Posted: 2/14/2025 2:03:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Amish_Bill][Edited]
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Edit - I have the G4003g in my garage. I still low-key want a mill, but I need to clear space for an official home for the lathe first. My next most recent thread asks about me moving the gear this guy wants to sell. Well, I think I've figured out what the two big pieces are, and I'm curious if I should actually want these models. Despite some of the worlds crappiest pics and an interestingly vague description, I've identified these: Lathe Described as "(1) Precision gap bed lathe-16"-40"geared head,English/Metric feeds. " with this 'just good enough to not be obviously scammy' pic I visually matched it to a discontinued Grizzly G7958 Mill Described as "(2)Bridgeport style vertical /horizontal mill,auto horizontal feed/coolant system. " with an equally 'It looks much better in person' picture I can't find a page on their site, but I do see The Spec Sheet and The Manual for a G3616/3617 Any opinions on these two items? The deal would include a fancy drill press and a band saw, etc... but I'm really only worrying about these two parts. Edit - Update I hate to spew FB links, but what about an $1800 Tormach 770 CNC ? (Already sold - didn't even last a day) I asked about this $1900 CNC converted Grizzly in another thread. I've just reached out to ask about the conversion and required software. Or... a $3500 Grizzly 4003 w/ DRO ? And, just to complicate things, a $2500 13" South Bend . Whew... Even without any comments, I'm feeling better about Saturday. The pressure to bully my way through the other folks showing up to see his gear is greatly reduced now that I'm seeing some other decent local options. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
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110 or 220 1 phase is my preference - but only for simplicity. I've seen a lot of people refer to relatively inexpensive VFD or other convertors. Whatever it is, I need to keep it inside what an old Dryer outlet can supply. Heck... I should go check the P number on the outlet - it would suck if it was just a high amp 110... I don't know if I'm patient enough to wait for the next $2k Tormach to come around, so options like that CNC converted Grizzly mill are becoming more and more attractive. My main question though --- the mill and lathe in the 6 piece all-or-nothing I'm going to look at tomorrow - - "Slightly Old" Grizzly gear is outside what I know. At least the G4003 I found last night is still an active product. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
Originally Posted By Amish_Bill: 110 or 220 1 phase is my preference - but only for simplicity. I've seen a lot of people refer to relatively inexpensive VFD or other convertors. Whatever it is, I need to keep it inside what an old Dryer outlet can supply. Heck... I should go check the P number on the outlet - it would suck if it was just a high amp 110... I don't know if I'm patient enough to wait for the next $2k Tormach to come around, so options like that CNC converted Grizzly mill are becoming more and more attractive. My main question though --- the mill and lathe in the 6 piece all-or-nothing I'm going to look at tomorrow - - "Slightly Old" Grizzly gear is outside what I know. At least the G4003 I found last night is still an active product. VFD's on 3 phase motors are great on machines like step pulley Bridgeports or gear lathes....they give you the ability to wire in a potentiometer to have more flexibility / control on RPM's. The programming can be a little intimidating the first time because they have so many options but in practice you typically only need to change a handful of setting depending on the application. My Heavy 10 Southbend runs a VFD on a 120v circuit and 2hp Bridgeport runs off a 240v (30amp I think) circuit. Just food for thought while your shopping. I'd 100% validate what power you have available before you buy anything though. |
EP429: Today's lesson - Don't provoke ARFCOM. People will see your butthole.
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Originally Posted By fox2008: ... I'd 100% validate what power you have available before you buy anything though. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
I just had a good conversation with the local G4003G guy. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a member. It's a little more that I'd like to pay, but it should come with a 4 jaw, extra tooling, etc. All I need to do is find replacement bolts for the spider. I have a suspicion I might be giving him money once the bidding war on that all-6 lot is over. I'm not holding out a lot of hope for the big lot - I'm more showing up to be amused at how far people will go above his asking. I'm still miffed I wasn't confident enough to move on that Tormach.. but the CNC converted Grizzly isn't tooooo bad. Dude says the only thing not computer controlled is the spindle speed. Is that something that can be added? |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
Well... I'll be picking up the G4003g sometime in the next few days. :-) Fair warning - in no less than a week I expect to be the poster child for "I know just enough to be stupid."  |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
I think $3500 is too much for that 4003, but that's just me. What were they asking for the 16x40 and Grizzly mill? That 16x40 is probably twice the machine the 4003 is. It's not just about size, but construction and weight. That 16x40 weighs probably 2200-2500lbs. Good heavy bed stand, and head. The motor is down in the base. That's similar to my Jet 13x40 and it's a $10k+ machine new. Edit...Meh, $3500 might not be too bad with the DRO and those tool holders. I wouldn't be surprised if that was about new price for that lathe 10-15 years ago. I think we bought a 4003 for the school about 20 years ago for $2k, but it didn't have the DRO. |
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I bought the G0750G 12x40 lathe about six years ago. It was under $4k then. No DRO, that was a few hundred more. I think I am going to add a kit to mine. It’s basically the same as the G4003 with a knob change gear box versus levers. It, the G0750G still needs change gears which come with it to go back and forth on standard and metric threading. One has to look at what threading you plan on doing to see which machine is the better set up. IIRC the 0750 has more options but with the change gears and the 4003 does more without as many change gears. It’s snowing and freezing rain here and I have been delaying playing with my lathe today. I am needing to make some special expanders for cast bullets. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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If you buy more tool holders ask around. Some of the generic Chinese holders aren’t that nicely made and others are pretty nice. I don’t recall which supplier I bought the first batch of tool holders from but I had to take a file and clean the inside corners up to allow the tool to sit right and tight in to the corner. I bought three more from Accusize Tooling and the quality is much better. I was trying their 5c collets out and threw the tool holders on that order while I had a discount of ten percent coupon. The collets are spot on so far. They make me second guess spending the money on the Bison brand collet chuck. The Accusize collet chuck was half the cost of the Bison. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Oh and if you are good at reading between the lines you will notice that buying the extra tooling along the way is where a lot of the money is. Buy what you need when you need or deals on really good tooling. My latest thing is searching Ebay every so often for new or as new name brand tooling. If you are careful and wait for the right deal you can buy the big name insert tool holders that go for $110-130 for $35-60. Just know what exact tool you want before you go looking so as not to waste your time. The majority of tools listed are for much larger commercial machines and either do not fit yours or aren’t the right rake for lower power machines we amateurs are using. I specifically avoid any used insert tooling that doesn’t look new. I want nothing modified or altered and I skip anything that has anything but slight wear. I don’t want someone’s cast off with a stripped screw hole, a beat pocket or a battered face from a crash. I picked up an as new Kennametal 5/8” shank insert threading tool holder for $35 plus shipping. I grind some HSS tools but lately I feel like trying more insert tooling. The first kits I bought was utter garbage quality and I admit I abused them. It soured me on insert tooling for a while. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Originally Posted By Boostinjdm: I think $3500 is too much for that 4003, but that's just me. What were they asking for the 16x40 and Grizzly mill? ... Originally Posted By Boostinjdm: I think $3500 is too much for that 4003, but that's just me. What were they asking for the 16x40 and Grizzly mill? ... Grizzly list for the G4003g (turns out it's NOT the same as a g4003) is $5845 + $499 freight. I'm getting some drops for practice, the DRO, some indicators, a stack of tool holders, 4 jaw, drills sized for my F1 baffles, and a fair bit more. It runs quiet and smooth, a test cut was clean, and I think all it really needs is a rag & some WD40 to look good. I'll be asking when it's last head oil change was. As an added bonus (for me), it's big, but not too big. 2hp 1ph 220, shipping weight 1300+, but not production shop huge. I'll be able to move it with an engine hoist, it will fit in the space I can make for it, and it has a 1.57" spindle bore. It hits right in the Goldilocks zone. Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: I bought the G0750G 12x40 lathe about six years ago. It was under $4k then. No DRO, that was a few hundred more. ... One has to look at what threading you plan on doing to see which machine is the better set up. IIRC the 0750 has more options but with the change gears and the 4003 does more without as many change gears. ... Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: If you buy more tool holders ask around. Some of the generic Chinese holders aren't that nicely made and others are pretty nice. .... The Accusize collet chuck was half the cost of the Bison. Originally Posted By SteelonSteel: Oh and if you are good at reading between the lines you will notice that buying the extra tooling along the way is where a lot of the money is. Buy what you need when you need or deals on really good tooling. ... I specifically avoid any used insert tooling that doesn't look new. I want nothing modified or altered and I skip anything that has anything but slight wear. I don't want someone's cast off with a stripped screw hole, a beat pocket or a battered face from a crash. I picked up an as new Kennametal 5/8" shank insert threading tool holder for $35 plus shipping. I grind some HSS tools but lately I feel like trying more insert tooling. The first kits I bought was utter garbage quality and I admit I abused them. It soured me on insert tooling for a while. Collets eh? I'll have to look into those. I recall hearing more than once that tooling can double the price paid- sort of like good optics on a rifle. The package includes some inside & outside threading tools, and I'm not even sure what else. The only thing that I know I'll need soon are cutoff inserts. Gotta be there in half an hour. Taking advantage of weekend hours without rain. :-) |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
"It turns out the 16/40 was really a 14/40... and beyond being dsicountinued, I'm reasonably suspicious that it was a bit of a scam. I got there a few minutes after the guy said he would be available and the wife didn't let the gate folks allow me in. It was a totality of all the little things in our communications, but enough just didn't seem kosher. I mean, who lists a 14/40 lathe, 2 ton mill, band saw, brake, two other things, and a cooling system for $2k?" Being discontinued is no biggie unless you're buying a fixer upper. A lot of the chinese/taiwan equipment share parts between similar models. My little mill is from the 60's or 70's, little lathe from the 80's, big lathe early 90's, big mill early 90's, big radial drill 90's, and my CNC machining center early 90's. Condition and features is far more important than age when it comes to machining equipment. Unless you're trying to be fast, then you want to take out a second mortgage and order new. At 2k? I'd say scam. Or the old guy lost his marbles. It happens, but it's rare to get a deal like that. |
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I know a lot of WWII equipment is still humming along. Being my first experience in the field, I'm happier if there's active manufacturer support. Heck - I was almost ready to splurge on a new PM1030 because I would be able to trust everything was exactly as it should be vs ignorance and doubt on the condition of something older than I am. The 6 pack sale... the more I thought about it, the more wary I became of its legitimacy. BUT... this Goldilocks lathe is resting comfortably on some cribbing in my garage. I'll be rearranging things, throwing things out, and generally making space for it over the next few weeks. With luck I'll be ready to level and power it by St Patty's Day. It's only fitting. I mean, the company color IS green. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
you should ck out FB Marketplace I've seen 5-10 hp rotary's go for $5 to $700.00 . I've been running a 10 hp in my shop for the last 15 yrs , I bought several 3 phase machines for scrap price just because they were 3 phase . there are good machines still out there to be had . |
All Gave Some / Some Gave All
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
Maj. Richard Ayers
4-16-70
http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/a/a048.htm
I'm haunting Craigslist and FBmp - - unless something else super-exceptional comes up (like that $2k Tormach 770) I'm going to let my wallet recover from the lathe I just bought - and the strapping and 2 ton engine hoist I got to move it. (Hey - Sunbelt was only $35 a day, but they were closed  )After the path I took to get to my Goldilocks lathe, I'm taking some of that experience into looking for a mill. I can't move (or fit) one old and big enough to be let go for low prices, but I'm also not considering the tiny units from HF, or even some of the smaller Grizzly's. Ahhh.. back to plotting what all I need to move or get rid of to get this lathe in place. I'm in the middle (still) of audit hell, but having it in my garage is still making me smile. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
Plan on leaving enough room in front of the lathe that you can get away if something goes pear shaped. Also, it's going to sling chips everywhere and they aren't easy to clean up being sharp. So more open area makes that easier too. Same goes for a mill, except you also have to consider that it takes maybe twice the space of it's footprint because of table movement and needing to access the various controls and adjustments all around it. I had my Jet (bridgeport clone) backed tight into a corner and it still took up a 5'x5' space plus some room to move around it. |
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I had the location all figured out in my head... till, who was it - Joe Pie maybe, pointed out how good it is to have free space to the left. Considering I plan on using the 1.5+" spindle bore, that layout got thrown out the window. Flung chips - I'll have to think on that one. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
|
I put my "machining" workbench to the left of the lathe. Where I kept my tooling, measuring tools, small completed or in progress parts, etc. That way if I ever needed to stick a long piece through the headstock it just hung over the bench. I put the tailstock tools and chip barrel to the right. I'd put up a few pics, but I don't have many hosted on line. I looked for a bit and couldn't find a good one. |
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My biggest challenge is the room layout. I can't block the fusebox or the crawlspace access, am hesitant to block the windows on one side or be too near the garage door on the other end, It will take me a minute, but I'll find something that allows space on the left while still being near 220, access to the things that need access, and makes me give up the minimum of bench or cabinet space. I'm just cranky because my Plan A has faults. |
Disclaimer - OP is bad at knowing things, and might catch on fire.
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
Vet - Op MMAMA
Every other species kills off their stupid......we cater to them. -- spin-drift
Nobody ever called 911&said I just did something smart. -- TheFlynDutchman
| Sometimes you gotta think outside the box with the arrangement a little. I had a 12x20 machining room (to be kept away from grinding dust). I had my Jet mill, 13x40 lathe, workbench, Millrite mill, shop press, 72" toolbox, couple cabinets, rotary converter, and still enough room in the middle to set up a table or small project. Maybe 6x8 of wide open space. |