The Iranian SAM causing some problems (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: Today 2:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: mcantu][Edited]
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The AD-08 Majid Optical/Infrared targeting Imaging Infrared Guidance Max Range: 5mi Max Altitude: 20k ft Max Target Detection: 9mi 100% passive No search radar to give position away No targeting radar to indicate missile lock-on Scorecard so far: US F-35 (damaged) US F-15E (destroyed) Saudi F-15 (destroyed) US F/A-18 (near miss)  The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems  F/A-18 Hit by Shoulder-Fired Missile — Real or Fake?  Moment Iranian air defence missile hits US fighter jet
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Originally Posted By mcantu: The AD-08 Majid Optical/Infrared targeting Imaging Infrared Guidance Max Range: 5mi Max Altitude: 20k ft 100% passive No search radar to give position away No targeting radar to indicate missile lock-on Scorecard so far: US F-35 (damaged) US F-15E (destroyed) Saudi F-15 (destroyed) US F/A-18 (near miss) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HJakUSpWgAEMWrQ?format=jpg&name=large The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BmPmor5-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkcFDf_oD8
Wont downplay the threat, but the scope. AI says over/approximately 500 aircraft have conducted air conbat ops over iran for 36,000 combined sorties total internationally. To me, that represents less of a SAM "problem" and more statistical luck. |
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Originally Posted By belted_guns: Where are they getting their electronics from? No way those are home grown. China. They have a rail line that goes through some former Soviet States (Turkmenistan as an example), right into Iran. Oil gets shipped that way as well. However, there are lots of boats and well, it's not hard to do it that way as well. The only thing the Russians/Chinese never want to share is actual nuclear weapons stuff. Well, mostly because even the Russians and Chinese know the Iranians will use them. |
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| Yeah they sometimes get me in DCS as well, I am not surprised our jets are getting slapped by it but the lesson is to remain very low or very high when ingressing. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems When have we needed one? I know the air force gets a lot of grief about things like CAS, but complete and total air superiority doesn't seem like something they have trouble with. |
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Originally Posted By wgjhsafT: China. They have a rail line that goes through some former Soviet States (Turkmenistan as an example), right into Iran. Oil gets shipped that way as well. However, there are lots of boats and well, it's not hard to do it that way as well. Why we allow Iran to have things like rail lines, seaports, and airports when we're in a conflict with them and we know its going to be used for resupply is beyond me. |
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Originally Posted By BB: Dont we have IRCMs for that? That means we'd have to obtain a majid seeker head, reverse engineer it, then design and test the countermeasures to defeat it. There is no 100% solution (especially against modern imaging seekers like this). If that has been done and how well the countermeasure works is not public knowledge. This is a very short range missile, basically a manpad on a truck with a more capable cueing system. This is why we default to using weapons that keep our aircraft out of the range of small missiles. |
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Originally Posted By shaggy: Why we allow Iran to have things like rail lines, seaports, and airports when we're in a conflict with them and we know its going to be used for resupply is beyond me. "Quid pro quo." |
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Originally Posted By Snozberry: Wont downplay the threat, but the scope. AI says over/approximately 500 aircraft have conducted air conbat ops over iran for 36,000 combined sorties total internationally. To me, that represents less of a SAM "problem" and more statistical luck. Originally Posted By Snozberry: Originally Posted By mcantu: The AD-08 Majid Optical/Infrared targeting Imaging Infrared Guidance Max Range: 5mi Max Altitude: 20k ft 100% passive No search radar to give position away No targeting radar to indicate missile lock-on Scorecard so far: US F-35 (damaged) US F-15E (destroyed) Saudi F-15 (destroyed) US F/A-18 (near miss) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HJakUSpWgAEMWrQ?format=jpg&name=large The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BmPmor5-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkcFDf_oD8
Wont downplay the threat, but the scope. AI says over/approximately 500 aircraft have conducted air conbat ops over iran for 36,000 combined sorties total internationally. To me, that represents less of a SAM "problem" and more statistical luck. 36000 sorties and 3 hits, that 0.002% success on target ID and hits of allied fighters. I like those odds. |
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Probably because we want Iran to allow international access to a major shipping lane. "Quid pro quo." Hows that working out? |
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Originally Posted By Morgan321: This is a very short range missile, basically a manpad on a truck with a more capable cueing system. This is why we default to using weapons that keep our aircraft out of the range of small missiles. |
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Originally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Just hit the breaks and let it fly by, then switch to guns. Originally Posted By whiskey_bravo: Originally Posted By 1245xx: Can our pilots wait till they get close and then turn sharply to the left or right and evade the rocket? Or do a loop, then zoom in behind the missile and blow it up? Just hit the breaks and let it fly by, then switch to guns. but what if it's inverted? |
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Originally Posted By raverill: Surely we can blind that missile with some decoy IR signal? It says optical as well for the seeker head. So it might be able to recognize that one thermal target turned in to 10 and just go after the largest visual target. |
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Originally Posted By shaggy: Hows that working out? Originally Posted By shaggy: Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Probably because we want Iran to allow international access to a major shipping lane. "Quid pro quo."  Personally, I’d be fine with bombing railways as retaliation for the straight remaining blocked/closed. |
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Originally Posted By mcantu: The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems 180 M-SHORAD have been fielded to four ADA BNs so far in Germany and CONUS and IFPC 2 is coming online now (with AIM-9X interceptors). |
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Originally Posted By OutThere: 180 M-SHORAD have been fielded to four ADA BNs so far in Germany and CONUS and IFPC 2 is coming online now (with AIM-9X interceptors). IFPC-2 is a good step but still has to be connected to a radar for search and targeting |
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Originally Posted By shaggy: Why we allow Iran to have things like rail lines, seaports, and airports when we're in a conflict with them and we know its going to be used for resupply is beyond me. 100% this. Could you imagine in 1945. Oh that's just the rail line that the Germans are using to give the Japanese weapons. We better not destroy it, it's civilian infrastructure. Just WTF. |
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Originally Posted By Morgan321: What if they only used this system 3 times and had a 100% hit rate? Originally Posted By Morgan321: Originally Posted By jim02: 36000 sorties and 3 hits, that 0.002% success on target ID and hits of allied fighters. I like those odds. The numbers remain the same. Does not change anything. If they suddenly pull 2000 of these units out of hiding and they have a 100% success rate and start dropping planes on a daily, well then we have a problem. But I highly doubt that is the situation, they would be using them already. It’s more likely this is one of a few left in operation. |
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Originally Posted By wgjhsafT: China. They have a rail line that goes through some former Soviet States (Turkmenistan as an example), right into Iran. Oil gets shipped that way as well. However, there are lots of boats and well, it's not hard to do it that way as well. The only thing the Russians/Chinese never want to share is actual nuclear weapons stuff. Well, mostly because even the Russians and Chinese know the Iranians will use them. Seems like a target ripe for being utterly destroyed in multiple places that aren’t easily repairable. And keep fucking it up as they attempt to repair it. |
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Originally Posted By CTYC313: When have we needed one? I know the air force gets a lot of grief about things like CAS, but complete and total air superiority doesn't seem like something they have trouble with. So explain Iran. And Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, and Syria and all the other bases that have been hit repeatedly. |
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Originally Posted By jim02: 36000 sorties and 3 hits, that 0.002% success on target ID and hits of allied fighters. I like those odds. Yes, great odds. Id volunteer to be a back seater if there was any contribution I could make besides screaming like a bitch at every turn. BUT, Iran doesnt need to cause WWII level losses. Look at the circus we went through to rescue our two F15 crew (rightfully so). We lost a fleet of aircraft in that one Op and possibly (probably) was the reason Trump lost his nerve and gave up. Iran watched that and realized all they have to do is shoot down very few planes and eventually capture a pilot to force the USA to capitulate.. |
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Probably because we want Iran to allow international access to a major shipping lane. "Quid pro quo." Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Originally Posted By shaggy: Why we allow Iran to have things like rail lines, seaports, and airports when we're in a conflict with them and we know its going to be used for resupply is beyond me. "Quid pro quo." Make sense. That said if you can't assert complete sea dominance over a vital economic waterway, why enter into a conflict when that would be a known effect. I should clarify, the will to do so. |
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I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances.
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Originally Posted By Snozberry: Wont downplay the threat, but the scope. AI says over/approximately 500 aircraft have conducted air conbat ops over iran for 36,000 combined sorties total internationally. To me, that represents less of a SAM "problem" and more statistical luck. Originally Posted By Snozberry: Originally Posted By mcantu: The AD-08 Majid Optical/Infrared targeting Imaging Infrared Guidance Max Range: 5mi Max Altitude: 20k ft 100% passive No search radar to give position away No targeting radar to indicate missile lock-on Scorecard so far: US F-35 (damaged) US F-15E (destroyed) Saudi F-15 (destroyed) US F/A-18 (near miss) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/HJakUSpWgAEMWrQ?format=jpg&name=large The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7BmPmor5-4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhkcFDf_oD8
Wont downplay the threat, but the scope. AI says over/approximately 500 aircraft have conducted air conbat ops over iran for 36,000 combined sorties total internationally. To me, that represents less of a SAM "problem" and more statistical luck. To put this in perspective, we lost nearly one aircraft per day of combat in Desert Storm. We have come a long way. |
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Originally Posted By CTYC313: When have we needed one? I know the air force gets a lot of grief about things like CAS, but complete and total air superiority doesn't seem like something they have trouble with. Originally Posted By CTYC313: Originally Posted By mcantu: The US hasn't had a real SHORAD platform since the M48 Chaparral was retired in the 90s, and that was limited by the 70s-90s tech. The Avenger and other MANPAD based systems don't count. Those are like last ditch point-defense systems When have we needed one? I know the air force gets a lot of grief about things like CAS, but complete and total air superiority doesn't seem like something they have trouble with. TBH we have needed them in this war to counter drones, though our requirements are different from Iran’s. But yes, historically we haven’t put as much effort toward surface to air weapons because we didn’t need them as much as our enemies. |
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Originally Posted By 1245xx: Can our pilots wait till they get close and then turn sharply to the left or right and evade the rocket? Or do a loop, then zoom in behind the missile and blow it up? You have to know it’s coming. That’s harder with a passive system. IIRC all of the A-10 pilots shot down in Desert Storm were hit by IR SAMS they never saw. |
