Posted: 4/27/2025 2:31:50 PM EDT
|
Anyone got a link for that Was talking in another thread and forced reset 1911 got mentioned again Quoted: A broad patent like that can't hold up because forced reset 1911's were patented 80+ years ago. I’ve seen a force reset 1911 patent mentioned before but haven’t seen the papers on it |
|
Try searching here Good luck. The language and wording used to describe the patents can be confusing. During the 1930s and in particular the 1940s, there were a whole swath of patents related to firearms. I did find some patents that might be what you’re looking for. One appeared to be three-round burst. Keywords and patience… maybe a pot or two of coffee to help you along. |
|
Quoted: Try searching here Good luck. The language and wording used to describe the patents can be confusing. During the 1930s and in particular the 1940s, there were a whole swath of patents related to firearms. I did find some patents that might be what you’re looking for. One appeared to be three-round burst. Keywords and patience… maybe a pot or two of coffee to help you along. Another good source: https://www.uspto.gov/patents/search |
|
Quoted: To be clear, the patent didn't say forced reset. It was a machinegun patent that operated by pushing the trigger forward. No problem man Even the fact that you remember about something like that is important enough to dig into at some point The word doesn’t have to be exact. The mechanical motion or process is the key thing Maybe part of that concept can be used somehow |
|
Quoted: No problem man Even the fact that you remember about something like that is important enough to dig into at some point The word doesn’t have to be exact. The mechanical motion or process is the key thing Maybe part of that concept can be used somehow Quoted: Quoted: To be clear, the patent didn't say forced reset. It was a machinegun patent that operated by pushing the trigger forward. No problem man Even the fact that you remember about something like that is important enough to dig into at some point The word doesn’t have to be exact. The mechanical motion or process is the key thing Maybe part of that concept can be used somehow IIRC it is the claims in the patent that have to be novel. The rest of the patent is basically there just to support the claims. |
|
Quoted: No problem man Even the fact that you remember about something like that is important enough to dig into at some point The word doesn’t have to be exact. The mechanical motion or process is the key thing Maybe part of that concept can be used somehow I started a thread about forced resets as an NFA skirt in the Armory here back in the 2004-2006 area. Someone here posted that patent/gun as a response as to why forced resets are a machine gun. I want to say there’s another “machine gun” that used it too. |
|
I just saw this. I assume it might be you. https://www.reddit.com/r/supersafety/s/yaxlkpW491 Ref: https://web.archive.org/web/20250428020706/https://patents.google.com/patent/US2056975A/en |
|
Quoted: I just saw this. I assume it might be you. https://www.reddit.com/r/supersafety/s/yaxlkpW491 Ref: https://web.archive.org/web/20250428020706/https://patents.google.com/patent/US2056975A/en i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically  pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. |
|
Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. By the time his patent was approved, his design no longer met the legal definition of a machinegun. |
|
Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. Quoted: Quoted: I just saw this. I assume it might be you. https://www.reddit.com/r/supersafety/s/yaxlkpW491 Ref: https://web.archive.org/web/20250428020706/https://patents.google.com/patent/US2056975A/en i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. So, a 1911 FRT... Attached File |
|
Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. So, sounds like he's describing bumpfiring. ?? |
|
Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. I can't take credit at all for finding it. I just happened to see it and thought of this thread earlier yesterday. I assumed It was not coincidental. Looks like this might be a little bit of a game changer with RB /ABC IP. |
|
Quoted: I started a thread about forced resets as an NFA skirt in the Armory here back in the 2004-2006 area. Someone here posted that patent/gun as a response as to why forced resets are a machine gun. I want to say there’s another “machine gun” that used it too. Figured that had made its rounds here at some point over the years man. These general concepts are not new as you showed folks years ago Well I do have a Glock frt thing I made one day when the mechanics of it popped into my head. Function checks fine. Never shot it cause I already made a bump Glock thing years ago. So I already shot my G21 like that thus proving to myself I could do Glock frt was good enough for me at that time. The bump Glock thing is fun. May start running those again if folks want them |
|
Quoted: Figured that had made its rounds here at some point over the years man. These general concepts are not new as you showed folks years ago Well I do have a Glock frt thing I made one day when the mechanics of it popped into my head. Function checks fine. Never shot it cause I already made a bump Glock thing years ago. So I already shot my G21 like that thus proving to myself I could do Glock frt was good enough for me at that time. The bump Glock thing is fun. May start running those again if folks want them Quoted: Quoted: I started a thread about forced resets as an NFA skirt in the Armory here back in the 2004-2006 area. Someone here posted that patent/gun as a response as to why forced resets are a machine gun. I want to say there’s another “machine gun” that used it too. Figured that had made its rounds here at some point over the years man. These general concepts are not new as you showed folks years ago Well I do have a Glock frt thing I made one day when the mechanics of it popped into my head. Function checks fine. Never shot it cause I already made a bump Glock thing years ago. So I already shot my G21 like that thus proving to myself I could do Glock frt was good enough for me at that time. The bump Glock thing is fun. May start running those again if folks want them Hmm my G19C in the 20/20 brace would be pretty rad with a frt. No idea if these sites are legit, but it appears to be an option already on the market. https://ursa-sec.com/products/glock-frt-beta https://www.freedomfingertriggers.com/product/pembie-s-glock-frt-thick-pin-fft-cut-/11 |
|
Quoted: Figured that had made its rounds here at some point over the years man. These general concepts are not new as you showed folks years ago Well I do have a Glock frt thing I made one day when the mechanics of it popped into my head. Function checks fine. Never shot it cause I already made a bump Glock thing years ago. So I already shot my G21 like that thus proving to myself I could do Glock frt was good enough for me at that time. The bump Glock thing is fun. May start running those again if folks want them Quoted: Quoted: I started a thread about forced resets as an NFA skirt in the Armory here back in the 2004-2006 area. Someone here posted that patent/gun as a response as to why forced resets are a machine gun. I want to say there’s another “machine gun” that used it too. Figured that had made its rounds here at some point over the years man. These general concepts are not new as you showed folks years ago Well I do have a Glock frt thing I made one day when the mechanics of it popped into my head. Function checks fine. Never shot it cause I already made a bump Glock thing years ago. So I already shot my G21 like that thus proving to myself I could do Glock frt was good enough for me at that time. The bump Glock thing is fun. May start running those again if folks want them Attached File |
|
Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. The drawing just looks like a foregrip with a push button that contains batteries and a light. |
|
Quoted: The drawing just looks like a foregrip with a push button that contains batteries and a light. Quoted: Quoted: i dont go over there very cool you found it right there it is only thing is he did not make a machine gun he thought he did but legally that is still single function of the trigger does not act automatically https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/519336/1911_FRT_PAT_PIC-3527842.png pdf link https://web.archive.org/web/20250103033324mp_/https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/ed/a2/99/742bcba4ebb3a1/US2056975.pdf Having now described and illustrated one form of my invention, I wish it to be understood that my invention is not to be limited to the Specific form or arrangement of parts hereinbefore de scribed, except insofar as such limitations are specified in the appended claims. cairn: 1. In a machine-gun, having the conventional parts including stock, barrel, chamber, maga zine, and means for ejecting exploded cartridges and for inserting new cartridges into the cham ber the combination of: a slide; a hammer, So pro portioned and positioned that the rear Ward mO tion of the slide, under the influence of recoil, will cock the hammer; means to lock the hammer cocked; a trigger, so proportioned and positioned that, after being pulled to fire the gun, it must move forward before it will be in condition to fire again; means, under the influence of the re coil of the slide, to thus move the trigger for Ward against the pressure of the trigger-finger of the operator, but leave it held in operative position against the pressure of the trigger-fin ger of the operator; and means, under the influ ence of the counter recoil of the slide, to free the trigger for firing, under the influence of contin uled pressure of the trigger-finger. The drawing just looks like a foregrip with a push button that contains batteries and a light. You have to read the claims. Back in '34 when the patent was applied for they had to hand draw everything. That's probably why there aren't as many drawings. |
|
Quoted: Is that the mechanism Hyman Lehman used for the "Dillinger" guns? http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q60/rhmc24/GUNS%20OTHER/ColtDillengerFullauto.jpg |
|
Quoted: Is that the mechanism Hyman Lehman used for the "Dillinger" guns? http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q60/rhmc24/GUNS%20OTHER/ColtDillengerFullauto.jpg if so then it would be legal single function of the trigger |
|
Quoted: Is that the mechanism Hyman Lehman used for the "Dillinger" guns? http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q60/rhmc24/GUNS%20OTHER/ColtDillengerFullauto.jpg |
|
Quoted: I didn't make this, but the information is getting out. Saw this on FB https://i.imgur.com/Wy3Pjfh.jpeg A patent only gives you the right to sue someone you think may have infringed on it. - My Uncle |
|
Quoted: I didn't make this, but the information is getting out. Saw this on FB https://i.imgur.com/Wy3Pjfh.jpeg Yep some of the reset stuff has been around a long time. I never fished around back that far but now it’s got me interested to see what the gun folks back then were thinking. |