Posted: 7/23/2024 7:47:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pat][Edited]
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I have been retired from Law Enforcement for eight years now. But I most likely will get employed by a local School District (Police). I used to run a Colt 6920 with EOtech Holographic and 3x EOtech magnifier for at least 15 years. My Colt 6920 is now a registered SBR post Police. I was thinking about running a 11.5” Colt Commando upper with my Saker 556k suppressor. Good idea? Bad idea? Any suggestions. Firearms Instructors, Operators or other Police please give me your feedback. Thanks, Pat. Forgot to add: I replaced hand guard for a KAC M4 RAS with detachable light. |
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There are some long shots in hallways, even longer ones outside. I think that a magnifier or optic is a good idea. A suppressor is also a good choice for shooting inside enclosed areas and around other people. I don’t think barrel length is really a factor. I would say just use what you are most comfortable with. The key factor isn’t going to be the setup anyway. It’s going to be speed of response. Also, don’t forget visual ID, either by uniform or other means. |
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I work in an Elementary school. My desk is right at the main entrance and I got permission from the School Board and my Chief to keep a long gun with me. This summer, the district bought 3 Springfield Armory Saints. 1 for the High School and each Middle School. This is my Colt 6933, with a 10.5” Bbl now. KAC rail, Surefire x300 and Trijicon MRO. I just replaced the MRO with a 2X TA47 ACOG. Attached File |
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Thanks for everyone's input. I had concerns with concussion in hallways and such but I had to deal with same issues when making an entry into houses and other buildings in the past. Maybe I’m probably better off using what I have used and trained with in the past. I will definitely need to practice transitioning from rifle to sidearm and vice versa. I’m sure I’ve gotten very rusty in 8 years. Thanks again, Pat. |
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My old agency's SROs were issued a Sig Rattler SBR with an Aimpoint and carried it in a backpack all day along with a trauma kit. They also had a shield and breaching tools in their office. I think your setup will work just fine. Personally, I would ditch the Eotech in favor of an Aimpoint but the magnifier is a great idea. I would add a quality white light as well. You're not likely to be in your office when shit pops off, so give some consideration to having the tools and supplies you think you will need for an active shooter incident on your person at all times. |
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Having been in a very similar situation like this before, I can suggest that you not worry about distance of the shot. People are moving everywhere and the probability of an open shot in the initial seconds or minute is low if there is a crowd. If there isn't much of a crowd, you should be able to hit a man sized target down the hallway with about anything. I know there are some buildings with super long hallways, but lighting generally doesn't allow me to actually see and identify anything in those cases. The biggest factor in my experience is that you have something on your person and are able to close in and stop the threat. I can make it anywhere in the building in a minute if I give it all I've got and there's nobody in the way. By that time, a guy might have a chance at a good shot regardless of the situation. If one needed to run to a location where the firearm is and then run to the shooter? That changes the odds for a lot of people. |
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Originally Posted By Pat: I have been retired from Law Enforcement for eight years now. But I most likely will get employed by a local School District (Police). I used to run a Colt 6920 with EOtech Holographic and 3x EOtech magnifier for at least 15 years. My Colt 6920 is now a registered SBR post Police. I was thinking about running a 11.5” Colt Commando upper with my Saker 556k suppressor. Good idea? Bad idea? Any suggestions. Firearms Instructors, Operators or other Police please give me your feedback. Thanks, Pat. Forgot to add: I replaced hand guard for a KAC M4 RAS with detachable light. Dump magnifier unless you have really bad eyeballs, add TQ to stock with ranger band. Add BUIS. Add light. Add sling if you don't already have one. I used to use a redi-mag with a spare 30rd on the rifle, and around 4 hours into a SWAT callout began hating my life. Shed as much weight as possible, and unless you're in a mall or someplace very wide open you won't need the magnifier. That 8lb-10lb rifle will start to feel like 30lb about an hour later. (I'm not SWAT, I was just a perimeter guy until SWAT got there and relieved us). |
If you own M&P40 Ser. CPD1915 I will trade you a new M&P40 M2 for it. It belonged to a friend of mind who is deceased.
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Suppressors were never on the menu years ago when we got rifles. We got DDM4 rifles with 14.5" barrels and Aimpoint PROs. Of course, this year chief okayed suppressors and we ordered the flow 556k. If I had known this was a possibility, I would've asked for 11.5 or 12.5" barrels. |
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Originally Posted By rock71: There are some long shots in hallways, even longer ones outside. I think that a magnifier or optic is a good idea. A suppressor is also a good choice for shooting inside enclosed areas and around other people. I don’t think barrel length is really a factor. I would say just use what you are most comfortable with. The key factor isn’t going to be the setup anyway. It’s going to be speed of response. Also, don’t forget visual ID, either by uniform or other means. This bears repeating. I like gear as much as the next guy, but getting there as quickly as you can and engaging the suspect(s) far outweighs your gear setup. That being said, I have arrived at an 11.5" carbine with a small K can, a Razor 1-6 (because the 1X is really good, and I'm more likely to need 1x than 6x), a Streamlight HLX, a Vickers padded 2-point sling and a MagPul 40 round--so I can monopod off it with my plate carrier on. Train with whatever you have and be willing to press the fight should it come. That's more important than Gucci gear. |
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Breaching, link up with responding elements, a clear and simple plan for clearing, triage, evacuation, and segregation of bystanders from victims…and speed. Planning and rehearsal creates speed. Rifles are cool. I applaud your foresight. That said…you have a solid setup…focus hard on planning and rehearsal. |
Not sure if this is helpful but this vid makes a good case for need\use of a weapon mounted white light during the daytime, International Legion Combat GoPro | House to House Clearing |
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If you're responding into the school then a rifle is a must. If you're stationed inside the school...then a really capable optic sighted pistol plus the hard holding skill to use it would be a more practical approach. Think Open Pistol and an "A" card. I was an SRO in an elementary school(with 7 entrances covering a couple of acres) for a year, and I was more likely to be a hundred yards away from my unsecured closet(office) than I was anywhere near it, and the accessing a secured rifle was just a non starter. Speed is literally life, as every gunshot heard is another child killed or crippled. So I assembled a "Roland Special" and tripled down on mid and long range practice. Those saying that their departments issue backpack rifles to SROs...are those actually being worn 40+ hours a week? From the moment they exit their vehicle in the morning until they enter it at the end of the day? And are these assembled rifles? |
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Originally Posted By feudist: If you're responding into the school then a rifle is a must. If you're stationed inside the school...then a really capable optic sighted pistol plus the hard holding skill to use it would be a more practical approach. Think Open Pistol and an "A" card. I was an SRO in an elementary school(with 7 entrances covering a couple of acres) for a year, and I was more likely to be a hundred yards away from my unsecured closet(office) than I was anywhere near it, and the accessing a secured rifle was just a non starter. Speed is literally life, as every gunshot heard is another child killed or crippled. So I assembled a "Roland Special" and tripled down on mid and long range practice. Those saying that their departments issue backpack rifles to SROs...are those actually being worn 40+ hours a week? From the moment they exit their vehicle in the morning until they enter it at the end of the day? And are these assembled rifles? Not a cop and not even an 11B, but this would be my thought. Speed=Life. I'd even argue a 20 rd mag if you insist on a rifle. I'd also strongly push you to advocate IFAKs in each class, fire extinguisher and accessible on the playground. |
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Originally Posted By Epyon: Dump magnifier unless you have really bad eyeballs, add TQ to stock with ranger band. Add BUIS. Add light. Add sling if you don't already have one. I used to use a redi-mag with a spare 30rd on the rifle, and around 4 hours into a SWAT callout began hating my life. Shed as much weight as possible, and unless you're in a mall or someplace very wide open you won't need the magnifier. That 8lb-10lb rifle will start to feel like 30lb about an hour later. (I'm not SWAT, I was just a perimeter guy until SWAT got there and relieved us). I was on a SWAT team for four years and I agree completely. By the end of my time on the team I carried a 30 round mag in my rifle and a second 30 round mag on my vest. 2 spare pistol mags on my belt. Aside from that on my kit I had a folding knife. Small mirror on collapsible stick. Med kit/TK. Gas mask. 1 pouch for flash bang. And a misc. pouch that I kept 8oz of water, a few snack bars and candy in. I've been on a lot of call-outs. The first thing I really learned is you want your gear as light-weight and stream-lined as possible. You also want it to be as quiet as possible. Nothing rattling or making noise. You also want the ability to sit in place for a long time if need be. My longest time was 9 hours. At that point I realized snacks and a shot of water is quite useful to have to keep you going. And a bit of sugar to suck on. As far as carrying extra ammo I knew a few guys that carried a full loadout of six extra AR mags and 3-4 extra pistol mags. Even if we were raiding a structure with 10-15 guys in-side no way in hell would I carry that much. If I absolutely knew there were going to be a lot of guys I might drop a third AR mag in my back pocket.  If I were in the OP's position I'd have a 10.5 or 11.5" barrel AR. A 2 point sling. A decent light. Either an EOTeck or Aim-point optic. I'd also co-witness iron sights. If you want elevated optics as long as you can still use/see you're irons through it even if its at the lower portion. If your optic fails you want the ability to go straight to irons. I would not put a suppressor on the rifle. You want to be as light-weight, compact and streamlined as possible. In the event of an active shooter in a school, concussion and the noise from your gunshots will be irrelevant. Considering daytime hours muzzle flash won't be that big of a deal. And you most likely won't be 'shooting and communicating' with other people with suppressed rifles. Some dudes like magnified optics. But in/around a school its probably not 'that' big of a game changer. You just need to be a competent shot. Suppressors have their place. Just not a fan of the extra weight/length on the rifle. I'd sooner use a 16" light-weight barrel with an A2 flash hider. |
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You have a good set up. Cardio, marksmanship, and fortitude are what I would focus on. Stuff like doing wind sprints and hostage shots. Making good hits when you are out of breath with an elevated heart rate gets tricky, and is a good way to simulate stress. Also good for learning the limits of your capabilities and push them further. |