Posted: 6/26/2025 11:55:16 AM EDT
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...is not PADI doubling its rates for pros over the past few years; causing the organization to live up to it's moniker "Put Another Dollar In." No, the biggest scam in the scuba industry is the VIP program. Visual Inspections. VIP is a program that is self-imposed by the scuba industry in which the standards for conducting and evaluating cylinders is maintained (and not openly shared) by one organization: GCA. For the low, low price of $4600 per year, you can have access to the standards. The only legally required inspection is the five-year DOT hydro, visual, and eddy current testing. There is no legal requirement that a person be qualified by PSI-PCI, or any other organization, to conduct an annual visual inspection of cylinder. In fact, I have yet to meet a person who has undergone that $325 training; every shop monkey conducting inspections is just an employee of the shop who learned how to do a VIP from somebody else in the shop. (They do sell a visual inspection procedures book for $25.) As for liability, every cylinder fill station is free to fill a tank with or without a VIP sticker. They're also free to decline to fill a cylinder with a "current" VIP sticker as they are to fill one. Should a cylinder rupture during the fill, it would be the fill station's responsibility as they had the ability to decline to fill it for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I own approximately 30 cylinders that I use to teach. My local shop charges $25 per VIP, for a total annual bill of $750. At the rates I charge for OW, I would have to teach five students just to break even on VIPs and variable costs such as PADI materials, PIC, fills, etc. Add in other fixed costs such as PADI membership and insurance, and it's clear that doing VIPs myself is an easy way to increase my per-capita margin. So, I'm going to buy the book, read it, follow the procedures, and slap my own stickers on my tanks from now on.  Anyways...hot button topic, I'm sure. |
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Originally Posted By fast99: is this a commercial requirement? Have 4 steel 80's that are out of date is this an additional fee I have to pay? It's a scuba industry requirement. There is no legal requirement to have your cylinders visually inspected every year, but you'll be hard pressed to find a shop that will fill a tank without a VIP decal. Most shops charge twenty to thirty bucks or so for a VIP. Depending on how "out of date" your cylinders are, they might need hydro. More than five years since the last date stamped on the shoulder of your cylinder, you'll need a hydro. That costs more...usually fifty bucks and over. |
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Good luck with your own VIP sticker....most shops won't accept them. The PCI ones are mostly accepted, by mostly I mean because most of the time they aren't filled out. One owner of a rather large online dive supply company...based in Broward...was notorious for this. I let him slide, but made him fill it out prior to fill. Whether it was O2 clean was another headache....and another thread. Other customers with the same sticker I looked up their name in the directory PCI provides...hmm not there. No other credentials provided. The price you are paying is a scam...in the $15 range is about right. I have VIP'ed a metric shit-tonne of tanks. Roughly 5% had issues from rust, corrosion , and or water inside the tank which was discovered from said inspection. The real scam is short fills. |
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Originally Posted By bap: Other customers with the same sticker I looked up their name in the directory PCI provides... Yeah...about that... Attached File When you have a customer standing in front of you with an empty cylinder on Friday afternoon and wanting to dive the next day, PCI might be able to help you in a few days. All part of the scam. That said, the shop is able to deny the cylinder for whatever reason. The summer hires that shops bring on to do fills couldn't give a shit less about what's on the VIP decal, other than the month and year in which it is supposed to expire. |
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Originally Posted By OutThere: Yeah...about that... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/171820/Scam_png-3573577.JPG When you have a customer standing in front of you with an empty cylinder on Friday afternoon and wanting to dive the next day, PCI might be able to help you in a few days. All part of the scam. That said, the shop is able to deny the cylinder for whatever reason. The summer hires that shops bring on to do fills couldn't give a shit less about what's on the VIP decal, other than the month and year in which it is supposed to expire. Been out of the game for 4 yrs .... The change in PCI service makes it less believable lol As far as fillers not paying attention...that does happen here. They look for familiar shops. It looks different..huh...more scrutiny. |
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Originally Posted By TNC: Doesn't it come from DOT regs? Nope. The yearly VIP is a program self-imposed by the scuba industry. The 5-year hydro is required by law, however. 49 CFR § 180.205 Note: the CFR requires visual inspection every time the cylinder is pressure tested (ie the 5-year hydro). It does not require annual visual inspection. |
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VIPs are the biggest reason I bought a compressor years ago when I was an active instructor. 50 tanks at 10 bucks a throw got spendy. Now that I'm retired from teaching, I sold the lion's share of my tanks and if I want to go diving, I'll rent one or 2... or grit my teeth and go through the VIP dance. |
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Originally Posted By backbencher: So how much does eBay charge for VIP stickers? About a buck a pop. But, seriously. Buy the book from PSI-PCI, get the tools they recommend, follow their procedures...congrats! You're trained! Get some stickers made on Sticker Mule or some other such place with a snazzy dive logo and your email address, and go nuts. |
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Originally Posted By cdnstffrdva: wow a lot has changed since I got certified in the 80's they used to have to stamp the inspection date or the expiration date in the metal of the tank not sure which. I just rent tanks now a days and bring my personal stuff. It seems you’re thinking about the 5 year hydro. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By TigerForce: Has anyone heard any discussion of a possible lawsuit, alleging monopolistic practices? Scuba is a slowly dying sport. Its heyday was probably in the 90s/early 2000s. It was a boomer thing, after seeing Jacques Cousteau on TV growing up. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: Scuba is a slowly dying sport. Originally Posted By Marie: Originally Posted By TigerForce: Has anyone heard any discussion of a possible lawsuit, alleging monopolistic practices? Scuba is a slowly dying sport. ...yet total participation in the sport is increasing. Attached File With most of that growth coming from casual divers (1-7 times per year) Attached File I wouldn't call it a "dying sport" by any stretch, but a sport that ebbs and flows with changes in demographics and their attitudes toward adventure travel. Most of the people I teach are young folks (under 40) and their kids; usually, they're getting ready for a tropical vacation or a cruise and want to get certified before traveling. In my personal (albeit anecdotal) experience, demand for instruction has been markedly higher than last year. Make of that what you will, but from my point of view, scuba is anything but a dying sport. |
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Dive ships are closing all over the place. Many of the shops in the Chicago area are 1-2 people. How many of those people who get instruction will stick with it, rather than doing a couple of dives a year? |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: Dive ships are closing all over the place. Many of the shops in the Chicago area are 1-2 people. How many of those people who get instruction will stick with it, rather than doing a couple of dives a year? The SFIA's own data, posted above, shows that most of the growth has been in casual divers; those doing 1 to 7 dives per year. The rise in casual divers does not indicate that the sport is dying, at all. Rather, the nature of participation in the sport is shifting from those who "stick with it" to those who dive a "couple times a year". In other words, there are more people participating in the sport; they just aren't die-hard about it. The participants in scuba probably participate in other sports at the same frequency. Dive a couple times per year, ski a couple times per year, kayak a couple times per year, etc. |
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Originally Posted By OutThere: ...is not PADI doubling its rates for pros over the past few years; causing the organization to live up to it's moniker "Put Another Dollar In." No, the biggest scam in the scuba industry is the VIP program. Visual Inspections. VIP is a program that is self-imposed by the scuba industry in which the standards for conducting and evaluating cylinders is maintained (and not openly shared) by one organization: GCA. For the low, low price of $4600 per year, you can have access to the standards. The only legally required inspection is the five-year DOT hydro, visual, and eddy current testing. There is no legal requirement that a person be qualified by PSI-PCI, or any other organization, to conduct an annual visual inspection of cylinder. In fact, I have yet to meet a person who has undergone that $325 training; every shop monkey conducting inspections is just an employee of the shop who learned how to do a VIP from somebody else in the shop. (They do sell a visual inspection procedures book for $25.) As for liability, every cylinder fill station is free to fill a tank with or without a VIP sticker. They're also free to decline to fill a cylinder with a "current" VIP sticker as they are to fill one. Should a cylinder rupture during the fill, it would be the fill station's responsibility as they had the ability to decline to fill it for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I own approximately 30 cylinders that I use to teach. My local shop charges $25 per VIP, for a total annual bill of $750. At the rates I charge for OW, I would have to teach five students just to break even on VIPs and variable costs such as PADI materials, PIC, fills, etc. Add in other fixed costs such as PADI membership and insurance, and it's clear that doing VIPs myself is an easy way to increase my per-capita margin. So, I'm going to buy the book, read it, follow the procedures, and slap my own stickers on my tanks from now on. Anyways...hot button topic, I'm sure. Buy your own VIS stickers, do your own VIS. Easy peasy. Just drain the cylinder before you try and remove the valve. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By OutThere: It's a scuba industry requirement. There is no legal requirement to have your cylinders visually inspected every year, but you'll be hard pressed to find a shop that will fill a tank without a VIP decal. Most shops charge twenty to thirty bucks or so for a VIP. Depending on how "out of date" your cylinders are, they might need hydro. More than five years since the last date stamped on the shoulder of your cylinder, you'll need a hydro. That costs more...usually fifty bucks and over. I get that it's different regionally, but that's ridiculous compared to what we pay here in central Florida. I think the dive shop I use charges like $15 for a VIP and fill (the fill is $7-10 for air by itself), and I still got my own VIP cert through SDI so I don't have to be bothered driving them over there, as I have 8-9 cylinders... |
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Originally Posted By Marie: Dive ships are closing all over the place. Many of the shops in the Chicago area are 1-2 people. How many of those people who get instruction will stick with it, rather than doing a couple of dives a year? The truth is business are closing in places like Chicago, New York City, and other large cities. The cities are taxing them out of business. |
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein
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Originally Posted By markmars: The truth is business are closing in places like Chicago, New York City, and other large cities. The cities are taxing them out of business. I’m taking about the suburbs. Many dive shops just don’t have the business anymore. The boomers were the big dive market and that is gone. At local dive club meetings, the vast majority are gray beards. |
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Originally Posted By OutThere: ...is not PADI doubling its rates for pros over the past few years; causing the organization to live up to it's moniker "Put Another Dollar In." No, the biggest scam in the scuba industry is the VIP program. Visual Inspections. VIP is a program that is self-imposed by the scuba industry in which the standards for conducting and evaluating cylinders is maintained (and not openly shared) by one organization: GCA. For the low, low price of $4600 per year, you can have access to the standards. The only legally required inspection is the five-year DOT hydro, visual, and eddy current testing. There is no legal requirement that a person be qualified by PSI-PCI, or any other organization, to conduct an annual visual inspection of cylinder. In fact, I have yet to meet a person who has undergone that $325 training; every shop monkey conducting inspections is just an employee of the shop who learned how to do a VIP from somebody else in the shop. (They do sell a visual inspection procedures book for $25.) As for liability, every cylinder fill station is free to fill a tank with or without a VIP sticker. They're also free to decline to fill a cylinder with a "current" VIP sticker as they are to fill one. Should a cylinder rupture during the fill, it would be the fill station's responsibility as they had the ability to decline to fill it for whatever reason they deemed appropriate. I own approximately 30 cylinders that I use to teach. My local shop charges $25 per VIP, for a total annual bill of $750. At the rates I charge for OW, I would have to teach five students just to break even on VIPs and variable costs such as PADI materials, PIC, fills, etc. Add in other fixed costs such as PADI membership and insurance, and it's clear that doing VIPs myself is an easy way to increase my per-capita margin. So, I'm going to buy the book, read it, follow the procedures, and slap my own stickers on my tanks from now on. Anyways...hot button topic, I'm sure. You can buy those stickers and you can even have them custom printed. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By floridahunter07: I get that it's different regionally, but that's ridiculous compared to what we pay here in central Florida. I think the dive shop I use charges like $15 for a VIP and fill (the fill is $7-10 for air by itself), and I still got my own VIP cert through SDI so I don't have to be bothered driving them over there, as I have 8-9 cylinders... You think I am going to break down a set of manifolded doubles more frequently than for a hydro? I know how low they have been drawn down and know who and when they were filled. |
Preferred Pronoun: Space Lord Mutherfucker
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Originally Posted By markmars: The truth is business are closing in places like Chicago, New York City, and other large cities. The cities are taxing them out of business. Originally Posted By markmars: Originally Posted By Marie: Dive ships are closing all over the place. Many of the shops in the Chicago area are 1-2 people. How many of those people who get instruction will stick with it, rather than doing a couple of dives a year? The truth is business are closing in places like Chicago, New York City, and other large cities. The cities are taxing them out of business. Where you going to dive in Chicago? Cold water diving sucks (for me) so i only go when i go someplace warm. Keys are great, hope to move there. Part of the issue in the keys is its so expensive to live there, i heard it's getting hard to keep good help. |
The chickens are more concerned...
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Originally Posted By TN-MadDog: What would it cost to get set up to fill your own tanks. I don't know, but my neighbor refills his in his garage all the time. I have been thinking about getting back into diving since I live near lake Coeur d'Alene. I have never done any fresh water diving. |
"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
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Originally Posted By TN-MadDog: What would it cost to get set up to fill your own tanks. Plan on spending around 5K minimum on a bare bones limited compresor setup. New compressor that is from a name brand and a recognized manufacturer is going to be 5K+, used compressor is anywhere from 2K and up. This will let you direct fill an AL80 in about 40ish minutes. If you are OK with risking it from a China compressor you can get a new Coltri knockoff for around $1,500.00, these have wildly varying reviews on quality, service, etc. You may need to put another couple hundred into an extra filter and water separator. If you want a bank system, then you can add another 1-10k and up easily, depending on if you buy used or new bottles and lines. There is a reason why the dive shops do everything they can to extract as much money as possible from you. This is an expensive sport! |
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You can buy blank Vis inspection stickers and sign them yourself... ETA;   Failed To Load Product Data Plenty other styles too. |
If you think I am sexy now just wait until you find out I have full medical and dental.
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
Personal pronouns are; Bro/Dude
