Posted: 10/14/2024 7:38:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: drobs][Edited]
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This 44 page guide book is put out by the Jeep Jamboree organization and is an easy to read. It covers the basics of off roading and gets into the details right away. It's free and you can read it online. https://jeepjamboreeusa.com/drivingtips/index.html Attached File When I bought my 1st new 4wd vehicle, a Nissan Frontier, in 2006 I bought the previous edition of this book and read it. I would say it goes into greater detail than the Jeep Jamboree guide book. But both are good. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0760368058?tag=arfcom00-20 Attached File Why am I posting this? Off Road driving is not taught in drivers ed. Unlike the title of the Jeep Jamboree guide book, it is not common sense. |
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I didn't know we had an off-roading forum. I love off-roading, but I had to make due with what I had. I don't think you can learn it from a book. Experience counts. Off-road in FWD? Check. Off-road in RWD? Check. Off-road in 4WD? Check. Off-road in AWD? Not yet.  It's both science, and art. And one the funnest things I've ever done. I'm an amateur. I haven't done rock-crawling. But I'm not bad in dirt, mud, snow, and ice. Subscribed! |
Alea iacta est
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@drobs In northern Virginia, a lot of where we used to off-road have been off limits for decades. It sucks. Pre-1990s, off-roading was common. After 1990, the d-bags started charging people with trespassing. Most of us suburban kids didn't have land to drive on. It really ruined our off-roading culture. |
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It's cheaper to go slow then fast................... Always be polite and let someone else go first............. Always help first, then laugh at them second..............  And winches kill fools. Don't be a fool. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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Originally Posted By etslick: I didn’t see a specific mention, but at what point would one get beaded tires? If you mean beadlocks.... basically, you wouldn't. You're talking about rock crawling more than plain off roading to need them. Usually the last upgrade, added when absolutely needed. |
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Originally Posted By Ambridge77: @drobs In northern Virginia, a lot of where we used to off-road have been off limits for decades. It sucks. Pre-1990s, off-roading was common. After 1990, the d-bags started charging people with trespassing. Most of us suburban kids didn't have land to drive on. It really ruined our off-roading culture. I look at 4wd vehicles (street legal and ATV UTV's) as Freedom Vehicles. They allow you to go explore wilderness areas away from those liberal controlled cities where everything is paved and your freedoms are limited. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. There really was nothing available for off roading. I bought a 4x4 Nissan Frontier SE new in 2006 and bought that Four Wheeler's Bible book with the goal of learning everything I could about off roading in the future. Wisconsin had some gravel road wilderness areas but most of the true off road trails were closed to street legal vehicles. So the few times I use 4wd, it was 4wd high in the snow or on gravel. You can own a 4wd vehicle for a long time and never use 4wd low or use any of those basic off road skills mentioned in the guide book above. Wisconsin 2009 Attached File I moved to Missouri in 2010 but worked overseas (Iraq & Africa) from 2009 to 2019 as a civy contractor for KBR. When I came home in 2019, I bought a Toyota 4Runner with the goal of overlanding it. After taking it off road to some local off road areas I built it to handle the local terrain which is rocky with lift, AT/MT tires, rock sliders, skids, winch and bumper. At the time there was a huge Overlanding scene in Springfield, Missouri with 2 overlanding shops and monthly Rigs & Coffee meetups that end with trail rides in the local Mark Twain National Forest - Glade Top Trail area, which happens to be about 5 miles from my house!!! I had previously driven on the Glade Top Scenic Byway between my town and the town of Ava, Mo. I never really realized there were miles of awesome trails (Forest Service Roads) off that scenic byway till I joined a group of Overlanders out there. A few years ago, I joined a Facebook off road club called the Mark Twain Mafia. I've kind of taken over the group by leading almost weekly trail rides after the original founders got overwhelmed by life in general (kids, work, etc). Attached File Attached File I eventually saw the light and got a Jeep Wrangler. The 4Runner was good vehicle but... long, heavy, & wide. For the trail riding I do, a light weight small Jeep just makes more sense. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By etslick: I didn’t see a specific mention, but at what point would one get beaded tires? I going to make a generalization here... Most folks that I've met and wheeled with don't get bead lock wheels till they move to a 37 inch or taller tire. A bead lock wheel allows you to really air down your 37 inch to 42 inch tire to 6psi or less for going off road. The bead lock ring is bolted to the wheel and prevents your tire from loosing it's bead or coming off the wheel when your are spinning your tires when stopped, pedal to metal. At the start of every trail ride I lead, I recommend those with 33 inch to 35 inch tires to air down to at least 15psi. A Toyota Tacoma or 4Runner with stock 30 inch tires = low ground clearance, I'll recommend them to air down to 18 - 20 psi. A friend of mine runs his 33 inch (285/70R17) tires at 10psi regularly. Why do we air down our tires before going off road? Attached File An aired down tire makes your vehicle's ride, off road, way more comfortable. It acts like an additional shock absorber which protects your expensive suspension. Airing down allows your tire conform to the terrain / mold to rocks giving your more traction. In some cases (sand, snow, maybe mud) airing down allows your tires to float over the terrain instead digging in. Lastly and most importantly airing down your tires increases their resistance to punctures significantly. This short 2 minute 50 second video put on by Cooper Tires shows how your tire's puncture protection is increased by airing down.  Cooper Puncture Test |
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"I'm not a rock crawler" or "I hate mud." Are statements I've made in the past or heard from others. I find mud can be fun but am not a "mudder." Here in SW Missouri & NW Arkansas our ground is rocky and when it rains, there is mud. Trail riding in this area will have you experience both. 2 weeks ago I led a week day trail ride where we found the only patch of mud around for miles. We haven't had any significant rain in months. My friend Wil was following me through a tight section of trail. I went left, he went right and got stuck. I pulled him out with my kinetic rope used like a static strap:  Gentle Tug of a Kinetic Rope - Mark Twain Mafia 10/4/2024 Weekday Trail Ride Everyone else following us blasted through mud with smiles on their faces! I posted that video on tiktok and a kid commented: "Why does he have those useless highway tires on his Jeep, off road?" My response: Those tires are Mickey Thompson Baja Boss AT tires and mud makes all tires look like slick highway tires. |
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Originally Posted By RottenPumpkin: I avoid mud whenever possible. Went to Windrock in TN days after hurricane Helene went thru. Mud was unavoidable. https://i.postimg.cc/7ZrTrzt8/20240930-124315.jpg Any chance there was a White 4 door JK Rubicon from Missouri in your group? A friend of mine was out there at the same time. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Any chance there was a White 4 door JK Rubicon from Missouri in your group? A friend of mine was out there at the same time. Originally Posted By drobs: Originally Posted By RottenPumpkin: I avoid mud whenever possible. Went to Windrock in TN days after hurricane Helene went thru. Mud was unavoidable. https://i.postimg.cc/7ZrTrzt8/20240930-124315.jpg Any chance there was a White 4 door JK Rubicon from Missouri in your group? A friend of mine was out there at the same time. No. All Hoosiers. Ask him about the peanutbutter mud on trail 22. |
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Keeping the discussion going. On page 23 of the above guide book, driving up hill and down hill is mentioned. Attached File A frequent question from new folks joining my off road club is, has anyone ever rolled a vehicle on our trail rides? Thankfully no, at least not on our trail rides. I use 4wd low and go slow with a top speed of 5 mph on the trail. Frequently it's 1 mph going over the rocks. A normal trail ride lasts about 4 to 5 hours + air down / air up time. Recently we had a guy go out by himself to the area, get lost (no GPS), blow a tire (no spare), and roll his 4th gen 4Runner. Sounds like he was off his medication. A friend of his who is in my club went and rescued him. She called me asking for help. My Jeep was in the shop at the time and I really don't want to take my pavement princess F150 out there. I told her, I could meet her and ride with her. She said she was already on the trail looking for him. She found him soon after and got him home. They later went out and recovered his 4Runner. Attached File Attached File So going back to how do you prevent a roll over. If it feels like your going to roll your vehicle. Sometimes you need point your tires down hill and throttle out of it. That might not be the best idea on a shelf road out in Ouray CO. Attached File Or stop and winch. The owner of this Diesel G-Wagon is a member of my Club and owns a local Overland Accessory Store. He said he was tired and not paying attention when this happened. He winched it to drop it down. I wasn't on this trail ride but know the exact spot as it's on my favorite trail FS 912. Attached File Attached File Here's a youtube video of gal rolling her husband's pickup on a drop off.  He told his Girlfriend how to crash his 4x4! Well let's unpack that. What went wrong? 1st off her tires were pointed the wrong way. They were pointed up hill to the left when they should've been pointed down hill to the right. Attached File Attached File Her husband should have spotted that (as a spotter) and told her to turn them right - point her tires downhill! From there she might've been able to throttle out of it. What she really should've done is stop, backup, and either get in or straddle the ruts, to the right of her. That would allow her to go straight down the hill. |
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Back when I was just a young lad, like 14-15, we would wait til my buddies grandma went to bed about 9 and take her ‘75 Ford Elite out joy riding dirt roads at night. So we started young learning about off-roading. When I was 16, we would take my dads ‘68 Ford F250 2wd out off-roading, that’s where I really learned what a vehicle was capable of doing. We would go places that we had no business going. Learned the hard way about jacking, digging out, airing down, winching with a come along. It sucks to get stuck, it’s a lot of work as a teenager but the lesson was learned. By the time I finally got to use 4x4, I was well seasoned as an off-roader.  It’s quite amusing to watch YouTube videos of people getting stuck, out 4x4ing. I did at those adventures when I was just a kid in the 70’s. Sadly, all the best areas we would go are now closed or have been turned into golf courses or private property with fences or the government shut down the best routes to protect snails.
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Originally Posted By belchfire: Fist thing I learned back in 74 was don't go alone, it could be a long cold walk. I concur. I've found there is really no reason to go out alone with the invention of the internet. I've found there are loads of folks that would gladly join you off road to explore or run trails. Even last minute on a weekday. A lot of people hate Facebook and I understand. However, I recommend those folks keep a bogus burner account on FB for joining / being a member of Off Road Clubs. Or get the wife / girlfriend to use her account join off road clubs. A member of my off road club goes by Redneck Rick on Facebook. His real name is Paul. If you're looking to go off road and don't want to do it alone, join a local Facebook Jeep Club, Overland Club, Off Road Club, or start your own. With Jeep clubs you need to be careful. Lots of Jeep clubs rarely, to almost never, go off road. Many Jeep Clubs have group rides on pavement or parking lot car shows where they duck each other. Attached File Don't get hung up on vehicle type. My off road club is open to all makes of street legal 4wd vehicles. We even allow 2wd higher ground clearance vehicle owners to join us. While we aren't a ATV/UTV group, if someone wanted to take their ATV/SxS out with us, they are welcome to, they will be bored as we go slow. We had guy join us with a Dune Buggy. Attached File Attached File How to get a trail ride going? Either create an event in a Facebook group or make new post in a club. Include the following: Date, Time, Meeting location with GPS Coordinates, radio channel, what is expected. You might include what to bring: Lunch, water, good running vehicle with good tires, etc. Example I'm going out tomorrow morning to hit some trails in the area. I created this event: Attached File If you are going to lead the trail ride, try to show up a 1/2 hour early at the meeting spot. Then wait 1/2 hour after the meeting time for everyone to show up, air down, and disconnect their sway bars, if necessary. If you are exploring new to you trails - mention that. Let folks know that pinstripes to the paint are gonna happen. |
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Originally Posted By onthebreeze: If you mean beadlocks.... basically, you wouldn't. You're talking about rock crawling more than plain off roading to need them. Usually the last upgrade, added when absolutely needed. Beadlocks aren't just for rock crawling . I run Methods on my TJ and don't rock crawl. Usually run 10psi when I hit the Trailhead. When in deep snow I drop down to single digits. Beadlocks allow for a lot lower psi , which allows for more ground contact and a smoother ride.. |
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Originally Posted By Shadyman: Back when I was just a young lad, like 14-15, we would wait til my buddies grandma went to bed about 9 and take her ‘75 Ford Elite out joy riding dirt roads at night. So we started young learning about off-roading. When I was 16, we would take my dads ‘68 Ford F250 2wd out off-roading, that’s where I really learned what a vehicle was capable of doing. We would go places that we had no business going. Learned the hard way about jacking, digging out, airing down, winching with a come along. It sucks to get stuck, it’s a lot of work as a teenager but the lesson was learned. By the time I finally got to use 4x4, I was well seasoned as an off-roader. It’s quite amusing to watch YouTube videos of people getting stuck, out 4x4ing. I did at those adventures when I was just a kid in the 70’s. Sadly, all the best areas we would go are now closed or have been turned into golf courses or private property with fences or the government shut down the best routes to protect snails.Ditto. I grew up doing the same stuff. This was the pinnacle of my Toyota's. I still have a 4x4 Toyota but 6" lift and 35's are as tall as I can jump into now.  " /> |
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^^^Cool! I would like to go to 37 inch tires in the future and re-geared my 2 door JK to 4.88 gears + Eaton front and rear E lockers with that in mind. I also added a Ultimate Dana 44 to the front. Attached File Attached File Big 37 - 42 inch tires just roll over rocks and ledges so much easier than smaller tires. I've wheeled with a couple guys running 40 inch and taller tires. A friend of mine put 40's or 42's on his Gladiator Rubicon. The 1st time taking it out to the local national forest, he cut a sidewall. Cut it on a dead branch or stick. He has bead lock wheels and was able to patch the sidewall by sticking his hand inside the tire and using a Glue Tread repair kit. I showed up when he was bolting his bead lock rings back on. https://www.gluetread.com/ I wheeled with another guy on 40's that also took out a sidewall, the same way - log or stick in the woods. I think you have be extra careful on tire placement (in the woods) when you go to 40+ inch tires. |
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Originally Posted By Tjcj: Beadlocks aren't just for rock crawling . I run Methods on my TJ and don't rock crawl. Usually run 10psi when I hit the Trailhead. When in deep snow I drop down to single digits. Beadlocks allow for a lot lower psi , which allows for more ground contact and a smoother ride.. Sure, I get it. But due to the weight and complexity, it's best not to add them until you actually need them. Basically, if someone has to ask if they need them, the answer is no. |
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Originally Posted By onthebreeze: Sure, I get it. But due to the weight and complexity, it's best not to add them until you actually need them. Basically, if someone has to ask if they need them, the answer is no. The weight? My Methods are lighter then the steel wheels they replaced . And I agree 98% of people don't need them . Hell I wheeled 5 Toyotas and 4 jeeps before I bought them . |
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I too enjoy a bit of the offroading. Recovery gear and spare parts are top priority. Also not showing up with an already hurt rig helps. As for beadlocks they are meh for the most part. I ran 12.50s on 7.75 wide wheels for years at single digit pressures and never lost a bead.     |
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Originally Posted By gunhand1: I too enjoy a bit of the offroading. Recovery gear and spare parts are top priority. Also not showing up with an already hurt rig helps. As for beadlocks they are meh for the most part. I ran 12.50s on 7.75 wide wheels for years at single digit pressures and never lost a bead. https://i.imgur.com/irSEjvG.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/nDeYoQJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/FthTpzd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/gvOmFgV.jpeg I absolutely hate when people show up with and overheating vehicle or untested vehicle. Last year had a fellow show up with a 5.3 V8 swapped JK on a trailer I was participating in but not leading. Did he drive it around the block before bringing it on the trail ride? Nope. The thing started overheating a mile into the trail ride. Did he turn back and call it a day? Nope he limped it through the trail making what should've been a 3 hour trail ride, an 8 hour trail ride with all the stops to add water and coolant to the radiator. I eventually hooked a tow rope on him and dragged him for awhile. This kid joined a trail ride I was leading over the summer. Neat Datsun 6x6, I'd actually read about this exact vehicle in 4 Wheeler Magazine 10+ years ago. It was painted black and blue with lots of chrome.  It blew a radiator hose before we made it to the trail. Everyone got in there and worked on it. Thankfully he decided to go home instead of joining us on the trail. It would've been a pita to drag him off the trail.  |
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Originally Posted By drobs: I absolutely hate when people show up with and overheating vehicle or untested vehicle. Last year had a fellow show up with a 5.3 V8 swapped JK on a trailer I was participating in but not leading. Did he drive it around the block before bringing it on the trail ride? Nope. The thing started overheating a mile into the trail ride. Did he turn back and call it a day? Nope he limped it through the trail making what should've been a 3 hour trail ride, an 8 hour trail ride with all the stops to add water and coolant to the radiator. I eventually hooked a tow rope on him and dragged him for awhile. This kid joined a trail ride I was leading over the summer. Neat Datsun 6x6, I'd actually read about this exact vehicle in 4 Wheeler Magazine 10+ years ago. It was painted black and blue with lots of chrome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Merrit_Datsun_6x6_b-3424953.jpg It blew a radiator hose before we made it to the trail. Everyone got in there and worked on it. Thankfully he decided to go home instead of joining us on the trail. It would've been a pita to drag him off the trail. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Datsun-3424955.jpg That Nissan is wild looking! A little love and it would be good to go again. When we used to do big rides open to everybody you'd always have somebody showing up with trash to ride. Misfires, worn out ujoints just ready to pop, tires that won't hold air, transfer cases that won't go in 4low, etc. Always a pain. Now we keep it to a much smaller group of generally similarly built rigs (except me at this point, I'm still on 37s and everyone else has moved to 40"+). We have a lot fewer problems and usually get to cover many more trails. We still have breakages, and usually spectacular ones, but that's the nature of more hardcore crawling. |
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Originally Posted By gunhand1: That Nissan is wild looking! A little love and it would be good to go again. When we used to do big rides open to everybody you'd always have somebody showing up with trash to ride. Misfires, worn out ujoints just ready to pop, tires that won't hold air, transfer cases that won't go in 4low, etc. Always a pain. Now we keep it to a much smaller group of generally similarly built rigs (except me at this point, I'm still on 37s and everyone else has moved to 40"+). We have a lot fewer problems and usually get to cover many more trails. We still have breakages, and usually spectacular ones, but that's the nature of more hardcore crawling. Speaking of transfer cases that wont go into 4 low... I have to remind myself to make sure I tell everyone to use 4low at the start of every trail ride. This gent showed up in a Jeep that he'd had a for a few months. He bought it used with 35inch tires. His previously off road experience was Side by Sides.  Yikes a not so good run on FS 606. After he burned his clutch and finally successfully made it up the hill, I told him their is no shame getting a tug up over and obstacle. It's better than destroying your vehicle or rolling it. He said he was having difficulty getting his Jeep into low range. This ledgy hill climb has an easy side and a difficult side. Here's the easy side:  The easy side of 606 Here's the "hard" side.  A good run on 606 Both drivers were in 4low. Victor on the hard side had his front and rear lockers engage. He got up it better than I did. Mid way up, I needed to slide right & catch some traction before I could slide left and back into the ledges. I've been re-visiting all the hard spots in the local NF to see how my lockers perform on them. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Speaking of transfer cases that wont go into 4 low... I have to remind myself to make sure I tell everyone to use 4low at the start of every trail ride. This gent showed up in a Jeep that he'd had a for a few months. He bought it used with 35inch tires. His previously off road experience was Side by Sides.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQ48ers0mMAfter he burned his clutch and finally successfully made it up the hill, I told him their is no shame getting a tug up over and obstacle. It's better than destroying your vehicle or rolling it. He said he was having difficulty getting his Jeep into low range. This ledgy hill climb has an easy side and a difficult side. Here's the easy side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk5bwk33LvUHere's the "hard" side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMO1nRCAREBoth drivers were in 4low. Victor on the hard side had his front and rear lockers engage. He got up it better than I did. Mid way up, I needed to slide right & catch some traction before I could slide left and back into the ledges. I've been re-visiting all the hard spots in the local NF to see how my lockers perform on them. This forum really needs to come into the 21st century and figure out a notification feature. Poor dude was struggle bussing it on them ledges. Crazy how much that looks like WV to me, we have tons of trails and roads just like that. We will do a few bigger rides a year open to more people, but mostly we just wheel in our smaller core group, most newer drivers rigs aren't built for the ignorance we get into Exhibit A: I get really frustrated getting denied on the gatekeeper, so I yardsale my drivetrain   West Virginia Outlaw Trails Part:2 |
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Originally Posted By gunhand1: This forum really needs to come into the 21st century and figure out a notification feature. Poor dude was struggle bussing it on them ledges. Crazy how much that looks like WV to me, we have tons of trails and roads just like that. We will do a few bigger rides a year open to more people, but mostly we just wheel in our smaller core group, most newer drivers rigs aren't built for the ignorance we get into Exhibit A: I get really frustrated getting denied on the gatekeeper, so I yardsale my drivetrain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWwRz3EeKSQOriginally Posted By gunhand1: Originally Posted By drobs: Speaking of transfer cases that wont go into 4 low... I have to remind myself to make sure I tell everyone to use 4low at the start of every trail ride. This gent showed up in a Jeep that he'd had a for a few months. He bought it used with 35inch tires. His previously off road experience was Side by Sides. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQ48ers0mMAfter he burned his clutch and finally successfully made it up the hill, I told him their is no shame getting a tug up over and obstacle. It's better than destroying your vehicle or rolling it. He said he was having difficulty getting his Jeep into low range. This ledgy hill climb has an easy side and a difficult side. Here's the easy side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk5bwk33LvUHere's the "hard" side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnMO1nRCAREBoth drivers were in 4low. Victor on the hard side had his front and rear lockers engage. He got up it better than I did. Mid way up, I needed to slide right & catch some traction before I could slide left and back into the ledges. I've been re-visiting all the hard spots in the local NF to see how my lockers perform on them. This forum really needs to come into the 21st century and figure out a notification feature. Poor dude was struggle bussing it on them ledges. Crazy how much that looks like WV to me, we have tons of trails and roads just like that. We will do a few bigger rides a year open to more people, but mostly we just wheel in our smaller core group, most newer drivers rigs aren't built for the ignorance we get into Exhibit A: I get really frustrated getting denied on the gatekeeper, so I yardsale my drivetrain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWwRz3EeKSQWatching your video - yeah we try not to smash vehicles...  We're just trail riding in the local national forest. To find the type of wheeling you're doing here in Missouri you would have to go to an off road park like Smorr. https://www.smorr.net/ |
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Originally Posted By drobs: Watching your video - yeah we try not to smash vehicles... We're just trail riding in the local national forest. To find the type of wheeling you're doing here in Missouri you would have to go to an off road park like Smorr. https://www.smorr.net/ We all started out riding forest roads and old mine property for the most part. Then it turned into an arms race of who can crawl the gnarliest lines and trails and we all evolved into dedicated trail rigs where sheet metal and glass is optional |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: It's cheaper to go slow then fast................... Always be polite and let someone else go first............. Always help first, then laugh at them second.............. And winches kill fools. Don't be a fool. I've seen a lot of fools on the trail, none killed, but they took damage. |
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Originally Posted By drobs: I look at 4wd vehicles (street legal and ATV UTV's) as Freedom Vehicles. They allow you to go explore wilderness areas away from those liberal controlled cities where everything is paved and your freedoms are limited. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. There really was nothing available for off roading. I bought a 4x4 Nissan Frontier SE new in 2006 and bought that Four Wheeler's Bible book with the goal of learning everything I could about off roading in the future. Wisconsin had some gravel road wilderness areas but most of the true off road trails were closed to street legal vehicles. So the few times I use 4wd, it was 4wd high in the snow or on gravel. You can own a 4wd vehicle for a long time and never use 4wd low or use any of those basic off road skills mentioned in the guide book above. Wisconsin 2009 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/2009__jpg-3349986.JPG I moved to Missouri in 2010 but worked overseas (Iraq & Africa) from 2009 to 2019 as a civy contractor for KBR. When I came home in 2019, I bought a Toyota 4Runner with the goal of overlanding it. After taking it off road to some local off road areas I built it to handle the local terrain which is rocky with lift, AT/MT tires, rock sliders, skids, winch and bumper. At the time there was a huge Overlanding scene in Springfield, Missouri with 2 overlanding shops and monthly Rigs & Coffee meetups that end with trail rides in the local Mark Twain National Forest - Glade Top Trail area, which happens to be about 5 miles from my house!!! I had previously driven on the Glade Top Scenic Byway between my town and the town of Ava, Mo. I never really realized there were miles of awesome trails (Forest Service Roads) off that scenic byway till I joined a group of Overlanders out there. A few years ago, I joined a Facebook off road club called the Mark Twain Mafia. I've kind of taken over the group by leading almost weekly trail rides after the original founders got overwhelmed by life in general (kids, work, etc). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/5-29-21_Run_jpg-3349993.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Stuffed_JPG-3349995.JPG I eventually saw the light and got a Jeep Wrangler. The 4Runner was good vehicle but... long, heavy, & wide. For the trail riding I do, a light weight small Jeep just makes more sense. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/10-4-24_Weekday_trail_ride_3_jpg-3350000.JPG @drobs I agree. I'm in "Piedmont" VA, aka "Flatland" VA. I've probably used Low 4 only 3 times since my first 4WD in 2002 or '03. We suburban rednecks learned how to get around in 2WD & Front wheel drive. It taught us to be better drivers in suboptimal conditions. You don't get great without taking risks and pushing envelopes. And yes, I've sometimes gotten stuck, and ate crow asking for tows. (I hated asking for tows. I'd spend hours trying to get unstuck.)  |
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Originally Posted By Ambridge77: @drobs I agree. I'm in "Piedmont" VA, aka "Flatland" VA. I've probably used Low 4 only 3 times since my first 4WD in 2002 or '03. We suburban rednecks learned how to get around in 2WD & Front wheel drive. It taught us to be better drivers in suboptimal conditions. You don't get great without taking risks and pushing envelopes. And yes, I've sometimes gotten stuck, and ate crow asking for tows. (I hated asking for tows. I'd spend hours trying to get unstuck.) Originally Posted By Ambridge77: Originally Posted By drobs: I look at 4wd vehicles (street legal and ATV UTV's) as Freedom Vehicles. They allow you to go explore wilderness areas away from those liberal controlled cities where everything is paved and your freedoms are limited. I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, Illinois. There really was nothing available for off roading. I bought a 4x4 Nissan Frontier SE new in 2006 and bought that Four Wheeler's Bible book with the goal of learning everything I could about off roading in the future. Wisconsin had some gravel road wilderness areas but most of the true off road trails were closed to street legal vehicles. So the few times I use 4wd, it was 4wd high in the snow or on gravel. You can own a 4wd vehicle for a long time and never use 4wd low or use any of those basic off road skills mentioned in the guide book above. Wisconsin 2009 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/2009__jpg-3349986.JPG I moved to Missouri in 2010 but worked overseas (Iraq & Africa) from 2009 to 2019 as a civy contractor for KBR. When I came home in 2019, I bought a Toyota 4Runner with the goal of overlanding it. After taking it off road to some local off road areas I built it to handle the local terrain which is rocky with lift, AT/MT tires, rock sliders, skids, winch and bumper. At the time there was a huge Overlanding scene in Springfield, Missouri with 2 overlanding shops and monthly Rigs & Coffee meetups that end with trail rides in the local Mark Twain National Forest - Glade Top Trail area, which happens to be about 5 miles from my house!!! I had previously driven on the Glade Top Scenic Byway between my town and the town of Ava, Mo. I never really realized there were miles of awesome trails (Forest Service Roads) off that scenic byway till I joined a group of Overlanders out there. A few years ago, I joined a Facebook off road club called the Mark Twain Mafia. I've kind of taken over the group by leading almost weekly trail rides after the original founders got overwhelmed by life in general (kids, work, etc). https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/5-29-21_Run_jpg-3349993.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/Stuffed_JPG-3349995.JPG I eventually saw the light and got a Jeep Wrangler. The 4Runner was good vehicle but... long, heavy, & wide. For the trail riding I do, a light weight small Jeep just makes more sense. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/41568/10-4-24_Weekday_trail_ride_3_jpg-3350000.JPG @drobs I agree. I'm in "Piedmont" VA, aka "Flatland" VA. I've probably used Low 4 only 3 times since my first 4WD in 2002 or '03. We suburban rednecks learned how to get around in 2WD & Front wheel drive. It taught us to be better drivers in suboptimal conditions. You don't get great without taking risks and pushing envelopes. And yes, I've sometimes gotten stuck, and ate crow asking for tows. (I hated asking for tows. I'd spend hours trying to get unstuck.) @Ambridge77 My daily driver is a 2019 Ford F150 Platinum. I rarely use 4wd low in it. It has a rear locker and I'm sure it would work just fine out on the trails but... I don't need 2 vehicles that are scratched up and dented. It makes a great road trip vehicle and I got to do some sand driving with it last year in Florida.  Re getting stuck:  There's an off road park called Hooter Holler nearby that I've visited 3 times and on 1 section of the trails, I've needed to winch every single time. https://hooterholler.com/ A buddy of mine came up with the above statement "If you ain't winchin, you ain't wheelin." He had stickers made and gave me 1. Recently, I added 4.88 gears, an Ultimate Dana 44 front axle, with front and rear e-lockers to my Jeep. I need to go back out there to see if I can get past that ledge, I've always had to winch on in the past. Getting stuck and either getting a tug or recovering yourself is part of the fun of off roading. In general, it's quicker / easier to get a tug on a group trail ride vs winching. Guys that have very little off road experience think that getting stuck is some major deal. If you actually go off road, no one gives a shit about it. It's part of the fun and is why we carry all that recovery gear. I got stuck as recently as 3-4 weeks ago. I knew there was a 99% chance I would get stuck but went for it anyway. You can see Wesley pulling out a winch line behind me.  4 other vehicles tried this same mud run and failed. The only vehicle to make it was a Gladiator on 40" tires. He used 4wd high to get a little more wheel spin up that last bank. Did I learn my lesson to stay out of that mud hole? Hell no. I want to go back and try it again. Side note, 3 years ago, my 4Runner with full skid plates would slide right up that embankment. The diffs on my Jeep dig into it and it has gotten a lot worse since then.  Mark Twain Mafia - mud run |
