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Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:20:47 PM EST
[#1]
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Originally Posted By KC0433:
Repeating the same thing expecting different results. Have they changed the definition of insanity yet, too?
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Originally Posted By KC0433:
Originally Posted By planemaker:


That's like saying that yelling at the clouds makes them go away. Gee, if the first two shots didn't work, we'll just keep jabbing away till they do by golly!
Repeating the same thing expecting different results. Have they changed the definition of insanity yet, too?


Nope!
They don't revise, they deny, and gaslight themselves so badly they're trying to gaslight YOU with the runoff.

Attachment Attached File
fnh
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:22:36 PM EST
[#2]
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Ender875:
Originally Posted By martin248:




The vaccines did a great job of delaying the current spike until today. It took COVID-19 a year to defeat vaccine immunity and we put the year to good use. Now we have paxlovid, molnupiravir, monoclonals, dexamethasone, home rapid tests, a better understanding of oxygen protocols and a weaker virus. Time gave us much better options.



Do you realize the irony of posting this last sentence in a post about moving the goal posts?  Vaccines delayed the current spike?  Maybe CAUSED the current spike being leaky and not all that good.


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:25:37 PM EST
[#3]
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Ok, you got me.  It’s a vast world wide conspiracy involving every government, health care employee, scientist and teacher.  Involving millions of co-conspirators, but no one has cracked yet.  Carry on

My how people love to imagine themselves as victims.  Hint:  most of us aren’t as important as we like to imagine.  We live, we die, no shadowy global super cabal cares.  But it makes for good novels.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no "moving goal posts" in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.

Another lol.


What do you disagree with?  

Nothing in my post is even remotely controversial.
Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


That is what is laughable.  There is no adapting or adjusting other than the .gov trying to cover up lies and misinformation they uttered earlier.


Ok, you got me.  It’s a vast world wide conspiracy involving every government, health care employee, scientist and teacher.  Involving millions of co-conspirators, but no one has cracked yet.  Carry on

My how people love to imagine themselves as victims.  Hint:  most of us aren’t as important as we like to imagine.  We live, we die, no shadowy global super cabal cares.  But it makes for good novels.


Only a complete imbecile would be unable to see the .gov has been lying about all of this from the beginning. Even a retard should have known when Fraudci was claiming that masks do nothing and besides we need to save them for our health care workers (literally said this), that was an example of outright falsehoods that have been endemic from the beginning.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:28:06 PM EST
[#4]
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Originally Posted By martin248:


Two different questions here:

1. Did the vaccine in practice reduce risk sufficient that rational people would go back to life as normal - YES

2. Did the government adopt sensible, data driven policies based on that reduction in risk - HELL NO
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Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By Scoobysmak:


This is the only reason many got the jab, was to return to normal.  Look how that turned out, are Shitshow schools open today..yes or no question?.

...they had "BREAK THROUGH" cases where they had to start reporting on it in July.  I will not argue that it might have helped in the beginning but your defeat line is pure BS.

Yeah like treating people the day they get sick instead of a note...call us if you can't breath.


Two different questions here:

1. Did the vaccine in practice reduce risk sufficient that rational people would go back to life as normal - YES

2. Did the government adopt sensible, data driven policies based on that reduction in risk - HELL NO


Half right. The harmful experimental gene therapy shots didn't reduce anything much less actual risk and hence we haven't and can't go back to life as normal until we undo the most foolhardy public "health" failure in history.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:35:22 PM EST
[#5]
We don't have anything about education/schools.  Originally we had to close all schools to protect the kids. Now Herr Fauci says kids are being harmed by being kept away from school.

I'm not sure if it fits under the heading of 'moving the goalposts' but we could have a whole section dedicated to 'rules for thee and rules for me'. There's a list of folks in power who set the goalposts for us common-folk, but then they break them when they think nobody is looking. For example:
a. To protect everyone, all restaurants and bars needed to be closed.  Then videos emerged of politicians having back room dinners with no masks.
b. To protect workers, salons and barbers need to be closed.  Except the one that Nancy Pelosi visited without a mask.
c. Michigan had a statewide lockdown with no travel allowed. Folks couldn't travel to their own cottages. Except when the governor's husband called the harbor and demanded they get his boat out for Memorial Day weekend.
d. Everyone who tests positive must quarantine for 14/10/87 days, except for healthcare workers. They can come back to work as soon as they are fever-free because they know how to protect themselves.

it goes on and on and on. . .
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:37:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: S13] [#6]
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Ok, you got me.  It's a vast world wide conspiracy involving every government, health care employee, scientist and teacher.  Involving millions of co-conspirators, but no one has cracked yet.  Carry on

My how people love to imagine themselves as victims.  Hint:  most of us aren't as important as we like to imagine.  We live, we die, no shadowy global super cabal cares.  But it makes for good novels.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no "moving goal posts" in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.

Another lol.


What do you disagree with?  

Nothing in my post is even remotely controversial.
Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


That is what is laughable.  There is no adapting or adjusting other than the .gov trying to cover up lies and misinformation they uttered earlier.


Ok, you got me.  It's a vast world wide conspiracy involving every government, health care employee, scientist and teacher.  Involving millions of co-conspirators, but no one has cracked yet.  Carry on

My how people love to imagine themselves as victims.  Hint:  most of us aren't as important as we like to imagine.  We live, we die, no shadowy global super cabal cares.  But it makes for good novels.



 you don't think the .gov is lying/blowing out their ass about a bunch of crap involving the virus/vaccine?  
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 9:40:25 PM EST
[#7]
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Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
it's not politicians being wrong. It's doctors and scientists. They won't admit they were wrong. Which is what makes good science.
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Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


What do you disagree with?  

Nothing in my post is even remotely controversial.

The "finest scientists" and drug manufacturers put all their eggs in one basket that is not as advertised, and has the potential to cause a lot of harm to those who trusted them.
Throughout history the things medical science would do is to find effective treatments for symptoms, and if a cure is possible, explore a route to effect that.
What modern medicine did was to ignore patients until their viral load was so bad they were dying by the thousands.
Any virologist will tell you that a corona virus is rapidly mutating, and attempting to get ahead of it with a shot is pretty much impossible, hence no cure for the common cold.
This shot was pissing in the wind, and benefited those in power and their corporate friends.
We have gone from life back to normal after your two shots to massive spikes in new infections that pretty much ignore the shot.
If that is the same as your buzz word laden post, them we agree. If not, then we disagree.


Everything you've said is correct, and none of it contradicts a single word in my post.

I've worked with the "smartest people in the room" in my field.  They are often wrong.  All humans are.  Anyone who thinks the "finest scientists" are never wrong is delusional.

I am wrong. Often. I admit it.  The lack of humility from "those in charge" is a big problem.


How is that different this time around?

I've yet to hear Bush or Cheney say Iraq was not responsible for 9-11.  I would be more surprised to hear a politician say they were wrong.  That would be unprecedented.
it's not politicians being wrong. It's doctors and scientists. They won't admit they were wrong. Which is what makes good science.



It goes way beyond that.   They didn't speak out in the very beginning knowing policies being implemented were opposite of what was actual 'science' backed.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:15:53 PM EST
[#8]
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Originally Posted By sherrick13:



 you don't think the .gov is lying/blowing out their ass about a bunch of crap involving the virus/vaccine?  
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Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no "moving goal posts" in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.

Another lol.


What do you disagree with?  

Nothing in my post is even remotely controversial.
Much of what is considered "moving goal posts" is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


That is what is laughable.  There is no adapting or adjusting other than the .gov trying to cover up lies and misinformation they uttered earlier.


Ok, you got me.  It's a vast world wide conspiracy involving every government, health care employee, scientist and teacher.  Involving millions of co-conspirators, but no one has cracked yet.  Carry on

My how people love to imagine themselves as victims.  Hint:  most of us aren't as important as we like to imagine.  We live, we die, no shadowy global super cabal cares.  But it makes for good novels.



 you don't think the .gov is lying/blowing out their ass about a bunch of crap involving the virus/vaccine?  


Of course they are.  That is what governments do.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:17:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 999monkeys] [#9]
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Originally Posted By planemaker:


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!
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Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Ender875:
Originally Posted By martin248:




The vaccines did a great job of delaying the current spike until today. It took COVID-19 a year to defeat vaccine immunity and we put the year to good use. Now we have paxlovid, molnupiravir, monoclonals, dexamethasone, home rapid tests, a better understanding of oxygen protocols and a weaker virus. Time gave us much better options.



Do you realize the irony of posting this last sentence in a post about moving the goal posts?  Vaccines delayed the current spike?  Maybe CAUSED the current spike being leaky and not all that good.


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!


Perhaps.  Hindsight is usually 20/20 after all and we can armchair quarterback every decision ever made in the history of mankind.

This is interesting though.  Recall, we did not have Omicron 18 months ago.

In fact, this thread could aptly be called “Let’s armchair quarterback Covid now that we have the benefit of hindsight” and every post would still apply.


Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:22:59 PM EST
[#10]
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Originally Posted By TrainSafe:
We don't have anything about education/schools.  Originally we had to close all schools to protect the kids. Now Herr Fauci says kids are being harmed by being kept away from school.

I'm not sure if it fits under the heading of 'moving the goalposts' but we could have a whole section dedicated to 'rules for thee and rules for me'. There's a list of folks in power who set the goalposts for us common-folk, but then they break them when they think nobody is looking. For example:
a. To protect everyone, all restaurants and bars needed to be closed.  Then videos emerged of politicians having back room dinners with no masks.
b. To protect workers, salons and barbers need to be closed.  Except the one that Nancy Pelosi visited without a mask.
c. Michigan had a statewide lockdown with no travel allowed. Folks couldn't travel to their own cottages. Except when the governor's husband called the harbor and demanded they get his boat out for Memorial Day weekend.
d. Everyone who tests positive must quarantine for 14/10/87 days, except for healthcare workers. They can come back to work as soon as they are fever-free because they know how to protect themselves.

it goes on and on and on. . .
View Quote


That's a good one, real good, once I'm up to it I'll put that on the list
Meanwhile those same healthcare workers were eventually fired for not being vaccinated, despite having natural immunity in many cases.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:28:53 PM EST
[#11]
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Perhaps.  Hindsight is usually 20/20 after all and we can armchair quarterback every decision ever made in the history of mankind.

This is interesting though.  Recall, we did not have Omicron 18 months ago.

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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Ender875:
Originally Posted By martin248:




The vaccines did a great job of delaying the current spike until today. It took COVID-19 a year to defeat vaccine immunity and we put the year to good use. Now we have paxlovid, molnupiravir, monoclonals, dexamethasone, home rapid tests, a better understanding of oxygen protocols and a weaker virus. Time gave us much better options.



Do you realize the irony of posting this last sentence in a post about moving the goal posts?  Vaccines delayed the current spike?  Maybe CAUSED the current spike being leaky and not all that good.


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!


Perhaps.  Hindsight is usually 20/20 after all and we can armchair quarterback every decision ever made in the history of mankind.

This is interesting though.  Recall, we did not have Omicron 18 months ago.



There were public officials calling for "letting it rip" both here and in the UK at the time. Sadly, we didn't do that and as a result, lots of people died, our economy was crushed, and we now have an illegitimate communist regime running the country.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:29:48 PM EST
[#12]
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Originally Posted By sherrick13:



It goes way beyond that.   They didn't speak out in the very beginning knowing policies being implemented were opposite of what was actual 'science' backed.
View Quote


My theory on some of that, the quick and lazy version:
- Medicine selects for (ambitious people yes, but), often for agreeable, good students.
Students who can follow direction, follow rules, stay in school without getting kicked out, etc.
Some kind, intelligent people.

- In the business field, it may select for mavericks, particularly in small business where getting along with corporate bosses is not a factor.
If a "maverick" gets a gutsy business call right, their business grows quickly. They identified something that everyone else may have looked at and dismissed.
If they get it wrong, they go bankrupt
There is room in that field to freelance

- Medicine is not like that
Freelancing could kill someone. The consequences are much more dire, the "goes and no goes" much more defined.
The education, training, tools, are so complicated - that even for very smart people, you're not going to be a master of all things.
Your GP is very mortal, as is the guy who does a rotator cuff surgery. There were limits to their intelligence, and big electric guard-rails holding them into their lane.

HOWEVER, it betrayed them in this case.
When The FactTM and The ScienceTM was handed down from on high?
They assumed the same care, research, trial and error was applied to all this garbage Fauci handed down.
They were effectively "yes men" and "yes women" in many cases.

Despite the degrees and the eye-watering W2s, they're still mortal people.
They still believe silly things, they can certainly be afraid of things people are afraid of.
They got sucked in, as did a lot of people.

One of the sadder quotes that flew around GD during all the media PsyOps they've been so shamelessly pushing onto the American public since 2015?
"A smart dog is easier to train. It helps them remember the commands."
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:33:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 999monkeys] [#13]
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Originally Posted By planemaker:


There were public officials calling for "letting it rip" both here and in the UK at the time. Sadly, we didn't do that and as a result, lots of people died, our economy was crushed, and we now have an illegitimate communist regime running the country.
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Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Ender875:
Originally Posted By martin248:




The vaccines did a great job of delaying the current spike until today. It took COVID-19 a year to defeat vaccine immunity and we put the year to good use. Now we have paxlovid, molnupiravir, monoclonals, dexamethasone, home rapid tests, a better understanding of oxygen protocols and a weaker virus. Time gave us much better options.



Do you realize the irony of posting this last sentence in a post about moving the goal posts?  Vaccines delayed the current spike?  Maybe CAUSED the current spike being leaky and not all that good.


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!


Perhaps.  Hindsight is usually 20/20 after all and we can armchair quarterback every decision ever made in the history of mankind.

This is interesting though.  Recall, we did not have Omicron 18 months ago.



There were public officials calling for "letting it rip" both here and in the UK at the time. Sadly, we didn't do that and as a result, lots of people died, our economy was crushed, and we now have an illegitimate communist regime running the country.


Yes, and there were public officials calling for not going into Iraq and Afghanistan and if we hadn’t done those things we would likely be better off.  All big decisions are contentious.  All can be second guessed after the fact.  Governments regularly make poor decisions.  Nothing here is new.

Edit:  I’m trying and failing to think of a single government action in history that could not have been done better.  Help me out if you know of one.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:36:01 PM EST
[#14]
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Originally Posted By martin248:


Two different questions here:

1. Did the vaccine in practice reduce risk sufficient that rational people would go back to life as normal - YES

2. Did the government adopt sensible, data driven policies based on that reduction in risk - HELL NO
View Quote

If the shot is so great, why do so many "vaccinated" people continue to get and spread the virus? It has never performed as advertised. It's now obsolete, and anyone taking it now is wasting their time
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:37:36 PM EST
[#15]
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Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
it's not politicians being wrong. It's doctors and scientists. They won't admit they were wrong. Which is what makes good science.
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They aren't just wrong, they are lying.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:46:07 PM EST
[#16]
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Originally Posted By martin248:


Some of the best science in history has come from being wrong. Michelson and Morley were sure their experiment would finally show a difference in the speed of light when they measured its velocity travelling with vs at right angles to Earth's direction of movement though the luminiferous aether!
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Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 10:47:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: martin248] [#17]
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Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.
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On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:04:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#18]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:16:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: S13] [#19]
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Originally Posted By martin248:


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
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Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.

Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:17:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#20]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:23:16 PM EST
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.

View Quote


It's been my position that vaccinated people should just resume normal life since April when the vaccine finally became available to pretty much everyone.

I have also consistently opposed mandates because freedom matters more than safety and people are accountable for their own personal decisions.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:30:10 PM EST
[#22]
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Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.

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Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.
Link Posted: 1/5/2022 11:33:54 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


Yes, and there were public officials calling for not going into Iraq and Afghanistan and if we hadn’t done those things we would likely be better off.  All big decisions are contentious.  All can be second guessed after the fact.  Governments regularly make poor decisions.  Nothing here is new.

Edit:  I’m trying and failing to think of a single government action in history that could not have been done better.  Help me out if you know of one.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Ender875:
Originally Posted By martin248:




The vaccines did a great job of delaying the current spike until today. It took COVID-19 a year to defeat vaccine immunity and we put the year to good use. Now we have paxlovid, molnupiravir, monoclonals, dexamethasone, home rapid tests, a better understanding of oxygen protocols and a weaker virus. Time gave us much better options.



Do you realize the irony of posting this last sentence in a post about moving the goal posts?  Vaccines delayed the current spike?  Maybe CAUSED the current spike being leaky and not all that good.


Since the current variant is relatively harmless, it is a good thing. It is actually the best possible thing that could happen.  A relatively harmless, very contagious variant, that will hopefully provide some degree of immunity to the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike.

There is no “moving goal posts” in that.  Rather considering new information that did not exist (and an entire new variant that did not exist).  Intelligent people consider new information and adapt their response to it, rather than dig in their heels based on outdated information that is no longer relevant.

Much of what is considered “moving goal posts” is simply adapting to and adjusting for new information in a fast moving dynamic situation.  Folks are so desperate to find a conspiracy in all of this that they are ignoring the fact that people learn and adapt their approaches as situations unfold.  Particularly in the case of a novel virus.


Had we allowed the original variant to burn through while we used known proven effective treatments, we would have been done with the pandemic part of Kung Flu 18 months ago. Instead, we arm waved until a set of harmful experimental gene therapy shots could be paid for by the taxpayers even though they are both dangerous and ineffective. And, now, we've introduced harm to millions of people in addition to not preventing the infection and transmission of Kung Flu. Heck of a job, Brownie!


Perhaps.  Hindsight is usually 20/20 after all and we can armchair quarterback every decision ever made in the history of mankind.

This is interesting though.  Recall, we did not have Omicron 18 months ago.



There were public officials calling for "letting it rip" both here and in the UK at the time. Sadly, we didn't do that and as a result, lots of people died, our economy was crushed, and we now have an illegitimate communist regime running the country.


Yes, and there were public officials calling for not going into Iraq and Afghanistan and if we hadn’t done those things we would likely be better off.  All big decisions are contentious.  All can be second guessed after the fact.  Governments regularly make poor decisions.  Nothing here is new.

Edit:  I’m trying and failing to think of a single government action in history that could not have been done better.  Help me out if you know of one.


Do I look like a miracle worker to you?


Link Posted: 1/6/2022 10:10:36 AM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


So why shouldn't he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don't adapt their positions.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn't he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don't adapt their positions.
Because it isn't genuine?
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 5:32:44 PM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 5:40:11 PM EST
[#26]
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Originally Posted By RSG:
View Quote
Of...Course...They...Did
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 6:54:37 PM EST
[#27]
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Originally Posted By RSG:
View Quote


He spelled "as our quarterly reports can't be allowed to decline" wrong.
Link Posted: 1/6/2022 11:43:50 PM EST
[#28]
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Originally Posted By 68injunhed:


He spelled "as our quarterly reports can't be allowed to decline" wrong.
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Originally Posted By 68injunhed:
Originally Posted By RSG:


He spelled "as our quarterly reports can't be allowed to decline" wrong.


Yep!

Fauci, Pfizer, and Co have had 1 plan since this pandemic started.
Jab early, jab ONLY, jab often.


Every new failure, whether it's breakthrough infections or deaths, are met with "heh drink more ovaltine just jab em again lmao"

We went from, "ivermectin is literally poison unless pharma does honest studies, interprets the results honestly, THEN admits it out loud, THEN the media agrees and is willing to say it out loud as well - and in the process melting down several Billion dollars of moneyprinters and opening up politicians and public health fobbits to "I told you so"s and legacy destruction."
To "The Vaccines are Safe And TestedTM", to zero real studies on boosters, and just hoping they're safe no matter how many we stack, and hoping they work.

We can't have ivermectin because: not enough studies that they liked and will admit to.
But we can have infinite boosters because: ????
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 1:14:14 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 1:44:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 999monkeys] [#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.
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Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.


I agree with you that more care should be taken before suggesting policy.

However, we are past that point.  What is done is done.  Now we are at the point where either 1) they adapt their views and hopefully find a better way forward; or 2) they double down on bad policy.  We don’t want the latter.
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 2:18:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: martin248] [#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people.
View Quote


There are two completely separate issues here:

1. What is the objective reality of COVID and the vaccines
2. What is the government saying and doing about it

What I see happening is because people don't like what the government is doing (mandates, lockdowns) they are denying the objective reality (800k deaths, vaccines work).

You are absolutely right that the government has used the the facts about COVID and the vaccines to impose offensive statist policies that are a rebuke of fundamental freedoms. The government has also exaggerated the facts, making claims that the risk is higher than it really is, and making the vaccines sound better than they really are

But many of those resisting these offensive policies have also been guilty of lying and misrepresentation, denying objective facts about the virus and the vaccine in order to attack the bad policies. Presumably they think the misrepresentations are justified by the goal of rolling back the bad policies.

The bad policies should be attacked on principle. Even if the virus were twice as bad as it really is, and even if the vaccine were perfect in every way, people still have a right to decide their own medical treatment.

As for the lockdowns they have actually no basis in science no matter who you believe. The mainstream science says the vaccine is so effective that it reduces risk to a negligible amount. Since April 2021 when the vaccine finally reached everyone there has been no sense whatsoever in any continued restriction.

Since April everyone who wanted a shot got a shot and the ones who decided to skip it are entitled to live with the consequences of that decision, regardless of whether or not it was a good decision.
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 2:25:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak] [#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By martin248:


There are two completely separate issues here:

1. What is the objective reality of COVID and the vaccines
2. What is the government saying and doing about it

What I see happening is because people don't like what the government is doing (mandates, lockdowns) they are denying the objective reality (800k deaths, vaccines work).

You are absolutely right that the government has used the the facts about COVID and the vaccines to impose offensive statist policies that are a rebuke of fundamental freedoms. The government has also exaggerated the facts, making coffee that the risk is higher than it really is, and making the vaccines sound better than they really are

But many of those resisting these offensive policies have are also guilty of lying and misrepresentation, denying objective facts about the virus and the vaccine in order to attack the bad policies.

The bad policies should be attacked on principle. Even if the virus were twice as bad as it really is, and even if the vaccine were perfect in every way, people still have a right to decide their own medical treatment.

As for the lockdowns they have actually no basis in science no matter who you believe. The mainstream science says the vaccine is so effective that it reduces risk to a negligible amount. Since April 2021 when the vaccine finally reached everyone there has been no sense whatsoever in any continued restriction.

Since the everyone who wanted a shot got a shot and the ones who decided to skip it are entitled to live with the consequences of that decision, regardless of whether it was as good decision.
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Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people.


There are two completely separate issues here:

1. What is the objective reality of COVID and the vaccines
2. What is the government saying and doing about it

What I see happening is because people don't like what the government is doing (mandates, lockdowns) they are denying the objective reality (800k deaths, vaccines work).

You are absolutely right that the government has used the the facts about COVID and the vaccines to impose offensive statist policies that are a rebuke of fundamental freedoms. The government has also exaggerated the facts, making coffee that the risk is higher than it really is, and making the vaccines sound better than they really are

But many of those resisting these offensive policies have are also guilty of lying and misrepresentation, denying objective facts about the virus and the vaccine in order to attack the bad policies.

The bad policies should be attacked on principle. Even if the virus were twice as bad as it really is, and even if the vaccine were perfect in every way, people still have a right to decide their own medical treatment.

As for the lockdowns they have actually no basis in science no matter who you believe. The mainstream science says the vaccine is so effective that it reduces risk to a negligible amount. Since April 2021 when the vaccine finally reached everyone there has been no sense whatsoever in any continued restriction.

Since the everyone who wanted a shot got a shot and the ones who decided to skip it are entitled to live with the consequences of that decision, regardless of whether it was as good decision.

We know you work for a drug company so you can stop the advertisements, we know already and don't care.  So long as the Judges order stays we might find out which company in the next 6-8 months if your still here or not.

Its funny how you worded the last line in your post, like only the people that skip the jab are going to have to live with the consequences.  You will also have to live with the consequences and bear the burden of any injuries due to all the vax promotions you do all day.  
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 2:29:23 PM EST
[#33]
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Originally Posted By RSG:
View Quote


Over time?  Wasn't the third one just released?  I mean most haven't even had it and now it's already number 4?  Israel is on what, number 5 or 6.  Why not just move to an iv drip at this point?
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 2:42:31 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


I agree with you that more care should be taken before suggesting policy.

However, we are past that point.  What is done is done.  Now we are at the point where either 1) they adapt their views and hopefully find a better way forward; or 2) they double down on bad policy.  We don’t want the latter.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.


I agree with you that more care should be taken before suggesting policy.

However, we are past that point.  What is done is done.  Now we are at the point where either 1) they adapt their views and hopefully find a better way forward; or 2) they double down on bad policy.  We don’t want the latter.

Indicators are already out there they will do the latter.  Many folks don't want to exit their bubble to see that though.
Link Posted: 1/7/2022 3:22:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 999monkeys] [#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:

Indicators are already out there they will do the latter.  Many folks don't want to exit their bubble to see that though.
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Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.


I agree with you that more care should be taken before suggesting policy.

However, we are past that point.  What is done is done.  Now we are at the point where either 1) they adapt their views and hopefully find a better way forward; or 2) they double down on bad policy.  We don’t want the latter.

Indicators are already out there they will do the latter.  Many folks don't want to exit their bubble to see that though.


My general jaded view of politicians and government makes me suspect they will do that latter, but there are at least recent quotes to suggest it is not a monolithic viewpoint.

Also, while I can’t be bothered to argue with people on the internet, some other countries are moving to a “live with Covid” strategy.  GD will argue that America is the last bastion of freedom, but it is actually lagging other countries in this and has been for months (since Delta).  Bearing in mind that a “live with Covid strategy” is not the same as a “lick doorknobs strategy”.
Link Posted: 1/8/2022 12:28:04 AM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


My general jaded view of politicians and government makes me suspect they will do that latter, but there are at least recent quotes to suggest it is not a monolithic viewpoint.

Also, while I can’t be bothered to argue with people on the internet, some other countries are moving to a “live with Covid” strategy.  GD will argue that America is the last bastion of freedom, but it is actually lagging other countries in this and has been for months (since Delta).  Bearing in mind that a “live with Covid strategy” is not the same as a “lick doorknobs strategy”.
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By exponentialpi:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By Shasta_Doug:
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.

What is different and troubling here is that those policy decisions translated into control orders over the people. They were not just recommendations for us to consume and evaluate on our own and then make the best decisions for ourselves.

Those policies translated to orders and mandates.  People lost their jobs. People lost freedom of movement. People lost freedom to personal privacy. People and kids were pscyhologically harmed from lock downs and  at home schooling and we are yet to see the long term effects. People and kids were forced under the duress of great personal, economic and social pressures to put something into their bodies that has no long term known risk data.

So when those that tell us to do something that severely impacts us and they are free to easily change their minds, why should we trust them?  Before they suggest a policy that is so negatively impactful, they need to be really certain what the hell they are doing and the unintended consequences of changing their minds after learning new data.


I agree with you that more care should be taken before suggesting policy.

However, we are past that point.  What is done is done.  Now we are at the point where either 1) they adapt their views and hopefully find a better way forward; or 2) they double down on bad policy.  We don’t want the latter.

Indicators are already out there they will do the latter.  Many folks don't want to exit their bubble to see that though.


My general jaded view of politicians and government makes me suspect they will do that latter, but there are at least recent quotes to suggest it is not a monolithic viewpoint.

Also, while I can’t be bothered to argue with people on the internet, some other countries are moving to a “live with Covid” strategy.  GD will argue that America is the last bastion of freedom, but it is actually lagging other countries in this and has been for months (since Delta).  Bearing in mind that a “live with Covid strategy” is not the same as a “lick doorknobs strategy”.



One would think that given the monumental charlie-foxtrot the .gov response has been all over the world that there would be a move to do that which should have been done from the beginning. That would be to roll out treatments that have been known to be effective since the beginning and otherwise let the virus burn itself out. Had we done that with the a-model, we'd be over it already and there wouldn't be any variants to have to deal with. That, and we wouldn't have cratered the economy, facilitated mail-in voter fraud, and ended up with an illegitimate communist regime running the country.
Link Posted: 1/8/2022 12:31:32 AM EST
[#37]
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 12:04:49 PM EST
[#38]
Attachment Attached File


Adding this, thank you exponentialpi!
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 12:05:28 PM EST
[#39]
"Healthy athletes aren't dropping of heart attacks"

"Know what's REALLY going on? It's alllll these unhealthy kids being locked down and playing video games.
It's climate change.
It's weed.
Or something."


Link Posted: 1/9/2022 12:59:01 PM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By 999monkeys:
Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Originally Posted By martin248:
Originally Posted By lorazepam:

Great. That doesn't change the fact that the "brilliant minds" in charge of gov health policies fucked this up from the starting gate.


On this we agree. The policy decisions were completely out of whack with the science. And I mean the mainstream science published in the NEJM, Nature, Science, the Lancet, JAMA, etc, the very journals those policy makers supposedly agree are best in class.

"The science" that the media and govt likes to claim it follows was saying the vaccine was so effective that the remaining risk was reduced to a level everyone lives with every day, and yet we continued to have lockdowns and closures and fear mongering.

It also says the vaccinated have been able to spread the disease since at least Delta and yet we have mandates, vaccine passports and other bullshit.

So yes you're right on that.
Oh my.  You sure wouldnt have said any of that 12 months ago.   But you have to now to maintain any semblance of credibility.



So why shouldn’t he and everyone else have the ability to change their minds in the face of new information?  That is what smart people do.  Only idiots dig in and don’t adapt their positions.


Mandatory vaccines are forever.

1) i am going to make you take this vaccine and tell you it will protect you
2) oopsie
3) your lifelong risk of cancer-infertility-immunodysfunction is x87000% congrats retards

Sorry your facts changed
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 2:16:50 PM EST
[#41]
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 2:42:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: martin248] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PAspeedmaster:
Massachusetts will change how it reports COVID-19 hospitalizations next week

https://www.boston.com/news/coronavirus/2022/01/07/massachusetts-changing-covid-hospitalizations-data-reporting-with-because/
View Quote


Interesting, NY already did that and it looks like half of their COVID hospitalizations we admitted for something other than COVID, but that was based on limited data.

Will be interesting to see if it's more or less as we get more places doing this.
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 3:12:54 PM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By martin248:


It's been my position that vaccinated people should just resume normal life since April when the vaccine finally became available to pretty much everyone.

I have also consistently opposed mandates because freedom matters more than safety and people are accountable for their own personal decisions.
View Quote


That directly goes against the CDC.
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 3:39:46 PM EST
[#44]
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 4:10:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 999monkeys] [#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


That directly goes against the CDC.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Originally Posted By martin248:


It's been my position that vaccinated people should just resume normal life since April when the vaccine finally became available to pretty much everyone.

I have also consistently opposed mandates because freedom matters more than safety and people are accountable for their own personal decisions.


That directly goes against the CDC.


There should be a system of checks and balances.

I would expect the CDC to focus on controlling disease at all costs.  I would expect economists to focus on maximizing economic output, full employment, ect at all costs.  I would expect educators to focus on the best educational outcomes.  I would expect politicians to focus on preventing civil unrest, ect.

One of the big mistakes during this pandemic is that those checks and balances have been largely ignored.  Governments have let their infectious disease specialists drive  policy, without regard for the other competing interests that it takes to maintain a functioning society.  

One of the learnings from Covid will be to balance policy by consulting with other disciplines.  The CDC is important, but it’s just one piece of a much larger puzzle.  

It’s sort of like when countries let the military drive policy and are confused at why they are always at war.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2022 4:12:29 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


That directly goes against the CDC.
View Quote

Ok.
Link Posted: 1/10/2022 5:37:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak] [#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By martin248:

It's been my position that vaccinated people should just resume normal life since April when the vaccine finally became available to pretty much everyone.

I have also consistently opposed mandates because freedom matters more than safety and people are accountable for their own personal decisions.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By martin248:

It's been my position that vaccinated people should just resume normal life since April when the vaccine finally became available to pretty much everyone.

I have also consistently opposed mandates because freedom matters more than safety and people are accountable for their own personal decisions.

Originally Posted By fadedsun:

That directly goes against the CDC.


This probably goes against the CDC as well....

Pfizer CEO...shots don't have the safety profile they hoped for....link to another ARF thread

Link Posted: 1/10/2022 6:13:20 PM EST
[#48]
From the network that kept a running total of the numbers on screen as much as possible.

Link Posted: 1/10/2022 6:15:19 PM EST
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RSG:
From the network that kept a running total of the numbers on screen as much as possible.

View Quote



Remember when suggesting that happened was Literally BigfootTM
Link Posted: 1/10/2022 6:28:35 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 999monkeys:


How is that different this time around?

I've yet to hear Bush or Cheney say Iraq was not responsible for 9-11.  I would be more surprised to hear a politician say they were wrong.  That would be unprecedented.
View Quote
Where did they say it was  ? In any direct fashion?
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