Posted: 2/17/2025 5:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: billygoat69][Edited]
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Attached File About two weeks ago I received a letter requesting to survey and or soil bore for a proposed transmission line on our 10 acre camping / hunting property. After speaking with the point of contact for the project and the public service commission it is my understanding that these will be 69kV lines that are approximately 70 - 90 feet tall. The pink box on the map is the proposed area of right of way and the green line is the approximate spot of the lines. The camper is permanently in place and connected to electric, septic, and a well all of which are basically right on the pink line behind the camper. Our existing electric is ran underground so these are completely new power lines. The trees are all white pines that my father and I planted 30 years ago to provide a visual screen to the road. What kind of headache am I looking forward to? How likely will it be to get them to pay for moving the camper, septic, well, and electric so it isn't right on the edge of the ROW? The public comment period is open until March 7th so I have a couple weeks to put together something to submit. ETA: Currently the only right of way is 33ft from the center line of the road, basically to the start of the trees just to the right of the driveway. |
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You want to know where the poles and guide wires for the poles will be located. Where they end up can affect your property usage. Set back from the road around here for those kind of lines is usually 20ft to 25ft from the road. There was a huge fight here in one area when they went for a 50ft set back, basically putting poles in fields. |
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Power Company will build the line. Trees on the ROW, usually are cut down to prevent them growing into the power line. They have a lot of resources and have seen your situation before. Your easiest hunting solution, sell and move. Make sure new property does not have ROW. |
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Originally Posted By boltedsafe: Power Company will build the line. Trees on the ROW, usually are cut down to prevent them growing into the power line. They have a lot of resources and have seen your situation before. Your easiest hunting solution, sell and move. Make sure new property does not have ROW. The only ROW on our property is the 33ft from center line normal utility ROW. They are proposing a new easement. Basically what I'm asking is if / when this does happen how do I ensure I get fair compensation for the removal of our privacy screen and more importantly get them to move my utilities. I'm not camping within falling distance of a transmission line. We've spent thousands of dollars and a huge amount of sweat equity putting in food plots and doing timber management in the last 5 years and it's been in the family for three decades. |
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Can they place the new lines in the existing ROW? 69KVA isn't really that big of a transmission line, ours were usually 138KVA and up. What is on the opposite side of the road? If there is no ROW now, you have quite bit of power over denying one, especially if there are other alternatives. [and of course no one is going to tell you that] |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By fxntime: Can they place the new lines in the existing ROW? My understanding is they can basically do whatever in the existing ROW, but because of the size of the lines they are wanting more offset from the road, hence going into the pine trees. These aren't going to be the really large metal ones but still very tall wooden ones. Opposite side of the road is 80 acres of private with no structure within a 1/4 mile, however it's also a separate township. |
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They will eventually win. What you are asking for is not unreasonable. Is there someone to contact on their end? Edit: reread your post. What did their contact say when you talked to them? They usually have a scale they are willing to pay or work with. We have power lines on our property from before I bought it. Reading the abstract, some farmers gave them the easement for free and some got tens of thousands of dollars. Nothing seemed uniform. So I guess they start at zero and go up |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: My understanding is they can basically do whatever in the existing ROW, but because of the size of the lines they are wanting more offset from the road, hence going into the pine trees. Originally Posted By billygoat69: Originally Posted By fxntime: Can they place the new lines in the existing ROW? My understanding is they can basically do whatever in the existing ROW, but because of the size of the lines they are wanting more offset from the road, hence going into the pine trees. I know they are allowed to but CAN they? |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By hollowhandle: They will eventually win. What you are asking for is not unreasonable. Is there someone to contact on their end? I've spoken to their POC and the state POC. So far it's still in the public comment period. I'm trying to get all my questions and asks lined up before making a formal comment. |
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Originally Posted By hollowhandle: They will eventually win. What you are asking for is not unreasonable. Is there someone to contact on their end? Edit: reread your post. What did their contact say when you talked to them? They usually have a scale they are willing to pay or work with. We have power lines on our property from before I bought it. Reading the abstract, some farmers gave them the easement for free and some got tens of thousands of dollars. Nothing seemed uniform. So I guess they start at zero and go up Haven't gotten to a contract yet. So far they've sent a "Voluntary Permission" and 1099 with two options. Option 1: Grants permission for surveying and soil boring - $750 signing fee. Option 2: Grants permission for surveying only - $250 signing fee. Myself and two others gave them a hard no and my dipshit neighbor directly to my right couldn't sign up for $750 fast enough. |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: I've spoken to their POC and the state POC. So far it's still in the public comment period. I'm trying to get all my questions and asks lined up before making a formal comment. Now is the time to talk to and stir up your neighbors. ETA: your one neighbor is a dipshit |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: Not without cutting trees on my property and three out of 4 neighbors. Not really sure what else you mean by this? Originally Posted By billygoat69: Originally Posted By fxntime: I know they are allowed to but CAN they? Not without cutting trees on my property and three out of 4 neighbors. Not really sure what else you mean by this? Set taller poles, hang the 69KVA on top and the lower secondary voltages under them. Use the existing ROW with no changes. Are these wood poles or tower types? [structural steel] Utilities will ALWAYS try for the cheapest and easiest way first even if there are multiple other choices. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By fxntime: Set taller poles, hang the 69KVA on top and the lower secondary voltages under them. Use the existing ROW with no changes. Are these wood poles or tower types? [structural steel] Utilities will ALWAYS try for the cheapest and easiest way first even if there are multiple other choices. Our current hookup is underground we don't have anything above ground. |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: Our current hookup is underground we don't have anything above ground. Originally Posted By billygoat69: Originally Posted By fxntime: Set taller poles, hang the 69KVA on top and the lower secondary voltages under them. Use the existing ROW with no changes. Are these wood poles or tower types? [structural steel] Utilities will ALWAYS try for the cheapest and easiest way first even if there are multiple other choices. Our current hookup is underground we don't have anything above ground. So there is nothing in the normal road ROW right now? Piff, they can piss off then most likely unless they are required to have more clearance due to voltage. [say 60 foot on each side of the lines] Wooden poles can easily be set in the exist 33 foot from C/L, towers would be a bit different. What kind of utility, state owned or public type with stockholders? |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/550306/ROW_jpg-3467041.JPG About two weeks ago I received a letter requesting to survey and or soil bore for a proposed transmission line on our 10 acre camping / hunting property. After speaking with the point of contact for the project and the public service commission it is my understanding that these will be 69kV lines that are approximately 70 - 90 feet tall. The pink box on the map is the proposed area of right of way and the green line is the approximate spot of the lines. The camper is permanently in place and connected to electric, septic, and a well all of which are basically right on the pink line behind the camper. Our existing electric is ran underground so these are completely new power lines. The trees are all white pines that my father and I planted 30 years ago to provide a visual screen to the road. What kind of headache am I looking forward to? How likely will it be to get them to pay for moving the camper, septic, well, and electric so it isn't right on the edge of the ROW? The public comment period is open until March 7th so I have a couple weeks to put together something to submit. ETA: Currently the only right of way is 33ft from the center line of the road, basically to the start of the trees just to the right of the driveway. They CAN do whatever they want to do to make you sign the easement. I've dealt with a lot of water line easements and while every location is slightly different in most cases the utility companies don't want to spend the time to go to court and condemn the easement. They will if they have to but they would rather not. It's bad for their image and it wastes some time and expenses. Your parcel is not a large parcel and I suspect moving a few lines is not going to be a problem. Getting them to plant a screen of 2" or 3" caliper trees to screen the property from the road shouldn't be either. I would ask them these questions and see what they say. Let it be known that you plan to object to the line if these items aren't met. The two questions I would really want to have answers to are: 1. What kind of structures are these going to be and where will they be located? 69kv lines won't be strung on little dinky single-phase poles. They are usually, but not always, strung on steel poles or square steel structures. If it's just a single 3-phase line probably the former and if multiple lines most likely the latter. I would NOT want a 69kv transmission tower in my front yard. Resale value goes to hell and every time there was a severe thunderstorm I would worry about it. 2. Why can't they go behind the camper, say a hundred feet or so from the road? Agree to get them a 20' or 30' access easement so they can get in to maintain the line. Your neighbor on the right will probably complain to them for the same reason so you might ask him how he feels about moving the line behind his place. The line would need a bend back in front of your barn probably. |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: So there is nothing in the normal road ROW right now? Piff, they can piss off then most likely unless they are required to have more clearance due to voltage. [say 60 foot on each side of the lines] Wooden poles can easily be set in the exist 33 foot from C/L, towers would be a bit different. What kind of utility, state owned or public type with stockholders? It's a co-op. I'm not sure what their exact reasoning is for not placing them in the existing right of way. All I was told is they will be 70-90 foot poles, no idea whether it's one line or multiple lines. It's connecting two substations that are around 7 miles apart. After my neighbor on the left who owns 40 acres there isn't private land for about 4 miles. |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: It's a co-op. I'm not sure what their exact reasoning is for not placing them in the existing right of way. All I was told is they will be 70-90 foot poles, no idea whether it's one line or multiple lines. It's connecting two substations that are around 7 miles apart. After my neighbor on the left who owns 40 acres there isn't private land for about 4 miles. Originally Posted By billygoat69: Originally Posted By fxntime: So there is nothing in the normal road ROW right now? Piff, they can piss off then most likely unless they are required to have more clearance due to voltage. [say 60 foot on each side of the lines] Wooden poles can easily be set in the exist 33 foot from C/L, towers would be a bit different. What kind of utility, state owned or public type with stockholders? It's a co-op. I'm not sure what their exact reasoning is for not placing them in the existing right of way. All I was told is they will be 70-90 foot poles, no idea whether it's one line or multiple lines. It's connecting two substations that are around 7 miles apart. After my neighbor on the left who owns 40 acres there isn't private land for about 4 miles. So what is on those 40 acres? A couple of mules? Jumping across roads is no big deal and done all the time. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By SACraig: They CAN do whatever they want to do to make you sign the easement. I've dealt with a lot of water line easements and while every location is slightly different in most cases the utility companies don't want to spend the time to go to court and condemn the easement. They will if they have to but they would rather not. It's bad for their image and it wastes some time and expenses. Your parcel is not a large parcel and I suspect moving a few lines is not going to be a problem. Getting them to plant a screen of 2" or 3" caliper trees to screen the property from the road shouldn't be either. I would ask them these questions and see what they say. Let it be known that you plan to object to the line if these items aren't met. The two questions I would really want to have answers to are: 1. What kind of structures are these going to be and where will they be located? 69kv lines won't be strung on little dinky single-phase poles. They are usually, but not always, strung on steel poles or square steel structures. If it's just a single 3-phase line probably the former and if multiple lines most likely the latter. I would NOT want a 69kv transmission tower in my front yard. Resale value goes to hell and every time there was a severe thunderstorm I would worry about it. 2. Why can't they go behind the camper, say a hundred feet or so from the road? Agree to get them a 20' or 30' access easement so they can get in to maintain the line. Your neighbor on the right will probably complain to them for the same reason so you might ask him how he feels about moving the line behind his place. The line would need a bend back in front of your barn probably. The section I'm on is about 3/4 of mile consisting entirely of private land coming from a state highway. After that they have about 4 miles of public to continue on before a short spot of private. Ideally they could just run underground, but according to my neighbor the POC claimed they couldn't do that with transmission lines. Resale value is important to me, we don't plan to sell ever, but it's definitely going to be a component of my opposition to this. Going behind them camper just puts it further into my front yard. It'd potentially save my pine trees but wouldn't change anything about moving the camper and utilities. |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: So what is on those 40 acres? A couple of mules? Jumping across roads is no big deal and done all the time. Pine plantation in managed forest until the far side where he has a camper and will have the same problems I'm encountering. He just put in a camper on a gravel pad, paid $6000 for electric and kept a strip of pine as screening after having a large yard cleared out. His camper and electric are set up the same distance from the road as mine. ETA: I don't know how it plays into it, but across the street to the north is a different town. |
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If the PSC is involved then they are looking to file eminent domain. More than likely they will succeed in getting a letter, talk to them and see what their offer is. More than likely you can negotiate up and get them to pay to move the camper and utilities. They will pay timber value of the trees, cut them down and give them to you if you ask. Don’t get a lawyer you will just be throwing your money away, it’s happening you just need to get maximum compensation for it. Now is the best time to negotiate because once the comment period is over and the PSC grants them a letter your negotiating power is zero. |
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Originally Posted By uniquesnd: If the PSC is involved then they are looking to file eminent domain. More than likely they will succeed in getting a letter, talk to them and see what their offer is. More than likely you can negotiate up and get them to pay to move the camper and utilities. They will pay timber value of the trees, cut them down and give them to you if you ask. Don’t get a lawyer you will just be throwing your money away, it’s happening you just need to get maximum compensation for it. Now is the best time to negotiate because once the comment period is over and the PSC grants them a letter your negotiating power is zero. Thanks. My goal is to avoid a lawyer for as long as possible unless it appears I’m going to get hosed. |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: Haven't gotten to a contract yet. So far they've sent a "Voluntary Permission" and 1099 with two options. Option 1: Grants permission for surveying and soil boring - $750 signing fee. Option 2: Grants permission for surveying only - $250 signing fee. Myself and two others gave them a hard no and my dipshit neighbor directly to my right couldn't sign up for $750 fast enough. everyone needs to stick together and say no and fight them at every turn you can't build or do anything in the ROW so its land that you own and pay taxes on that the utility controls. |
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Originally Posted By uniquesnd: If the PSC is involved then they are looking to file eminent domain. More than likely they will succeed in getting a letter, talk to them and see what their offer is. More than likely you can negotiate up and get them to pay to move the camper and utilities. They will pay timber value of the trees, cut them down and give them to you if you ask. Don’t get a lawyer you will just be throwing your money away, it’s happening you just need to get maximum compensation for it. Now is the best time to negotiate because once the comment period is over and the PSC grants them a letter your negotiating power is zero. You couldn't give any worst advice than that. I lost property to a state road project they offered 3,000 dollars I hired an attorney who got me 10,000 dollars it cost me a third of the 7,000 dollar difference |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/550306/ROW_jpg-3467041.JPG About two weeks ago I received a letter requesting to survey and or soil bore for a proposed transmission line on our 10 acre camping / hunting property. After speaking with the point of contact for the project and the public service commission it is my understanding that these will be 69kV lines that are approximately 70 - 90 feet tall. The pink box on the map is the proposed area of right of way and the green line is the approximate spot of the lines. The camper is permanently in place and connected to electric, septic, and a well all of which are basically right on the pink line behind the camper. Our existing electric is ran underground so these are completely new power lines. The trees are all white pines that my father and I planted 30 years ago to provide a visual screen to the road. What kind of headache am I looking forward to? How likely will it be to get them to pay for moving the camper, septic, well, and electric so it isn't right on the edge of the ROW? The public comment period is open until March 7th so I have a couple weeks to put together something to submit. ETA: Currently the only right of way is 33ft from the center line of the road, basically to the start of the trees just to the right of the driveway. Op something else to consider is the fact that other companys will use the new poles to run their cables as well. If you can't stop it see if you can get it in writing that they wont let phone, cable etc to use the right on way |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: Set taller poles, hang the 69KVA on top and the lower secondary voltages under them. Use the existing ROW with no changes. Are these wood poles or tower types? [structural steel] Utilities will ALWAYS try for the cheapest and easiest way first even if there are multiple other choices. They do not ALWAYS try for the cheapest. I have seen a ton of time spent in route planning trying to do the best while taking impacts into consideration. Also, kV speaks to voltage of the like, kVA speaks to capacity. Meet with their land group and pose some of the questions you have. Be clear in those questions in you public comment and write how it would affect you, i.e. if those existing utilities and camper location are within the new proposed ROW then list what would need to be done and how that would adversely affect you and your future use. |
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Quick update: talked to the town zoning commissioner today. He stated that alternative routes were brought up during their meeting with the transmission company. These were turned down due to additional miles of line needing to be added. They also stated these lines couldn't be run underground because they would need to be in an oil filled pipe which would cost hundreds of millions extra. Power company is stating these lines are needed to keep up with new business and residential builds. When I brought up that this seems more like a problem for the neighboring township he responded that they basically strong armed our town with "who do you think is going to be the lowest priority if this denied?". Also, these will not be wooden poles, but metal poles that rust to give them a wooden look. Each pole will be approximately 500 ft apart. There's a chance I could not have a pole of my property, but on the map it looks like they plan for one right next to my driveway. Was told the power company will conduct an assessment and offer a payment most likely at the mill rate. They will then pay for a secondary assessment of the landowners choosing. I'm guessing this will be the point in which I need to get a lawyer involved. |
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Originally Posted By billygoat69: I'm guessing this will be the point in which I need to get a lawyer involved. You and your neighbors who haven't signed the voluntary permission doc yet should see if one attorney will give you a discount/group rate if the firm negotiates for all of you. I would start shopping now. Based on your last post you're not stopping the line, you're negotiating for a payout because of the devaluation of your property. |
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