Sig Sauer is kicking A** (Page 5 of 6)
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Originally Posted By tgmr05: If you were alive during that time, that was actually what the emotionally based folks thought initially. People were claiming left and right glocks were just going off in their holsters, when they set them down after a shift, etc. etc. But the more rational gun community helped shut it down. Not so much, now. Originally Posted By tgmr05: Originally Posted By STJ: Glock leg had nothing to do with Glocks spontaneously going off in the holster. If you were alive during that time, that was actually what the emotionally based folks thought initially. People were claiming left and right glocks were just going off in their holsters, when they set them down after a shift, etc. etc. But the more rational gun community helped shut it down. Not so much, now. Lol, how many dollars has sig had to payout in settlements due to 320 lawsuits. We'll wait for you to double check with your legal department. |
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Originally Posted By TSH77769: Your brain is clearly deprived of oxygen due to Sig being too far down your throat for too long. Close. The Op's next Sig post will be for the new Sig branded, MRI safe, titanium butt plugs. Sig is a lifestyle, a ghey one. I'll stick to the older manufactured classic series. Thank you for your attention in this matter. |
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AI response 1. Consumer Class-Action SettlementsThe Hartley v. SIG Sauer Settlement: SIG Sauer agreed to a consumer class-action settlement in Missouri. This agreement did not involve massive cash payouts to all owners. Instead, it covered up to $850,000 for plaintiffs' attorneys' fees and expenses, small payments of $1,400 to $2,800 to the named plaintiffs, and a commitment to refund customers who had previously paid out-of-pocket for repairs or to offer commercial refunds/replacements for unrepairable guns.Note: A separate, subsequent consumer class action in Missouri (Glasscock) attempting to seek cash damages for owners whose guns had not misfired was thrown out by the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals.2. Notable Trial Verdicts (Often Pending Appeal)While not voluntary settlements, SIG Sauer has been hit with major jury awards over the P320's design, though some have been reduced or vacated during post-trial motions:$2.35 Million (Georgia - Lang Case): In June 2024, a federal jury awarded $2.35 million to a Georgia man shot in the thigh while unholstering his weapon. This marked the first time a jury found SIG Sauer negligent for a P320 accidental discharge. A federal judge upheld the verdict, but SIG Sauer's appeal remains pending in the Eleventh Circuit.$1 Million / $11 Million (Pennsylvania - Abrahams Case): In November 2024, a Philadelphia jury awarded an Army veteran $11 million ($1 million in compensatory damages and $10 million in punitive damages). However, a judge later vacated the $10 million punitive portion, leaving SIG Sauer liable for the $1 million compensatory portion. Other Outcomes: Other trials have resulted in different outcomes. For instance, a Massachusetts jury found the gun defectively designed but awarded $0 because the officer chose to continue carrying it despite knowing the risks. SIG Sauer also secured a complete defense verdict in a Maine trial, where a jury rejected the holstered-discharge theory. Because SIG Sauer is a privately held company and continues to litigate dozens of individual cases through its legal team, any private out-of-court settlements reached with individual shooting victims remain confidential. |
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Originally Posted By colklink: I'm 99% sure they've lost a couple lawsuits and have had to shell out money. Originally Posted By colklink: Originally Posted By scottzilla: You can hate all you want but here is no denying they are winning and more winning seems to be heading their way. The roll-out on the P385 is really nice; several easy to understand versions of the same pistol, really good web interface, new optic to go along with the new pistols, new style screw-on comp, a couple more P365 versions and P320 magazine compatiblilty. Plus, they are keeping the P320 available as a big "Screw you" to all of the naysayers. Makes the Glock roll-out of the Gen 6 look like amatuer hour. Nobody can deny the success of the entire P365 line, I bet the P385 sells even better. While the rest of the industry flounders, SIG is getting shit done. And.....correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure they have won every single lawsuit regarding the P320 to date.  Posted in GD for effect I'm 99% sure they've lost a couple lawsuits and have had to shell out money. Yes they have lost a few. But have won the majority of lawsuits. I would say over 95% of lawsuits sig has won But you cannot use winning or losing lawsuits as a metric of whether there is an actual problem or not with a product |
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If you like your SIG, you can keep your SIG - and buy as many as you want. However I have no plans on buying anything from SIG - firearms, optics, ammo…ANYTHING. So it’s a win/win for everyone. I don’t have to deal with their “products”, which means more for everyone else. I used to own a P229 (in 40 S&W  ) and bought a P250 (also in 40 -ewww, I know…)not long before those were discontinued. I actually kind of like the P250. Always thought it was a better pistol than the P320.
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Never wanted a Sig and I never wanted a Glock, but on a whim I bought a G48 and really liked it for carry. Liked it so much I sold it 4+ years later and bought a SW Shield X, I shot it better than the G48 and it just felt better in the hand for whatever reason. Fast forward, my son want's the Shield X so I started considering the Sig 365. But now seeing the 385 compact come out I am a bit interested, sure looks like they followed the Walther PDP play book though. But my guess is it will be out of price range for a simple carry gun. JMO. Anyone know what retail will be on these things yet? |
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Originally Posted By AK-12: They'll reintroduce a new version of the "same" gun with similar nomenclature but for which few to no parts interchange. Originally Posted By AK-12: Originally Posted By Kuraki: I can't wait for it's inevitable discontinuation after refusing to fix any mechanical issues and instead focusing on releasing 47 different aesthetic packages no one wants. They'll reintroduce a new version of the "same" gun with similar nomenclature but for which few to no parts interchange. The P211 is what, a year old? There are allegedly already three different slide variations related to the optic cut, so optic plates that fit one P211 may not fit another if it’s cut differently. |
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Originally Posted By scottzilla: You can hate all you want but here is no denying they are winning and more winning seems to be heading their way. The roll-out on the P385 is really nice; several easy to understand versions of the same pistol, really good web interface, new optic to go along with the new pistols, new style screw-on comp, a couple more P365 versions and P320 magazine compatiblilty. Plus, they are keeping the P320 available as a big "Screw you" to all of the naysayers. Makes the Glock roll-out of the Gen 6 look like amatuer hour. Nobody can deny the success of the entire P365 line, I bet the P385 sells even better. While the rest of the industry flounders, SIG is getting shit done. And.....correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure they have won every single lawsuit regarding the P320 to date. Posted in GD for effect interesting still not ever buying a Sig product |
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Originally Posted By DetroitSounds: Probably didn't go the way you thought OP. Even I am surprised at the Sig hate. Since there's so much of it I'll throw in how gay the Sig 2011's are too. Nope, went exactly the way I thought it would but I have to admit the "Shill" comments were a bit weird and unexpected considering I bet I own many more pistols than 90% of the other millionaires here. It's not like Sig is paying me more than the others. 
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Originally Posted By Vintagearms007: I am a Glock guy but my P365 has been great. Very modular for grips. Same here, but I'm almost tempted to say "was" a glock guy. I carry one of my icarus framed 365's 90% of the time. Neither have had any failures in thousands of rounds, but while I trust them, I don't know if I'll ever have the level of confidence with them that I do my glocks. In the unlikely event of a Zombie apocalypse or a Red Dawn situation I'll probably reach for one of my glocks. For normal every day carry I go with my 365's. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By scottzilla: While the rest of the industry flounders, SIG is getting shit done. Nope. Not even close to the reality I’m in.  Springfield/HS Produkt— not floundering. Releasing great guns (better than Sig in design and QC). Smith— Releasing good guns. Ruger— Good guns. Most 2011 makers— selling a 100 year old pistol design with double stack mags like nobody’s business. Even Keltec— releasing cool guns. Sig— It appears they upscaled a P365 into a true full size, while reportedly P320s aren’t really moving while being priced hundreds below the competition while P365 trigger return springs are sold in 3 packs which is usually not even a common wear part for the average shooter in most designs. |
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Originally Posted By 797hp: I bought a P220 and a P226 over two decades ago, they’re great guns I have zero interest in any of their modern designs This and throw X6's as well, but after the debacle of the civilian p320 where they tried to hide the problem, not in any rush to buy any poly pistol from them until they get their striker trigger system safe. |
Posted By PlaymoreMinds:
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
'Twas not the <cough> sweet and innocent <cough> PlaymoreMinds...
<---skips away in frilly skirts to Candyland, leaving gutters and snorkels FAR behind.
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I have a number of SIGs and am generally a fan. The P385 looks like it might be a nice pistol, but I don’t really have interest. I pocket carry now. But I don’t get why people feel the need to bash a company that has led the way with innovation. I can understand if you choose not to buy, but I don’t understand the desire to bash. The firearm industry has a target on their back already, and we don’t need to give anti-2A folks any “ammo”. Don’t get me wrong, we need to call people out when they’re not right. There was a legitimate poor design with the first iteration of the P320. First, the design of the reset was poorly executed. The double click was a real issue that was completely overshadowed by the drop issue. But I’m convinced the recent “issues” are user induced. It’s been years and no one has been able to replicate them outside of fantastical theories relying on multiple one-time only failures all occurring at once and never being able to be replicated. The Ron Cohen complaint is just starting to seem antisemitic at this point. Everyone says he’s responsible for Kimber going to shit, but it’s been decades and Kimber isn’t great. Conversely, SIG was on the edge of failing and now they’re leading the way. Indian MIM also smacks of racism. To my knowledge, no one has demonstrated that there is any indication there’s a greater failure rate. Of all my SIGs, I’ve had exactly 1 part fail and that was the firing pin on a 1994 P229. Don’t think they were using MIM back then, and frankly at the time, it’s possible the small parts were German made. And I keep saying, if you refuse to buy a SIG because they have Indian MIM, you better stop flying, cuz the same company makes jet turbine fans that may well be pushing you through the air. Which brings us to the German made is the best. Yeah, at the time, German made SIGs were top notch firearms. But I argue that the milled slides are objectively better than stamped and welded slides with pinned blocks and internal extractors. Anyway, cool pistol, but I don’t have a purpose for it. |
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Originally Posted By scottzilla: You can hate all you want but here is no denying they are winning and more winning seems to be heading their way. The roll-out on the P385 is really nice; several easy to understand versions of the same pistol, really good web interface, new optic to go along with the new pistols, new style screw-on comp, a couple more P365 versions and P320 magazine compatiblilty. Plus, they are keeping the P320 available as a big "Screw you" to all of the naysayers. Makes the Glock roll-out of the Gen 6 look like amatuer hour. Nobody can deny the success of the entire P365 line, I bet the P385 sells even better. While the rest of the industry flounders, SIG is getting shit done. And.....correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure they have won every single lawsuit regarding the P320 to date. Posted in GD for effect For me, it's the McChicken. The best fast food sandwich. I even ask for extra McChicken sauce packets and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige. One time I asked for McChicken sauce packets and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly McDonald's worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!". Now the staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three packets. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local McDonald's restaurant, I go there at least 3 times a week for lunch and a large iced coffee with milk instead of cream, 1-2 times for breakfast on the weekend, and maybe once for dinner when I'm in a rush but want a great meal that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily nutritional needs. I even dip my fries in McChicken sauce, it's delicious! What a great restaurant. |
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| I bought my wife a sig p245 with a couple of extra mags. It is her carry gun. 185 gr Barnes bullets. Accurate gun. I bought it in marble falls in the early 2000's. For fun she shoots paper plates at 15 to 50 yds with reloaded ball. Baby sig that looks akin to a p220 but mechanically not the same. I guess you get some good and some bad. This seems to be a good one. |
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Originally Posted By triburst1: For me, it's the McChicken. The best fast food sandwich. I even ask for extra McChicken sauce packets and the staff is so friendly and more than willing to oblige. One time I asked for McChicken sauce packets and they gave me three. I said, "Wow, three for free!" and the nice friendly McDonald's worker laughed and said, "I'm going to call you 3-for-free!". Now the staff greets me with "hey it's 3-for-free!" and ALWAYS give me three packets. It's such a fun and cool atmosphere at my local McDonald's restaurant, I go there at least 3 times a week for lunch and a large iced coffee with milk instead of cream, 1-2 times for breakfast on the weekend, and maybe once for dinner when I'm in a rush but want a great meal that is affordable, fast, and can match my daily nutritional needs. I even dip my fries in McChicken sauce, it's delicious! What a great restaurant. Baconator all the way pal. |
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Originally Posted By glklvr: I WAS alive, and shooting guns competitively, during that time and I can say without a doubt that you are full of shit. The accusation was that the trigger was too easy to pull, i.e. as others here have said, it was a transition issue. That you think there was a "gun community that shut them down" is hilarious. There was a group that knew what was going on and defended Glock, but without the social media presence like today, it is basically a moot point, as social media spreads/shares information much quicker than in the past. You are correct about easy trigger pulls being a transition issue. Also gear and holsters became more and more specialized. I am sure you remember that, as well. There is still ZERO definitive/repeatable/verified evidence or proof of a current unmolested stock sig p320 being able to fire without a trigger pull. If you have that proof, I will stand behind you 100 percent that there is a problem with the p320 that can be fixed. Just show it like the drop test did on non molested factory pistols. Otherwise, well… |
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Originally Posted By 03RN: Lol, how many dollars has sig had to payout in settlements due to 320 lawsuits. We'll wait for you to double check with your legal department. I am in no way, shape, manner, or form associated with any gun manufacturer anywhere. Sorry if that offends anyone who has their emotional position challenged/corrected. Check how much glock has paid out, beretta has paid out, smith has paid out. If you have some new verifiable/repeatable/replicatable proof/evidence that proves 100 percent a current unmolested sig p320 can fire without the trigger being pulled, I will be behind you and help you spread that information. Otherwise, …. Edit for spelling and clarity |
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Originally Posted By BuddyChryst: I have a number of SIGs and am generally a fan. The P385 looks like it might be a nice pistol, but I don’t really have interest. I pocket carry now. But I don’t get why people feel the need to bash a company that has led the way with innovation. I can understand if you choose not to buy, but I don’t understand the desire to bash. The firearm industry has a target on their back already, and we don’t need to give anti-2A folks any “ammo”. Don’t get me wrong, we need to call people out when they’re not right. There was a legitimate poor design with the first iteration of the P320. First, the design of the reset was poorly executed. The double click was a real issue that was completely overshadowed by the drop issue. But I’m convinced the recent “issues” are user induced. It’s been years and no one has been able to replicate them outside of fantastical theories relying on multiple one-time only failures all occurring at once and never being able to be replicated. The Ron Cohen complaint is just starting to seem antisemitic at this point. Everyone says he’s responsible for Kimber going to shit, but it’s been decades and Kimber isn’t great. Conversely, SIG was on the edge of failing and now they’re leading the way. Indian MIM also smacks of racism. To my knowledge, no one has demonstrated that there is any indication there’s a greater failure rate. Of all my SIGs, I’ve had exactly 1 part fail and that was the firing pin on a 1994 P229. Don’t think they were using MIM back then, and frankly at the time, it’s possible the small parts were German made. And I keep saying, if you refuse to buy a SIG because they have Indian MIM, you better stop flying, cuz the same company makes jet turbine fans that may well be pushing you through the air. Which brings us to the German made is the best. Yeah, at the time, German made SIGs were top notch firearms. But I argue that the milled slides are objectively better than stamped and welded slides with pinned blocks and internal extractors. Anyway, cool pistol, but I don’t have a purpose for it. SIG hate is racist and antisemitic... Holy shit LMAO 
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Originally Posted By tgmr05: I am in no way, shape, manner, or form associated with any gun manufacturer anywhere. Sorry if that offends anyone who has their emotional position challenged/corrected. Check how much glock has paid out, beretta has paid out, smith has paid out. If you have some new verifiable/repeatable/replicatable proof/evidence that proves 100 percent a current unmolested sig p320 can fire without the trigger being pulled, I will be behind you and help you spread that information. Otherwise, …. Edit for spelling and clarity Originally Posted By tgmr05: Originally Posted By 03RN: Lol, how many dollars has sig had to payout in settlements due to 320 lawsuits. We'll wait for you to double check with your legal department. I am in no way, shape, manner, or form associated with any gun manufacturer anywhere. Sorry if that offends anyone who has their emotional position challenged/corrected. Check how much glock has paid out, beretta has paid out, smith has paid out. If you have some new verifiable/repeatable/replicatable proof/evidence that proves 100 percent a current unmolested sig p320 can fire without the trigger being pulled, I will be behind you and help you spread that information. Otherwise, …. Edit for spelling and clarity "There is no public record or comprehensive financial figure showing that the firearms manufacturer Beretta has paid out a significant cumulative total in legal settlements." "Glock has not publicly reported or been ordered to pay any major financial payouts or settlements in product liability or public nuisance lawsuits.Current Legal StatusActive Lawsuits: Glock faces active litigation from several U.S. cities and states (including Chicago, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Minnesota, New Jersey, and Seattle) alleging that their handguns are too easily converted into illegal automatic weapons using "Glock switches".No Recorded Settlements: Unlike other firearm manufacturers—such as Remington, which settled the Sandy Hook lawsuit for $73 million—Glock has historically fought lawsuits rather than settling, and there is no public record of substantial settlement payouts" "Smith & Wesson has paid approximately $2 million in major public financial penalties for legal and regulatory settlements.Major Financial SettlementsSEC Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (2014): Smith & Wesson paid $2 million to settle civil charges with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). The case resolved accusations that the company bribed foreign officials in Pakistan, Indonesia, Turkey, Nepal, and Bangladesh to secure police and military contracts. The total payout included a $1.91 million penalty, $107,852 in disgorged profits, and $21,040 in interest" Little different for all of them The only emotional people in this thread are the sig fan boys who are really grasping at straws. |
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Originally Posted By tgmr05: So still no verifiable/repeatable proof/evidence. But the boy gave testimonial he saw a wolf…. Originally Posted By tgmr05: Originally Posted By thirsty: There are also testimonials of them failing. So still no verifiable/repeatable proof/evidence. But the boy gave testimonial he saw a wolf…. There are also a whole host of LE Agencies that have dumped the P320 for quality issues to include uncommanded discharges. |
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Originally Posted By tgmr05: There was a group that knew what was going on and defended Glock, but without the social media presence like today, it is basically a moot point, as social media spreads/shares information much quicker than in the past. You are correct about easy trigger pulls being a transition issue. Also gear and holsters became more and more specialized. I am sure you remember that, as well. There is still ZERO definitive/repeatable/verified evidence or proof of a current unmolested stock sig p320 being able to fire without a trigger pull. If you have that proof, I will stand behind you 100 percent that there is a problem with the p320 that can be fixed. Just show it like the drop test did on non molested factory pistols. Otherwise, well… Originally Posted By tgmr05: Originally Posted By glklvr: I WAS alive, and shooting guns competitively, during that time and I can say without a doubt that you are full of shit. The accusation was that the trigger was too easy to pull, i.e. as others here have said, it was a transition issue. That you think there was a "gun community that shut them down" is hilarious. There was a group that knew what was going on and defended Glock, but without the social media presence like today, it is basically a moot point, as social media spreads/shares information much quicker than in the past. You are correct about easy trigger pulls being a transition issue. Also gear and holsters became more and more specialized. I am sure you remember that, as well. There is still ZERO definitive/repeatable/verified evidence or proof of a current unmolested stock sig p320 being able to fire without a trigger pull. If you have that proof, I will stand behind you 100 percent that there is a problem with the p320 that can be fixed. Just show it like the drop test did on non molested factory pistols. Otherwise, well… SIGs own court documents identified 17 hazards that could result in a person being killed unintentionally by a P320. |
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Originally Posted By tgmr05: I am in no way, shape, manner, or form associated with any gun manufacturer anywhere. Sorry if that offends anyone who has their emotional position challenged/corrected. Check how much glock has paid out, beretta has paid out, smith has paid out. If you have some new verifiable/repeatable/replicatable proof/evidence that proves 100 percent a current unmolested sig p320 can fire without the trigger being pulled, I will be behind you and help you spread that information. Otherwise, . Edit for spelling and clarity |
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Originally Posted By Flogger23m: P385 is all the proof you need that the P320 is not doing so well. A lot of LE agencies ban them, this hurts reputation and future sales. P385 more or less looks like a scaled up P365 which I assume fixes any issues the P320 may have. The P320 will not go away overnight. A number of military issue them. They will probably keep them around for a long time, and SIG will continue to support them and maybe upgrade as necessary. But I assume new production will slow over the next few years and LE will move onto the P385 as well as civilians. If anything, the P385 is a way to sell to all the PDs that have banned the P320. Regardless of all the controversy The 320 is 12 years old so replacing it isn't exactly a huge deal in the gun world. |
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People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By scottzilla: The bullets come out really slow. Originally Posted By scottzilla: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: Can you even own real guns in New York? The bullets come out really slow. |
I bought all this equipment. What do you mean that the dead AREN'T coming back to life?
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Originally Posted By 03RN: AI response 1. Consumer Class-Action SettlementsThe Hartley v. SIG Sauer Settlement: SIG Sauer agreed to a consumer class-action settlement in Missouri. This agreement did not involve massive cash payouts to all owners. Instead, it covered up to $850,000 for plaintiffs' attorneys' fees and expenses, small payments of $1,400 to $2,800 to the named plaintiffs, and a commitment to refund customers who had previously paid out-of-pocket for repairs or to offer commercial refunds/replacements for unrepairable guns.Note: A separate, subsequent consumer class action in Missouri (Glasscock) attempting to seek cash damages for owners whose guns had not misfired was thrown out by the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals.2. Notable Trial Verdicts (Often Pending Appeal)While not voluntary settlements, SIG Sauer has been hit with major jury awards over the P320's design, though some have been reduced or vacated during post-trial motions:$2.35 Million (Georgia - Lang Case): In June 2024, a federal jury awarded $2.35 million to a Georgia man shot in the thigh while unholstering his weapon. This marked the first time a jury found SIG Sauer negligent for a P320 accidental discharge. A federal judge upheld the verdict, but SIG Sauer's appeal remains pending in the Eleventh Circuit.$1 Million / $11 Million (Pennsylvania - Abrahams Case): In November 2024, a Philadelphia jury awarded an Army veteran $11 million ($1 million in compensatory damages and $10 million in punitive damages). However, a judge later vacated the $10 million punitive portion, leaving SIG Sauer liable for the $1 million compensatory portion. Other Outcomes: Other trials have resulted in different outcomes. For instance, a Massachusetts jury found the gun defectively designed but awarded $0 because the officer chose to continue carrying it despite knowing the risks. SIG Sauer also secured a complete defense verdict in a Maine trial, where a jury rejected the holstered-discharge theory. Because SIG Sauer is a privately held company and continues to litigate dozens of individual cases through its legal team, any private out-of-court settlements reached with individual shooting victims remain confidential. Not sure about all those cases, but context on these are important, especially where there was a judgement. On the Lang and Abrahams cases (probably the others too), ask AI, "Defective how? Lack of a tabbed trigger and/or manual safety? Or defective in another way?" I got a similar answer to you until I asked the follow-up fyi, but I knew some of these were over safeties specifically. The core defect in both of those cases: A pre-cocked, striker-fired pistol sold without any external safety — no manual thumb safety and no tabbed/blade safety on the trigger — making it, in the plaintiffs' argument, unreasonably prone to firing from something other than a deliberate, full trigger pull (e.g., pressure from a holster, clothing, or debris catching the exposed trigger). Glock and others have also been sued and lost to plaintiff-friendly juries for not having a manual safety and/or related safety messaging. And it's been said here before too, police unions pushing these lawsuits to protect their members when there was likely a ND, not a UD. |
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Originally Posted By Kiltakaze: No matter how much you blow them, sig still wont be coming to your birthday party OP If the 385 series is anything like the 365 series internally, then no thank you I'd say no thank you as well to the P320 and M17... but unlike those, the P365 has a plunger style striker block and the manual safety blocks the sear. I would be surprised if the P385 doesn't have the same now. |
Sig Sauer is kicking A** (Page 5 of 6)
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