Posted: 2/23/2025 8:17:01 AM EDT
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So, I order a rifle from Brownells, a Howa 1500 24” barreled 308. I find a new gun store I've not used before but close to home. I go in and check them out and they have nice stuff, lots of police gear, and uniforms of local cops getting altered. I notice they have a computer kiosk they’re working on getting set up to NFA transfers on and they seem super knowledgeable. I figured I’ll give them a shot. Order the rifle and it arrives on a Tuesday. I fill out the background sheet and I get delayed. I always get delayed for everything regardless…I have a super common name but I’m legally allowed to own and carry firearms. As I’m getting ready to leave I ask what time I can come back Saturday to pick up the rifle. The owner says he doesn’t adhere to the Brady guidelines and went on this long ass tiraid about how he doesn’t let anything go that’s not cleared. I then asked for clarification and he said he won’t release a rifle until he gets a return from the NICS check regardless of how long he has to wait. Now I’m furious and leave because I don’t want to say too much and risk him just “deciding” not to give me the rifle. What recourse do I have? I’m at a loss for words, I have never heard of an FFL “deciding” to ignore federal guidelines and doing whatever they want. |
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In Texas, we don't have to do the NICS check if we present a valid CHL. Doesn't Indiana do this also? Maybe go that route in the future, and change FFL. Have the gun sent back, then sent to a different FFL who is not an ass? |
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Originally Posted By smitters: I have never heard of an FFL “deciding” to ignore federal guidelines and doing whatever they want. There is one of those in southern NH. Store policy is only release on a proceed. Their business, their rules. They're dickbags in other ways, so I don't shop there on principle. |
The only thing that keeps the peace are the voices in my head.
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No Indiana doesn’t do the license to carry thing like Texas, and I have definitely learned not to use this guy ever again. I’m trying to bide my time in hopes he releases it to me because brownells doesn’t do returns on rifles🤦🏼♂️ I had a thought about transferring it to another FFL nearby but I’m not sure I can while it’s already “in process”… does anyone know that answer? |
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Originally Posted By smitters: No Indiana doesn’t do the license to carry thing like Texas, and I have definitely learned not to use this guy ever again. I’m trying to bide my time in hopes he releases it to me because brownells doesn’t do returns on rifles🤦🏼♂️ I had a thought about transferring it to another FFL nearby but I’m not sure I can while it’s already “in process”… does anyone know that answer? Most of the big box stores don't transfer w/o a proceed from NICS. Find a different FFL, go to cop shop, pay them to transfer to other FFL. Might wait a few days, most NICS checks eventually get a proceed response. Not all do, that's what holds some folks up on cans. Not transferring after the Brady date is a big FU to Hispanic customers. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Apply for a UPIN if you a have a common name and things get delayed often. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-keep-getting-wrongfully-denied-firearms-license-there-way-avoid-happening |
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Originally Posted By H2K: Apply for a UPIN if you a have a common name and things get delayed often. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-keep-getting-wrongfully-denied-firearms-license-there-way-avoid-happening This Is The Way. |
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It sucks but I don't think you should be mad when you didn't ask their policy before you did the transfer knowing you would be delayed. There are lots of stores that have that policy unfortunately. If you've been through this before do you know how long it will take to clear? It's been a long time since I've sold guns but most of my delays were cleared up within a week. Occasionally we would get one that would linger. My advice is to just wait it out and use a store you know will release when they can next time. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: My advice is to just wait it out and use a store you know will release when they can next time. Yep. Also, write a google review. It doesn't have to be a negative review. Just a mediocre one explaining their policies and how it may affect someone. Be brief and factual. |
The only thing that keeps the peace are the voices in my head.
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I was real upset in the beginning, I haven’t tried to buy a gun in over a year because I always get delayed. So I knew going in I would be delayed but in my 20 plus years of buying guns I never thought to imagine an FFL would have that crazy policy. He didn’t volunteer it until after we’d submitted it too. So maybe we’re both at fault. Either way I’ll go back to my normal FFL that hasn’t ever been bad to me. I just wanted to see if maybe this place was better…lesson learned lol. I honestly don’t know how long they take to clear, I’ve always just been told to come back after the 5 days. I did start the UPIN process and just need to get my finger prints and I hope that will help. |
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Originally Posted By smitters: ......As I’m getting ready to leave I ask what time I can come back Saturday to pick up the rifle. The owner says he doesn’t adhere to the Brady guidelines and went on this long ass tiraid about how he doesn’t let anything go that’s not cleared. I then asked for clarification and he said he won’t release a rifle until he gets a return from the NICS check regardless of how long he has to wait. Do you know "the Brady guidelines"? I do.  And so do the other FFL's in this thread.Nothing in the Brady law requires an FFL to transfer a firearm for any reason. Even if the buyer receives a proceed response, the dealer is not required to complete the transfer. He may have become suspicious of your wee beady eyes or gang tattoos as he ran your NICS check.  But you said the dealer doesn't adhere by the Brady guidelines.........guess what FBI NICS will tell the dealer when they give a delayed status on your background check? "The Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of this firearm on xx/xx/xxxx". That date, called the Brady date, is three business days, beginning the next business day, and does not include weekends, holidays or days state or federal offices are not open. Transferring the firearm on or after the Brady date is entirely up to the dealer, nothing in federal law requires him to transfer to the buyer. That is why NICS is careful to say "The Brady Law does not prohibit....". THAT is the Brady "guidelines". Now I’m furious and leave because I don’t want to say too much and risk him just “deciding” not to give me the rifle. Well, he can't just keep it. Failing the NICS check doesn't mean the firearm becomes the property of the dealer. Prior to having a firearm shipped to a dealer for transfer, a buyer should always know what his transfer policies are. Assuming that every dealer transfers after the Brady date is as bad as assuming every dealer charges the same transfer fee. What recourse do I have? You wait until your background check status changes to a "proceed". or Have him transfer to another dealer. I’m at a loss for words, I have never heard of an FFL “deciding” to ignore federal guidelines and doing whatever they want. He isn't ignoring federal guidelines, he's abiding by them. You having "never heard of" something doesn't mean it doesn't happen. This is a somewhat regular topic on gun forums, so its surprising you've never heard of it happening. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By _DR: In Texas, we don't have to do the NICS check if we present a valid CHL. Doesn't Indiana do this also? Originally Posted By _DR: In Texas, we don't have to do the NICS check if we present a valid CHL. Doesn't Indiana do this also? Indiana does not have a state firearm permit that serves as an exemption to the NICS check. Have the gun sent back, then sent to a different FFL who is not an ass? His business, his rules. Having a policy to only transfer on a "proceed" doesn't make the dealer an ass. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By smitters: I had a thought about transferring it to another FFL nearby but I’m not sure I can while it’s already “in process”… does anyone know that answer? Sure you can. The only thing in process is your background check. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Huh? Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Not transferring after the Brady date is a big FU to Hispanic customers. Huh? Hispanics in general use a smaller pool of names as a cultural custom. This gives the FBI fits. In Anglo & Black culture, a relatively small percentage of people are named John Smith. In Hispanic culture, a relatively large percentage are named Jose Gonzalez. This results in Hispanics being delayed more often, and some of them never getting a "Proceed". NICS already discriminates against Hispanics in this manner, giving an instant proceed less often to Hispanics than whites. Hispanics go to "Processing" and "Delay" more often than Anglos do. Not transferring after the Brady date without a "Proceed" adds to the effective denial of rights that NICS implements against the Hispanic community. This last weekend I got 3 Delays - 2 were against Hispanics w/ sterotypical names from the Hispanic name pool. I may never get a Proceed on them. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
| Back when I was an FFL, I never once got a "DENIED". I had one customer who always got delayed but would get a PROCEED anywhere from a few minutes after to a day after but he eventually would get the PROCEED. Whenever a customer got delayed, I would check each day for their proceed. If they didn't get one yet, by hour 72 I would text them and let them know they could come pick up their firearm. |
All politicians are evil, but some politicians are more evil than others.
Who is John Galt?
Who is John Galt?
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Originally Posted By FDC: Yep. Also, write a google review. It doesn't have to be a negative review. Just a mediocre one explaining their policies and how it may affect someone. Be brief and factual. Originally Posted By FDC: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: My advice is to just wait it out and use a store you know will release when they can next time. Yep. Also, write a google review. It doesn't have to be a negative review. Just a mediocre one explaining their policies and how it may affect someone. Be brief and factual. This!! Google reviews are very powerful tools for policy change. |
All politicians are evil, but some politicians are more evil than others.
Who is John Galt?
Who is John Galt?
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Originally Posted By ArGyLe64: Back when I was an FFL, I never once got a "DENIED". I had one customer who always got delayed but would get a PROCEED anywhere from a few minutes after to a day after but he eventually would get the PROCEED. Whenever a customer got delayed, I would check each day for their proceed. If they didn't get one yet, by hour 72 I would text them and let them know they could come pick up their firearm. Were you pretty small? I worked in a fairly small store and we got them. We had a few that we released during delay that NICS would call and ask about. If we released them they just say ok and hang up. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By H2K: Apply for a UPIN if you a have a common name and things get delayed often. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/i-keep-getting-wrongfully-denied-firearms-license-there-way-avoid-happening Yeah I don't get why OP hasn't done this. |
"I miss the days of being able to shoot all commies" G.B.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Hispanics in general use a smaller pool of names as a cultural custom. This gives the FBI fits. In Anglo & Black culture, a relatively small percentage of people are named John Smith. In Hispanic culture, a relatively large percentage are named Jose Gonzalez. This results in Hispanics being delayed more often, and some of them never getting a "Proceed". NICS already discriminates against Hispanics in this manner, giving an instant proceed less often to Hispanics than whites. Hispanics go to "Processing" and "Delay" more often than Anglos do. Not transferring after the Brady date without a "Proceed" adds to the effective denial of rights that NICS implements against the Hispanic community. This last weekend I got 3 Delays - 2 were against Hispanics w/ sterotypical names from the Hispanic name pool. I may never get a Proceed on them. Sorry, the idea that "NICS discriminates" is laughable. It's a name and descriptive information check. NICS doesn't give a rats ass if "Jose Gonzalez" is Hispanic, it does matter if there is a "Jose Gonzalez" that is a prohibited person. Not everyone that has a Hispanic sounding last name is actually Hispanic. I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. I would be interested in seeing where you got this info. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By ArGyLe64: Back when I was an FFL, I never once got a "DENIED". I had one customer who always got delayed but would get a PROCEED anywhere from a few minutes after to a day after but he eventually would get the PROCEED. Whenever a customer got delayed, I would check each day for their proceed. If they didn't get one yet, by hour 72 I would text them and let them know they could come pick up their firearm. You didn't go by the Brady date that NICS gave you? 
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Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Not everyone that has a Hispanic sounding last name is actually Hispanic. Welcome to my world. Hispanic ish last name. Used to be French, but dumb Americans changed it. Sign in on a sign in sheet and fuckers would come out rolling the Rs. Get spam emails in spanish. Junk mail in spanish. I'm about the pastiest motherfucker around with French, Scottish, English, and a hair's more native blood than Liz Warren. Google my first and last name and all sorts of south of the border shit comes up. Never get delayed, but I do throw my SSN on there. |
The only thing that keeps the peace are the voices in my head.
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Originally Posted By FDC: Welcome to my world. Hispanic ish last name. Used to be French, but dumb Americans changed it. Sign in on a sign in sheet and fuckers would come out rolling the Rs. Get spam emails in spanish. Junk mail in spanish. I'm about the pastiest motherfucker around with French, Scottish, English, and a hair's more native blood than Liz Warren. Google my first and last name and all sorts of south of the border shit comes up. Never get delayed, but I do throw my SSN on there. Originally Posted By FDC: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Not everyone that has a Hispanic sounding last name is actually Hispanic. Welcome to my world. Hispanic ish last name. Used to be French, but dumb Americans changed it. Sign in on a sign in sheet and fuckers would come out rolling the Rs. Get spam emails in spanish. Junk mail in spanish. I'm about the pastiest motherfucker around with French, Scottish, English, and a hair's more native blood than Liz Warren. Google my first and last name and all sorts of south of the border shit comes up. Never get delayed, but I do throw my SSN on there. Quite a few in South Louisiana too. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Sorry, the idea that "NICS discriminates" is laughable. It's a name and descriptive information check. NICS doesn't give a rats ass if "Jose Gonzalez" is Hispanic, it does matter if there is a "Jose Gonzalez" that is a prohibited person. Not everyone that has a Hispanic sounding last name is actually Hispanic. I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. I would be interested in seeing where you got this info. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Hispanics in general use a smaller pool of names as a cultural custom. This gives the FBI fits. In Anglo & Black culture, a relatively small percentage of people are named John Smith. In Hispanic culture, a relatively large percentage are named Jose Gonzalez. This results in Hispanics being delayed more often, and some of them never getting a "Proceed". NICS already discriminates against Hispanics in this manner, giving an instant proceed less often to Hispanics than whites. Hispanics go to "Processing" and "Delay" more often than Anglos do. Not transferring after the Brady date without a "Proceed" adds to the effective denial of rights that NICS implements against the Hispanic community. This last weekend I got 3 Delays - 2 were against Hispanics w/ sterotypical names from the Hispanic name pool. I may never get a Proceed on them. Sorry, the idea that "NICS discriminates" is laughable. It's a name and descriptive information check. NICS doesn't give a rats ass if "Jose Gonzalez" is Hispanic, it does matter if there is a "Jose Gonzalez" that is a prohibited person. Not everyone that has a Hispanic sounding last name is actually Hispanic. I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. I would be interested in seeing where you got this info. Is NICS intentionally discriminating against Hispanics? No. Does it effectively discriminate? Yes. Look at your 4473s - what percentage of Hispanic customers get delays vs white & black customers? In the two years I've been doing this, Hispanics get delayed twice as much as my white customers, while the Deny rate is similarly low across both ethnic groups. The problem for Hispanics is that Jose Gonzalez IS a common name among Hispanics, while John Smith is NOT a common name among Anglos. Hispanics have the same problem as John Smith & Joe Brown - but a much higher percentage of Hispanics have the common name problem than do Anglos. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Is NICS intentionally discriminating against Hispanics? No. Does it effectively discriminate? Yes. Look at your 4473s - what percentage of Hispanic customers get delays vs white & black customers? In the two years I've been doing this, Hispanics get delayed twice as much as my white customers, while the Deny rate is similarly low across both ethnic groups. The problem for Hispanics is that Jose Gonzalez IS a common name among Hispanics, while John Smith is NOT a common name among Anglos. Hispanics have the same problem as John Smith & Joe Brown - but a much higher percentage of Hispanics have the common name problem than do Anglos. Again, I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. My last twenty delays were Non Hispanic/White. Zero Black, Asian or Hispanic/White delays in the last year. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Again, I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. My last twenty delays were Non Hispanic/White. Zero Black, Asian or Hispanic/White delays in the last year. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: Is NICS intentionally discriminating against Hispanics? No. Does it effectively discriminate? Yes. Look at your 4473s - what percentage of Hispanic customers get delays vs white & black customers? In the two years I've been doing this, Hispanics get delayed twice as much as my white customers, while the Deny rate is similarly low across both ethnic groups. The problem for Hispanics is that Jose Gonzalez IS a common name among Hispanics, while John Smith is NOT a common name among Anglos. Hispanics have the same problem as John Smith & Joe Brown - but a much higher percentage of Hispanics have the common name problem than do Anglos. Again, I've been doing this for almost seventeen years. Ive not noticed any difference in proceed rates between races. My last twenty delays were Non Hispanic/White. Zero Black, Asian or Hispanic/White delays in the last year.  How many Hispanic customers do you have? Maybe a third or more of my customers are Hispanic, and I sigh every time I have a Hispanic w/ no middle name, it's almost a guaranteed delay.
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I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By backbencher: How many Hispanic customers do you have? Maybe a third or more of my customers are Hispanic, and I sigh every time I have a Hispanic w/ no middle name, it's almost a guaranteed delay.Around 25-30% White/Hispanic. Probably half my Asian customers don't have middle names. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Around 25-30% White/Hispanic. Probably half my Asian customers don't have middle names. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By backbencher: How many Hispanic customers do you have? Maybe a third or more of my customers are Hispanic, and I sigh every time I have a Hispanic w/ no middle name, it's almost a guaranteed delay.Around 25-30% White/Hispanic. Probably half my Asian customers don't have middle names. I have very few Asian customers, despite selling quite a few Asian produced firearms. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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As of currently, I worked through the VAF and they ran the background check. Found an old misdemeanor battery arrest that was from many many years ago. They said they didn’t have enough information and denied providing me with a UPIN. They said I needed to give them all the arrest information and to try again. The FFL still hasn’t released the firearm. I spoke to good friend of mine that owns a gun store and he’s going to try and convince the other FFL to release the gun to him. And then I assume I’ll start the 4473 process again and wait another 5 days. All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? |
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Originally Posted By smitters: They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? Nope. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Where-does-it-say-an-FFL-has-the-right-to-refuse-a-sale-/44-554267/ |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By smitters: As of currently, I worked through the VAF and they ran the background check. Found an old misdemeanor battery arrest that was from many many years ago. They said they didn’t have enough information and denied providing me with a UPIN. They said I needed to give them all the arrest information and to try again. The FFL still hasn’t released the firearm. I spoke to good friend of mine that owns a gun store and he’s going to try and convince the other FFL to release the gun to him. And then I assume I’ll start the 4473 process again and wait another 5 days. All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? Try WalMart - they won't release w/o a Proceed either. Offer the guy his transfer fee + shipping to get it to another dealer. You didn't check w/ him on his business, his rules prior to doing business w/ him, so this is on you. I transfer on a Proceed or anytime on or after the Brady date. You found the guy that doesn't. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By smitters: As of currently, I worked through the VAF and they ran the background check. Found an old misdemeanor battery arrest that was from many many years ago. They said they didn’t have enough information and denied providing me with a UPIN. They said I needed to give them all the arrest information and to try again. The FFL still hasn’t released the firearm. I spoke to good friend of mine that owns a gun store and he’s going to try and convince the other FFL to release the gun to him. And then I assume I’ll start the 4473 process again and wait another 5 days. All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? The FFL holder is in a corner too. While he could release it after the Brady date WHAT IF a deny came back later? Does he want that scrutiny? Will there be blowback on him if someone does something bad with a gun he sold? Mind you, I see NICS as unconstitutional but, it's what we have and ATF will ATF and the FFL is probably being overly cautious. I would blame government first and foremost. FFLs shouldn't be a thing. |
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Originally Posted By smitters: As of currently, I worked through the VAF and they ran the background check. Found an old misdemeanor battery arrest that was from many many years ago. They said they didn’t have enough information and denied providing me with a UPIN. They said I needed to give them all the arrest information and to try again. The FFL still hasn’t released the firearm. I spoke to good friend of mine that owns a gun store and he’s going to try and convince the other FFL to release the gun to him. And then I assume I’ll start the 4473 process again and wait another 5 days. All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? If you think that bad check this. You buy a $900 suppressor, wait a year (not now I know), to pickup you must fill out a 4473. That's it. But some FFL will call in the 4473, which is not required. What if they get a delay? After jumping through all the NFA hoops you don't get your suppressor. Why would the dealer risk that? |
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Originally Posted By AR_Dale: If you think that bad check this. You buy a $900 suppressor, wait a year (not now I know), to pickup you must fill out a 4473. That's it. But some FFL will call in the 4473, which is not required. What if they get a delay? After jumping through all the NFA hoops you don't get your suppressor. Why would the dealer risk that? Originally Posted By AR_Dale: Originally Posted By smitters: As of currently, I worked through the VAF and they ran the background check. Found an old misdemeanor battery arrest that was from many many years ago. They said they didn’t have enough information and denied providing me with a UPIN. They said I needed to give them all the arrest information and to try again. The FFL still hasn’t released the firearm. I spoke to good friend of mine that owns a gun store and he’s going to try and convince the other FFL to release the gun to him. And then I assume I’ll start the 4473 process again and wait another 5 days. All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? If you think that bad check this. You buy a $900 suppressor, wait a year (not now I know), to pickup you must fill out a 4473. That's it. But some FFL will call in the 4473, which is not required. What if they get a delay? After jumping through all the NFA hoops you don't get your suppressor. Why would the dealer risk that? The dealer isn't risking anything by running an unnecessary NICS check on a can other than your goodwill. His IOI may have even told him to do so. ATF ran NICS before issuing the stamp, so all the additional NICS check is doing is slowing down the process. It says on the 4473 itself no NICS check is needed for stamped items. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By smitters: ....All in all. It’s absolute BS that an FFL is the sole decider of my second amendment right. They can deny me owning a firearm just because they can. That has to be a civil rights problem…? Right? Wrong. It's a business decision. You ever stop and think, especially after reading what all the FFL's in this thread have written, WHY your dealer has this policy? He isn't going to make more $$$ by keeping your gun. He isn't keeping your gun because he wants to be an ass. He isn't violating your civil rights. He isn't the "sole decider" as to whether you get the gun. He isn't doing this "just because he can". Your dealer is required by federal law to abide by certain laws and regulations. You know that. If he fails to abide by those laws and regs, he risks losing his FFL and possible fines and prison time. AGAIN, the Brady Law does not require him to transfer a firearm on a certain date. You seem to hold to the belief that it does. As posted previously, the Brady Law does not prohibit him from transferring after the delay period has ended, but it doesn't require him to do so. Thats a business decision or business policy that you could or should have asked about before using him for transfer. AGAIN, many big box stores have had the policy for decades. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By Homesteader375: The FFL holder is in a corner too. While he could release it after the Brady date WHAT IF a deny came back later? Does he want that scrutiny? Will there be blowback on him if someone does something bad with a gun he sold? I've had that happen once. Transferred gun and over a month later FBI NICS calls to tell me "denied". They asked me to fax a copy of that 4473 and said they would take care of it. It was no big deal, wasn't discussed with ATF until I brought it up at my compliance inspection, no additional scrutiny, dog unharmed. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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USA
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Wrong. It's a business decision. You ever stop and think, especially after reading what all the FFL's in this thread have written, WHY your dealer has this policy? He isn't going to make more $$$ by keeping your gun. He isn't keeping your gun because he wants to be an ass. He isn't violating your civil rights. He isn't the "sole decider" as to whether you get the gun. He isn't doing this "just because he can". Your dealer is required by federal law to abide by certain laws and regulations. You know that. If he fails to abide by those laws and regs, he risks losing his FFL and possible fines and prison time. AGAIN, the Brady Law does not require him to transfer a firearm on a certain date. You seem to hold to the belief that it does. As posted previously, the Brady Law does not prohibit him from transferring after the delay period has ended, but it doesn't require him to do so. Thats a business decision or business policy that you could or should have asked about before using him for transfer. AGAIN, many big box stores have had the policy for decades. Whats the business decision? The FFL isn't responsible if he releases it and it comes back denied later. OP, you should name these assholes so others can know and he can find out his "business decision" can cost him business. |
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Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Whats the business decision? The FFL isn't responsible if he releases it and it comes back denied later. OP, you should name these assholes so others can know and he can find out his "business decision" can cost him business. Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Wrong. It's a business decision. You ever stop and think, especially after reading what all the FFL's in this thread have written, WHY your dealer has this policy? He isn't going to make more $$$ by keeping your gun. He isn't keeping your gun because he wants to be an ass. He isn't violating your civil rights. He isn't the "sole decider" as to whether you get the gun. He isn't doing this "just because he can". Your dealer is required by federal law to abide by certain laws and regulations. You know that. If he fails to abide by those laws and regs, he risks losing his FFL and possible fines and prison time. AGAIN, the Brady Law does not require him to transfer a firearm on a certain date. You seem to hold to the belief that it does. As posted previously, the Brady Law does not prohibit him from transferring after the delay period has ended, but it doesn't require him to do so. Thats a business decision or business policy that you could or should have asked about before using him for transfer. AGAIN, many big box stores have had the policy for decades. Whats the business decision? The FFL isn't responsible if he releases it and it comes back denied later. OP, you should name these assholes so others can know and he can find out his "business decision" can cost him business. Or you could just research your transfer FFL's policies BEFORE you have a gun transferred to him. |
I sell firearms produced by the finest child labor in the world, be it Filipino, Muslim, Mormon, Arizonan, or Texan.
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Originally Posted By Jmo371: You don't....unless you can persuade him to release it to you before the proceed status comes through. Often a "proceed" is never sent. Delay and then if they do not deny within 5 days the firearm should be released regardless of not receiving a proceed. FFL is a dick. Have him send it to an FFL you know. |
N&MEM, SSDR, NRA Life Member
Epstein Scalia did not kill himself.
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
Gun control is literally Hitler.
Trump's actions? Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?
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Originally Posted By backbencher: Or you could just research your transfer FFL's policies BEFORE you have a gun transferred to him. Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Wrong. It's a business decision. You ever stop and think, especially after reading what all the FFL's in this thread have written, WHY your dealer has this policy? He isn't going to make more $$$ by keeping your gun. He isn't keeping your gun because he wants to be an ass. He isn't violating your civil rights. He isn't the "sole decider" as to whether you get the gun. He isn't doing this "just because he can". Your dealer is required by federal law to abide by certain laws and regulations. You know that. If he fails to abide by those laws and regs, he risks losing his FFL and possible fines and prison time. AGAIN, the Brady Law does not require him to transfer a firearm on a certain date. You seem to hold to the belief that it does. As posted previously, the Brady Law does not prohibit him from transferring after the delay period has ended, but it doesn't require him to do so. Thats a business decision or business policy that you could or should have asked about before using him for transfer. AGAIN, many big box stores have had the policy for decades. Whats the business decision? The FFL isn't responsible if he releases it and it comes back denied later. OP, you should name these assholes so others can know and he can find out his "business decision" can cost him business. Or you could just research your transfer FFL's policies BEFORE you have a gun transferred to him. We don't do that around these parts. We like to get madddddd |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Whats the business decision? Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Wrong. It's a business decision. You ever stop and think, especially after reading what all the FFL's in this thread have written, WHY your dealer has this policy? He isn't going to make more $$$ by keeping your gun. He isn't keeping your gun because he wants to be an ass. He isn't violating your civil rights. He isn't the "sole decider" as to whether you get the gun. He isn't doing this "just because he can". Your dealer is required by federal law to abide by certain laws and regulations. You know that. If he fails to abide by those laws and regs, he risks losing his FFL and possible fines and prison time. AGAIN, the Brady Law does not require him to transfer a firearm on a certain date. You seem to hold to the belief that it does. As posted previously, the Brady Law does not prohibit him from transferring after the delay period has ended, but it doesn't require him to do so. Thats a business decision or business policy that you could or should have asked about before using him for transfer. AGAIN, many big box stores have had the policy for decades. Whats the business decision? Whether to transfer after the Brady date or not. It's a business policy decision made by a business owner. If you go to the gun store to buy a gun, the doors are locked at 7pm. Sign on door says "Open 10am-6pm"......thats called a business decision. Don't get all pissy because your old FFL stayed open until 7pm. The FFL isn't responsible if he releases it and it comes back denied later. FYI, "denied" transactions, firearm trace requests or a history of transferring guns with a short "time to crime" results in additional scrutiny of the licensee. OP, you should name these assholes so others can know and he can find out his "business decision" can cost him business. The dealer isn't an asshole. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE