Nearly half of adults under 30 live with their parents (Page 5 of 6)
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Not surprising. The issue isnt home cost. It's "failure to launch". Decades of helicopter parenting and " I'll do ANYTHING for my kids!" have created a generation who cannot do anything. They e got "too much anxiety" to apply for a real job.. too much anxiety to complete a real college program ( STEM). Too much anxiety to leave home, find an apartment, and get on with life. And Mommy has too much worry about little Jimmy actually encountering a tough time, so Mommy wants to keep him close. The end result? Some fucking 34 year old "kid" living to home It's all an end result wrapping kids in bubble wrap, abd giving them a hug and a participation trophy for everything Yeah, I'm a grumpy old Boomer. But my kid did direct entry into a Doctoral Program 3 days before her 18th birthday. Did six years of tough Pharmacy School. Left home to move 1000 miles away for a residency program, abd landed a kick ass job at the Pinnacle of her profession. Makes VERY good money, gets six weeks a year off, travels everywhere and bought a beautiful home for half a million, all before the age of 27. Life is tough. Kids need to learn how to fall, how to get up, and how to keep going. Otherwise, get used to having the kids in the house. They'll be there for ever. |
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Originally Posted By HRoark87: Marry a rich lady and be the stay at home spouse? https://media2.giphy.com/media/d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY/200.webp?cid=8dc8958ceqjwmfgd7hb34ccgct3z7kw5hroz7q0f1qw556us&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Smart grad students graduate with a degree. Wise grad students graduate with an MD spouse. |
| Moving in with roommates versus staying with parents and saving, just prolongs how long until they are on good financial footing. I’d rather my kid stay here and save their money until they have an emergency fund and the down payment for a house. |
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Originally Posted By frozenny: Not surprising. The issue isnt home cost. It's "failure to launch". Decades of helicopter parenting and " I'll do ANYTHING for my kids!" have created a generation who cannot do anything. They e got "too much anxiety" to apply for a real job.. too much anxiety to complete a real college program ( STEM). Too much anxiety to leave home, find an apartment, and get on with life. And Mommy has too much worry about little Jimmy actually encountering a tough time, so Mommy wants to keep him close. The end result? Some fucking 34 year old "kid" living to home It's all an end result wrapping kids in bubble wrap, abd giving them a hug and a participation trophy for everything Yeah, I'm a grumpy old Boomer. But my kid did direct entry into a Doctoral Program 3 days before her 18th birthday. Did six years of tough Pharmacy School. Left home to move 1000 miles away for a residency program, abd landed a kick ass job at the Pinnacle of her profession. Makes VERY good money, gets six weeks a year off, travels everywhere and bought a beautiful home for half a million, all before the age of 27. Life is tough. Kids need to learn how to fall, how to get up, and how to keep going. Otherwise, get used to having the kids in the house. They'll be there for ever. How many people do you talk to under the age of 30? |
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Originally Posted By JaredGrey: Which is why I said that corporations shouldn't be buying starter homes, and local governments shouldn't be neglecting those neighborhoods until they fall apart. There's also the misperception that starter homes are beneath the young adults today. Everyone wants upper middle class with two new vehicles and a vacation every year right out of college. No one wants to buy a 125yo house, and renovate it piece by piece. I've seen it okay out over and over again. Or maybe my little corner of Wisconsin is just an oddity. The flip side of that is young adults with malaise who are content to work part time, smoke weed full time, and look at buttsholes on Onlyfans for $9.99 per month, on a brand new iPhone every year. It boils down to the culture has failed the youth, and now we're seeing that manifest in a multiplicity of unpleasant ways. Originally Posted By JaredGrey: Originally Posted By Glocked: Originally Posted By JaredGrey: I lived with my parents into my twenties. I did buy a starter house for my fiancee, which I fixed up and then moved into after we got married. $5k away from paying it off. Starter houses today aren't in demand by young people / new families anymore. Around me they get bought up by corporations and turned into rentals, or if they're big enough, bought up and turned into multi families which usually go to house more than a dozen Latinos (speaking from professional experience canvassing). The young people / families want something bigger than the economical 2 bedroom 1 bath starter home in an old neighborhood. They want a 250-300k house without building up to it over years. So the state homes go to Blackrock or whatever, or get demolished because corporations 2k miles away make crappy landlords and they get condemned by local government when the mid level property manager doesn't give a damn about drugs and porches rotting off or 87 police calls a month. Which is not at all to say that the housing marked isn't totally screwed...but the above is why it's screwed. Corporations (unless it's some LLC that mom and pop made for their 3 retirement passive income rentals) shouldn't be buying starter homes, much less 50 of them. Local governments should be doing more to take care of and beautify their older neighborhoods where new home buyers should be able to afford to live. And young people shouldn't expect that starting out in an HR Generalist role for XYZ startup is going to get them the glamorous apartment downtown or the 6 bedroom cookie cutter house in the suburbs. We're witnessing the culmination of a lot of bad policies, from bad education, to lack of policing, to bad parenting, to bad city planning, to bad corporate behavior. Yknow what would help? Deporting 30mil illegals (and 80mil democrats). That would free up a bunch of jobs and houses. Those starter houses get bought up by companies because the young couples can’t compete with them, not necessarily because there’s no demand for them. That really only leaves two choices, over paying to compete for a house, or buying ones that are actually being built(fancy houses loaded with more premium features). Which is why I said that corporations shouldn't be buying starter homes, and local governments shouldn't be neglecting those neighborhoods until they fall apart. There's also the misperception that starter homes are beneath the young adults today. Everyone wants upper middle class with two new vehicles and a vacation every year right out of college. No one wants to buy a 125yo house, and renovate it piece by piece. I've seen it okay out over and over again. Or maybe my little corner of Wisconsin is just an oddity. The flip side of that is young adults with malaise who are content to work part time, smoke weed full time, and look at buttsholes on Onlyfans for $9.99 per month, on a brand new iPhone every year. It boils down to the culture has failed the youth, and now we're seeing that manifest in a multiplicity of unpleasant ways. Having built a "starter" house the amount of regulations that (plus or minus, the boomer generation) put in my path to stop me was mind boggling. I did eventually do it very cheaply but it took a very very long time to identify a place where it was possible, get the permits, actually do it, and finish it and get everything legal in an affordable manner. First, around the 60s and 70s they all got the idea everywhere was a "development" and they needed to protect the character of their developments or some woke horse-shit. So they cranked up codes and zoning and inspections. Along with the inspections came the ability to clamp down on trades licensing. With this they largely regulated "guy and his truck" building houses out of existence. Then in the 80s, came every pig farmer who decided next to his desert wasteland shithole pig farm he wouldn't tolerate anything other than a mansion. Probably 3/4 of the vacant land I looked at, had covenants preventing anything smaller than a 1500sq ft house. Even land with no well, no utilities, no perc tested soil, just some dirt farmers desert wasteland "know what I got, only a rich mansions can go here to increase muh property values next door." I know this happened in the 80s because every damn time I did a title search it was almost always a mass hysteria event of boomers encumbering all the vacant land with these bizarre covenants blocking small houses, and it was always some grainy scan from an 80s era covenant document. It took me a long time to finally find a title not encumbered with some retarded 80s/90s era hysteria. After that they cranked up the wetlands conservation act, god forbid you disturb the feathered lake werbler or whatever the fuck bird they pretend to care about to preserve their property prices. And whatever other environmental fiction they could think of. End result is older people keep their house built for cheap but of course make it impossible for you to do that, so they can charge as much for their house as if it had followed all the retarded regulations -- because what else are you going to do but build more houses under the retarded rules. And of course the latest generation of voters, who despite watching prices go to infinity, bootlick the nanny state as hard as they can because they are dumb enough to think this is all for our protection despite at least the boomers knowing they were doing it to jack their property values in a less than zero-sum punitive game, refuse to do anything about it either. Finally, circa COVID, the government pinned interest rates near zero at which point those highest in the Cantillon Effect pecking order inflated the prices of everything mortgageable to infinity on OPM (ultimately, with OP being the fed) at the cost of those most exposed to the cash economy. End result is the situation for building a starter home is completely fucked. Oh yes you can pay a gazillion to some luxury contractor, but to build it yourself? Only a handful of counties near jobs exist where you can still do it. I did it post covid for next to nothing, but in the process realized it has been made all but impossible and in most cases only because I gambled bigly in places where a random asshole could have made it 5x more expensive for me and managed to win. I only narrowly managed it because at many critical stages people realized I was an owner-builder doing literally everything myself to house my family because I don't have a lot of money and they took pity on my soul. Basically the only path left is to find one of the handful of counties near jobs that never followed the permitting madness, buy some vacant land that wasn't inflated because it wasn't mortgageable, and build it yourself. You can't buy the starter houses because they were all bid to a gazillion dollars on debt and locked into 30 year mortgages at rates that no longer exist and thus command a gargantuan price to buy them out of; you can't commercially build them because the licensing/code/zoning/HOA/covenant mafia creates enough protective moat that they are no longer starter prices and you may as well built a big house instead. The similar house next to me that was built following the commercial permitting process sold for like 5x the price as mine because that's what it costs to follow all the retarded regulations or buy someone out of their 2% mortgage. |
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Saw this on my lunch break and it reminded me of this thread. When we lived there, housing in Stockholm is just like other major cities ranging from $500K - $1.5M USD. However, you drive north into the more rural areas and the housing is cheap. The issue is that anyone can buy it, not just EU citizens, so it can be competitive. And those houses often fall into the fixer-upper category.  A house in Sweden for less than $30k? #sweden |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: Hard to save for a down payment when 50% of your income is going towards rent. You're out of touch and have no idea how much more difficult it is right now than it used to be. Meanwhile I've always hoped my kids would have better opportunities than me. Wild to see parents and grandparents that don't care. |
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Originally Posted By PacNW5: Saw this on my lunch break and it reminded me of this thread. When we lived there, housing in Stockholm is just like other major cities ranging from $500K - $1.5M USD. However, you drive north into the more rural areas and the housing is cheap. The issue is that anyone can buy it, not just EU citizens, so it can be competitive. And those houses often fall into the fixer-upper category.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4i4eki3QFsIIRC Sweden has some weird rules about living in rural Sweden, due to the way their social systems are set up with guarantees it is extremely expensive to absorb a new resident in a rural area. So they have a bunch of rural houses no one is allowed to live in. I might be wrong about this, but last I checked on the cheap houses in Sweden that was the reason I got as to why. |
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I guess they just need to work harder. Hard times are here. Harder times are coming. Pretty unfortunate and disappointing that for the first time in a long time we can say that. Boomers denial of this reality is the reason why socialism is an approaching storm gaining strength with each passing year. |
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Originally Posted By luscioman: In my area the cheapest condo is about 350k. Someone out of college for a few years makeling 65k cant afford that. Renting is a thing. All my kids 31 and under figured it out and are on their own and they aren't making huge bank. Everyone thinks they are supposed to buy property just a couple years out of college. |
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Originally Posted By fxntime: They don't want room mates anymore, hence the bitching. What they want is a 4000sq foot house right out of school for $50K while they command a salary of $250K a year. Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: Isn't this why you had roommates? They don't want room mates anymore, hence the bitching. What they want is a 4000sq foot house right out of school for $50K while they command a salary of $250K a year. |
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Originally Posted By Coati: IIRC Sweden has some weird rules about living in rural Sweden, due to the way their social systems are set up with guarantees it is extremely expensive to absorb a new resident in a rural area. So they have a bunch of rural houses no one is allowed to live in. I might be wrong about this, but last I checked on the cheap houses in Sweden that was the reason I got as to why. I think this is close. Demographics plays a large part. Much like the US, young people often move away from rural areas because there are few good jobs and few opportunities to meet a potential partner. So, something like 80% of the population lives in cities like Stockholm, Malmo and Gothenburg. The people that remain in rural areas are largely older so when they pass, they have fewer local buyers. Since local municipalities are heavily responsible for funding and delivering welfare services, that shrinking tax base doesn't help fund the older population that typically requires expensive care. |
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Originally Posted By fdawg: No, they want a 185k house, 60k a year job with decent medical benefits, and a 250 mo car payment. WTF. Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: Isn't this why you had roommates? They don't want room mates anymore, hence the bitching. What they want is a 4000sq foot house right out of school for $50K while they command a salary of $250K a year. I would also very much like to live in the 90's again, but that just ain't happening. |
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Originally Posted By PacNW5: I think this is close. Demographics plays a large part. Much like the US, young people often move away from rural areas because there are few good jobs and few opportunities to meet a potential partner. So, something like 80% of the population lives in cities like Stockholm, Malmo and Gothenburg. The people that remain in rural areas are largely older so when they pass, they have fewer local buyers. Since local municipalities are heavily responsible for funding and delivering welfare services, that shrinking tax base doesn't help fund the older population that typically requires expensive care. Originally Posted By PacNW5: Originally Posted By Coati: IIRC Sweden has some weird rules about living in rural Sweden, due to the way their social systems are set up with guarantees it is extremely expensive to absorb a new resident in a rural area. So they have a bunch of rural houses no one is allowed to live in. I might be wrong about this, but last I checked on the cheap houses in Sweden that was the reason I got as to why. I think this is close. Demographics plays a large part. Much like the US, young people often move away from rural areas because there are few good jobs and few opportunities to meet a potential partner. So, something like 80% of the population lives in cities like Stockholm, Malmo and Gothenburg. The people that remain in rural areas are largely older so when they pass, they have fewer local buyers. Since local municipalities are heavily responsible for funding and delivering welfare services, that shrinking tax base doesn't help fund the older population that typically requires expensive care. Also, FWIW, if you don't have kids you can get away with about any living situation. Child welfare agencies and public schools are the strongest system for bringing the hammer down on "substandard living conditions" and forcing people in compliance with various housing regulations. A young influencer may be able to get away with pretending to vacation in rural Sweden in a house not permitted as a residence indefinitely but as soon as the kid pops out and the state is on the hook for public schooling etc then suddenly the government will find a way to force her into a legal residence. |
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Originally Posted By frozenny: Not surprising. The issue isnt home cost. It's "failure to launch". Decades of helicopter parenting and " I'll do ANYTHING for my kids!" have created a generation who cannot do anything. They e got "too much anxiety" to apply for a real job.. too much anxiety to complete a real college program ( STEM). Too much anxiety to leave home, find an apartment, and get on with life. And Mommy has too much worry about little Jimmy actually encountering a tough time, so Mommy wants to keep him close. The end result? Some fucking 34 year old "kid" living to home It's all an end result wrapping kids in bubble wrap, abd giving them a hug and a participation trophy for everything Yeah, I'm a grumpy old Boomer. But my kid did direct entry into a Doctoral Program 3 days before her 18th birthday. Did six years of tough Pharmacy School. Left home to move 1000 miles away for a residency program, abd landed a kick ass job at the Pinnacle of her profession. Makes VERY good money, gets six weeks a year off, travels everywhere and bought a beautiful home for half a million, all before the age of 27. Life is tough. Kids need to learn how to fall, how to get up, and how to keep going. Otherwise, get used to having the kids in the house. They'll be there for ever. |
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Originally Posted By glklvr: Obviously you haven't read the thread on nobody wanting anything to do with their parents. Originally Posted By glklvr: Originally Posted By jim02: Maybe this will help with generational care coming back to the family. It would allow for a higher standard of living for all involved. Obviously you haven't read the thread on nobody wanting anything to do with their parents. Are these the same parents that kicked them out at 18 and told them to figure it out? 
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Originally Posted By PeoplesRepublicOfIL: There will be fallout from this that can’t be seen today. This ties into my belief that when the time comes for social security to be means tested, this generation will willingly outvote you and not care at all you were cheated out of your social security. They have no stake in the current system and historically this has led to bad things. To be fair, many don't have a stake in anything. Did someone say steak? Picture Mao's cultural revolution but very well fed. I am mostly afraid of being eaten. Can't afford housing but most could stand to skip a meal or two.
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Only going to get worse. I was lucky to move out for the second time at 25 after I had moved back from college. A lot of places in this country have no opportunity either. I’m lucky in a sense that I made it to 100K a year without ever leaving where I grew up, but now I have another problem. I want to leave. I’ve been applying to jobs in NC/SC/GA for a few months now and haven’t got a single call. Years of experience in heavy industry, retail management, and sales plus an MBA. I’ve heard that out of state resumes get trashed at most companies these days. It’s not easy for people out there. |
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Originally Posted By fdawg: No, they want a 185k house, 60k a year job with decent medical benefits, and a 250 mo car payment. WTF. Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: Isn't this why you had roommates? They don't want room mates anymore, hence the bitching. What they want is a 4000sq foot house right out of school for $50K while they command a salary of $250K a year. |
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Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Older starter homes in my neighborhood are under 200k. I paid 110k, 8 years ago. Had newer 5 year old hvac, rewired and new elec box, newer windows, newer roof, original hardwood floors redone. Just needed some cosmetic stuff done. Original kitchen, but functional. Edit: not in a bad neighborhood. Typical suburb. Caveat 2/1 and 900 sq feet. Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Originally Posted By CashOnlyLargeBills: Location has a lot to do with this. You can get a decent 2br/1ba home in a lot of areas under $200k. But if you want to be in a non-crime riddled neighborhood or 65 miles from a major metropolitan area, you will not find those homes. Older starter homes in my neighborhood are under 200k. I paid 110k, 8 years ago. Had newer 5 year old hvac, rewired and new elec box, newer windows, newer roof, original hardwood floors redone. Just needed some cosmetic stuff done. Original kitchen, but functional. Edit: not in a bad neighborhood. Typical suburb. Caveat 2/1 and 900 sq feet. What’s the highest paying job within 75 miles of it? Dollar General assistant manager? |
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Originally Posted By MtnMusic: Where are you seeing that? I just did a quick Zillow search in Scottsdale for 3/2 and under $1500. There are no such units in Scottsdale, a few in Tempe (which appear to be some sort of subsidized housing), and some in Glendale. Originally Posted By MtnMusic: Originally Posted By LV1976: I'll be the first to say that housing, as in buying a house is off the charts expensive. However, I just checked and you can still rent a 3/2 in Scottsdale, AZ (which will be the most desirable area to live in the Phoenix metro area) for under $1500 a month, and not a run-down place either. Where are you seeing that? I just did a quick Zillow search in Scottsdale for 3/2 and under $1500. There are no such units in Scottsdale, a few in Tempe (which appear to be some sort of subsidized housing), and some in Glendale. And what’s a Scottsdale A/C bill look like? $400/m? |
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Lots of people are out of touch in this thread. Cheap housing no longer exists. Rent in my location out in BFE is $1200 and up. "Starter" homes are $150k or more. Old mobile homes on an acre or two bring the same. Houses that need a lot of work, and I mean a lot, are $100k. I'd hate to be a young person starting out right now. Building codes, material costs, loan regulations, intereat, and insurance costs make for some hard hurdles that weren't nearly as bad even 10 years ago. |
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Originally Posted By EXCATM76: Moving in with roommates versus staying with parents and saving, just prolongs how long until they are on good financial footing. I’d rather my kid stay here and save their money until they have an emergency fund and the down payment for a house. The big question is... Are they actually saving that money? My opinion they should be paying the parents rent... The parents might choose to save that money and return it at the future move out. Key is are they responsible. |
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Originally Posted By Glockman4: What's the highest paying job within 75 miles of it? Dollar General assistant manager? Originally Posted By Glockman4: Originally Posted By Caeser2001: Originally Posted By CashOnlyLargeBills: Location has a lot to do with this. You can get a decent 2br/1ba home in a lot of areas under $200k. But if you want to be in a non-crime riddled neighborhood or 65 miles from a major metropolitan area, you will not find those homes. Older starter homes in my neighborhood are under 200k. I paid 110k, 8 years ago. Had newer 5 year old hvac, rewired and new elec box, newer windows, newer roof, original hardwood floors redone. Just needed some cosmetic stuff done. Original kitchen, but functional. Edit: not in a bad neighborhood. Typical suburb. Caveat 2/1 and 900 sq feet. What's the highest paying job within 75 miles of it? Dollar General assistant manager? I could tell you where I live, what major employers are within 20 minutes of everywhere, and show you dozens of listings for starter and modest homes less than 185k, and you'd still sneer. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: I guess they just need to work harder. Hard times are here. Harder times are coming. Pretty unfortunate and disappointing that for the first time in a long time we can say that. Boomers denial of this reality is the reason why socialism is an approaching storm gaining strength with each passing year. Originally Posted By WhyNotDev8: I guess they just need to work harder. Hard times are here. Harder times are coming. Pretty unfortunate and disappointing that for the first time in a long time we can say that. Boomers denial of this reality is the reason why socialism is an approaching storm gaining strength with each passing year. Yep, there it is. Plus if I can't live within 20 minutes of a multinational headquarters, a trendy bike and pedestrian friendly metro area, diverse cuisine, theatres, arts, parks, and perhaps a nice beach, and a few dozen miles of varied bike paths, it's total garbage. We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. |
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Originally Posted By LV1976: I would also very much like to live in the 90's again, but that just ain't happening. Originally Posted By LV1976: Originally Posted By fdawg: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By wagonwheel1: Isn't this why you had roommates? They don't want room mates anymore, hence the bitching. What they want is a 4000sq foot house right out of school for $50K while they command a salary of $250K a year. I would also very much like to live in the 90's again, but that just ain't happening. That's basically what I did when I bought my house in 2017. One 1250sq ft starter home for a little over 185k. Bought on VA loan for the locked in rate (non-VA rates were lower but I didn't need to put anything down) Not sure what I was actually making but 60k probably isn't far off. The BCBS plan from my work had a $280 premium but was considered good with is relatively high deductibles. I generally buy used vehicles that only net about 100-150 a month in payments (Loan of only 5-10k) That really sucked at the time. The problem for me centers around the expectations we put on people. It was obvious I was barely making it then and compared to others it still looks like I am barely making it. It would be a lot easier to develop a path that looks and feels more sustainable if we normalized a similar life plan on a societal level. But even the people who claim to be responsible here can't help themselves to not flex what they have. |
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Originally Posted By hooligan223: Lots of people are out of touch in this thread. Cheap housing no longer exists. Rent in my location out in BFE is $1200 and up. "Starter" homes are $150k or more. Old mobile homes on an acre or two bring the same. Houses that need a lot of work, and I mean a lot, are $100k. I'd hate to be a young person starting out right now. Building codes, material costs, loan regulations, insurance, make for some hard hurdles that weren't nearly as bad even 10 years ago. I’m in the NW Chicago burbs. I rent a small 1BR condo. Rent is $1100 but only as I’ve been here since 2008. Same unit owner all that time. Rent started at $800. Other condos in the complex are going for $1600 min. |
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: GD has the weirdest blinders on to the fact that the housing market is complete trash, and has been for some time, with no indication that it's going to let up. Not surprising. GD is disproportionately over 50 with paid-off mortgages. |
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Originally Posted By hooligan223: Lots of people are out of touch in this thread. Cheap housing no longer exists. Rent in my location out in BFE is $1200 and up. "Starter" homes are $150k or more. Old mobile homes on an acre or two bring the same. Houses that need a lot of work, and I mean a lot, are $100k. I'd hate to be a young person starting out right now. Building codes, material costs, loan regulations, insurance, make some hard hurdles that weren't nearly as bad even 10 years ago. I bought my house in 2019. It was 244k. Refinance in 2020 at 2.5% Same house was valued at 350k 3 years later. Rates doubled. Its a simple as that. Its only gotten worse since then. |
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Originally Posted By hooligan223: Lots of people are out of touch in this thread. Cheap housing no longer exists. Rent in my location out in BFE is $1200 and up. "Starter" homes are $150k or more. Old mobile homes on an acre or two bring the same. Houses that need a lot of work, and I mean a lot, are $100k. I'd hate to be a young person starting out right now. Building codes, material costs, loan regulations, insurance, make for some hard hurdles that weren't nearly as bad even 10 years ago. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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This reminds me of my out of touch, stubborn, asshole 96 year old grandpa was making fun of how his 70 year old RN neice must be a loser in financial trouble because she moved in with her 90 year old parents suffering from various geriatric ailments. No, you crotchity malignant retard, she's providing free nursing, lol. |
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Originally Posted By Coati: Also, FWIW, if you don't have kids you can get away with about any living situation. Child welfare agencies and public schools are the strongest system for bringing the hammer down on "substandard living conditions" and forcing people in compliance with various housing regulations. A young influencer may be able to get away with pretending to vacation in rural Sweden in a house not permitted as a residence indefinitely but as soon as the kid pops out and the state is on the hook for public schooling etc then suddenly the government will find a way to force her into a legal residence. Well, they definitely want young, single people buying homes and registering them. That added tax base is good for local rural municipalities without the added cost of providing childcare and other family-based services for them. |
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Originally Posted By frozenny: Not surprising. The issue isnt home cost. It's "failure to launch". Decades of helicopter parenting and " I'll do ANYTHING for my kids!" have created a generation who cannot do anything. They e got "too much anxiety" to apply for a real job.. too much anxiety to complete a real college program ( STEM). Too much anxiety to leave home, find an apartment, and get on with life. And Mommy has too much worry about little Jimmy actually encountering a tough time, so Mommy wants to keep him close. The end result? Some fucking 34 year old "kid" living to home It's all an end result wrapping kids in bubble wrap, abd giving them a hug and a participation trophy for everything Yeah, I'm a grumpy old Boomer. But my kid did direct entry into a Doctoral Program 3 days before her 18th birthday. Did six years of tough Pharmacy School. Left home to move 1000 miles away for a residency program, abd landed a kick ass job at the Pinnacle of her profession. Makes VERY good money, gets six weeks a year off, travels everywhere and bought a beautiful home for half a million, all before the age of 27. Life is tough. Kids need to learn how to fall, how to get up, and how to keep going. Otherwise, get used to having the kids in the house. They'll be there for ever. The failure to launch and helicopter parenting is the boomers' fault. Boomers ushered in the whole "Blank Slate" theory along with feminism and the sexual revolution and then got mad at society for living out this ideology. |
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Originally Posted By djkest: We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. Originally Posted By djkest: Plus if I can't live within 20 minutes of a multinational headquarters, a trendy bike and pedestrian friendly metro area, diverse cuisine, theatres, arts, parks, and perhaps a nice beach, and a few dozen miles of varied bike paths, it's total garbage. We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By MtnMusic: Where are you seeing that? I just did a quick Zillow search in Scottsdale for 3/2 and under $1500. There are no such units in Scottsdale, a few in Tempe (which appear to be some sort of subsidized housing), and some in Glendale. |
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Originally Posted By Torf: I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By djkest: Plus if I can't live within 20 minutes of a multinational headquarters, a trendy bike and pedestrian friendly metro area, diverse cuisine, theatres, arts, parks, and perhaps a nice beach, and a few dozen miles of varied bike paths, it's total garbage. We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. An actual conversation requires nuance, and usually more personal details than people want to give out. Theres places with more affordable housing. But most can't afford student loans, plus moving, plus rent for an entry level job without help. A poster might say their kid did just that and is amazing, but leave out they paid for college, or for a place to live while they got on their feet. While at the same time bitching how kids living at home are stuck on the tit. Most can't set aside ego to recognize help they've gotten, or they've given. Its a shame. |
When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.
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Originally Posted By Torf: You are giving out numbers that aren't very unreasonable for "affordable" housing. Societal gatekeepers have ruined new building small starter homes, but affordable housing exists if one is to be willing to find it and put in some work. Expecting anything "move in ready" and "fashionable" to be less than $150k is a pipe dream. I'm not saying it's not possible but it's certainly more difficult than it used to be. Not everyone has the skills to move into a fixer upper and DIY which means that option is not available for a good portion of folks. Using contractors substantially increases the costs and can make it that much further out of reach. The starting salary for a college grad in the same area I gave pricing examples for is $31-45k. Trying to buy a home on that salary while likely paying on student loans and maybe a small car loan wouldn't be a budget I'd like to try to live on for long. |
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On one hand, housing is stupidly expensive. $2k/month 2 BR apartments, $3k/month for a basic house 50 minutes from halfway decent jobs. I don't see how young adults can make it work. Then I remember back in 95 paying $250 a month for rent - with 12 housemates in a dilapidated old institutional home. I had a padlock on my bedroom door in a semi-finished daylight basement. I don't recall being resentful that I couldn't afford my own nice little house back in those days - just grateful that I found a room I could afford that had a nice view and housemates that didn't stab me. And then I see kids ordering a limo ride for a $15 burrito and thinking it's normal. Shit, I did laundry in the bathtub during grad school to save my quarters for instant ramen and chicken breasts. Young adults these days have it tough, but they lack the mindset on how to make it all work. |
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Originally Posted By Torf: I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. Hell, I do pretty well for myself now and even I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to live where I want when I retire which is nowhere fancy, and certainly not a place that is considered HCOL but here we are. That'll be a real bummer after having not lived where I want for the vast majority of my adult life. |
Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer
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Originally Posted By 0311SKI: An actual conversation requires nuance, and usually more personal details than people want to give out. Theres places with more affordable housing. But most can't afford student loans, plus moving, plus rent for an entry level job without help. A poster might say their kid did just that and is amazing, but leave out they paid for college, or for a place to live while they got on their feet. While at the same time bitching how kids living at home are stuck on the tit. Most can't set aside ego to recognize help they've gotten, or they've given. Its a shame. Originally Posted By 0311SKI: Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By djkest: Plus if I can't live within 20 minutes of a multinational headquarters, a trendy bike and pedestrian friendly metro area, diverse cuisine, theatres, arts, parks, and perhaps a nice beach, and a few dozen miles of varied bike paths, it's total garbage. We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. An actual conversation requires nuance, and usually more personal details than people want to give out. Theres places with more affordable housing. But most can't afford student loans, plus moving, plus rent for an entry level job without help. A poster might say their kid did just that and is amazing, but leave out they paid for college, or for a place to live while they got on their feet. While at the same time bitching how kids living at home are stuck on the tit. Most can't set aside ego to recognize help they've gotten, or they've given. Its a shame. My wife and I live simply. We do take vacations though, and we love to take our kids with us if they can go. There is nothing like building memories with your family. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Allow me to rescue this thread. It's about 30-year olds living at home (LAH), yes? Some of them are LAH to save up enough to buy a home. Legit, solid choice. Some of them might LAH to save enough for an apt. deposit. OK, legit, for a short time. And some LAH because it's just "easier and cheaper" and they would rather spend their $ on something else. Welp, that's a them problem, not a we problem. Another thing. You see all those apartments out there? The ones where people are currently living in them? What are THEY doing to live there? They must be paying the rent BECAUSE THE APT. IS OCCUPIED. Maybe they have roommates to make it more affordable? If so, good choice. The charts about the rising cost of rent etc. are IRRELEVANT. Somebody is currently renting those apts. at whatever the cost is. The apts. are occupied. Somebody is making the monthly rent payments on those units. The question is, do you want to pay the rent all by yourself, or would you rather pay 1/2, or 1/3, with the understanding that the downside is having a roommate? That's all that matters here. If "muh privacy" is more important than having a roommate, you're gonna pay for the privilege. That's the way it's always been. |
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Originally Posted By hooligan223: I'm not saying it's not possible but it's certainly more difficult than it used to be. Not everyone has the skills to move into a fixer upper and DIY which means that option is not available for a good portion of folks. Using contractors substantially increases the costs and can make it that much further out of reach. The starting salary for a college grad in the same area I gave pricing examples for is $31-45k. Trying to buy a home on that salary while likely paying on student loans and maybe a small car loan wouldn't be a budget I'd like to try to live on for long. Originally Posted By hooligan223: Originally Posted By Torf: You are giving out numbers that aren't very unreasonable for "affordable" housing. Societal gatekeepers have ruined new building small starter homes, but affordable housing exists if one is to be willing to find it and put in some work. Expecting anything "move in ready" and "fashionable" to be less than $150k is a pipe dream. I'm not saying it's not possible but it's certainly more difficult than it used to be. Not everyone has the skills to move into a fixer upper and DIY which means that option is not available for a good portion of folks. Using contractors substantially increases the costs and can make it that much further out of reach. The starting salary for a college grad in the same area I gave pricing examples for is $31-45k. Trying to buy a home on that salary while likely paying on student loans and maybe a small car loan wouldn't be a budget I'd like to try to live on for long. A few years later, we did finally buy a house on a 30-year mortgage. Due to my career and our lifestyle at the time, I was able to refinance to a 15 several years after that. That's all ancient history now, I know. On the topic of "home improvement", it has never been easier to learn new skills, or cheaper to try new things. There is almost nothing I can't teach myself simply by spending a bit of time on YouTube. But it has to be longer, more involved stuff. Not shorts. It is a failure of parenting to not teach kids some of these skills, at least in small ways. When I was young my dad showed me how to handle tools and do simple building and my mom showed me how to fix things around the house, as well as painting, staining, cleaning, sewing, cooking, etc. I had all the foundation I needed to learn some electrical work, plumbing, framing, trimming, drywalling, tiling, small engine repair, auto maintenance, computer work, gadget repair, household appliance repair, etc. Learning itself is a skill that should be taught and cultivated. |
"This is a free country, and I have the permits, background checks, licenses, and tax receipts to prove it." --Zippster (4/10/13)
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Originally Posted By Torf: We are either paying for our kids college expenses, or they went military. 6 kids here. Two oldest boys went Army and Air Force respectively. Two middle daughters are in college that we are paying for. I have a senior in High School, and he's unsure at this point, but we have money saved for this. The youngest is starting 7th grade, so we have time to plan and will use whatever 529 plan money is left for her. Some of the kids are very responsible. Some, like I mentioned earlier leave some to be desired. My wife and I live simply. We do take vacations though, and we love to take our kids with us if they can go. There is nothing like building memories with your family. Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By 0311SKI: Originally Posted By Torf: Originally Posted By djkest: Plus if I can't live within 20 minutes of a multinational headquarters, a trendy bike and pedestrian friendly metro area, diverse cuisine, theatres, arts, parks, and perhaps a nice beach, and a few dozen miles of varied bike paths, it's total garbage. We have these things, but it isn't cheap to live here. But you act like quality of life isn't a realistic or important consideration. I have access to hundreds of miles of paved trails, hiking, arts, concerts, etc. But it comes at a price. If I lived in a rural southern town, there would be no hiking, no trails. Heck, there might not even be a safe place to go for a 5-mile jog without dodging cars on a narrow country road. It's OK to want a nice place to live. Sure, SF and NYC have always been expensive. But when EVERY small and medium-sized metro area is unaffordable, you have to recognize that we have a systemic problem. I'm not acting like it isn't important or realistic. I'm stating that isn't realistic for a significant subset of young adults who don't have enough money to afford that lifestyle. Everyone has to make choices with their financial resources. There are plenty of places all over the country that meet some of the items we have both mentioned, but all? That's a tall order. I realize that Arf isn't monolithic at all, but in almost every thread about this topic the alternatives choices are routinely derided. My wife and I live outside a medium sized city. It takes me 22 minutes to get to work, there are several major employers in the area, housing prices are low. There is plenty to do, and my wife actually runs 20 miles a week, without dodging cars. It's a nice place, but it's not perfect. It's a tradeoff that we make because of our careers, our finances, and our priorities. Also, I just turned 50 and it took me awhile to get here. An actual conversation requires nuance, and usually more personal details than people want to give out. Theres places with more affordable housing. But most can't afford student loans, plus moving, plus rent for an entry level job without help. A poster might say their kid did just that and is amazing, but leave out they paid for college, or for a place to live while they got on their feet. While at the same time bitching how kids living at home are stuck on the tit. Most can't set aside ego to recognize help they've gotten, or they've given. Its a shame. My wife and I live simply. We do take vacations though, and we love to take our kids with us if they can go. There is nothing like building memories with your family. Awesome  Sounds like you've given them a great starting point that'll open up all sorts of options down the road. |
When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.
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Fresh out of college in 2012 I rented a 3 bed 2 bath house for $1400/mo, with a housemate. After utilities, it averaged $800/mo. Great value! Additional housemates increased the base rent by $500 per person... In 2020 when I moved, the base rent was $2000/mo, and I had FIVE housemates. After utilities (tripled consumption), it averaged ...$750/mo. So, in just 8 years the same money (minus a tank of gas) only got me 1/3 as much house. Today, that house rents for $2500/mo. |