Posted: 3/31/2025 2:49:50 AM EDT
| A friend inherited around 40 guns. 90% of them are older than 1970. They don’t want them and want to sell in the easiest way possible. They were contemplating getting a booth at a gun show and selling them there. Is that legal? I know the ATF has some weird rules regarding selling guns as an individual. |
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Originally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: have an ffl do it for you and ATF is just fine with it But he's asking is it legal to just sell your own collection without an FFL. I'm not a lawyer, but what the law SAYS iirc is that you can sell guns without an FFL if you're not in the business of selling guns, and "selling from your personal collection" is often cited in ATF references as kosher. In practice, the ATF's attempt to redefine "in the business" and label people as "unlicensed dealers" based on subjective and unclear criteria means that you're probably safer just having the FFL do it because even if it ends up being legal, it's not improbable that you'll be proving it in court. |
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If he’s just liquidating his personal collection it wouldn’t be an issue here in Texas. Not uncommon for unlicensed guys to get a table locally for just that. That said it’d be a better use of his time to just sell them online probably. All that said he should just talk to some dealers. Some are very reasonable and can handle the gunbroker listings etc |
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There is no federal law preventing somebody from liquidating a gun collection without a FFL. It's common for private collectors to have tables at gun shows for that exact reason. With that being said if they truly want to sell them the "easiest way possible" it would be much easier to just consign them with a dealer. They will probably be able to sell them for slightly more than you would as a private seller so even after the ~15% consignment fee you'll probably net around the same anyway without having to do any work. |
| Varies between states. FL banned private sales at gun shows. And even if it is not a state law then it could be a local ordinance. I would imagine that the show organizer would be able to tell you because they have to make sure they are following the law. Just reach out to them and ask if you can set up a table for you private collection. |
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Originally Posted By 18B30: If there are no state laws preventing face to face sales, the BATF will not care about a single, one time sale of firearms are legitimately being disposed of by an inheritor. In TN it would not be an issue. |
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Depends on the state. Wouldn’t be an issue in Oklahoma As long as he didn’t knowingly sell to out of state residents or felons. Key word is knowingly. The law doesn’t require a private party seller to check ID or keep records. Lots of fudds here and fake 2A supporters so you’ll get lots of incorrect answers |
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Originally Posted By mak0: There is no federal law preventing somebody from liquidating a gun collection without a FFL. It's common for private collectors to have tables at gun shows for that exact reason. With that being said if they truly want to sell them the "easiest way possible" it would be much easier to just consign them with a dealer. They will probably be able to sell them for slightly more than you would as a private seller so even after the ~15% consignment fee you'll probably net around the same anyway without having to do any work. I would do this, but not just any FFL. My LGS is a small family dealer but they move a lot of inventory, sell online, ship guns daily. |
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No. It is all about intent. Selling 40 guns you inherit is simply liquidating a collection. Acquiring 40 guns by going around to flea markets, buying guns off of armslist and in other private party transactions, buying guns in your name on a 4473 from a gun shop and then taking them to a gun show and selling them for a profit because, "Hey private seller no background checks" is dealing without a license. |
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The answer is a solid "it depends". The definition of being involved in the business of selling guns is a moving target. It is probably less of a concern now than it was during the last administration, but the fact remains that if an individual agent / attorney at the ATF decides you are engaged in the business of selling guns without an FFL, you life will get massively enshittified overnight. Probably best to consider getting the advice of a qualified attorney, or at least weighing the cost of that advice against the fee to have an FFL do it on consignment. |
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57: If he's just liquidating his personal collection it wouldn't be an issue here in Texas. Not uncommon for unlicensed guys to get a table locally for just that. That said it'd be a better use of his time to just sell them online probably. All that said he should just talk to some dealers. Some are very reasonable and can handle the gunbroker listings etc Also, some states like MA restrict you to selling no more than 4 guns in a calendar year. So state laws matter as well. |
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Also worth adding: In MA as the gun shows started, revenuers from the MA Dept of Revenue went around and made sure that every seller had a MA Vendor's Sales Tax Certificate and was collecting and paying sales tax (and declaring the income on the state income tax return). When I lived there, my Wife and I volunteered to man the table for our state association and received two such visits from MA DOR at the table. So states that collect sales taxes may also be an impediment to renting a table to sell off the guns. |
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Legal at least here, but it would be one hell of a pain in the ass. Not all guns are going to sell at the very first gun show. (Assuming he sells any at all, private sellers tend to over-value their collection) Then there are the gun show fees and travel to consider. Myself, it's well worth the consignment fee to sell thru a dealer. On the plus side, the dealer takes credit cards and is not reliant on a cash sale like he would be. |
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Originally Posted By BigHunt: No. It is all about intent. Selling 40 guns you inherit is simply liquidating a collection. Acquiring 40 guns by going around to flea markets, buying guns off of armslist and in other private party transactions, buying guns in your name on a 4473 from a gun shop and then taking them to a gun show and selling them for a profit because, "Hey private seller no background checks" is dealing without a license. This the ATF has a q&a listed for this specfic question. |
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Originally Posted By JaredC1: So you recommend being more strict than your state and the feds require? And you don’t see the hypocrisy in your infringement? There is no infringement here. If a private seller decides they will only sell to people with ID, that in no was implicates the Second Amendment (or any Amendment for that matter). A private seller can decide they will only sell firearms to guys with red hair named Rusty if they wish. Or only to people born in March. |
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He spoke with a highly recommended guy who specializes in buying entire collections and reselling them. He said the majority that the buyer he sells he wholesales out all over the country to a network of dealers he has worked with over the past 20 years. He said he has different dealers that want different stuff. He said this guy seemed very honest and a straight shooter and told him that he buys at 50% of retail. I am not sure if that is good or bad. I am my buddies "gun guy" and am trying to give him good advice. My buddy isn't hurting for money at all and just wants a fair deal. He doesn't mind getting a booth and spending a couple weekends at it if need be. My thoughts were to search up the guns on Gun Broker and find what a realistic value is for them. The price that stuff has actually sold for not crazy asking prices. I would assume these would be close to what the buyer considers retail. If he sold everything at say 75% of this value that would get him 25% more than the buyer guy. I just don't know how difficult that will be. If say the 40 guns had an average value of $500 that would be 20k so we are talking about a 5k difference. |
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Originally Posted By Doodlebug: He spoke with a highly recommended guy who specializes in buying entire collections and reselling them. He said the majority that the buyer he sells he wholesales out all over the country to a network of dealers he has worked with over the past 20 years. He said he has different dealers that want different stuff. He said this guy seemed very honest and a straight shooter and told him that he buys at 50% of retail. I am not sure if that is good or bad. I am my buddies "gun guy" and am trying to give him good advice. My buddy isn't hurting for money at all and just wants a fair deal. He doesn't mind getting a booth and spending a couple weekends at it if need be. My thoughts were to search up the guns on Gun Broker and find what a realistic value is for them. The price that stuff has actually sold for not crazy asking prices. I would assume these would be close to what the buyer considers retail. If he sold everything at say 75% of this value that would get him 25% more than the buyer guy. I just don't know how difficult that will be. If say the 40 guns had an average value of $500 that would be 20k so we are talking about a 5k difference. 50% of retail is a pretty common if you want to just sell them outright to a dealer. If you don't need cash immediately consign them instead. Typical consignment fees are around 15% meaning you will get around 85% of the retail value. You just have to wait until it sells to get your money. Some dealers even prefer consigning over buying and reselling especially for niche items because there is no risk on their end if it doesn't sell. |
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Originally Posted By Doodlebug: A friend inherited around 40 guns. 90% of them are older than 1970. They don't want them and want to sell in the easiest way possible. They were contemplating getting a booth at a gun show and selling them there. Is that legal? I know the ATF has some weird rules regarding selling guns as an individual. Man, if I willed 40+ of my guns to someone and they turned around and sold/disposed of them, I think I'd come back and haunt them. |
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Op still hasn't given the state his buddy is in. That makes a big difference in the reply(ies) Research the "sold" price of the item Get a table at a gun show Price tag with description Talk to the buyers. Dealers will walk the show. Those are the buyers that can possibly get the items sold whether buying out or consignment. Tell them it's a liquidation sale Prepare to haggle. If the prices are too high you won't sell. Bring a red sharpie to slash prices if nothing sells within the 1st hour Research. Talk the the table owners next to you and get their advice. Prepare to screen out the BS |
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Here is what ATF says: Q – Does the final rule ( 2022R-17F) provide examples of when a person would not be presumed to be engaged in the business requiring a license as a dealer? A – Yes. Under this final rule, a person would not be presumed to be “engaged in the business” requiring a license as a dealer when reliable evidence shows the person transfers firearms only: o As bona fide gifts; o Occasionally to obtain more valuable, desirable, or useful firearms for their personal collection; o Occasionally to a licensee or a to a family member for lawful purposes; o To liquidate (without restocking) all or part of their personal collection; or o To liquidate firearms that are inherited; or o Pursuant to a court order; or o To assist in liquidating firearms as an auctioneer when providing auction services on commission at an estate-type auction. State Law may vary. |
| 50% of retail is a big hit so it all depends on how much work he is willing to put in. Cabelas pays 2/3’s retail. Around here it wouldn’t be hard to beat 50%. There’s a shop or two that does consignment and charges 25% that’s where I’d start if I wasn’t in a hurry. |
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ATF- DO I NEED A LICENSE TO BUY AND SELL FIREARMS? Guidance to help you understand when a Federal Firearms License is required under federal law. |
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Don't buy or trade anything from the booth, just sales. It's hard to be "in the business" if you're not buying too. I'd even hang a sign saying "ONE-TIME ESTATE SALE - ONLY SALES AND NO TRADES." On the next line, I'd add "(YOUR HOME STATE) RESIDENTS, FFL HOLDERS, AND C&R HOLDERS ONLY." |
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Originally Posted By urbanredneck: FL banned private sales at gun shows. And even if it is not a state law then it could be a local ordinance. @urbanredneck Public property sales only if the county has an Ordinance. With that said, many counties have Ordinances they don't actually enforce as they lack a system to do so as the SOA doesn't take lead on Ordinances violations. Where I work we have county Ordinances but we don't charge under them as we don't have a prosecution system set up to deal with it. In short, criminal county Ordinances are kind of worthless. The state has left it up to individual counties to regulate PRIVATE SALES ON PUBLIC PROPERTY but there's no state law banning all private sales at gun show per se. A show at the county Fair Grounds COULD be a problem... the same show at a private property venue, no problem. If you have info otherwise please let me know as I could have some of this wrong. |
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check local laws. it should be legal still in your state unless you are in a bad location you need to flee from. ask gun show vendors as well as show promoter before asking a govt agency well known for giving bad advice and or silence when it promotes their agenda. |
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Originally Posted By urbanredneck: Varies between states. FL banned private sales at gun shows. And even if it is not a state law then it could be a local ordinance. I would imagine that the show organizer would be able to tell you because they have to make sure they are following the law. Just reach out to them and ask if you can set up a table for you private collection. @urbanredneck When did this happen? Link to the law? |
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Originally Posted By Doodlebug: A friend inherited around 40 guns. 90% of them are older than 1970. They don’t want them and want to sell in the easiest way possible. They were contemplating getting a booth at a gun show and selling them there. Is that legal? I know the ATF has some weird rules regarding selling guns as an individual. It's absolutely legal. No question about it. It's also a sure path to frustration. Tell your friend to sell them through an auction company. Find a auction house that does consignment gun auctions and let them do it. |
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Originally Posted By zoe17: In TN it would not be an issue. Originally Posted By zoe17: Originally Posted By 18B30: If there are no state laws preventing face to face sales, the BATF will not care about a single, one time sale of firearms are legitimately being disposed of by an inheritor. In TN it would not be an issue. No problem in Ok. I have done it. I just put a sign out, "Personal Collection"... As far as your friend, it depends, does he know anything about what he has..? |
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I have done it with my uncles collection and it was legal and fine. For here in Oregon, it did needs to go to an FFL and I had the buyers pay for it and that was it. |
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Originally Posted By JaredC1: So you recommend being more strict than your state and the feds require? And you don’t see the hypocrisy in your infringement? AFT has had a few stings trying to entrap ppl innocently following the law. Proving the buyer is a state resident is the minimum I would require, considering the grief AFT causes regularly, yeah I think it's reasonable to show a DL. Not asking to take a picture or record the data, just let me lay eyes on for 5 seconds and it's good. Your results may vary. |
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