Neighbors shooting range drama (Page 2 of 3)
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG Yup. That would be unacceptable anywhere. And I'm positive it looks much better from his perspective but, nope. It would probably be fine if they were shooting from half that distance. |
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Originally Posted By D_Man: Best I can figure based on the OP. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/157876/2q456jqn451q2nj-3832270.jpg  Well done |
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Originally Posted By Deadtired: Incorrect. Build the same shitty berm on your side. Still shoot bigger guns. I guess you could just hang your target in front of his berm. Then you would have one of those two way ranges im always hearing about. |
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Originally Posted By bud7h7: Yup. That would be unacceptable anywhere. And I'm positive it looks much better from his perspective but, nope. It would probably be fine if they were shooting from half that distance. Id be happy as a clam if he extended the sides and shot from inside or near the inside of the u shape. I just can't imagine walking out to shoot and being able to see people, animals and other people's property off to the side of my backstop and thinking "this is ok, and I'm in the right." |
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5 acres surrounded by neighbors is pretty tight to be running a shooting range. Are you and your shooting neighbor on speaking terms? Can't you just talk to him? Or is he volatile and unreasonable? I'm also on 5 acres and have a shooting range, but I'm totally surrounded by federally owned forest. My nearest neighbor is 1.5 miles south of me, with no one for hundreds of miles on the other three sides. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG Nah, thats subpar. The dirt at and near the top is just for show and waaaay too low |
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Originally Posted By GhillieGoatA2: Plant corn. Also, neighbor's username?  I honestly thought for a second it was me I let the neighbor use my range 2 weeks ago and had to go have a talk with him afterwards because he didnt follow any of the few rules I had talked to him about... smoked my steel plates from 15 yards away with an AR while nobody was wearing eyepro... and was further back than the sideberm that is currently functioning as a soundblock for the neighbors horses... But my berm is slightly taller than 6', and will continue to get taller. Attached File My entire range is still a work in progress and there will be a few more feet cut out and the side berms will go back 25 yards. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: Id be happy as a clam if he extended the sides and shot from inside or near the inside of the u shape. I just can't imagine walking out to shoot and being able to see people, animals and other people's property off to the side of my backstop and thinking "this is ok, and I'm in the right." Yea it seems really dumb op. I would never do something like that to a neighbor seriously inconsiderate and unsafe imo. Offer to pay to move the berm 200 yards towards his house. He can stand in the corner and shoot towards his own house. |
When debate is lost slander becomes the tool of the loser.
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Originally Posted By Sub_Arctic_Son: 5 acres surrounded by neighbors is pretty tight to be running a shooting range. Are you and your shooting neighbor on speaking terms? Can't you just talk to him? Or is he volatile and unreasonable? I'm also on 5 acres and have a shooting range, but I'm totally surrounded by federally owned forest. My nearest neighbor is 1.5 miles south of me, with no one for hundreds of miles on the other three sides. I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. |
"Freedom is a messy business." - LaRue_Tactical
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Originally Posted By BMSMB: I honestly thought for a second it was me I let the neighbor use my range 2 weeks ago and had to go have a talk with him afterwards because he didnt follow any of the few rules I had talked to him about... smoked my steel plates from 15 yards away with an AR while nobody was wearing eyepro... and was further back than the sideberm that is currently functioning as a soundblock for the neighbors horses... But my berm is slightly taller than 6', and will continue to get taller. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481792/11604_jpg-3832366.JPG My entire range is still a work in progress and there will be a few more feet cut out and the side berms will go back 25 yards. Are you crazy for letting someone else use your private range, especially without you being there to monitor?  There's not enough insurance to cover you from potential personal liability. |
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Originally Posted By Avid: Are you crazy for letting someone else use your private range, especially without you being there to monitor? There's not enough insurance to cover you from potential personal liability. Originally Posted By Avid: Originally Posted By BMSMB: I honestly thought for a second it was me I let the neighbor use my range 2 weeks ago and had to go have a talk with him afterwards because he didnt follow any of the few rules I had talked to him about... smoked my steel plates from 15 yards away with an AR while nobody was wearing eyepro... and was further back than the sideberm that is currently functioning as a soundblock for the neighbors horses... But my berm is slightly taller than 6', and will continue to get taller. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/481792/11604_jpg-3832366.JPG My entire range is still a work in progress and there will be a few more feet cut out and the side berms will go back 25 yards. Are you crazy for letting someone else use your private range, especially without you being there to monitor? There's not enough insurance to cover you from potential personal liability. Next door neighbor in rural Idaho... Im too busy to babysit them, and I tend to treat adults like adults... until they show they cant be treated that way. |
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Yeahhh, that’s pretty shitty. Just dumped dirt as a ‘berm’ and called it a day. Guessing it won’t take long for that to be 2/3 the original height and rounds from asshole, unaccompanied, guests will be flying into your property. ETA: ‘muh friend has a range. Let’s take that AR with an EOTech with a 15yd zero and see what it does at distance.’ is gonna put rounds on your property. Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG Yeahhh, that’s pretty shitty. Just dumped dirt as a ‘berm’ and called it a day. Guessing it won’t take long for that to be 2/3 the original height and rounds from asshole, unaccompanied, guests will be flying into your property. ETA: ‘muh friend has a range. Let’s take that AR with an EOTech with a 15yd zero and see what it does at distance.’ is gonna put rounds on your property. Absolutely this. Neighbor is a moron if he calls that a berm. OP if you can see the muzzle, you can also see the flash. I wouldn’t be anywhere near that area when he’s shooting. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Originally Posted By DFARM: Originally Posted By Sub_Arctic_Son: 5 acres surrounded by neighbors is pretty tight to be running a shooting range. Are you and your shooting neighbor on speaking terms? Can't you just talk to him? Or is he volatile and unreasonable? I'm also on 5 acres and have a shooting range, but I'm totally surrounded by federally owned forest. My nearest neighbor is 1.5 miles south of me, with no one for hundreds of miles on the other three sides. I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. It’s not telling someone how to use their property. It’s telling them you don’t want yours used as a back stop. |
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A local range is not long here because they could not keep the rounds on the property! I remember being at some two gun matches and hearing rounds going overhead.... the berms were big and tall - when the county built a EOC and some County facilities on the property next door - some bullet holes showed up in the building and the fance gun range was done... LOL Red |
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Originally Posted By BMSMB: Next door neighbor in rural Idaho... Im too busy to babysit them, and I tend to treat adults like adults... until they show they cant be treated that way. Well, you have more faith in your fellow man then I do, praying for the best, but prepare for the worse.
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No, 6 feet is not enough height for a berm based on the following experience. I went to a range out on a ranch with a buddy of mine a few times. The first couple of times we just took shotguns to bust clays. The last time, we went to the pistol/rifle range, and it was basically a box with 6-7 foot mounds of dirt forming the walls. We started shooting, and I noticed movement at the top of the berm. Took me a second or two, but it finally clicked that the movement was little puffs of dirt from our rounds skipping over the top of the berm. Put my stuff away and noped out right then and there. Took some flack for being a bitch, but I was right in the end. A couple of months later the range got shut down due to drama from some dude almost getting the top of his head taken off by walking behind the berm while people were shooting. Moral of the story, bullets can and will go right over the top of a 6 or 7 foot berm. |
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Originally Posted By ZippZ: Recommended general backstop height is 20 feet. Depends on what you're shooting, whats behind it, distance, etc. That's what my old range used, and they had bullet catchers over the target area to catch ricochets. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG Nope, I wouldn't tolerate that situation. That isn't safe at all. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: They know that we are down range because my wife waved at them before they started shooting this morning. I suppose "low density" works too. There's 350 acres of state forest with a hill on it across the dirt road to the east of me and my neighbor who has the berm where I'll walk over to shoot when I feel like shooting a little bit. I understand wanting a range at home though. Originally Posted By DFARM: Originally Posted By BMSMB: Have you tried talking to them and voicing concerns? Could be that bringing them over to your side will help open their eyes and they'll make the berm taller. They know that we are down range because my wife waved at them before they started shooting this morning. Originally Posted By glocke12: I don't think you are overreacting. Talk to the guy and work with him on improving the safety of the range ? Also, and I don't mean to be insulting in this, 5 acres with properties as close as you describe isn't rural and there is a strong argument here for the actions of yourself and everyone around you impacting others. I am on just under 5 acres here, and 30 years ago it was barely rural with one house across the street and one next door. Now there are 3 houses across the street, and 2 on either side of me and people insist on calling it rural and it clearly is not a rural area. It is " Low Density Residential ". I suppose "low density" works too. There's 350 acres of state forest with a hill on it across the dirt road to the east of me and my neighbor who has the berm where I'll walk over to shoot when I feel like shooting a little bit. I understand wanting a range at home though. I totally get wanting a range at home also and as I type this that second lot next to my property is getting a house built on it and I am tempted to walk over and talk to the excatovar and ask him if he can use some of the soil thats being excavated and dump it/build a berm for me on the back part of my property so that I can resume shooting there with at least suppressed pistols It's a tough choice because at the end of the day I will have two houses on that side of me that are within 100 yards, and while its a wooded portion behind me, the guy that is behind me and to the left has kids and they all hunt and shoot ( unsafely at that ) on the wooded portion behind mine. I'm probably going to at least talk to the excavator though and see what he says because I am sure he would be happy to dump soil and pile it up so he doesn't have to truck it out. |
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OP, you should print off the manual that the Army or USMC uses to define a safe range, SDZ, and backstop. A real rifle will literally go through loose soil just about like air. https://files.engineering.com/files/f16b77fe-17cc-4854-ae10-064b4320b8f9/Range_Design_Criteria.pdf |
| Berms are almost always inadequate. People have no idea how bullets can fly once they contact something. |
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Originally Posted By piciphant: build a berm on your ne corner and let him shoot north over your property with the understanding that you are notified and invited every time he shoots. eta 5acre is too small. I would never shoot on five acres with neighbors. But no one is that close to me. |
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5 acres is plenty big enough for a range provided you meet your state's laws for distance to occupied dwellings(300' here). 5 acres with close neighbors requires some mitigation in order to make it work. That little 6' berm is not cutting it. Big berm and bullet trap for ricochets and we're getting close. |
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I lived on 12 acres and even that was a challenge to build a SAFE, small, range. Talk to your neighbor. Let him know that if you can see his muzzle from your property, while he is shooting, then his range containment isn’t sufficient. Beyond raising the berm, he should also consider adding bullet proof and elevation restricting baffles. Maybe offer to lend a hand in making it a safer for everybody. |
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Originally Posted By badredfish: A local range is not long here because they could not keep the rounds on the property! I remember being at some two gun matches and hearing rounds going overhead.... the berms were big and tall - when the county built a EOC and some County facilities on the property next door - some bullet holes showed up in the building and the fance gun range was done... LOL Red @badredfish Out of curiosity, were they posting the match targets at the backstop berm, or at least pretty close? Or were they doing the typical “we have a berm down there 100 yds away, so setting up a target only 25 yds away from us is probably fine” kind of thinking? Because for some reason, a lot of people can’t understand that the second scenario means that only some of their projectiles actually go into the berm, some could bounce off the ground well before the berm and leave the range, and some could straight out just sail off over the berm, depending on the angle of the shooter to the target. People are dumb when it comes to this kind of stuff… Bullet strikes on the ground far in front of the berm = bad planning on the target setup, and a likelihood that eventually some rounds leave the property… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
| Five acres and surrounded by neighbors really doesn't seem like enough land to shoot safely on without building a military grade berm. Even then, I think I'd stick to pistols and .22 type stuff. |
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Originally Posted By Avid: Well, you have more faith in your fellow man then I do, praying for the best, but prepare for the worse. Originally Posted By Avid: Originally Posted By BMSMB: Next door neighbor in rural Idaho... Im too busy to babysit them, and I tend to treat adults like adults... until they show they cant be treated that way. Well, you have more faith in your fellow man then I do, praying for the best, but prepare for the worse. He already found out his neighbor is a typical moron shooter. I would be pissed off if someone shot up my steel from close range with a rifle, time to send them an Amazon link to replacement plates. Dumbasses are everywhere…. No eyepro while doing that is absolutely stupid as well. I know folks who have gotten some nasty frag off steel, at further distances…. I have been cut up plenty from frag at various shooting ranges, but it was always minor. No way in hell I would shoot at all without eyepro, much less on steel… |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By C3H5N3O9: No, 6 feet is not enough height for a berm based on the following experience. I went to a range out on a ranch with a buddy of mine a few times. The first couple of times we just took shotguns to bust clays. The last time, we went to the pistol/rifle range, and it was basically a box with 6-7 foot mounds of dirt forming the walls. We started shooting, and I noticed movement at the top of the berm. Took me a second or two, but it finally clicked that the movement was little puffs of dirt from our rounds skipping over the top of the berm. Put my stuff away and noped out right then and there. Took some flack for being a bitch, but I was right in the end. A couple of months later the range got shut down due to drama from some dude almost getting the top of his head taken off by walking behind the berm while people were shooting. Moral of the story, bullets can and will go right over the top of a 6 or 7 foot berm. The rounds went over the short berm because they were ground skips, hit hard objects in the berm itself, the targets were placed wrong, or bullets were impacting the top of the berm where it is thinnest without enough material to stop anything. A lot of berms are pretty minimal depth (front to back as the bullet travels) at the top. But a berm made of sand or dirt should catch a bullet, if it has enough depth. The problem is always that the bullet needs to actually hit the berm to begin with, and there is a lot of ways for that not to happen. Too tall of a target, somebody shooting a regular height target while they are prone fairly close, etc. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG Now that we have seen the ms paint and a picture, op feels uneasy rightfully so. I would not be shooting from posted position without being uneasy myself as the shooter, seeing a person downrange waving back at me. I’m also on 5 acre lots, plenty of room to shoot and do some movement training. I have a 12ft backstop horseshoe shaped dung 6ft worth into the earths natural rise and no dwellings in line of that down range for a 1/2 mile I guess based on satellite pics. I can shoot 100yrds into it, my neighbor is off to the side not down range. If configured correctly 5 acres can be plenty big enough. Op This sounds like it might be some scary shit, bullets deflecting off the top of the short berm could possibly hit your house depending on where it actually sites but I’d definitely go talk to him and invite him over to see it from your side on the fence so he can see. |
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Originally Posted By opti12206: Five acres and surrounded by neighbors really doesn't seem like enough land to shoot safely on without building a military grade berm. Even then, I think I'd stick to pistols and .22 type stuff. Military ranges vary a lot, many rely on a hell of a lot of acreage down range in a fan pattern and excluding people from that area. When you have that much property to work with, you can set up a lot of targets with no berm right behind them, getting ground skips, but the bullets still stays on the property, because the property is gigantic. Almost no private ranges have that luxury unfortunately, unless someone is a land baron! My club range is on less than 10 acres. Educating the members on how things work is a never ending process so we can minimize the possibility of a round leaving the property. It does not help that a shit load of online videos show folks shooting on unsafe ranges, having their targets nowhere near the berm, and bouncing bullets who knows where….and the average person sees that stuff and figures their setup is fine…. Hell- the OP’s neighbor has done more to setup a berm than most shooters seem to do, and yet it is still unsafe as can be… Luck is not a long term strategy to keeping ranges open, whether it is a club, or one in your back yard. |
a loaded gun won’t set you free, so you say…
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Another anti gun anti range post. |
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Bullets do weird shit on occasion and I wouldn't consider that low assed pile of loose dirt "berm" to be safe. Needs to be taller, and compacted. Personally I would just talk to him about it, and probably offer to help him enlarge if he lets you use it regularly. |
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Originally Posted By peanutman: Another anti gun anti range post. Originally Posted By peanutman: Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Another anti gun anti range post. Fuck the dumb neighbor. Why would you “build” your range on the most congested part of your property? I would never be just “feet” from a property line and shoot. My range is 1/4 mile from my neighbors and I still take into consideration time of day, length, and frequency. Let alone I shoo into a hill down in a holler. My neighbor kid and his stepdad years ago where shooting his first gun. The step dad is a preacher, the kid was about 10, both clueless on guns and common sense. They were down a hill shooting up at a paper target on boards. They were using my land as a backstop basically. The bullets we’re skimming the hill and hitting a dumpster and my hay equipment. I called my wife that afternoon at lunch and she was in the garden, and said it sounded like bullets wizzing by. Sure enough next time they were shooting I sounded like jumping jacks wizzing by. Don’t let your absolute support for 2A get you shot. I am huge proponent of no zoning. Government should never tell you what to do on your property. But properties have neighbors. I’m a neighbor and you’re a neighbor. Respect goes both ways. Do what you want, just remember sounds, smoke, smells, and bullets don’t stay on your property. |
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Originally Posted By peanutman: Another anti gun anti range post. Originally Posted By peanutman: Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Another anti gun anti range post. Strange "take" on what appear to be legit concerns. |
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Originally Posted By TheAmaazingCarl: Bullets do weird shit on occasion and I wouldn't consider that low assed pile of loose dirt "berm" to be safe. Needs to be taller, and compacted. Personally I would just talk to him about it, and probably offer to help him enlarge if he lets you use it regularly. A decent berm, even on the property line, could possibly be used by both. I have a 20 yard "range" with an 8' high X 60' long berm made of topsoil that was scraped up when my driveway was cut in. It's 6'+ wide at the top and probably 12+' wide at the bottom. I've thought it to be fairly "safe" but threads like this have me a bit worried. |
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Originally Posted By diesel1: Strange "take" on what appear to be legit concerns. Originally Posted By diesel1: Originally Posted By peanutman: Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Another anti gun anti range post. Strange "take" on what appear to be legit concerns. It's not a strange take it's straight up retarded. |
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Originally Posted By DFARM: I was a bit off on the size of the berm, but I think it doesn't change the situation. I've added a red dot at approximately the spot they were shootingfromhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/78442/1000012324_jpg-3832330.JPG This doesn't look adequate. Any chance to build it up with logs then cover again? |
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My property is 23 acres and I spent a lot of time checking Google Maps and driving around to see what was on neighboring properties before I built my berm, ended up being 85 yards. I could have easily put the berm in a different location and had 100+ but all of those would have been facing too close to a neighbors house for my comfort. I agree with others that 5 acres is pretty small for a rifle range. Unfortunately most people don't think about the "What ifs.." I say talk to the neighbor, explain your concerns and offer to help him increase the berm size/quality. P.S. - MS paint horses made my day. 
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Originally Posted By peanutman: Another anti gun anti range post. Originally Posted By peanutman: Originally Posted By DFARM: I've not spoken to the man, I used to bump into his wife out on walks fairly regularly and she seemed nice. My wife spoke to him when he was out making the berm and she said he was very nice then. I'll probably wait until I see him outside to go have a conversation unless something crazy happens before then. Again, I'm not one to want to tell someone else how to use their property but I should be able to use my whole property whenever I want without having to worry about someone or something getting shot. Another anti gun anti range post. OP, your neighbor is a member. |
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