaves, rollers, levers. Slaves didn’t build the pyramids. Even that is explained in the video. She presents a solid idea. |
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UFO Forum Rules - This is NOT General Discussion This forum has different guidelines than GD. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Slaves, rollers, levers. Originally Posted By R2point0: Originally Posted By Cooper1: How does this explain the stacking and transport of thousand ton stones from far away? The three things are kind of tossed around until you do the math: With the weight of a single block, averaging 2.5 tons, it would smash the trees into toothpicks after trying to have them roll beyond about 5 ft total travel, though if on sand, they'd probably be pushed into it and kind of vanish. Using a lever runs the same math, the lever itself needs to withstand the force of the weight of a block, and wood, again, would break. There are books contemporary to the Pyramid building in Cairo explaining how they pyramids were built dating back to that era, so allegedly perfect descriptions of how things were done, but they don't totally match, and also leave out the biggest issue: Purpose. No tombs, no Hieroglyphs, no "I made this!" king ego boosts as seen all over valley of kings and pretty much every other structure in Egypt. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
geopolymer makes more sense Geopolymer in Ancient Egypt - Megalithic Nubs & Scoop Marks Explained |
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Originally Posted By anothermisanthrope: UFO Forum Rules - This is NOT General Discussion This forum has different guidelines than GD. -- brass Interesting idea. Skip to 10:30:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5kWDOuY2UoTwo years ago, I got an email: ten years of 3D models, diagrams, and calculations—and one line that rewired everything: “the pyramids weren’t built… they were unbuilt.” This video tests that “cannibal construction” idea against the big contenders: external ramp theory, spiral ramp sightlines, and Jean-Pierre Houdin’s internal ramp with the Grand Gallery counterweight. We explain muon tomography (a CT-scan of density) and the void above the Grand Gallery, then confront the Apex Problem—how 51.84° geometry, edge visibility, and workable 7–8% inclines make finishing the top so hard. Finally, we zoom out to the Giza Plateau as a closed-loop system: overbuild ? carve down ? reclaim stone, plus masonry clues like bonding/keying stones—and why “missing evidence” might be design, not decay. It’s quite an interesting theory. Liked the video and it makes sense. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By brass: The three things are kind of tossed around until you do the math: With the weight of a single block, averaging 2.5 tons, it would smash the trees into toothpicks after trying to have them roll beyond about 5 ft total travel, though if on sand, they'd probably be pushed into it and kind of vanish. Using a lever runs the same math, the lever itself needs to withstand the force of the weight of a block, and wood, again, would break. There are books contemporary to the Pyramid building in Cairo explaining how they pyramids were built dating back to that era, so allegedly perfect descriptions of how things were done, but they don't totally match, and also leave out the biggest issue: Purpose. No tombs, no Hieroglyphs, no "I made this!" king ego boosts as seen all over valley of kings and pretty much every other structure in Egypt. The fact that there are approximately 120 pyramids in Egypt make it even more interesting. If I wanted to move 2.5 ton blocks, I would build round round wooden cases/cradles that the block could fit in. Think of the block being the spindle in a spool, or like a whisky barrel. Roll the block into segment of the case, then bind the rest of the cases around them. Then roll the blocks where you need them and uncase them. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: The fact that there are approximately 120 pyramids in Egypt make it even more interesting. If I wanted to move 2.5 ton blocks, I would build round round wooden cases/cradles that the block could fit in. Think of the block being the spindle in a spool, or like a whisky barrel. Roll the block into segment of the case, then bind the rest of the cases around them. Then roll the blocks where you need them and uncase them. The problem I have with that theory is that there was a shortage of wood in ancient Egypt. The problem I have with pyramid construction theories in general is that they don’t explain how pyramids could be built in 2 decades. Looks like they were multi-generation projects. |
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Originally Posted By grendelbane: The problem I have with that theory is that there was a shortage of wood in ancient Egypt. The problem I have with pyramid construction theories in general is that they don’t explain how pyramids could be built in 2 decades. Looks like they were multi-generation projects. Originally Posted By grendelbane: Originally Posted By sq40: The fact that there are approximately 120 pyramids in Egypt make it even more interesting. If I wanted to move 2.5 ton blocks, I would build round round wooden cases/cradles that the block could fit in. Think of the block being the spindle in a spool, or like a whisky barrel. Roll the block into segment of the case, then bind the rest of the cases around them. Then roll the blocks where you need them and uncase them. The problem I have with that theory is that there was a shortage of wood in ancient Egypt. The problem I have with pyramid construction theories in general is that they don’t explain how pyramids could be built in 2 decades. Looks like they were multi-generation projects. I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. |
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Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By grendelbane: Originally Posted By sq40: The fact that there are approximately 120 pyramids in Egypt make it even more interesting. If I wanted to move 2.5 ton blocks, I would build round round wooden cases/cradles that the block could fit in. Think of the block being the spindle in a spool, or like a whisky barrel. Roll the block into segment of the case, then bind the rest of the cases around them. Then roll the blocks where you need them and uncase them. The problem I have with that theory is that there was a shortage of wood in ancient Egypt. The problem I have with pyramid construction theories in general is that they don't explain how pyramids could be built in 2 decades. Looks like they were multi-generation projects. I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: And it doesn't scale. People like to use methods that would work up to a few tons to explain how 100 ton stones were moved and raised into place. "Oh they just used more slaves". Yeah, physics doesn't work that way. Originally Posted By Cypher214: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: Originally Posted By grendelbane: Originally Posted By sq40: The fact that there are approximately 120 pyramids in Egypt make it even more interesting. If I wanted to move 2.5 ton blocks, I would build round round wooden cases/cradles that the block could fit in. Think of the block being the spindle in a spool, or like a whisky barrel. Roll the block into segment of the case, then bind the rest of the cases around them. Then roll the blocks where you need them and uncase them. The problem I have with that theory is that there was a shortage of wood in ancient Egypt. The problem I have with pyramid construction theories in general is that they don't explain how pyramids could be built in 2 decades. Looks like they were multi-generation projects. I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Ironically "log"arithmic problem. 
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Originally Posted By sq40: Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. I haven't looked deeply at the problems with the claims that the ancient Egyptians had adequate boats to float several hundred ton stones down the Nile river, but I have heard claims that it wouldn't be possible. Just the quantity and variety of stones needed to complete the Giza great pyramid and its mount would be an effort that seems unrealistic to me. 125 stones minimum from quarry to job site, cut, fit, polished, lifted and placed every day for 50 years straight 365 days a year and you get one pyramid. 2 to 100 tons.  It's a ridiculous claim IMO. |
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Originally Posted By TLD05: I haven't looked deeply at the problems with the claims that the ancient Egyptians had adequate boats to float several hundred ton stones down the Nile river, but I have heard claims that it wouldn't be possible. Just the quantity and variety of stones needed to complete the Giza great pyramid and its mount would be an effort that seems unrealistic to me. 125 stones minimum from quarry to job site, cut, fit, polished, lifted and placed every day for 50 years straight 365 days a year and you get one pyramid. 2 to 100 tons. It's a ridiculous claim IMO. Originally Posted By TLD05: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. I haven't looked deeply at the problems with the claims that the ancient Egyptians had adequate boats to float several hundred ton stones down the Nile river, but I have heard claims that it wouldn't be possible. Just the quantity and variety of stones needed to complete the Giza great pyramid and its mount would be an effort that seems unrealistic to me. 125 stones minimum from quarry to job site, cut, fit, polished, lifted and placed every day for 50 years straight 365 days a year and you get one pyramid. 2 to 100 tons. It's a ridiculous claim IMO. Could tens of thousands of workers at the site, plus tens of thousands in other places in the country, achieve what you're imagining? They've found records from boat captains hundred of miles away detailing the stones they were charged with bringing to the project. They had an absurdly large number of unemployed farmers to help out as basic labor (unskilled) in the flood season. And an estimated ten to twenty thousand people living in the town on the plateau, with support personnel (bakers, brewers, butchers, etc.). It's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. We also have the "Lost Pyramid," which was built and then it's parts literally robbed for other projects in antiquity. There is an evolution in pyramid building in Egypt. It's visible. You can go and look at it, touch it, examine it. All these previous projects exist. In the end, they figured it out, and had hundreds of thousands of laborers, skilled ones year-round and unskilled seasonally, to build things. It happened. To spout nonsense like "they couldn't have done it without advanced tech," or "aliens must've helped," if just plain insulting to the ingenuity of our species. We invented steam power in the Roman era, we just didn't comprehend it's possibilities. The ancient Greeks worked out the concept of "atomic" theory. They also measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10%, among countless other achievements in math, the sciences, etc. The Antikythera Mechanism. Telling time with pressurized water in a fountain. Automatically opening doors to a temple when you lit the brazier outside. Literally a million other innovations and achievements. And that's just in Europe. Don't ever, for one instant, think you're smarter than the people who lived 10,000 years ago. You're not. You just have the advantage of standing on the shoulders of giants, so you can see farther. Get over it already. The Pyramids were built by human hands. They didn't write down exact instructions of how to do so (that we've found yet) because they didn't think what they were doing was special. It certainly didn't rank up there with the literal "God made flesh on Earth" who was telling them to do it, or overseeing them. Because religious superstition is kind of a thing among our species. |
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Originally Posted By brass: The three things are kind of tossed around until you do the math: With the weight of a single block, averaging 2.5 tons, it would smash the trees into toothpicks after trying to have them roll beyond about 5 ft total travel, though if on sand, they'd probably be pushed into it and kind of vanish. Using a lever runs the same math, the lever itself needs to withstand the force of the weight of a block, and wood, again, would break. There are books contemporary to the Pyramid building in Cairo explaining how they pyramids were built dating back to that era, so allegedly perfect descriptions of how things were done, but they don't totally match, and also leave out the biggest issue: Purpose. No tombs, no Hieroglyphs, no "I made this!" king ego boosts as seen all over valley of kings and pretty much every other structure in Egypt. There are physical and structural limitations for sure, but those can be worked around in some cases. Build a road from stone first, then use stone rollers. Now wood getting crushed doesn't matter. |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: Could tens of thousands of workers at the site, plus tens of thousands in other places in the country, achieve what you're imagining? They've found records from boat captains hundred of miles away detailing the stones they were charged with bringing to the project. They had an absurdly large number of unemployed farmers to help out as basic labor (unskilled) in the flood season. And an estimated ten to twenty thousand people living in the town on the plateau, with support personnel (bakers, brewers, butchers, etc.). It's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. We also have the "Lost Pyramid," which was built and then it's parts literally robbed for other projects in antiquity. There is an evolution in pyramid building in Egypt. It's visible. You can go and look at it, touch it, examine it. All these previous projects exist. In the end, they figured it out, and had hundreds of thousands of laborers, skilled ones year-round and unskilled seasonally, to build things. It happened. To spout nonsense like "they couldn't have done it without advanced tech," or "aliens must've helped," if just plain insulting to the ingenuity of our species. We invented steam power in the Roman era, we just didn't comprehend it's possibilities. The ancient Greeks worked out the concept of "atomic" theory. They also measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10%, among countless other achievements in math, the sciences, etc. The Antikythera Mechanism. Telling time with pressurized water in a fountain. Automatically opening doors to a temple when you lit the brazier outside. Literally a million other innovations and achievements. And that's just in Europe. Don't ever, for one instant, think you're smarter than the people who lived 10,000 years ago. You're not. You just have the advantage of standing on the shoulders of giants, so you can see farther. Get over it already. The Pyramids were built by human hands. They didn't write down exact instructions of how to do so (that we've found yet) because they didn't think what they were doing was special. It certainly didn't rank up there with the literal "God made flesh on Earth" who was telling them to do it, or overseeing them. Because religious superstition is kind of a thing among our species. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By TLD05: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. I haven't looked deeply at the problems with the claims that the ancient Egyptians had adequate boats to float several hundred ton stones down the Nile river, but I have heard claims that it wouldn't be possible. Just the quantity and variety of stones needed to complete the Giza great pyramid and its mount would be an effort that seems unrealistic to me. 125 stones minimum from quarry to job site, cut, fit, polished, lifted and placed every day for 50 years straight 365 days a year and you get one pyramid. 2 to 100 tons. It's a ridiculous claim IMO. Could tens of thousands of workers at the site, plus tens of thousands in other places in the country, achieve what you're imagining? They've found records from boat captains hundred of miles away detailing the stones they were charged with bringing to the project. They had an absurdly large number of unemployed farmers to help out as basic labor (unskilled) in the flood season. And an estimated ten to twenty thousand people living in the town on the plateau, with support personnel (bakers, brewers, butchers, etc.). It's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. We also have the "Lost Pyramid," which was built and then it's parts literally robbed for other projects in antiquity. There is an evolution in pyramid building in Egypt. It's visible. You can go and look at it, touch it, examine it. All these previous projects exist. In the end, they figured it out, and had hundreds of thousands of laborers, skilled ones year-round and unskilled seasonally, to build things. It happened. To spout nonsense like "they couldn't have done it without advanced tech," or "aliens must've helped," if just plain insulting to the ingenuity of our species. We invented steam power in the Roman era, we just didn't comprehend it's possibilities. The ancient Greeks worked out the concept of "atomic" theory. They also measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10%, among countless other achievements in math, the sciences, etc. The Antikythera Mechanism. Telling time with pressurized water in a fountain. Automatically opening doors to a temple when you lit the brazier outside. Literally a million other innovations and achievements. And that's just in Europe. Don't ever, for one instant, think you're smarter than the people who lived 10,000 years ago. You're not. You just have the advantage of standing on the shoulders of giants, so you can see farther. Get over it already. The Pyramids were built by human hands. They didn't write down exact instructions of how to do so (that we've found yet) because they didn't think what they were doing was special. It certainly didn't rank up there with the literal "God made flesh on Earth" who was telling them to do it, or overseeing them. Because religious superstition is kind of a thing among our species. Questioning the "they moved stones by rolling them on logs" nonsense is not the same as claiming "aliens did it". Please stop using that disingenuous rebuttal. Humans built everything in Egypt, it's the HOW that's fascinating and lacks a sufficient answer. The mainstream narrative is flat out bullshit no matter how many people they had working on it. The Pyramids aren't even the most interesting structures and considering the mind boggling number of structures, monuments, tunnels, shafts, obelisks, carved boxes, and random enormous worked granite blocks all over the plateau, the math simply doesn't work when folks claim "they just threw more people at the problem". Was every ancient Egyptian built like an NFL linebacker, an expert at carving stone, and could work 18 hours a day? |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: Could tens of thousands of workers at the site, plus tens of thousands in other places in the country, achieve what you're imagining? They've found records from boat captains hundred of miles away detailing the stones they were charged with bringing to the project. They had an absurdly large number of unemployed farmers to help out as basic labor (unskilled) in the flood season. And an estimated ten to twenty thousand people living in the town on the plateau, with support personnel (bakers, brewers, butchers, etc.). It's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. We also have the "Lost Pyramid," which was built and then it's parts literally robbed for other projects in antiquity. There is an evolution in pyramid building in Egypt. It's visible. You can go and look at it, touch it, examine it. All these previous projects exist. In the end, they figured it out, and had hundreds of thousands of laborers, skilled ones year-round and unskilled seasonally, to build things. It happened. To spout nonsense like "they couldn't have done it without advanced tech," or "aliens must've helped," if just plain insulting to the ingenuity of our species. We invented steam power in the Roman era, we just didn't comprehend it's possibilities. The ancient Greeks worked out the concept of "atomic" theory. They also measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10%, among countless other achievements in math, the sciences, etc. The Antikythera Mechanism. Telling time with pressurized water in a fountain. Automatically opening doors to a temple when you lit the brazier outside. Literally a million other innovations and achievements. And that's just in Europe. Don't ever, for one instant, think you're smarter than the people who lived 10,000 years ago. You're not. You just have the advantage of standing on the shoulders of giants, so you can see farther. Get over it already. The Pyramids were built by human hands. They didn't write down exact instructions of how to do so (that we've found yet) because they didn't think what they were doing was special. It certainly didn't rank up there with the literal "God made flesh on Earth" who was telling them to do it, or overseeing them. Because religious superstition is kind of a thing among our species. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By TLD05: Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: I always laugh at the "roll them on logs" folks. What damn logs? There are no suitable trees in that part of the world. Just 100 years ago 40% of Ethiopia was covered in forest. Sudan, Lebanon, Turkey, Greece. All accessible by water. We know Egypt built ships. Plus, 5,000 years ago the environment was probably a little different and possibly less arid. For a great empire like Egypt, aquiring wood wouldn't be a problem. I haven't looked deeply at the problems with the claims that the ancient Egyptians had adequate boats to float several hundred ton stones down the Nile river, but I have heard claims that it wouldn't be possible. Just the quantity and variety of stones needed to complete the Giza great pyramid and its mount would be an effort that seems unrealistic to me. 125 stones minimum from quarry to job site, cut, fit, polished, lifted and placed every day for 50 years straight 365 days a year and you get one pyramid. 2 to 100 tons. It's a ridiculous claim IMO. Could tens of thousands of workers at the site, plus tens of thousands in other places in the country, achieve what you're imagining? They've found records from boat captains hundred of miles away detailing the stones they were charged with bringing to the project. They had an absurdly large number of unemployed farmers to help out as basic labor (unskilled) in the flood season. And an estimated ten to twenty thousand people living in the town on the plateau, with support personnel (bakers, brewers, butchers, etc.). It's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. We also have the "Lost Pyramid," which was built and then it's parts literally robbed for other projects in antiquity. There is an evolution in pyramid building in Egypt. It's visible. You can go and look at it, touch it, examine it. All these previous projects exist. In the end, they figured it out, and had hundreds of thousands of laborers, skilled ones year-round and unskilled seasonally, to build things. It happened. To spout nonsense like "they couldn't have done it without advanced tech," or "aliens must've helped," if just plain insulting to the ingenuity of our species. We invented steam power in the Roman era, we just didn't comprehend it's possibilities. The ancient Greeks worked out the concept of "atomic" theory. They also measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10%, among countless other achievements in math, the sciences, etc. The Antikythera Mechanism. Telling time with pressurized water in a fountain. Automatically opening doors to a temple when you lit the brazier outside. Literally a million other innovations and achievements. And that's just in Europe. Don't ever, for one instant, think you're smarter than the people who lived 10,000 years ago. You're not. You just have the advantage of standing on the shoulders of giants, so you can see farther. Get over it already. The Pyramids were built by human hands. They didn't write down exact instructions of how to do so (that we've found yet) because they didn't think what they were doing was special. It certainly didn't rank up there with the literal "God made flesh on Earth" who was telling them to do it, or overseeing them. Because religious superstition is kind of a thing among our species. Didn't claim aliens did it. Didn't claim they had advanced tech. Didn't claim I'm smarter than Egyptians from over 2k years ago. I have a problem with the logistics of the official narrative of 240 to 300 stone blocks placed everyday roughly within the confines of 20 years. If a person has ever built anything in their life, been a part of a huge project, moved heavy equipment, got a Mac truck out of a ditch, cooked for 500 people, carved a piece of rock, read prints and made objects from them, talked with engineers to unfuck design mistakes or misprints, coordinated a land invasion with thousands of elements in land air and sea domain... It dawns on you that the official story with copper chisel, pounding stone, rope, skinny wooden boats, and a lot of bored farmers that moonlight as the greatest tradesman the world has ever known just feels inadequate to explain the results. The window of time they worked on it, the tech they used to quarry, move and shape the stone, the amount of humans, animals and resources would have to be significantly adjusted before the story begins to make any sense. |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: t's not as if twenty dudes built the Great Pyramid. Populations back "in the day" were much larger that people assume in modern times. Not millions, but hundreds of thousands. They also have "pre-Pyramids" in the form of mastabas. Which gave rise to the Step Pyramid(s). Which gave rise to the major fuck-up of the Bent Pyramid, and then it's correction of the Red Pyramid literally next door. And other Pyramids in the area, most of which don't exist anymore because they tried to make them out of mud brick, which didn't last. What if the Bent Pyramid wasn't a mistake? Check out Geoffrey/Jeffrey Drumm’s “Land of Chem” |
| It's been pretty well established that at the time the pyramids were built that was a very wet area and nearly a tropical paradise. I don't think harvesting trees were an issue but I don't buy the theory. They couldn't possibly have even made ropes strong enough and if they did they would be so huge men couldn't handle them. That has already been tested using hemp and the various other materials most ropes are made from. At least for the giant 50 ton and more megalithic stones that were used. |
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: *sigh* Questioning the "they moved stones by rolling them on logs" nonsense is not the same as claiming "aliens did it". Please stop using that disingenuous rebuttal. Humans built everything in Egypt, it's the HOW that's fascinating and lacks a sufficient answer. The mainstream narrative is flat out bullshit no matter how many people they had working on it. The Pyramids aren't even the most interesting structures and considering the mind boggling number of structures, monuments, tunnels, shafts, obelisks, carved boxes, and random enormous worked granite blocks all over the plateau, the math simply doesn't work when folks claim "they just threw more people at the problem". Was every ancient Egyptian built like an NFL linebacker, an expert at carving stone, and could work 18 hours a day? Originally Posted By TLD05: Didn't claim aliens did it. Didn't claim they had advanced tech. Didn't claim I'm smarter than Egyptians from over 2k years ago. I have a problem with the logistics of the official narrative of 240 to 300 stone blocks placed everyday roughly within the confines of 20 years. If a person has ever built anything in their life, been a part of a huge project, moved heavy equipment, got a Mac truck out of a ditch, cooked for 500 people, carved a piece of rock, read prints and made objects from them, talked with engineers to unfuck design mistakes or misprints, coordinated a land invasion with thousands of elements in land air and sea domain... It dawns on you that the official story with copper chisel, pounding stone, rope, skinny wooden boats, and a lot of bored farmers that moonlight as the greatest tradesman the world has ever known just feels inadequate to explain the results. The window of time they worked on it, the tech they used to quarry, move and shape the stone, the amount of humans, animals and resources would have to be significantly adjusted before the story begins to make any sense. It's not disingenuous. This is a UFO and Creatures of Legend forum, and that's what gets discussed here. Although no one flat out said "aliens built it," or "they had some near-magical advanced tech," by implying it's impossible with the tech and manpower they had, what's left? Especially on this forum? It's a very tiny step here to go from reality to outright speculation, and so before we drive down that road, I thought I'd put my thoughts into electrons. And if we're going into the "lets not make disingenuous claims" realm, no one seriously claims they used log rollers. That's something someone proposed a century ago, and no one thinks happened. Wooden sledges, maybe. You say "the math doesn't work out," and that they all had to be 6'4" and 240#. That's simply not reality...they weren't modern Americans with modern senses of what their place in life was. They weren't union members used to working 8 hour days and getting a weekend off. They farmed, and when they weren't farming, they worked for the state. Literally for bread and beer. Likely 12+ hours a day. When archaeologists say the wonders of Egypt weren't built by slaves...they're kinda wrong. No, those seasonal workers weren't literally owned by another human being...but they kinda were, and didn't get a choice in what they were doing. Estimates put their number alone at 30,000 people, backed up by another 5,000-10,000 skilled craftsmen who worked on any given project year-round and were highly valued for their expertise. And those are just the workers on the plateau itself. It doesn't count the tens of thousands of others throughout the kingdom gathering materials, making blocks, shipping them to the project site, etc. So, 25,000-30,000 people working on a project like that for half a year or more, then the skilled remaining for the test of the year to do the "fine work," if you will. The Great Pyramid has roughly 2.3 million blocks of stone, most of them of the smaller 2.5 ton variety, which is a block of stone 1 meter on each side. 39 inches. There are over 852 million seconds in 27 years, the amount of time thought to have taken for construction. That's putting down a block that size roughly every 6 minutes. Divide that by 4 (12 hour work days 6 months a year) and it's a block every 1.5 minutes. Let's say every 2 minutes, to account for the people there year-round. As stated, that's 240 blocks a day (for 27 years. not 20). Is that really a staggering achievement for 35,000 humans? I don't think that would even be staggering for 5000 people, presuming they weren't the ones actually making the blocks. If you had 5000 healthy adult males and 240 blocks of stone a meter square, plus a known method of moving them (lets just imagine sledges over hard-packed ground), could you get them to move and set those blocks in 12 hours? I think you could. Meanwhile another 240 blocks are being staged for tomorrow over at the docks. They weren't dragging these things for miles. The water channel was right there. We've found it. The mind-blowing part of all that is the organizational skills required to achieve it. The vision. The biggest mystery seems to be the method of actual construction, as a ramp built to drag stuff to the top would be several times the amount of material actually in the pyramid. Cranes? They had them, of the basic lever variety. Something hydraulic? That's the newest idea I saw. This idea of carving away everything that wasn't a pyramid isn't crazy, but you wouldn't be left with a pile of blocks, you'd be left with a solid thing, so I'm not sure how that works out. But a shortage of manpower was not their issue. I'm much more interested in other megalithic sites, like Baalbek or Sacsayhuaman. Moving a 2.5 ton stone is child's play for 20 dudes who know what they're doing. How do you move a 900-ton stone a kilometer? Much less three of them, with 1200-1500 ton unfinished stones waiting their turn? You can't just scale it up...that would be 10,000 men, falling all over each other like monkeys fucking a football. Not to mention no sledge could hold something like that, nor likely anything else we know of. Or 200-ton stones (and smaller) moved, shaped, and stacked so tightly you can't slip a playing card between them. They Pyramids are just big piles of rocks. Get enough guys together, organize them, get the conveyor moving and you can easily imagine them happening. Crazy impressive, but not impossible as so many like to state. Those other sites though...holy crap, if I had a time machine I'd go back and watch how those were done. The pyramids too, for sure, but they'd be a ways down the list. |
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Ancient people did some interesting things. Attached File Attached File Attached File |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: Ancient people did some interesting things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3010_jpeg-3705895.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3011_jpeg-3705896.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3012_jpeg-3705897.JPG They certainly did. Like those wells they made in India. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: They certainly did. Like those wells they made in India. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/254435/Well_jpg-3705898.JPG Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By sq40: Ancient people did some interesting things. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3010_jpeg-3705895.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3011_jpeg-3705896.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/49447/IMG_3012_jpeg-3705897.JPG They certainly did. Like those wells they made in India. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/254435/Well_jpg-3705898.JPG Just imagine the pitch meeting: Leader: "Ok, some of you are gonna move a bunch of giant heavy stones, some of you are going to dig into the bedrock, and some of you are responsible for chipping away at granite until it's ready for the skilled sculptors. It's going to require literally everyone to participate." Poor bastards: "Alright. How long are we thinking this'll take?" Leader: "Oh, you'll be dead before it's finished but your kids will probably get to enjoy it by the time they're old." Poor bastards: "Shit. Well, what do we get for all the work?" Leader: "A bit of bread and some beer." Poor bastards: "Why are we doing this? Is there literally anything else we can do to get fed?" Leader: "Uhhhh, nope. God said you have to do this, so there's no other option. Sorry." Poor bastards: "Well I guess if God said it, we don't have a choice. I'll go get my chisel." |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: You have to wonder if the rulers just kept coming up with elaborate projects to keep people occupied so they didn't revolt. Aristotle specifically mentions this as a tactic of tyrants in "Politics." |
Pemberton the carbonated, behind his tasty bubbles, whispering of the love that is more horrible than hate.
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Originally Posted By gaspain: geopolymer makes more sense https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WE9VaHsDHhoThat was interesting. Doesn't explain the structure of the blocks being the same as rock in Aswan, you would thing the aggregate would disperse differently after being liquefied. Also doesn't explain why some of the nubs look like they were fractured. A far more simple explanation for the nubs is that they are a remnant of the quarrying process. Dig two parallel trenches, then dig a trench perpendicular to them undercut the bottom until you have two nubs holding the rock up, apply a side force at the top and the stone falls onto a pile of sand, then you move it from there. It will be easier to dig if the nubs are left on the side closer to the remaining rock, it also reduces the effort needed to break the nubs and drop the stone. It will leave you with nubs on top, you transport them to the site clean up the top and sides then flip the stone into place and the nubs are now onto the bottom, you finish the top the come back later and clean up the entire face of all the blocks at the same time to create a perfect surface. No new technology needed, just techniques they either are know to have used, or physical evidence supports. The ridge that supports the unfinished obelisk is the step before the nubs, they would have kept removing the ridge until they could knock that thing on its side, then ship it downriver. As for the scoop marks, I think they are the result of a crude form of media blasting. It would require leather hoses earlier than commonly accepted, but it's not a huge jump or a completely out of this world technology. |
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I like the idea the pyramids were pre-flood. Not sure who built them. But I like to think with people living to be 800-900 years old they would learn some stuff. Many theorists believe they were highly advanced. Which makes sense. Look how far we have come just in the last 100 years. |
Gonads & Strife
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: And it doesn't scale. People like to use methods that would work up to a few tons to explain how 100 ton stones were moved and raised into place. "Oh they just used more slaves". Yeah, physics doesn't work that way. |
"As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
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Originally Posted By R2point0: Pyramid stones weighed 100 tons? Originally Posted By R2point0: Originally Posted By Cypher214: And it doesn't scale. People like to use methods that would work up to a few tons to explain how 100 ton stones were moved and raised into place. "Oh they just used more slaves". Yeah, physics doesn't work that way. The stones that were 100 tons and more are the one-piece obelisks, the serapeum boxes, some of the blocks that became enormous statues, etc. There are multiple granite and diorite objects around the plateau that started out as 100+ ton blocks. The statue that's supposedly Ramesses II started out as a 1,000-1,200 ton block of red granite. Even if they risked carving it before moving it, fucking how? Attached File Then there's the unfinished obelisk that was abandoned because it cracked. Weight is estimated at 1,200 tons. There's evidence that other blocks as big as the unfinished obelisk were quarried and removed. Attached File As I said above, the pyramids aren't even the most mind boggling structures at Giza. The Serapeum of Saqarra is far more interesting. They carved tunnels and alcoves out of bedrock, then somehow moved 80-100 ton blocks of granite through the narrow tunnels, set them in place inside the alcoves, and finished them into precisely finished and highly polished boxes. Egyptologists claim they went through all this effort to bury some mummified bulls.  Evidence of a lost Ancient Civilization at the Serapeum of Saqqara - Chapter 5 The Baalbek stones are another big mystery. 750-800 ton stones were carved, moved, and RAISED 30 feet to create a foundation. The Romans kept good records of their monument construction projects and they don't mention moving those stones but far easier projects are touted as a great accomplishment. There's speculation that the foundation was already in place when the Romans discovered the site and they just built on top of it with smaller blocks. There are other examples around the world where "a lot of guys with ropes" doesn't work, "longer levers" doesn't work, "pulling them on sleds" doesn't work, and all the other claimed methods simply aren't allowed by physics once the weight gets to a certain number. They knew how to do it fairly easily, because why use fucking enormous heavy blocks instead of multiple smaller blocks that accomplish the same thing? Humans don't choose the hardest and least efficient possible way to finish a task when a much easier and faster method is obvious. |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: The heaviest stones in the Great Pyramid are around 80 tons and they comprise the ceiling of the King's Chamber. The stones that were 100 tons and more are the one-piece obelisks, the serapeum boxes, some of the blocks that became enormous statues, etc. There are multiple granite and diorite objects around the plateau that started out as 100+ ton blocks. The statue that's supposedly Ramesses II started out as a 1,000-1,200 ton block of red granite. Even if they risked carving it before moving it, fucking how? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4019/IMG_8105_jpeg-3706182.JPG Then there's the unfinished obelisk that was abandoned because it cracked. Weight is estimated at 1,200 tons. There's evidence that other blocks as big as the unfinished obelisk were quarried and removed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4019/IMG_8106_jpeg-3706188.JPG As I said above, the pyramids aren't even the most mind boggling structures at Giza. The Serapeum of Saqarra is far more interesting. They carved tunnels and alcoves out of bedrock, then somehow moved 80-100 ton blocks of granite through the narrow tunnels, set them in place inside the alcoves, and finished them into precisely finished and highly polished boxes. Egyptologists claim they went through all this effort to bury some mummified bulls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrTCYMFUbgThe Baalbek stones are another big mystery. 750-800 ton stones were carved, moved, and RAISED 30 feet to create a foundation. The Romans kept good records of their monument construction projects and they don't mention moving those stones but far easier projects are touted as a great accomplishment. There's speculation that the foundation was already in place when the Romans discovered the site and they just built on top of it with smaller blocks. There are other examples around the world where "a lot of guys with ropes" doesn't work, "longer levers" doesn't work, "pulling them on sleds" doesn't work, and all the other claimed methods simply aren't allowed by physics once the weight gets to a certain number. They knew how to do it fairly easily, because why use fucking enormous heavy blocks instead of multiple smaller blocks that accomplish the same thing? Humans don't choose the hardest and least efficient possible way to finish a task when a much easier and faster method is obvious. This +1. The Sarapaeum. The H-stones at Pumapunku. Sacsayhuaman. Derinkuyu. Gobekli Tepe. Baalbek. The Sphinx. If I had a time machine, and could watch things being built (and when and why), I'd visit all of those (and some others I'm forgetting) before I checked in on the Pyramids. I don't find them all that difficult to understand. I expect that teams of 20-30 guys were dragging blocks all day, with some extra effort for a few of the bigger pieces. If a team put one stone down from the docks to where it was being laid in a 10-hour day, you'd only need 6000-9000 guys out of 35,000 hauling blocks to get to 300 per day in an assembly line, or a few parallel ones. It ain't rocket surgery. But, you'd definitely have to watch the method they were using to get the blocks up there. That's the unknown part. But, it'd be a ways down my list. 
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: This +1. The Sarapaeum. The H-stones at Pumapunku. Sacsayhuaman. Derinkuyu. Gobekli Tepe. Baalbek. The Sphinx. If I had a time machine, and could watch things being built (and when and why), I'd visit all of those (and some others I'm forgetting) before I checked in on the Pyramids. I don't find them all that difficult to understand. I expect that teams of 20-30 guys were dragging blocks all day, with some extra effort for a few of the bigger pieces. If a team put one stone down from the docks to where it was being laid in a 10-hour day, you'd only need 6000-9000 guys out of 35,000 hauling blocks to get to 300 per day in an assembly line, or a few parallel ones. It ain't rocket surgery. But, you'd definitely have to watch the method they were using to get the blocks up there. That's the unknown part. But, it'd be a ways down my list. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By Cypher214: The heaviest stones in the Great Pyramid are around 80 tons and they comprise the ceiling of the King's Chamber. The stones that were 100 tons and more are the one-piece obelisks, the serapeum boxes, some of the blocks that became enormous statues, etc. There are multiple granite and diorite objects around the plateau that started out as 100+ ton blocks. The statue that's supposedly Ramesses II started out as a 1,000-1,200 ton block of red granite. Even if they risked carving it before moving it, fucking how? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4019/IMG_8105_jpeg-3706182.JPG Then there's the unfinished obelisk that was abandoned because it cracked. Weight is estimated at 1,200 tons. There's evidence that other blocks as big as the unfinished obelisk were quarried and removed. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/4019/IMG_8106_jpeg-3706188.JPG As I said above, the pyramids aren't even the most mind boggling structures at Giza. The Serapeum of Saqarra is far more interesting. They carved tunnels and alcoves out of bedrock, then somehow moved 80-100 ton blocks of granite through the narrow tunnels, set them in place inside the alcoves, and finished them into precisely finished and highly polished boxes. Egyptologists claim they went through all this effort to bury some mummified bulls. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLrTCYMFUbgThe Baalbek stones are another big mystery. 750-800 ton stones were carved, moved, and RAISED 30 feet to create a foundation. The Romans kept good records of their monument construction projects and they don't mention moving those stones but far easier projects are touted as a great accomplishment. There's speculation that the foundation was already in place when the Romans discovered the site and they just built on top of it with smaller blocks. There are other examples around the world where "a lot of guys with ropes" doesn't work, "longer levers" doesn't work, "pulling them on sleds" doesn't work, and all the other claimed methods simply aren't allowed by physics once the weight gets to a certain number. They knew how to do it fairly easily, because why use fucking enormous heavy blocks instead of multiple smaller blocks that accomplish the same thing? Humans don't choose the hardest and least efficient possible way to finish a task when a much easier and faster method is obvious. This +1. The Sarapaeum. The H-stones at Pumapunku. Sacsayhuaman. Derinkuyu. Gobekli Tepe. Baalbek. The Sphinx. If I had a time machine, and could watch things being built (and when and why), I'd visit all of those (and some others I'm forgetting) before I checked in on the Pyramids. I don't find them all that difficult to understand. I expect that teams of 20-30 guys were dragging blocks all day, with some extra effort for a few of the bigger pieces. If a team put one stone down from the docks to where it was being laid in a 10-hour day, you'd only need 6000-9000 guys out of 35,000 hauling blocks to get to 300 per day in an assembly line, or a few parallel ones. It ain't rocket surgery. But, you'd definitely have to watch the method they were using to get the blocks up there. That's the unknown part. But, it'd be a ways down my list. I don't know why that's not an accepted theory and the "rational" story is "a bunch of dudes dragged this 2,000,000 pound rock several miles across the ground with hemp ropes and lifted it with pulleys made of wood". We know acoustic levitation is a thing, but it's not scalable to extremely heavy objects using our known methods. |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: I think the only logical explanation is they used some form of levitation and it was a method used by several cultures, or an older single culture that was much more widespread than allowed by the mainstream account of history. I don't know why that's not an accepted theory and the "rational" story is "a bunch of dudes dragged this 2,000,000 pound rock several miles across the ground with hemp ropes and lifted it with pulleys made of wood". We know acoustic levitation is a thing, but it's not scalable to extremely heavy objects using our known methods. Levitation is just so "woo" though. Acoustic levitation works on grams of material, not tons. Just like ropes and pulleys and levers aren't scalable, acoustic levitation doesn't seem to be either. At a certain point, when you're talking about literal tons of stone, or hundreds of tons, the sound wave energy would simple shatter them instead of lifting them. And kill everyone within a mile. Which is where the mystery lies. 2.5 tons? A cakewalk, it's a rock a meter square. I could get enough linemen together at work to drag it on a sledge wherever you want (they just aren't motivated by being commanded by a living god and told they won't eat or get beer if they don't do it, plus they want Union wage). 1000 tons? 2,000,000 pounds, as you say? Logic and reason fail, and you're left with "woo." Except that "woo" likely isn't acoustic in nature. Remember those insanely hard and precise vessels from Pre-Dynastic Egypt? What if you made a crateload of perfect spheres out of that material? The same as the sarcophagi in the Serapeum are made of? If you lifted it once with a lever-crane, outside, and put a bunch of those under it, you could roll it wherever you wanted with minimal effort presuming you kept putting a field of new speres in front of it. Even if one or several broke, it would keep going by being pushed onto new spheres. You could move them down those narrow hallways no problem. Which begs the question how you would make a bunch of identical stone spheres out of that material...yet we know someone, at some time, was capable of working it to a ridiculous level of precision... |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: Levitation is just so "woo" though. Acoustic levitation works on grams of material, not tons. Just like ropes and pulleys and levers aren't scalable, acoustic levitation doesn't seem to be either. At a certain point, when you're talking about literal tons of stone, or hundreds of tons, the sound wave energy would simple shatter them instead of lifting them. And kill everyone within a mile. Which is where the mystery lies. 2.5 tons? A cakewalk, it's a rock a meter square. I could get enough linemen together at work to drag it on a sledge wherever you want (they just aren't motivated by being commanded by a living god and told they won't eat or get beer if they don't do it, plus they want Union wage). 1000 tons? 2,000,000 pounds, as you say? Logic and reason fail, and you're left with "woo." Except that "woo" likely isn't acoustic in nature. Remember those insanely hard and precise vessels from Pre-Dynastic Egypt? What if you made a crateload of perfect spheres out of that material? The same as the sarcophagi in the Serapeum are made of? If you lifted it once with a lever-crane, outside, and put a bunch of those under it, you could roll it wherever you wanted with minimal effort presuming you kept putting a field of new speres in front of it. Even if one or several broke, it would keep going by being pushed onto new spheres. You could move them down those narrow hallways no problem. Which begs the question how you would make a bunch of identical stone spheres out of that material...yet we know someone, at some time, was capable of working it to a ridiculous level of precision... Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By Cypher214: I think the only logical explanation is they used some form of levitation and it was a method used by several cultures, or an older single culture that was much more widespread than allowed by the mainstream account of history. I don't know why that's not an accepted theory and the "rational" story is "a bunch of dudes dragged this 2,000,000 pound rock several miles across the ground with hemp ropes and lifted it with pulleys made of wood". We know acoustic levitation is a thing, but it's not scalable to extremely heavy objects using our known methods. Levitation is just so "woo" though. Acoustic levitation works on grams of material, not tons. Just like ropes and pulleys and levers aren't scalable, acoustic levitation doesn't seem to be either. At a certain point, when you're talking about literal tons of stone, or hundreds of tons, the sound wave energy would simple shatter them instead of lifting them. And kill everyone within a mile. Which is where the mystery lies. 2.5 tons? A cakewalk, it's a rock a meter square. I could get enough linemen together at work to drag it on a sledge wherever you want (they just aren't motivated by being commanded by a living god and told they won't eat or get beer if they don't do it, plus they want Union wage). 1000 tons? 2,000,000 pounds, as you say? Logic and reason fail, and you're left with "woo." Except that "woo" likely isn't acoustic in nature. Remember those insanely hard and precise vessels from Pre-Dynastic Egypt? What if you made a crateload of perfect spheres out of that material? The same as the sarcophagi in the Serapeum are made of? If you lifted it once with a lever-crane, outside, and put a bunch of those under it, you could roll it wherever you wanted with minimal effort presuming you kept putting a field of new speres in front of it. Even if one or several broke, it would keep going by being pushed onto new spheres. You could move them down those narrow hallways no problem. Which begs the question how you would make a bunch of identical stone spheres out of that material...yet we know someone, at some time, was capable of working it to a ridiculous level of precision... I also don't think the physics work out for that either. My gut says if you placed a 700+ ton block on a bed of stone spheres, they're just going to get pressed into the dirt/sand and you're back to square one. The 1,200 ton thunder stone was moved with the advantage of iron, steel, and brass but they still had to wait for the ground to freeze so the track wouldn't be smashed into the ground and progress was insanely slow. There's also the known fact that many of the enormous stones were moved hundreds of miles over uneven terrain and even with mountains in the way. Your stone bearing theory may work with level hard ground, but it quickly falls apart when faced with reality. I wasn't suggesting it had to be acoustic in nature, just that we know it's possible. Same with magnetic levitation. So the idea of some form of levitation is based in reality and not overly woo. "Woo" would be suggesting they moved them around using telekinesis. |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: They certainly did. Like those wells they made in India. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/254435/Well_jpg-3705898.JPG Oh wow I've never seen this! |
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: Then where are all the stone bearings? There would be many millions of them to allow for what you're describing and they wouldn't have just disappeared. I also don't think the physics work out for that either. My gut says if you placed a 700+ ton block on a bed of stone spheres, they're just going to get pressed into the dirt/sand and you're back to square one. The 1,200 ton thunder stone was moved with the advantage of iron, steel, and brass but they still had to wait for the ground to freeze so the track wouldn't be smashed into the ground and progress was insanely slow. There's also the known fact that many of the enormous stones were moved hundreds of miles over uneven terrain and even with mountains in the way. Your stone bearing theory may work with level hard ground, but it quickly falls apart when faced with reality. I wasn't suggesting it had to be acoustic in nature, just that we know it's possible. Same with magnetic levitation. So the idea of some form of levitation is based in reality and not overly woo. "Woo" would be suggesting they moved them around using telekinesis. Yeah, it was just a random thought I had when thinking about the Serapeum "sarcophagi" and those vases in the same few seconds. It would only have worked inside a structure with hard floors, like the Serapeum. They wouldn't have needed millions, just a few dozen possibly, disposed of at the end. But nothing more than a wild hypothesis. |
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Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: Yeah, it was just a random thought I had when thinking about the Serapeum "sarcophagi" and those vases in the same few seconds. It would only have worked inside a structure with hard floors, like the Serapeum. They wouldn't have needed millions, just a few dozen possibly, disposed of at the end. But nothing more than a wild hypothesis. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By Cypher214: Then where are all the stone bearings? There would be many millions of them to allow for what you're describing and they wouldn't have just disappeared. I also don't think the physics work out for that either. My gut says if you placed a 700+ ton block on a bed of stone spheres, they're just going to get pressed into the dirt/sand and you're back to square one. The 1,200 ton thunder stone was moved with the advantage of iron, steel, and brass but they still had to wait for the ground to freeze so the track wouldn't be smashed into the ground and progress was insanely slow. There's also the known fact that many of the enormous stones were moved hundreds of miles over uneven terrain and even with mountains in the way. Your stone bearing theory may work with level hard ground, but it quickly falls apart when faced with reality. I wasn't suggesting it had to be acoustic in nature, just that we know it's possible. Same with magnetic levitation. So the idea of some form of levitation is based in reality and not overly woo. "Woo" would be suggesting they moved them around using telekinesis. Yeah, it was just a random thought I had when thinking about the Serapeum "sarcophagi" and those vases in the same few seconds. It would only have worked inside a structure with hard floors, like the Serapeum. They wouldn't have needed millions, just a few dozen possibly, disposed of at the end. But nothing more than a wild hypothesis. 
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Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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A portal crane or gantry crane would be a valuable tool. Could a wooden or metal version with block and tackle have been possible back then? Something at a scale to build a pyramid? |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: A portal crane or gantry crane would be a valuable tool. Could a wooden or metal version with block and tackle have been possible back then? Something at a scale to build a pyramid? Absolutely. They had "cranes." It was nothing more complex than a lever, on a stand, with guys and ropes at one end and a heavy load at the other. Make a lever long enough and I can move the world. Don't think that ancient people were primitive. Imagine the amount of brainpower it takes to learn to flake stone. When I was an archaeologist, I took a class on it (in Zzyzzx, CA!). It's hard. I sucked. I still have what I made. Then move on to simple metal work. Copper axes, then bronze, finally iron. People building monumental architecture while they murdered each other with spears and bows. Metalwork progresses through Corinthian armor to the Romans using lorica segmentata, as well as chain armor, scale, etc. Stop and imagine what it requires for someone to invent 4-in-1 chain armor, or any of the other variations. That's just a microscopic picture of the innovations going on at that time. The Greeks invented Atomic Theory, they were just wrong about it. By the turn of BC to AD, people were using every hand tool you can possibly imagine today. I can show you diagrams of spring-pole lathes being used over a thousand years ago. We haven't invented. We've innovated. Everything you think someone invented, someone else did before. Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the Earth to within 10% before your religion was created. Archimedes almost invented Calculus 1900 years before Newton, being prevented by an idiot Roman soldier (as the story goes). Just look at the Antikythera Mechanism, or any of the other marvelous inventions of 2000-3000 years ago. It's mind-boggling. Everyone sees father when they stand on the shoulders of giants. |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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Originally Posted By Cypher214: When logic doesn't work, all we have left are wild hypothesisisiseses. 
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Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes