The Pentagon Calls Them Demons. The Ancient Greeks Called Them Daimons. Both Might Be Right (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/3/2026 10:16:15 AM EDT
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https://mazetometanoia.substack.com/p/the-pentagon-calls-them-demons-the?utm_medium=android&r=70xdhm The Pentagon calls them demons. The ancient Greeks called them daimons. What if we've been renaming the same phenomenon for 2,000 years? I wrote this piece exploring why multiple government officials involved in classified UAP programs have started using "demonic" language to describe the phenomenon, not because they're religious fundamentalists, but because the extraterrestrial hypothesis keeps failing under the weight of actual encounter data. The high-strangeness elements (telepathy, reality-bending, focus on consciousness rather than technology, systematic deception, spiritual manipulation) don't fit "physical aliens in physical craft." But they do match something humans have encountered throughout history under different names. The ancient Greeks had sophisticated frameworks for beings they called "daimons" (intermediaries between mortal and divine) that operated in liminal space. The medieval Church collapsed this entire category into "demon" (evil spirits to be rejected). We then collapsed demons into delusions, delusions into fairies, and fairies into extraterrestrials. But what if the phenomenon has been consistent, and only our interpretive frameworks keep shifting? I explore how religious studies scholar Diana Pasulka's work on "technological mysticism" reveals that modern UFO encounters function exactly like religious hierophany, experiences that transform witnesses in ways identical to mystical conversion, not technological contact. Would love to hear thoughts from this community on the daimonic framework and whether it offers better tools for discernment than our current collapsing binaries. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
 A Rocket Scientist Summoned a Demon. Then UFOs Appeared.  The RETURN of a Hidden Biblical Alien Race? | Timothy Alberino | The Glenn Beck Podcast | Ep 274 IYKYK |
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This is just my thoughts but I don't believe in actual demons. Even the guys at Chris Bledsoe's place say they encounter all these scary looking monsters that turn out to actually be friendly. Werewolves, Vampires, giant insects and reptilians, you name it! The churches twisted this into demons as in you are going to hell if you don't obey as a way to scare us sheep into submission and to rob us of our money. Jesus knew and was preaching the truth and died for doing so. There is no heaven or hell. There is just existence after death and with luck returning to source. ETA your soul is pure energy and nothing can destroy it or harm it. |
| Another great post by OP. Definitely a lot to digest. I’m wondering what is driving these high up people in the Pentagon to believe they are demonic. Obviously they have a significantly higher level of information on UAP/UFO’s than the public and quite frankly most of the gov itself knows. So it begs the question why they think they are demonic. These folks must have seen something first hand, but what could it be? Sure they might have personal religious convictions, but at the same time they are privy to information 99.999% of the public AND gov doesn’t have access to. If only we could be a fly on the wall in one of their meetings. Until then, we will have to be satisfied with a bread crumb or two. |
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Another great post by OP. Definitely a lot to digest. I’m wondering what is driving these high up people in the Pentagon to believe they are demonic. Obviously they have a significantly higher level of information on UAP/UFO’s than the public and quite frankly most of the gov itself knows. So it begs the question why they think they are demonic. These folks must have seen something first hand, but what could it be? Sure they might have personal religious convictions, but at the same time they are privy to information 99.999% of the public AND gov doesn’t have access to. If only we could be a fly on the wall in one of their meetings. Until then, we will have to be satisfied with a bread crumb or two. I think the only thing they are hiding is the constant gravy train of money flowing into the defense industry they all all heavily invested in. Nothing else. Could be wrong but I don't think so. |
| Yes, they are friendly. They are here for us. Hell, they are us from the future. They are here to guide us to a new way. No. This is called deception. They are here to guide us away from the truth. The giving of technology. Hmm. Look back upon the Watchers. They exchanged their technology for the right to breed with humans. Thus infecting the children of God. They knew the long game. To bring us away from Christ. Sound familiar in what's going on in the current? |
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver: This is just my thoughts but I don't believe in actual demons. Even the guys at Chris Bledsoe's place say they encounter all these scary looking monsters that turn out to actually be friendly. Werewolves, Vampires, giant insects and reptilians, you name it! The churches twisted this into demons as in you are going to hell if you don't obey as a way to scare us sheep into submission and to rob us of our money. Jesus knew and was preaching the truth and died for doing so. There is no heaven or hell. There is just existence after death and with luck returning to source. ETA your soul is pure energy and nothing can destroy it or harm it. I don't really think demons are different than ghosts, but a type of ghost maybe, one that is less than friendly and good to have around? Could be the ghosts/demons/poltergeists/etc could all be the same thing which could be the same as aliens outside their craft? |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
| There's 1 argument I've heard that demons are the spirits of nephilim. The OT gets passed over for the NT, which is sad. There's a lot of interesting historical & details to unpack from it, although admittedly involving conjecture in some cases. But with disciplined etymological conciseness, there's legitimate history in there that gets blatantly ignored just because it's the OT. |
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They absolutely hate human beings. And by hate I mean a burning rage of abhorrence. But they will lie to your face and say they are friendly to create joinder. |
Don't be so open-minded that your brains fall out.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
General education should not be mere job training, but training in how to be fully human.
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver: This is just my thoughts but I don't believe in actual demons. Even the guys at Chris Bledsoe's place say they encounter all these scary looking monsters that turn out to actually be friendly. Werewolves, Vampires, giant insects and reptilians, you name it! The churches twisted this into demons as in you are going to hell if you don't obey as a way to scare us sheep into submission and to rob us of our money. Jesus knew and was preaching the truth and died for doing so. There is no heaven or hell. There is just existence after death and with luck returning to source. ETA your soul is pure energy and nothing can destroy it or harm it. I’ve read a few books by Father Gabriele Amorth; An Exorcists Tell His Story, and An Exorcist Explains the Demonic. I highly recommend them. I think they really show a side to this that has been held true for people for thousands of years, but has been largely lost during the scientific revolution. People do get taken over by these entities. They are like a parasite. His books really talk frankly about them. Some info on him; “Gabriele Amorth S.S.P. was an Italian Catholic priest of the Paulines and an exorcist for the Diocese of Rome. Amorth, along with five other priests, founded the International Association of Exorcists. His work in demonology and Catholic exorcism gained him international recognition” |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Another great post by OP. Definitely a lot to digest. I’m wondering what is driving these high up people in the Pentagon to believe they are demonic. Obviously they have a significantly higher level of information on UAP/UFO’s than the public and quite frankly most of the gov itself knows. So it begs the question why they think they are demonic. These folks must have seen something first hand, but what could it be? Sure they might have personal religious convictions, but at the same time they are privy to information 99.999% of the public AND gov doesn’t have access to. If only we could be a fly on the wall in one of their meetings. Until then, we will have to be satisfied with a bread crumb or two. I am reminded of Diana Pasulka talking about Tim Taylor in American Cosmic. He was secular, a brilliant engineer. But when he got access to the Vatican Archives, it helped him wake to spirituality. That is very powerful. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By brass: I don't really think demons are different than ghosts, but a type of ghost maybe, one that is less than friendly and good to have around? Could be the ghosts/demons/poltergeists/etc could all be the same thing which could be the same as aliens outside their craft? Originally Posted By brass: Originally Posted By tnriverluver: This is just my thoughts but I don't believe in actual demons. Even the guys at Chris Bledsoe's place say they encounter all these scary looking monsters that turn out to actually be friendly. Werewolves, Vampires, giant insects and reptilians, you name it! The churches twisted this into demons as in you are going to hell if you don't obey as a way to scare us sheep into submission and to rob us of our money. Jesus knew and was preaching the truth and died for doing so. There is no heaven or hell. There is just existence after death and with luck returning to source. ETA your soul is pure energy and nothing can destroy it or harm it. I don't really think demons are different than ghosts, but a type of ghost maybe, one that is less than friendly and good to have around? Could be the ghosts/demons/poltergeists/etc could all be the same thing which could be the same as aliens outside their craft? I guess one way to describe them are as energy vampires? |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: I am reminded of Diana Pasulka talking about Tim Taylor in American Cosmic. He was secular, a brilliant engineer. But when he got access to the Vatican Archives, it helped him wake to spirituality. That is very powerful. That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 |
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 Well someone currently has that access so maybe soon we will find out what he is finding out. Isn't it interesting timing that the church got a new more open Pope at this time. Coincidence? There is no such thing. |
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Originally Posted By BlueCoyote: What if we, they, it are all nothing more than a soul? The physical body just a vessel and nothing more. All the same in different manifestations and across sometimes overlapping dimensions. Deep stuff when diving into it. Think if your soul isn't even in your body or anywhere even near it or that maybe your body doesn't even really exist at all. ????? The only thing I am now sure of is that we are all souls living the human experience. The others are just conjecture on my part although I have seen videos stating as such. True or false IDK one way or the other. This shit gets very fucking confusing in my mind. |
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Originally Posted By BlueCoyote: What if we, they, it are all nothing more than a soul? The physical body just a vessel and nothing more. All the same in different manifestations and across sometimes overlapping dimensions. Deep stuff when diving into it. I'll take this a step deeper. Take the moon for example. Simple physics proves that our moon absolutely should not and cannot exist. First it is 1/3 the size of earth and the gravitational forces between the two are not enough to hold the moon in position especially in a geostationary orbit. I think that's the phrase I'm looking for, at least the moon does not rotate on it's axis. It is the exact size and distance from the earth to completely and exactly block the sun during a lunar eclipse. There are many more oddities I can't think of atm but the moon as is had to be intelligently designed and is most likely hollow as it rang like a bell when NASA deliberately crashed one of the lunar landers in it back when the Apollo program was going. It's just absolutely nothing and I mean nothing we were taught and lead to believe from the moment of birth was actually true. I don't know how much our government really knows but when the truth comes out and it will one way or another humanity is going to be in for one hell of a wakeup call and what happens from there is the trillion dollar question. |
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Originally Posted By sq40: I am reminded of Diana Pasulka talking about Tim Taylor in American Cosmic. He was secular, a brilliant engineer. But when he got access to the Vatican Archives, it helped him wake to spirituality. That is very powerful. That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 It’s been a couple of years since I read American Cosmic, but from what I recall, Taylor (who was in the Age of Disclosure film), was something of a celebrity to the Vatican Observatory staff. That lead to a year or more of access to the Archives. Pasulka got her access for studies on Saints, as she has credentials to legitimately study there. For Taylor, I don’t think it was clear what he had access too, but it would probably be the “Woo” stuff. But Pasulka made it clear Taylor had become a beliver/Christian, if not Catholic because of it. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver: Well someone currently has that access so maybe soon we will find out what he is finding out. Isn't it interesting timing that the church got a new more open Pope at this time. Coincidence? There is no such thing. Originally Posted By tnriverluver: Originally Posted By kc-coyote: That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 Well someone currently has that access so maybe soon we will find out what he is finding out. Isn't it interesting timing that the church got a new more open Pope at this time. Coincidence? There is no such thing. It seems he might be the right Pope for the right time? I just remembered something. Not to get too far off, but I remember a story about Jimmy Carter learning the Truth about ETs and he cried. Now. Carter was known as a highly religious man. After that, his faith didn’t waver. Perhaps grew. That is interesting to me. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: It’s been a couple of years since I read American Cosmic, but from what I recall, Taylor (who was in the Age of Disclosure film), was something of a celebrity to the Vatican Observatory staff. That lead to a year or more of access to the Archives. Pasulka got her access for studies on Saints, as she has credentials to legitimately study there. For Taylor, I don’t think it was clear what he had access too, but it would probably be the “Woo” stuff. But Pasulka made it clear Taylor had become a beliver/Christian, if not Catholic because of it. Interesting. In reading stories about alleged alien abductions, I think in a few cases when the abductee invoked the name of Jesus the aliens immediately let the person go. Just some food for thought. |
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver: I'll take this a step deeper. Take the moon for example. Simple physics proves that our moon absolutely should not and cannot exist. First it is 1/3 the size of earth and the gravitational forces between the two are not enough to hold the moon in position especially in a geostationary orbit. I think that's the phrase I'm looking for, at least the moon does not rotate on it's axis. It is the exact size and distance from the earth to completely and exactly block the sun during a lunar eclipse. There are many more oddities I can't think of atm but the moon as is had to be intelligently designed and is most likely hollow as it rang like a bell when NASA deliberately crashed one of the lunar landers in it back when the Apollo program was going. It's just absolutely nothing and I mean nothing we were taught and lead to believe from the moment of birth was actually true. I don't know how much our government really knows but when the truth comes out and it will one way or another humanity is going to be in for one hell of a wakeup call and what happens from there is the trillion dollar question. There are a lot of misconceptions about the moon here. First, it's "tidally locked," which means it rotates at the same rate it revolves around the earth. There are many, many moons we've found like this in our own solar system, and it's likely a very common phenomenon. Many of the 5000+ exoplanets we've discovered are super-Jupiters orbiting very close to their parent star (for reasons having to do with the means of detection) are most likely also tidally locked. It's a mathematical inevitability in most cases of one body orbiting another over huge periods of time. The moon isn't hollow. The seismic data indicated it was made of lighter material in essence identical to the Earth's crust and doesn't have an iron core like the Earth, which is why the theory about the Mars-sized impactor hitting the Earth, merging with it, and the debris remaining in orbit coalescing into the moon was hypothesized. The moon got farther away from us by 3.8cm in 2025. It's been getting a tiny bit farther away every year, for the entire time it's been here. In a billion years, it's moved roughly 38,000 km farther away. Since it formed, it's probably moved 130,000 km farther away from the Earth. It's 384,000 km away right now. It will continue moving away, and in the far future, will be many tens of thousands of km more distant. There is no magic behind total solar eclipses. In the past, the moon always blocked the sun completely because it was closer. In the future, when it's farther away, total eclipses will no longer be possible. We just happen to live in the billion-year long stretch of time or so that the two bodies appear to cover the same angular distance. But we also get annular eclipses, partial eclipses, and hybrid eclipses. Total solar eclipses have always been possible, but in 600,000,000 years, the moon will be too far away. Existing in said billion-year or so stretch of time we do isn't special. Life evolved pretty quickly here, but it took a long time to get to complex life. It happened only 580 million years ago (giving us a 100% chance of existing in said stretch of time), although there are tenuous candidates stretching it back to 2 billion years ago (giving us a 50/50 chance of existing in said stretch of time). Even if you adhere to religion, most religions have pretty vague creation stories, including the Bible. It says God took 6 days, resting on the 7th, but it also says "and a day was as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day." Because the people writing this down had no concept of deep time. It means to God, time has no meaning. When he creates the heavens and the Earth, who's to say that didn't take him 9 billion years, and that his method wasn't the Big Bang and evolving celestial mechanics? And when he creates life, and man, who's to say that's not another few billion years, and that evolution was the method he used to do it? Only people who take the bible literally, word-for-word, find any conflict with science. They're perfectly compatible, and always have been. I may not be a believer, but I'll never tell anyone that it's not possible. I'm no atheist...just agnostic. There are solid, grounded reasons the moon is the way it is. Is it possible that it's some leftover spaceship, hollow, or whatever? Sure. There are non-zero odds. But the simplest solution, i.e. that it's a natural phenomenon, are astronomically greater. Why do we live here, where the moon happens to be exactly like it is, the Earth just perfect for life, the sun stable enough to allow it to flourish, etc.? Lesser anthropic principle...because we have to be here, or we wouldn't exist. A moon like ours may very well be critical for the evolution of complex life. Many scientists think so. And of the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, and the trillions of planets, we find ourselves on the perfect one, with this sun, this moon, large gas giants in the outer system sweeping comets and asteroids, etc., because if we didn't...we wouldn't exist. It's really that simple. Evolve somewhere like this, or nowhere. |
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Everything you can imagine, everything you've seen in movies, everything you've seen in your most amazing dreams and worst excruciating nightmares, exists. It exists, exactly as "real" as you or I. I don't care which side of the fence you're on (God or not), infinite is infinite is infinite. Let that sink in. Infinite. There are infinite universes. Now, what exactly exists and interacts with us, here on this Earth, in our little sector of "reality," is a totally different question. Personally my suggestion is to be vigilant and cautious. There absolutely are beings out there dedicated to the greater good. There absolutely are beings out there dedicated to chaos, destruction, and ignorance. There is a natural order to things, and there are rules of the game. That said, free will is free will. Nobody is going to force you to choose correctly. Sorry to terrify anyone. |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: There are a lot of misconceptions about the moon here. First, it's "tidally locked," which means it rotates at the same rate it revolves around the earth. There are many, many moons we've found like this in our own solar system, and it's likely a very common phenomenon. Many of the 5000+ exoplanets we've discovered are super-Jupiters orbiting very close to their parent star (for reasons having to do with the means of detection) are most likely also tidally locked. It's a mathematical inevitability in most cases of one body orbiting another over huge periods of time. The moon isn't hollow. The seismic data indicated it was made of lighter material in essence identical to the Earth's crust and doesn't have an iron core like the Earth, which is why the theory about the Mars-sized impactor hitting the Earth, merging with it, and the debris remaining in orbit coalescing into the moon was hypothesized. The moon got farther away from us by 3.8cm in 2025. It's been getting a tiny bit farther away every year, for the entire time it's been here. In a billion years, it's moved roughly 38,000 km farther away. Since it formed, it's probably moved 130,000 km farther away from the Earth. It's 384,000 km away right now. It will continue moving away, and in the far future, will be many tens of thousands of km more distant. There is no magic behind total solar eclipses. In the past, the moon always blocked the sun completely because it was closer. In the future, when it's farther away, total eclipses will no longer be possible. We just happen to live in the billion-year long stretch of time or so that the two bodies appear to cover the same angular distance. But we also get annular eclipses, partial eclipses, and hybrid eclipses. Total solar eclipses have always been possible, but in 600,000,000 years, the moon will be too far away. Existing in said billion-year or so stretch of time we do isn't special. Life evolved pretty quickly here, but it took a long time to get to complex life. It happened only 580 million years ago (giving us a 100% chance of existing in said stretch of time), although there are tenuous candidates stretching it back to 2 billion years ago (giving us a 50/50 chance of existing in said stretch of time). Even if you adhere to religion, most religions have pretty vague creation stories, including the Bible. It says God took 6 days, resting on the 7th, but it also says "and a day was as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day." Because the people writing this down had no concept of deep time. It means to God, time has no meaning. When he creates the heavens and the Earth, who's to say that didn't take him 9 billion years, and that his method wasn't the Big Bang and evolving celestial mechanics? And when he creates life, and man, who's to say that's not another few billion years, and that evolution was the method he used to do it? Only people who take the bible literally, word-for-word, find any conflict with science. They're perfectly compatible, and always have been. I may not be a believer, but I'll never tell anyone that it's not possible. I'm no atheist...just agnostic. There are solid, grounded reasons the moon is the way it is. Is it possible that it's some leftover spaceship, hollow, or whatever? Sure. There are non-zero odds. But the simplest solution, i.e. that it's a natural phenomenon, are astronomically greater. Why do we live here, where the moon happens to be exactly like it is, the Earth just perfect for life, the sun stable enough to allow it to flourish, etc.? Lesser anthropic principle...because we have to be here, or we wouldn't exist. A moon like ours may very well be critical for the evolution of complex life. Many scientists think so. And of the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, and the trillions of planets, we find ourselves on the perfect one, with this sun, this moon, large gas giants in the outer system sweeping comets and asteroids, etc., because if we didn't...we wouldn't exist. It's really that simple. Evolve somewhere like this, or nowhere. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By tnriverluver: I'll take this a step deeper. Take the moon for example. Simple physics proves that our moon absolutely should not and cannot exist. First it is 1/3 the size of earth and the gravitational forces between the two are not enough to hold the moon in position especially in a geostationary orbit. I think that's the phrase I'm looking for, at least the moon does not rotate on it's axis. It is the exact size and distance from the earth to completely and exactly block the sun during a lunar eclipse. There are many more oddities I can't think of atm but the moon as is had to be intelligently designed and is most likely hollow as it rang like a bell when NASA deliberately crashed one of the lunar landers in it back when the Apollo program was going. It's just absolutely nothing and I mean nothing we were taught and lead to believe from the moment of birth was actually true. I don't know how much our government really knows but when the truth comes out and it will one way or another humanity is going to be in for one hell of a wakeup call and what happens from there is the trillion dollar question. There are a lot of misconceptions about the moon here. First, it's "tidally locked," which means it rotates at the same rate it revolves around the earth. There are many, many moons we've found like this in our own solar system, and it's likely a very common phenomenon. Many of the 5000+ exoplanets we've discovered are super-Jupiters orbiting very close to their parent star (for reasons having to do with the means of detection) are most likely also tidally locked. It's a mathematical inevitability in most cases of one body orbiting another over huge periods of time. The moon isn't hollow. The seismic data indicated it was made of lighter material in essence identical to the Earth's crust and doesn't have an iron core like the Earth, which is why the theory about the Mars-sized impactor hitting the Earth, merging with it, and the debris remaining in orbit coalescing into the moon was hypothesized. The moon got farther away from us by 3.8cm in 2025. It's been getting a tiny bit farther away every year, for the entire time it's been here. In a billion years, it's moved roughly 38,000 km farther away. Since it formed, it's probably moved 130,000 km farther away from the Earth. It's 384,000 km away right now. It will continue moving away, and in the far future, will be many tens of thousands of km more distant. There is no magic behind total solar eclipses. In the past, the moon always blocked the sun completely because it was closer. In the future, when it's farther away, total eclipses will no longer be possible. We just happen to live in the billion-year long stretch of time or so that the two bodies appear to cover the same angular distance. But we also get annular eclipses, partial eclipses, and hybrid eclipses. Total solar eclipses have always been possible, but in 600,000,000 years, the moon will be too far away. Existing in said billion-year or so stretch of time we do isn't special. Life evolved pretty quickly here, but it took a long time to get to complex life. It happened only 580 million years ago (giving us a 100% chance of existing in said stretch of time), although there are tenuous candidates stretching it back to 2 billion years ago (giving us a 50/50 chance of existing in said stretch of time). Even if you adhere to religion, most religions have pretty vague creation stories, including the Bible. It says God took 6 days, resting on the 7th, but it also says "and a day was as a thousand years, and a thousand years as a day." Because the people writing this down had no concept of deep time. It means to God, time has no meaning. When he creates the heavens and the Earth, who's to say that didn't take him 9 billion years, and that his method wasn't the Big Bang and evolving celestial mechanics? And when he creates life, and man, who's to say that's not another few billion years, and that evolution was the method he used to do it? Only people who take the bible literally, word-for-word, find any conflict with science. They're perfectly compatible, and always have been. I may not be a believer, but I'll never tell anyone that it's not possible. I'm no atheist...just agnostic. There are solid, grounded reasons the moon is the way it is. Is it possible that it's some leftover spaceship, hollow, or whatever? Sure. There are non-zero odds. But the simplest solution, i.e. that it's a natural phenomenon, are astronomically greater. Why do we live here, where the moon happens to be exactly like it is, the Earth just perfect for life, the sun stable enough to allow it to flourish, etc.? Lesser anthropic principle...because we have to be here, or we wouldn't exist. A moon like ours may very well be critical for the evolution of complex life. Many scientists think so. And of the hundreds of billions of stars in our galaxy, and the trillions of planets, we find ourselves on the perfect one, with this sun, this moon, large gas giants in the outer system sweeping comets and asteroids, etc., because if we didn't...we wouldn't exist. It's really that simple. Evolve somewhere like this, or nowhere. When NASA engineers say "The moon shouldn't exist as it does", there's some pretty messed up crap going on, with composition, location, and size. All three of them have something very abnormal and when you mix all three abnormalities into one object, that makes it really freakish. Unless the abnormalities somehow cancel each other out. It'd be really cool if we could somehow fly there some day with a drilling rig and do a full core sample to see whats up with it. "It seems much easier to explain the nonexistence of the moon than its existence." -- Dr. Robin Brett, NASA Scientist “The best possible explanation for the Moon is observational error – the Moon doesn’t exist.’ "The Moon is bigger than it should be, apparently older than it should be and much lighter in mass than it should be. It occupies an unlikely orbit and is so extraordinary that all existing explanations for its presence are fraught with difficulties are none of them could be considered remotely watertight." -- Irwin Shapiro, Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics "The Moon has astonishing synchronicity with the Sun. When the Sun is at its lowest and weakest in mid-winter, the Moon is at its highest and brightest, and the reverse occurs in mid-summer. Both set at the same point on the horizon at the equinoxes and at the opposite point at the solstices. What are the chances that the Moon would naturally find an orbit so perfect that it would cover the Sun at an eclipse and appear from Earth to be the same size? What are chances that the alignments would be so perfect at the equinoxes and solstices? " -- Christopher Knight and Alan Bulter  Compilation: The Moon is Weird - No, really. The Moon does not make sense. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAzikSDmslU |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
| Maybe the upgrade we humans will get is the ability to think in quantum terms. It may be and probably is that our brains already have that ability and we just don't know how to actually use it. We live in a quantum universe where everything is infinite except in our 3D reality here on this living rock known as earth. |
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Originally Posted By tnriverluver: This is just my thoughts but I don't believe in actual demons. Even the guys at Chris Bledsoe's place say they encounter all these scary looking monsters that turn out to actually be friendly. Werewolves, Vampires, giant insects and reptilians, you name it! The churches twisted this into demons as in you are going to hell if you don't obey as a way to scare us sheep into submission and to rob us of our money. Jesus knew and was preaching the truth and died for doing so. There is no heaven or hell. There is just existence after death and with luck returning to source. ETA your soul is pure energy and nothing can destroy it or harm it. What about Jesus casting out demons? |
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
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Originally Posted By _Nataraja_: Everything you can imagine, everything you've seen in movies, everything you've seen in your most amazing dreams and worst excruciating nightmares, exists. It exists, exactly as "real" as you or I. I don't care which side of the fence you're on (God or not), infinite is infinite is infinite. Let that sink in. Infinite. There are infinite universes. Now, what exactly exists and interacts with us, here on this Earth, in our little sector of "reality," is a totally different question. Personally my suggestion is to be vigilant and cautious. There absolutely are beings out there dedicated to the greater good. There absolutely are beings out there dedicated to chaos, destruction, and ignorance. There is a natural order to things, and there are rules of the game. That said, free will is free will. Nobody is going to force you to choose correctly. Sorry to terrify anyone. The consequence of infinity are far greater, or perhaps I should say worse, than that. IF the universe/multiverse in truly infinite (nothing proves it is, or likely ever will, since our visible bit of it is limited to something around 93 billion light years) then here are the consequences of that: --Our volume of known space has something in the order of 10^89 fundamental particles in it. The actual number doesn't matter, the point is...it's a finite number of particles. --Said particles can be arranged in a large number of ways. How many? Who knows. 10^10,000,000? 10^10^10? Again...doesn't matter...it's a finite number of arrangements. So...if the universe is infinite, and you sample volumes of space equal to ours, eventually you will find one with the exact same number of particles, in the exact same arrangement. Worse, you will find an infinite number of those volumes. And an infinite number more where one particle or arrangement is different, two particles, three, etc. So, there are an infinite number of you's put there, who have made lived the same lives, made the same decisions, and have the same existences. And an infinite number more where there are minor differences, moderate differences, major differences, etc. That is the consequence of an infinite universe. That nothing you do can or will ever matter, because an infinite number of you are doing the same thing, or something different. The only thing you'll ever affect are your immediate surroundings, and the people near you (which might be all of Earth if you're one of the people with "your finger on the button," but that's a minority). OTOH, if the universe is finite, the odds of it being large enough to find an exact copy of our volume of space are non-zero, but so miniscule as to be nearly impossible. You would be the only you. If that's the case, what's the universe in? Or expanding into? "Nothing" isn't a very satisfactory answer. It's the reason I'm agnostic, but don't deny the possibility of the existence of "god." A finite universe would probably look a lot like something a concept/being/power like "god" would create. Then we could get into concepts like Boltzmann Brains (a consequence of eternal time), simulation theory, etc. All of it just ends up being a circular argument that answers nothing, just bringing up more unanswerable questions. You know...philosophy. |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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Originally Posted By brass: When NASA engineers say "The moon shouldn't exist as it does", there's some pretty messed up crap going on, with composition, location, and size. All three of them have something very abnormal and when you mix all three abnormalities into one object, that makes it really freakish. Unless the abnormalities somehow cancel each other out. It'd be really cool if we could somehow fly there some day with a drilling rig and do a full core sample to see whats up with it. But, again, every one of those phenomena and objections are explained by the weak anthropic principle. If complex, intelligent life requires significant time to develop, and won't develop at all if the conditions aren't right (sun stable over billions of years, properly sized planet in the habitable zone, large moon that influences the development of life through causing tides and surface recycling, large Jupiter-like bodies protecting life from catastrophic impact events (but not always!), etc. etc. etc.), then it's going to develop where said conditions exist. The weak anthropic argument is an incredibly powerful tool for explaining why we see what we do, and also an excellent answer to the Fermi Paradox. Is there other complex, intelligent life in the universe? Undoubtedly so, but it's rare enough, and separated from us by enough time and distance, we may never find it. Saying "the mood is weird, abnormal, and/or messed up" literally says nothing at all. It's a non-statement from the point of view I described. It's the way it is, and we happen to be here to see it, because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here. Of the uncountable moons in the universe (953 in our solar system alone at last count), a small number of them are going to be "abnormal," like ours. A smaller number will be around planets that have the ability to support life. A smaller number still around planets where life evolves, and the smallest number yet where complex, intelligent life exists. But we're dealing with such a large number of chances, there are going to be a large number of them out there. We're not even lucky to be in one of those...it's not luck if you couldn't exist if conditions were different. It's just...inevitable. |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: The consequence of infinity are far greater, or perhaps I should say worse, than that. IF the universe/multiverse in truly infinite (nothing proves it is, or likely ever will, since our visible bit of it is limited to something around 93 billion light years) then here are the consequences of that: --Our volume of known space has something in the order of 10^89 fundamental particles in it. The actual number doesn't matter, the point is...it's a finite number of particles. --Said particles can be arranged in a large number of ways. How many? Who knows. 10^10,000,000? 10^10^10? Again...doesn't matter...it's a finite number of arrangements. So...if the universe is infinite, and you sample volumes of space equal to ours, eventually you will find one with the exact same number of particles, in the exact same arrangement. Worse, you will find an infinite number of those volumes. And an infinite number more where one particle or arrangement is different, two particles, three, etc. So, there are an infinite number of you's put there, who have made lived the same lives, made the same decisions, and have the same existences. And an infinite number more where there are minor differences, moderate differences, major differences, etc. That is the consequence of an infinite universe. That nothing you do can or will ever matter, because an infinite number of you are doing the same thing, or something different. The only thing you'll ever affect are your immediate surroundings, and the people near you (which might be all of Earth if you're one of the people with "your finger on the button," but that's a minority). OTOH, if the universe is finite, the odds of it being large enough to find an exact copy of our volume of space are non-zero, but so miniscule as to be nearly impossible. You would be the only you. If that's the case, what's the universe in? Or expanding into? "Nothing" isn't a very satisfactory answer. It's the reason I'm agnostic, but don't deny the possibility of the existence of "god." A finite universe would probably look a lot like something a concept/being/power like "god" would create. Then we could get into concepts like Boltzmann Brains (a consequence of eternal time), simulation theory, etc. All of it just ends up being a circular argument that answers nothing, just bringing up more unanswerable questions. You know...philosophy. Yup, it is exactly that. There are infinite variations as well. I always have to laugh at physicists trying to find the “god” particle. The very act of looking is creating. (That’s the next step that will be found in quantum physics, not just that looking is determining, but that it is actually also creating). The easy way is that everything is a thought, for lack of an actual word, of “God.” In a sense it all doesn’t really exist, it only apparently seems to exist, relative to other things within the thought. But it can’t be said to not apparently exist either. Does a dream exist? Yes and no. Quite the pickle lol. There’s no way of proving it though, since that lies outside of conceptualization, which is part of the thought (creation). You have to experience It to know It, which is possible. Again, it’s kind of like a dream, the only way to really prove it’s a dream is to get out of the dream. |
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Originally Posted By _Nataraja_: There’s no way of proving it though, since that lies outside of conceptualization, which is part of the thought (creation). You have to experience It to know It, which is possible. Again, it’s kind of like a dream, the only way to really prove it’s a dream is to get out of the dream. I wouldn't delve too deeply into that train of thought. That path leads to the Gnostics, the Demiurge and Archons, and the invalidation of basically every established religion. It's simpler to be agnostic and just say, "I don't know, because I'm just human." |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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Originally Posted By _Nataraja_: Yup, it is exactly that. There are infinite variations as well. I always have to laugh at physicists trying to find the “god” particle. The very act of looking is creating. (That’s the next step that will be found in quantum physics, not just that looking is determining, but that it is actually also creating). I'd point out that the physicists doing those experiments are humans doing their absolute best within their frame of reference to suss out the true nature of reality. And their best might be superior to your best, or my best. They could just as easily be on the path to truth as you or I are. |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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Just random thoughts here so forgive me but the hollow earth that the high ranking guy (maybe Adm Byrd?) and his team flew into at the south pole after WW2. If that's actually true and something makes me believe it is since both the north and south pole are now no fly zones heavily restricted by the military. I have to wonder is it a 3D world or is it a quantum world down there? I need to do some googling on that story but I'm sure many of you are familiar with it and his name. I just suck at remembering names since I've always been a numbers guy my entire freaking life. It actually hurt me in my business when I had to go to people's homes and they'd tell me their names and I'd have to ask the address to remember who they were until I'd visited them several times. Often I never even meet them in person as many just left the home open or a key out for me to go in and do my thing to their home. All I really know is there is so damn much we don't know!  And are there tunnels under Giza and many other places that lead to there?
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: The consequence of infinity are far greater, or perhaps I should say worse, than that. IF the universe/multiverse in truly infinite (nothing proves it is, or likely ever will, since our visible bit of it is limited to something around 93 billion light years) then here are the consequences of that: --Our volume of known space has something in the order of 10^89 fundamental particles in it. The actual number doesn't matter, the point is...it's a finite number of particles. --Said particles can be arranged in a large number of ways. How many? Who knows. 10^10,000,000? 10^10^10? Again...doesn't matter...it's a finite number of arrangements. So...if the universe is infinite, and you sample volumes of space equal to ours, eventually you will find one with the exact same number of particles, in the exact same arrangement. Worse, you will find an infinite number of those volumes. And an infinite number more where one particle or arrangement is different, two particles, three, etc. So, there are an infinite number of you's put there, who have made lived the same lives, made the same decisions, and have the same existences. And an infinite number more where there are minor differences, moderate differences, major differences, etc. That is the consequence of an infinite universe. That nothing you do can or will ever matter, because an infinite number of you are doing the same thing, or something different. The only thing you'll ever affect are your immediate surroundings, and the people near you (which might be all of Earth if you're one of the people with "your finger on the button," but that's a minority). OTOH, if the universe is finite, the odds of it being large enough to find an exact copy of our volume of space are non-zero, but so miniscule as to be nearly impossible. You would be the only you. If that's the case, what's the universe in? Or expanding into? "Nothing" isn't a very satisfactory answer. It's the reason I'm agnostic, but don't deny the possibility of the existence of "god." A finite universe would probably look a lot like something a concept/being/power like "god" would create. Then we could get into concepts like Boltzmann Brains (a consequence of eternal time), simulation theory, etc. All of it just ends up being a circular argument that answers nothing, just bringing up more unanswerable questions. You know...philosophy. Hmm. A multiverse without the multiple universes. And that also means a version in every state and condition of time too. |
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” - Henri Bergson
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Originally Posted By sq40: Hmm. A multiverse without the multiple universes. And that also means a version in every state and condition of time too. Originally Posted By sq40: Originally Posted By Kagetora: The consequence of infinity are far greater, or perhaps I should say worse, than that. IF the universe/multiverse in truly infinite (nothing proves it is, or likely ever will, since our visible bit of it is limited to something around 93 billion light years) then here are the consequences of that: --Our volume of known space has something in the order of 10^89 fundamental particles in it. The actual number doesn't matter, the point is...it's a finite number of particles. --Said particles can be arranged in a large number of ways. How many? Who knows. 10^10,000,000? 10^10^10? Again...doesn't matter...it's a finite number of arrangements. So...if the universe is infinite, and you sample volumes of space equal to ours, eventually you will find one with the exact same number of particles, in the exact same arrangement. Worse, you will find an infinite number of those volumes. And an infinite number more where one particle or arrangement is different, two particles, three, etc. So, there are an infinite number of you's put there, who have made lived the same lives, made the same decisions, and have the same existences. And an infinite number more where there are minor differences, moderate differences, major differences, etc. That is the consequence of an infinite universe. That nothing you do can or will ever matter, because an infinite number of you are doing the same thing, or something different. The only thing you'll ever affect are your immediate surroundings, and the people near you (which might be all of Earth if you're one of the people with "your finger on the button," but that's a minority). OTOH, if the universe is finite, the odds of it being large enough to find an exact copy of our volume of space are non-zero, but so miniscule as to be nearly impossible. You would be the only you. If that's the case, what's the universe in? Or expanding into? "Nothing" isn't a very satisfactory answer. It's the reason I'm agnostic, but don't deny the possibility of the existence of "god." A finite universe would probably look a lot like something a concept/being/power like "god" would create. Then we could get into concepts like Boltzmann Brains (a consequence of eternal time), simulation theory, etc. All of it just ends up being a circular argument that answers nothing, just bringing up more unanswerable questions. You know...philosophy. Hmm. A multiverse without the multiple universes. And that also means a version in every state and condition of time too. Not perplexing at all. Nope not at all!  I simply want to meet my higher self because if I'm the highest version I'm in deep shit!
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: I wouldn't delve too deeply into that train of thought. That path leads to the Gnostics, the Demiurge and Archons, and the invalidation of basically every established religion. It's simpler to be agnostic and just say, "I don't know, because I'm just human." Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By _Nataraja_: There’s no way of proving it though, since that lies outside of conceptualization, which is part of the thought (creation). You have to experience It to know It, which is possible. Again, it’s kind of like a dream, the only way to really prove it’s a dream is to get out of the dream. I wouldn't delve too deeply into that train of thought. That path leads to the Gnostics, the Demiurge and Archons, and the invalidation of basically every established religion. It's simpler to be agnostic and just say, "I don't know, because I'm just human." I am in full agreement there, to much stuff out there that can simply drive a simple human mad. It's better to embrace simulation theory to explain some of the things we bump into here. It's like a comfy leather recliner and a tumbler of bourbon in comparison. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Originally Posted By brass: I am in full agreement there, to much stuff out there that can simply drive a simple human mad. It's better to embrace simulation theory to explain some of the things we bump into here. It's like a comfy leather recliner and a tumbler of bourbon in comparison. Yeah, it really is...which is why, although I accept it could easily be true, I don't want to believe it. It's just a bit too comfy, if you know what I mean. It answers a lot of fundamental questions just a bit too easily. Which I suppose is also a great argument for it being true. 
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Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
|
Originally Posted By Kagetora: Yeah, it really is...which is why, although I accept it could easily be true, I don't want to believe it. It's just a bit too comfy, if you know what I mean. It answers a lot of fundamental questions just a bit too easily. Which I suppose is also a great argument for it being true. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By brass: I am in full agreement there, to much stuff out there that can simply drive a simple human mad. It's better to embrace simulation theory to explain some of the things we bump into here. It's like a comfy leather recliner and a tumbler of bourbon in comparison. Yeah, it really is...which is why, although I accept it could easily be true, I don't want to believe it. It's just a bit too comfy, if you know what I mean. It answers a lot of fundamental questions just a bit too easily. Which I suppose is also a great argument for it being true. Agreed, when you get to something that is too mind bending, I just toss it into the "just a simulation" bin and look at the other new info around until something comes along that might pull something back out of the sim bin, but extraction is an extraordinary event. At the same time, if you just chuck everything into the sim bin, there's nothing left to noodle about. That bin is just to keep yourself from going mad with all the information out there, with some overlapping and other bits conflicting and new info coming out that changes interpretations, etc. I do think that several names and theories about concepts are actually describing the same event/entity, though. If we can figure that out and mesh the stories and theories together it would help a lot but some people are extremely attached to their theory, especially if they have a book (or books) on the topic. There was a whole bunch of independent naming and lore associated with something like dogman or bigfoot where it might be the same thing, but prior to the internet, nobody knew of all the strange things across the nation that we now see as quite similar to possibly the same thing. Trying to sort them together results in tantrums on people wanting to kept their local lore and name of it instead of breaking down and saying "yeah, they do share basically everything in common other than name" and moving on. We don't even have enough information to really say for sure they are the same thing, just a lot in common. For the fixed location items, I wish they'd run over them with ground penetrating radar, all the suspected burial mounds and that serpent mound in Ohio would be cool to compare so there's a database to check against when more are discovered or investigated in Central or South America. I'm still waiting on the result of the radar and particle scans of Giza pyramids to be released. We've been told they found a void but not a whole lot more than that. They should be able to draw a perfect map with the types and depths of scans performed so far. Maybe a condition of the scanning being allowed was that it wouldn't all be dumped to the public? They've hit it with ground penetrating radar (GPR), ultrasonic testing (UST), and electrical resistivity tomography (ERT) but we only have a couple spotty partial results. Then there is the labyrinth/ hallways under very shallow coating of sand discovered beneath/beside the other pyramid which has been partially released to show that there is definitely something there, but they won't allow excavation, that bugs me as well. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Originally Posted By kc-coyote: That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 Originally Posted By kc-coyote: Originally Posted By sq40: I am reminded of Diana Pasulka talking about Tim Taylor in American Cosmic. He was secular, a brilliant engineer. But when he got access to the Vatican Archives, it helped him wake to spirituality. That is very powerful. That would be a VERY interesting thread...if someone was actually able to have complete unfettered access to all of the Vatican archives. I know there was an episode or two of the Why Files where the Vatican archives was mentioned. And if I recall, didn't the Vatican act as a go between for the acorn shaped UFO discovered in Europe in the 1930's? I decided to do a quick google search and even a Catholic publication brought up the topic (of the Vatican files and UFO's). (Spoiler alert: The article doesn't give up any new info other than saying the Vatican has archives) https://www.catholic.org/news/technology/story.php?id=86465 It would be totally awesome if the entirety of archives and objects from both the Vatican archives and Smithsonian "storage" were collated/indexed and made public via the internet with 360° views of objects including ancillary information about them in original language (Greek/Hebrew/other) along with translations into English. I'd prefer the original language released so they can't get away with translation buggery as we see with all the various versions of Bible translations. It's amazing to learn at least biblical Greek and Hebrew since there are things put in a way that can't be expressed ijn English. I guess I can compare it to Spanish where objects have a gender and some concepts simply can't be translated to English as it's a feeling, hence loan words like schadenfreude and others that are concepts we don't even have. My best shot at example of language is Japanese, which has a whole lot of those where translation of a word results in a long sentence in English to try and translate and even then it's not not spot on, there isn't really a possibility of a loan word since it's not the Westernized Latin character set. One is "desire to learn" sort of concept but it doesn't cover it, it's a concept we simply don't have a word for and the best translation is still only taking a pot shot at it while truly understanding means you need to think in Japanese and there isn't a 1 to 1 mapping of words since their entire society is nothing like ours, just look at the toilets and tentacles.  But seriously, their society is very Zen like where most things are slowly deliberated and not rushed, eating is a long event, even having a cup of tea makes the British tea ceremony seem slap dash rushed. Woodworking has a respect for the wood and is mostly done by hand with the visual appeal as important as the structure and function, even if that part won't be seen. Their language follows in those concepts. There is an entirely different way of looking at things in Japan and we barbarian Americans simply cannot comprehend it since we want it perfect, easy, and now.It's kind of like the saying "If you ride a motorcycle, you already know the reason, if not, you wouldn't understand anyway" translation. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Originally Posted By brass: They've hit it with ground penetrating radar (GPR), ultrasonic testing (UST), and electrical resistivity tomography (ERT) but we only have a couple spotty partial results. Then there is the labyrinth/ hallways under very shallow coating of sand discovered beneath/beside the other pyramid which has been partially released to show that there is definitely something there, but they won't allow excavation, that bugs me as well. It's absolutely maddening. I understand the concept of "let's leave the majority of it for future excavators with better techniques, and excavate a small portion of it now for the sake of expanding knowledge." I mean the horrors of the 1800's and early 1900's are still fresh. So much destroyed and lost just to find and literally loot/pillage shiny things to fill your country's national museum. It was obscene. I don't understand the "we absolutely refuse to accept anything outside our established narrative, so there will be zero excavations done just in case we're wrong" mindset. That's equally obscene, and takes everything directly out of the realm of science and dumps it into the amusement park category. No evolution of thought, idea, or knowledge, just riding "It's a Small World" over and over at Disneyland. To add to your list, they also used some sort of muon backscattering survey on the pyramid itself, and supposedly found a large void in it. I forget the particulars, it's been a few years. Radio silence since then, as far as I can tell.  |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
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I've been saying for a while now that it's all the same phenomena with different labels throughout history. People experience things outside of their cognitive framework and they come up with an explanation to make it digestible. Angels, demons, gods, fairies, sprites, djinn, etc etc. A less religious person seeks a science-based explanation but the shit we're seeing now has been interacting with humanity since the beginning. |
Everything posted above is factual. Maybe.
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: It's absolutely maddening. I understand the concept of "let's leave the majority of it for future excavators with better techniques, and excavate a small portion of it now for the sake of expanding knowledge." I mean the horrors of the 1800's and early 1900's are still fresh. So much destroyed and lost just to find and literally loot/pillage shiny things to fill your country's national museum. It was obscene. I don't understand the "we absolutely refuse to accept anything outside our established narrative, so there will be zero excavations done just in case we're wrong" mindset. That's equally obscene, and takes everything directly out of the realm of science and dumps it into the amusement park category. No evolution of thought, idea, or knowledge, just riding "It's a Small World" over and over at Disneyland. To add to your list, they also used some sort of muon backscattering survey on the pyramid itself, and supposedly found a large void in it. I forget the particulars, it's been a few years. Radio silence since then, as far as I can tell. Originally Posted By Kagetora: Originally Posted By brass: They've hit it with ground penetrating radar (GPR), ultrasonic testing (UST), and electrical resistivity tomography (ERT) but we only have a couple spotty partial results. Then there is the labyrinth/ hallways under very shallow coating of sand discovered beneath/beside the other pyramid which has been partially released to show that there is definitely something there, but they won't allow excavation, that bugs me as well. It's absolutely maddening. I understand the concept of "let's leave the majority of it for future excavators with better techniques, and excavate a small portion of it now for the sake of expanding knowledge." I mean the horrors of the 1800's and early 1900's are still fresh. So much destroyed and lost just to find and literally loot/pillage shiny things to fill your country's national museum. It was obscene. I don't understand the "we absolutely refuse to accept anything outside our established narrative, so there will be zero excavations done just in case we're wrong" mindset. That's equally obscene, and takes everything directly out of the realm of science and dumps it into the amusement park category. No evolution of thought, idea, or knowledge, just riding "It's a Small World" over and over at Disneyland. To add to your list, they also used some sort of muon backscattering survey on the pyramid itself, and supposedly found a large void in it. I forget the particulars, it's been a few years. Radio silence since then, as far as I can tell. I know we agree on these things but another detail to add that is far different than the "dynamite archeology" is we now can use ground penetrating radar to know where digging will cause no damage as you'dll be coming down to an empty spot below since we can "see" through at least the top layers of what is there. It's like they realized they screwed up using dynamite to excavate and then removed all the relics "For the Queen" or "For Rome" and "For Money!" leaving only small fragments and stuff that isn't interesting enough to bother moving. So, since their forefathers screwed the pooch so badly that they are afraid to use power shovels to dig even when they have an excellent idea of what they're going to hit so they can stop with the heavy machinery 1-2 feet above what is seen and then check delicately from there. The whole using garden spoons for 15 feet of depth is insane, and that is after going through a multi-year uphill battle to try to excavate anything at all.. Then there's places like Göbekli Tepe, which I feel fell into your category of "proving archaeology core tenets incorrect" on things like age of civilizations and the like, so they buried those parts and left the 10% they did excavate into a "no touch and no getting super close" tourist attraction with walkways and a tent over the top of it. "Nope, nothing to see here..." I'm not saying "Tear the pyramids down... For Science", but looking at what is under sand beside a pyramid that in no way will damage the structure is something that shouldn't be shunned away from. This is regarding the 2 labyrinth type structures found, one out kind of in middle of nowhere and one next to a pyramid, Really interesting stuff on the radar re-creation/rendition of what was measured but they refuse to dig, both Egypt government not allowing it, and archaeologists not even asking due to no desire and potentially fear that their description of Egyptian science might be challenged if something new was found. |
The person who complains most, and is the most critical of others has the most to hide.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
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Originally Posted By brass: I know we agree on these things but another detail to add that is far different than the "dynamite archeology" is we now can use ground penetrating radar to know where digging will cause no damage as you'dll be coming down to an empty spot below since we can "see" through at least the top layers of what is there. It's like they realized they screwed up using dynamite to excavate and then removed all the relics "For the Queen" or "For Rome" and "For Money!" leaving only small fragments and stuff that isn't interesting enough to bother moving. So, since their forefathers screwed the pooch so badly that they are afraid to use power shovels to dig even when they have an excellent idea of what they're going to hit so they can stop with the heavy machinery 1-2 feet above what is seen and then check delicately from there. The whole using garden spoons for 15 feet of depth is insane, and that is after going through a multi-year uphill battle to try to excavate anything at all.. Then there's places like Göbekli Tepe, which I feel fell into your category of "proving archaeology core tenets incorrect" on things like age of civilizations and the like, so they buried those parts and left the 10% they did excavate into a "no touch and no getting super close" tourist attraction with walkways and a tent over the top of it. "Nope, nothing to see here..." I'm not saying "Tear the pyramids down... For Science", but looking at what is under sand beside a pyramid that in no way will damage the structure is something that shouldn't be shunned away from. This is regarding the 2 labyrinth type structures found, one out kind of in middle of nowhere and one next to a pyramid, Really interesting stuff on the radar re-creation/rendition of what was measured but they refuse to dig, both Egypt government not allowing it, and archaeologists not even asking due to no desire and potentially fear that their description of Egyptian science might be challenged if something new was found. You're not wrong. There can be a middle ground found for speed of excavation between "dynamite" and "teaspoon." Part of the problem also lies in it being a fairly small, insular field. There just aren't millions of archaeologists out there digging, and you don't want to let anyone with a backhoe and shovel go at it. Things do take time. But the complete lack of progress on the most important sites in the world is absolutely unacceptable. |
Pope Gregorius Billingsgate Callipygian Quimtickler, First of His Name
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
Chakravartin of the Feculent Multiversal Litterbox
Protodeacon of the Iniquitous
Gurkhan of the Illimitable Feline Hordes
This just popped in my feed  The Secret Book of John — The Real Reason Your Soul Came to Earth |
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Originally Posted By Kagetora: You're not wrong. There can be a middle ground found for speed of excavation between "dynamite" and "teaspoon." Part of the problem also lies in it being a fairly small, insular field. There just aren't millions of archaeologists out there digging, and you don't want to let anyone with a backhoe and shovel go at it. Things do take time. But the complete lack of progress on the most important sites in the world is absolutely unacceptable. I don't have an answer to the problem as far as preserving ancient history but when I see the museum they built and filled with all the artifacts they have recovered out of the Giza plateau, exactly how long do you think that museum will survive a major cataclysm in the future? Those relics lasted thousands of years where they were found and at best that building will last 50-100 years. And that's not counting the many thousands of relics stolen and now hidden somewhere in private collections likely to never see the light of day again.
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 VATICAN HID FOR 2000 YEARS: Jesus Revealed Parallel Worlds After Death! SHOCK! |
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