Posted: 4/9/2025 9:06:36 PM EDT
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I am the “Rangemaster” at my dept. approx 55 road officers. I have 3 “range officers” under me that do all of our yearly in-services and re-quals. I am a regular shooter, stay up on current trends, classes, TTPs etc… the other three are not really any of the above. We are all relatively young and are all on our SWAT team (I know, that doesn’t mean much…  )I pride myself on bringing good, practical shooting in-services to my dept. even if it’s not everyone’s “thing” there. Problem I am having, I expect myself (and my range officers) to be held to a higher standard than anyone else there, and when we demo drills, courses of fire, etc. or do the “fun” competitions with the classes, we should be shooting BETTER than anyone else - probably. Last in-service I made my staff run the same drill as everyone else, solo, on a timer and well, I think understandably so, some in the class were thinking, “wait, why are they teaching ME how to shoot?” I know this is pretty status quo around the country, But do any of you range guys hold your staff to a higher “qual/test” standard to remain on range staff etc? If so, I would love to hear from you and if you have any advice, please put it here or PM me. |
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Originally Posted By matt58: Everyone wants to be a firearms instructor until it’s time to do firearms instructor shit… This exactly. I’m the lead instructor for my agency and run our training division. I hold all instructors to a higher level. It is part of our division policy and all are reviewed. Coming up, most of my instructors were retired on duty, accept for one. He always went above and beyond to learn new techniques as well as how to work with all types of learning styles. He was the driving force for me to go into training. If we expect people to push themselves and also train on their own, we, as trainers need to set a better example. |
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It's an additional duty at every agency I worked for. At least none of the firearms instructors complained about being at the range the way some of the patrol " students" did. Generally, in my agencies the range instructors scheduled their own range days ahead of the training days for everyone else. It gave the instructors a chance to run through the schedule for the various classes, who was in charge of running which course of fire, who was responsible for the logistics to run the range, making sure that anything needed for the range like steel plates, reactive targets were available, etc. We all ran through the planned classroom and live courses of fire and critiqued everything so that everyone looked proficient when you had students on the line. If an instructor had to be absent for court or due to illness that process meant that another instructor could pick up the course of fire outline and run the class Nothing makes you look unprepared like coming to the range with a course of fire that your range cadre haven't tried themselves, critiqued and re-worked to improve. I've seen unprepared range staff at various ranges I've been on. I've seen instructors do stupid things like pulling a firearm on the line while facing students to demonstrate something without clearing the handgun, only to be called out by a student and the instructor found out he had a live firearm. Another instructor was demonstrating a draw, lost control of his firearm and the gun literally flew from his hand and went sailing downrange towards the target line. I've also seen instructors who impressed the class with a level of proficiency that the student shooter would attempt to emulate. Everyone has bad range days, but an instructor who under-performs in front of the students should be able and willing to identify to the students what s/he did wrong that resulted in the subpar shooting, without sounding like they're making excuses. Sorry if that was a wall of words. |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Many agencies put "company men" in Firearms Instructor's positions. For what ever reason, many LEO's covet the title FIREARMS INSTRUCTOR and a fair portion of them are nothing more than average shooters. Many of them do nothing on their own to improve and only take continuing education when it's recertification time. IMO a good instructor should: 1. Be safe. Of all things, a good Firearms Instructor should be an excellent gun handler and have keen situational awareness for what's going on 360-degrees. They should be focused at all times and understand that accidents/mishaps simply can't happen. Any instructor that causes a ND, injury, or property damage should be removed immediately and never be allowed reinstatement. A safety violation such as flagging personnel during live fire (any time really) is grounds for immediate removal. I've removed people from our SWAT team for doing just that (first offense was a severe warning and counseling, second time was the end of it). 2. A functional shooter with all issued platforms... pistol, rifle, shotgun. Not a one-trick pony. Notice I said functional... not a champion level shooter with a room full of trophies. Most agency courses of fire are quite easy to "pass" (not ace) by a shooter with general skills. The instructor should consistently perform in the 90% and above range on qualifications. The instructor's "points" or successful "hits" should have the same emphasis as time taken to deliver those successful hits. In other words, to me, the better shooter is the one who can put X rounds within the successful score box faster whereas the overall group size might be large vs. the shooter who chews out the center of the score box but takes more time to do so. This is combat shooting and the hits and time taken to achieve those hits matters, not nice consolidated groups on a qualification target. When assessing an instructor's skills... I say keep this in mind as this isn't target oriented shooting. 3. Be analytical. It does no good to call yourself an instructor if you can't watch a shooter and spot performance inhibitors. Many times folks are struggling to qualify and instructors just parrot the same old stuff... well... that's fine it it applies... but are you as an instructor actually seeing a problem or are you just running through the standard list of "possible" problems. Otherwise you're a Range Safety Officer, not a Firearms Instructor. We qualify about 600 retired folks each year under LEOSA and guys just sit and watch shooters throw rounds with little to no corrective guidance. The corrective guidance comes AT THE BEGINNING of the course right from the start... not half way through the course when you realize your shooter might not qualify. 4. Seek as much outside training as possible. Too many instructors never take a class until it's recertification time. The "why should I, I'm an instructor"? attitude is a tell-all on one's commi0tment to being a professional. Passing the instructor course is the BEGINNING of a successful instructor's career... not the end-goal. I'm letting my cert expire next year. I'm tired of working with folks who just want the title. Florida also changed some things and I'm too old to play their games. I also gave up a SWAT command a couple years ago for some of the same reasons. I live near a very well known firearms instructor, at times he would offer a few free spots in his classes for me to send my guys. You would think folks would jump at the opportunity... nope... got better things to do. |
| I thought firearms and taser for 20 years and had a similar problem. It was just myself and another instructor. I took every class I could find and paid for many myself. I couldn't get him to do it. Ohio Tactical Officers association offered many great firearms classes you could take back for the average officer. I couldn't get him to go. So I feel your pain and your problem unfortunly is not unique. |
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Originally Posted By fergus556: I thought firearms and taser for 20 years and had a similar problem. It was just myself and another instructor. I took every class I could find and paid for many myself. I couldn't get him to do it. Ohio Tactical Officers association offered many great firearms classes you could take back for the average officer. I couldn't get him to go. So I feel your pain and your problem unfortunly is not unique. And makes me glad to be retired |
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The current and last agency I work for have a higher standard for FI school than the normal qual. My last agency was a 255/300 passing for agents, but to be considered for FI school it was 285/300. My current agency is 200/250 normal passing, but FI school here is 225/250 minimum. Most guys that request to go to FI school are pretty regular 240/250+ through the last year or two to even be considered. They also have to be a minimum 225/250 qual on the M4 as well. None of the instructors I work with have any issue stepping up on the line and running a demo, or shooting a qual while standing with the regular agents. Most will shoot a perfect score a few or more times per year. Before they get sent to school they are told “if you get called out, you better be ready to put your money where your mouth is…” if they are not prepared to perform on demand, they dont get sent to FI school… (We qual 4 times a year, and every time with every weapon we are authorized to carry) For some that may be two or 3 different pistols, an M4 and a subgun. |
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In my opinion range staff/instructors should be better then their students. You should be able to score 100% easily on any firearms qualification that your agency does. You should be able to demonstrate something and make it look easy to the students. They should have confidence in your abilities and your ability to teach. Honestly man its as simple as in the morning when you get dressed practice drawing and dry firing 25 times. You should be able to clear your weapon, draw and dry-fire 25X and reload your weapon ready to go in under 15 minutes. Do the same thing in the afternoon before you get undressed. 50 repetitions a day that you work. Focus on a smooth/fast draw but a deliberate/accurate dry fire. I only work 15 days a month. But that's 750 draw strokes and dry fires in a month. 9000 a year. It sounds like a lot but we're talking just 20-30 minutes of effort a day only on the days I work. You should also probably be shooting at least 50-100 round a week. 1 day per week isn't much. It doesn't take 'that' long to shoot that much. That's 2600-5200 rounds down range per year. If that's not feasible get together with your range staff 1-2 days a month. Make a day out of it. Bring a BBQ pit and yall grill and have a good time in-between practice... I believe in taking pride in what I do. When I put on a uniform I want to look good in it, with it well fitted. I want to look lean, muscular and capable. When I step onto the range I want to be able to perform. If I offer someone some advice on shooting I want them to listen and know that I know what I'm talking about. Assuming your on SWAT and are a shooting instructor because you like those things. That means sometimes you have to sacrifice your free time to be excel at those things. If you can't train on the clock you have to be a bit more dedicated and do it on your own time. I'm not in a position to train much on the clock. I'm simply too busy at work. That means I work a 12h shift and I spend 45-120 minutes per day on my own time doing what needs to be done. Whether that be marksmanship, BJJ/DT, or PT. If its a work day I put in 45-60 minutes after work. If its a day , I put in a solid 1.5-2h. My wife is not happy on those work days I am gone for 5:30AM. And I don't get back home till 7:00PM. But that's just the nature of the beast. I pack a bag with extra clothes. Food. Water. Etc. But I agree its probably too much. Just 30M per day on a work day is more then enough if you're strapped for time. My hour to myself before going home is my me time. I'm going to blast some music and do my thing. Preferably by myself.
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I have one other FI or 65 armed. Passing for our guys is 78% we both shoot 95+% every time. I took over two years ago. When I went to instructor school I out shot the 8 other students and the instructor. It was eye opening for me. I was a A class USPSA shooter and was hoping I could keep up. What I have found after getting to a few more classes is that there are some very good and dedicated instructors but as a hole most are timer holders who maybe shoot a little better then the average officer. My biggest complant is that I/we cant hold people to a higher standard. 78% for us is 38 out of 50 and the 12 that miss don't even have to hit the paper. I am alowed no other standard so if they get the 38 or better all is good. We don't even recorded a score its scored pass fail. |
Peter had been right, always right; the power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you can't kill then you are always subject to those who can, and nothing and no one will ever save you.”
| Our range staff were required to pass a qual course with a minimum 90% all rounds must be accounted for and anything outside the 8 ring was considered a miss only counting as 5 points anything off target on the B12 was an automatic disqualification. Lots of people got sent home before ever getting the opportunity to attend the rangemaster course. |
| At one time our Range Staff had to pass the Instructor Course as Distinguished Expert or above... now... it's a freaking joke...I can't get any of the other Instructors to actually demonstrate what we are asking the troops to do.. because they are afraid of messing up and looking bad.. I firmly believe the Range Staff should not only be able to TEACH...but be able to do anything we ask of the Troops, Cold, on demand... and better and faster than we expect them to. |