I'm out. Shutting down my brokerage after 15 years. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 6/14/2024 9:24:06 PM EDT
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My wife and I have owned and operated a small auto transport brokerage company for 15 years. Mostly LTTL stuff for commercial accounts. We're fed up. Car dealerships suck. Which we knew getting into it. I used to work for one. The quality of drivers out there is deteriorating. All the good ones that we used to use on a regular basis have shut their doors. We're bombarded with fly by night jokers that either don't have insurance or their MC is revoked. It's crazy. I'll update with the "straw that broke the camel's back" story when I have time to type it out, if anybody's interested. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: My wife and I have owned and operated a small auto transport brokerage company for 15 years. Mostly LTTL stuff for commercial accounts. We're fed up. Car dealerships suck. Which we knew getting into it. I used to work for one. The quality of drivers out there is deteriorating. All the good ones that we used to use on a regular basis have shut their doors. We're bombarded with fly by night jokers that either don't have insurance or their MC is revoked. It's crazy. I'll update with the "straw that broke the camel's back" story when I have time to type it out, if anybody's interested. |
And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
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Originally Posted By Subnet: I'm interested. Originally Posted By Subnet: Originally Posted By ARHank: My wife and I have owned and operated a small auto transport brokerage company for 15 years. Mostly LTTL stuff for commercial accounts. We're fed up. Car dealerships suck. Which we knew getting into it. I used to work for one. The quality of drivers out there is deteriorating. All the good ones that we used to use on a regular basis have shut their doors. We're bombarded with fly by night jokers that either don't have insurance or their MC is revoked. It's crazy. I'll update with the "straw that broke the camel's back" story when I have time to type it out, if anybody's interested. Seconded |
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Like I said I worked for a dealership. I was the Inventory and Reconditioning Manager. A fancy title for the only dude in the building that spent money instead of make it. Part of my duties were to get vehicle shipped. I found that brokers only lied when their lips were moving and had no idea what a dealership was looking for. They were all about "best price" when all I cared about was an honest quote and timely movement of my iron. So, after a while I signed us up on a couple broker boards and started dealing directly with drivers. Fast forward a few years and our dealership changes hands. Me being nervous about being fired, I started putting in applications and applied for my brokers license. They ended up keeping me but fired half the sales managers and salesmen. Who inevitabley ended up at other dealerships, and started calling me to move their cars. I got another job and left on good terms. The business became more than a side gig and I slowly turned the day to day over to my wife. She eventually took it over completely while I focused on my career. |
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Wife unit is not built for the car business. It's tough. Salesmen ain't good at math, they can't fix a thing, but they are really good at manipulating your emotions to get you to do what they want. My wife cares too much. She thinks someone giving her grief about a car not moving for a few days is a personal attack. It's stressful on her and she wants to make me proud. I've been telling her to shut it down for a while. She is willing to go above and beyond for her customers. She has worked hard to built a good reputation. We've never charged more than we've quoted, even if it costs us more. She pays drivers when they show up and a car isn't ready. We've paid to fix cars that have been damaged, probably not by the driver, and after delivery. It's not always the most profitable but she does okay and figures that we will build relationships with our customers and drivers that will pay off in the long run. |
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So November of last year, she ships a new Escalade V, with 6 miles on ti, for our favorite dealership, the one I used to work for. We have better/bigger customers but I am friends with much of the staff and have worked for the new leadership for over a decade. We found a guy with a newer dually and a two car enclosed to deliver this rig to a small desert town. After it's dropped the GM tells my wife that the customer was upset that it was dropped off my this little guy and not a tractor trailer. She explains that it was an enclosed trailer, when they requested open, this guy had a good reputation, clean records, and she checked his insurance. TWELVE DAYS LATER, the customer takes the new hot rod to the dealer in his state to "have it looked over". Wouldn't you know if, they discovered some undercarriage damage. The GM calls my wife and says he's getting an estimate. She asks that he sends it over. |
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(Sorry this is taking forever, I have a house full of kids and my thumbs getting tired. Should've busted out the laptop.) So ex-recon guy gets home and wife has him review the estimate, including attached pictures. Radiator, condenser, and intercooler are tacoed and leaking. Front splitter damaged. All of the skid plates and air dams damaged. Lower control arm torn. Giant dent in the fuel tank. Check engine light is on. Etcetera. Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Yeah, no. I call the GM at the dealership and tell him this guy is full of shit. There is no way that he didn't notice this damage for 10 days. He asks if the driver and I could kick in to make this go away. Absolutely not. This guy was fucking around in his new hot rod and launched it in to the desert or something. He needs to man up and call his insurance company. I'm not paying for it. Weeks pass and I assume they moved on. Nope, "Hey this guy's attorney has reached out and our inhouse attorney would like to speak with you". I agree to a call and explain that this guy took responsibility for the cargo when he signed the bill of lading and there is no way that damage happened while strapped down in an enclosed trailer. I provide pictures from pick up and delivery, including it sitting in his driveway, not leaking coolant, and the odometer with the same six miles on it. I figure this settles it and months go by... |
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Originally Posted By PhuzzyGnu: This is relevant to my interests. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69748/PXL_20240404_150219128_jpg-3241182.JPG 
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Originally Posted By ARHank: (Sorry this is taking forever, I have a house full of kids and my thumbs getting tired. Should've busted out the laptop.) So ex-recon guy gets home and wife has him review the estimate, including attached pictures. Radiator, condenser, and intercooler are tacoed and leaking. Front splitter damaged. All of the skid plates and air dams damaged. Lower control arm torn. Giant dent in the fuel tank. Check engine light is on. Etcetera. Yeah, no. I call the GM at the dealership and tell him this guy is full of shit. There is no way that he didn't notice this damage for 10 days. He asks if the driver and I could kick in to make this go away. Absolutely not. This guy was fucking around in his new hot rod and launched it in to the desert or something. He needs to man up and call his insurance company. I'm not paying for it. Weeks pass and I assume they moved on. Nope, "Hey this guy's attorney has reached out and our inhouse attorney would like to speak with you". I agree to a call and explain that this guy took responsibility for the cargo when he signed the bill of lading and there is no way that damage happened while strapped down in an enclosed trailer. I provide pictures from pick up and delivery, including it sitting in his driveway, not leaking coolant, and the odometer with the same six miles on it. I figure this settles it and months go by... Mebbe too late, but you could have an attorney ask them to pull the last few drives from the ECU. Anything with an impact like you are describing might even be recorded in the ECU. Should show mileage when it happened, possibly time/date. EDIT - I see the pics now, it HAD to start throwing some codes with all of that, and the right level of reader should show a mileage when that started happening. I'm sort of surprised it didn't blow the airbags with the suspension damage. |
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Originally Posted By -Kyuss-: In. One of the many reasons I shut my doors and went another direction a few years ago. Finding reliable drivers was a pain in the ass. What about the Mike Rowe Works Foundation? Don't they help decent kids find jobs. https://mikeroweworks.org/ |
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So, it's done right? NOPE! Six months later, I get an email from the dealership's attorney. It starts out nice saying that this guy just won't go away. That they made him an offer and he turned it down. He was demanding a new truck and the damages to his vehicle totaled $26,000, ten times the original estimate. He then goes on to say that he doesn't represent me but thinks that it would be in everybody's best interest if I kicked in some dough to make this go away. He adds that although he doesn't represent me, if this goes further, he may have to "submit formal tender" to my company for his services. (Tender deez nuts, pal) Then asks to set up a phone call. I agree to a call and hit the books. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: My wife and I have owned and operated a small auto transport brokerage company for 15 years. Mostly LTTL stuff for commercial accounts. We're fed up. Car dealerships suck. Which we knew getting into it. I used to work for one. The quality of drivers out there is deteriorating. All the good ones that we used to use on a regular basis have shut their doors. We're bombarded with fly by night jokers that either don't have insurance or their MC is revoked. It's crazy. I'll update with the "straw that broke the camel's back" story when I have time to type it out, if anybody's interested. Boomers fittin to find out. |
We are the Knights who say Fuuuuu!
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As someone who does similar but for a different market segment - this is interesting. Been there - experienced that. I document the living shit out of each & every vehicle we move at pick up and at delivery. Once they signed for it - don't bother me later with your bullshit after the fact. Those A-holes are trying to screw you, because that customer f'ed up his own ride and is trying to screw them. You & your wife have my sympathy Brother! Bigger_Hammer 
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LIFE'S JOURNEY IS NOT TO ARRIVE AT THE GRAVE SAFELY IN A WELL PRESERVED BODY,
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
BUT RATHER TO SKID IN SIDEWAYS, TOTALLY WORN OUT SHOUTING "HOLY $H!T...WHAT A RIDE"!!
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I haven't had an at-fault damage claim in nine and a half years. Attached File Attached File |
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I knew the lawyer from when I worked at the dealership. The GM, I didn't meet until after I left. He actually started using me to ship, when he was at a couple of different places, before he transferred to the store I worked for. I've never really liked the guy. I was a luxury car guy and he was quite the opposite and ended up at nice dealer. I didn't like the way he treated customers nor how presented his product. Anyway, I take the call. The lawyer starts monologuing and I let him speak. "Well, we know that the damage probably didn't happen during transport... We feel it's in everybody's best interest.... [tossin' in some Latin] ... customer is difficult. ...make this go away." Me: Attached File I explain in detail how the damage could not have been caused by the driver. The attorney tried to start in with the "We kno...make it go away". I continue. Interstate transportation of vehicles is regulated by the federal government. I am a broker. I am required to licensed and bonded. A motor carrier is required to be licensed, bonded, and insured. There is a reason that I am not required to carry insurance. It is because I don't carry cargo. It is never in my possession which is why brokers are rarely held liable for damage. I have already told you that I will not pay for the damage your customer caused to his vehicle and frankly I am offended that after all these years, the xxx corporation is trying to strong arm me into to supporting this nonsense. He tries to say nobody is strong arming anyone, we just... I interrupted by reading quotes from his email. I did some research last night. The only time a broker is held liable for damages is where the driver is acting as a statutory employee and cite a case in which a driver was expected to report to a broker on a schedule daily and he moved the brokers goods to the brokers wearhouse. I then cited several cases, some that were brought to the supreme court and involved substantial monetary compensation due to damage and or death. The broker is never held liable. You have been dealing with this for six months, I'm sure you already knew that. A BOL is a legally binding document. Once provided to the shipper the driver assumes responsibility for the cargo. Once delivered, the recipient signs the BoL, releasing the driver from the liability. "I know what a BOL is". Then you know this guy doesn't have a case! There is a reason why this lawyer hasn't reached out to me or the driver. He reached out to xxx corp because they own xx dealerships. He knows that soon enough xxx corp is going to get sick of paying attorney xxx's billable hours and stroke him a check. So you figure a couple cleverly worded emails and a phone call will help soften that blow. Well, I'm not going to do it. The way I see it, I have zero liability. The only leverage you have over me is your future business and I don't want it. Dead silence. "Well, I guess that's it then" More silence. (The GM said nothing this entire time) "Could you please send me the driver's information?" It's on the header of the BOL. "Well, like a contact?" He's a one man band. "Well thank you very much Mr. ARHank" |
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My wife and I had discussed the business and what we wanted to do. We had already decided to fire this customer and maybe just shutting it down all together. I called her when I got off with the lawyer and gave her the run down. She asks what I want to do. If I want to shut down completely. I told her that I wanted to shut it down years ago. I thought it was too much stress for her and we didn't really need the money. It is her company now and the decision was hers. She asked if I would be disappointed in her and I told her absolutely not. So she said let's do it. She started calling all of her customers that work for xxx Corp, with pending jobs or quotes and explained the situation. Most pleaded with her not to shut down and bad mouthed the GM in question. Word got around and she started getting calls and info. One of the managers overheard the GM talking to the lawyer about how they'd get them to pay for it. Apparently his demeanor changed quickly after our call. The GM pulled in two different techs to review the estimate and pictures. Both told him no way that was done by the transporter. I got a call that night from another sales manager, a friend of mine. He tells me he's done. He just packed up his desk and he's going in in the morning to drop off his demo and quit in person. I told him he better not be quitting over me. It's not a big deal. I don't really care. He says that he has been wanting to for a while and this just pushed him over the edge. He told me that he wouldn't be working there when he was 50 and he turned 50 early in the year. I feel bad but he says not to. He needed a car so he bought one from his home state. It'll probably be the last one we ship |
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Originally Posted By AR15Texan: What about the Mike Rowe Works Foundation? Don't they help decent kids find jobs. https://mikeroweworks.org/ I wasn't really looking for kids. |
Find around and fuck out.
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I don't want to seem ungrateful. This isn't the most lucrative business but it has allowed my wife to work from home while raising our kids. Assuming we don't get sued, there's enough money left to pay for my son's last two years at ERAU and for college for my daughter wherever she might want to go. She is doubting her decision. I think it's best for her mental health. Last week we went on vacation and it was the first time she didn't bring her laptop or have to worry about getting a job scheduled. I told her that I would prefer for her to stay home. If she really wanted to go get a job at the elementary school. At least there you can stop the crying with a hug and a tissue.  I've thought about starting something else. I wanted to start a non-profit, organizing desert clean ups. I'd gear it towards shooters and off roaders. Buy a big dump trailer and recycle the brass. She could run social media and look for sponsors. She thinks it is scammy. I tried to explain it's advertising and companies could write off donations. |
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Originally Posted By -Kyuss-: I wasn't really looking for kids. Originally Posted By -Kyuss-: Originally Posted By AR15Texan: What about the Mike Rowe Works Foundation? Don't they help decent kids find jobs. https://mikeroweworks.org/ I wasn't really looking for kids. "Kids" is relative when you're over 50. How about 25-35 year olds. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: @DayandNight1701 I don't understand this comment. Is this supposed to mean that boomers are some how to blame for today's shitty work ethic? Originally Posted By ARHank: Originally Posted By DayandNight1701: Boomers fittin to find out. I don't understand this comment. Is this supposed to mean that boomers are some how to blame for today's shitty work ethic? As a general rule, when I see that word - I now tend to just write off the originator as a bitter person in a lesser station and blaming others for it. I'm not a boomer, and have my annoyances- but good grief, it's pretty much an epitaph now. Not that I give a shit or clutch pearls over it - but don't expect to be recieved with respect if you are using it like a slur. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: As a general rule, when I see that word - I now tend to just write off the originator as a bitter person in a lesser station and blaming others for it. I'm not a boomer, and have my annoyances- but good grief, it's pretty much an epitaph now. Not that I give a shit or clutch pearls over it - but don't expect to be recieved with respect if you are using it like a slur. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: @DayandNight1701 I don't understand this comment. Is this supposed to mean that boomers are some how to blame for today's shitty work ethic? Originally Posted By ARHank: Originally Posted By DayandNight1701: Boomers fittin to find out. I don't understand this comment. Is this supposed to mean that boomers are some how to blame for today's shitty work ethic? Interesting story, and I hate that you're feeling so stressed that you have to shut it all down. May end up being a good decision in the end though. I've left positions and companies due to high stress levels myself, and even though I've given up some money at times, I've never regretted living a better life despite not being able to buy quite as much junk. |
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Originally Posted By TGE: Just ignore it. I assume it's supposed be some kind of joke to rile someone up but seems completely irrelevant. Interesting story, and I hate that you're feeling so stressed that you have to shut it all down. May end up being a good decision in the end though. I've left positions and companies due to high stress levels myself, and even though I've given up some money at times, I've never regretted living a better life despite not being able to buy quite as much junk. I'm not really stressed about shutting it down. A little disappointed. It was something we took pride in. It's sad to see an industry that we loved go down hill. I don't want to sound racist but it is getting over run with foreigners. The people who struggle to speak English have been increasing exponentially. Not that I care, as long as they do a good job, but they don't. You check their inspection records and they are littered with violations. I have drivers that we'll set clear expectations, prior to booking the job and they either don't comprehend or just don't GAF. Driver's calling customers in the middle of the night, demanding that they meet them miles away to pick up their car or they're going to abandon it. Crazy stuff. It was never like that before. When we would list a vehicle, you could almost always assign the job to the first person that called. Now we would turn down 5 or more companies before we would find one that we thought we could trust. Some parts of the country are even worse. Meanwhile there are shitty brokers out there that don't even check to see if the company they are hiring has an active MC or current insurance. Your customers look at you like, So & So company can get my car's moved, why can't you? Or they they think I charge too much because I pay the drivers a fair rate. It's a lot cheaper to run illegal and open a new shell company when you get caught. This was the wife's gig. I have a real job. I manage a large fleet of vehicles. It pays decent and has really good benefits. We live below our means. Our kids tuition is more than our mortgage but he'll graduate debt free. I'll be able to do the same for my daughter. I'm on track to retire with a few mil socked away and a pension. I should have the house paid off about the time my daughter graduates college. Our goal is to buy some acreage in the woods with a cabin or build on it. |
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Originally Posted By BobbyHill: Why not just fire the crappy customers and keep the easy ones? It's gotta pay more than the elementary school although I understand the headaches are different. We've earned some loyal customers over the years but they are always looking for a better price. During COVID, dealerships were gouging $10k over sticker, GMs were making 6 figures a month, but they are still beating you up over a couple hundred bucks. Some of these drivers, you'll treat really well but it doesn't matter. They'll still try and steal your customer out from under you when they're dropping off. I'm charging $325 for Vegas and paying the driver $300. He'll tell the customer he'll do it for $275 if you call him direct.  Then he splits and the dealer starts calling me again. "Well, Bob was hauling them for $275'". Well, Bob's an idiot and probably crawled into a bottle.Everyone thinks that the brokers are worthless and raking it in. Well there's a reason you keep calling. Good drivers are hard to find and dealerships make it hard to collect the money they owe. Net 30 regularly turns into 60/90/210 because there's always a new girl, or we paid that on the last statement (no you didn't). Drivers rolling around with half a million or more in equipment act like if they get you $300 RFN, they can't afford to fill up. (Here comes my inner boomer) No mother fucker, I will not zelle or venmo you. Your a fucking adult. Figure out an adult way to receive payment. We prefer to mail you a company check, like you agreed to when you took the job, but if we must, we'll even deposit the money for you at a major bank. We get you're on the road. |
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Damn bro, that's some bullshit. Have been meaning to hit you up but haven't made the time. Been working as a transport broker for about 2.5 years now and even in my time frame I've seen this industry go to complete shit. If you need someone to take over your book.... Give me a call sometime this week, let's grab a drink |
"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over." - HST
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Originally Posted By Your1Savior: Damn bro, that's some bullshit. Have been meaning to hit you up but haven't made the time. Been working as a transport broker for about 2.5 years now and even in my time frame I've seen this industry go to complete shit. If you need someone to take over your book.... Give me a call sometime this week, let's grab a drink  See people. This is what I'm talking about. Give me a call tomorrow. You can have my empire of hurt. |
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Originally Posted By fike: @ARHank What type of contracts were you all using? When speaking with the lawyer, he asked about a contract as well. I told him there wasn't one. I told him that each job was it's own agreement and that for this job, not only was the service rendered, but the invoice had been paid in full. Which led me to believe they found my services to be satisfactory. I normally wouldn't ask a commercial customer to sign a contract the first time or two they called. Private parties I always required one. If a commercial customer called multiple times, I'd send them a contract. This was always a delicate dance. The people calling were usually sales managers. Sometimes salesmen or finance guys. Sometimes they'd sign it and send it back but I'm not sure what authority they had anyway. Often, they'd say they needed to give it to the GM, or their legal department. Then it was, "I haven't heard back", or similar excuses. If I pursisted too much, they'd just stop calling. I never sweated it too much. It's a federally controlled industry and felt pretty protected. I always met my legal requirements and if I thought a customer was bad news, I wouldn't work with them. Additionally, dealerships are required to carry a bond. If they ever tried to screw me, I had that recourse. In almost 15 years, I have never had a dealer try to come after me for damage. I've delt with plenty. I would facilitate the repairs and communicate with the drivers but never asked to pay. I would fork over some cash on occasion to appease my customer. Sometimes things would happen where the blame wasn't exactly clear and I would take care of it but I always made it clear that I was doing out of the goodness of my heart and was under no obligation. I've only had one legal battle. I had to sue a driver. That was more out of principle than anything else. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: With that particular customer, none. Which probably wasn't smart but may have worked in my favor. I was an employee at this dealership before going out on my own. I trusted everyone there at the beginning, and I just never thought to have them sign one. When speaking with the lawyer, he asked about a contract as well. I told him there wasn't one. I told him that each job was it's own agreement and that for this job, not only was the service rendered, but the invoice had been paid in full. Which led me to believe they found my services to be satisfactory. I normally wouldn't ask a commercial customer to sign a contract the first time or two they called. Private parties I always required one. If a commercial customer called multiple times, I'd send them a contract. This was always a delicate dance. The people calling were usually sales managers. Sometimes salesmen or finance guys. Sometimes they'd sign it and send it back but I'm not sure what authority they had anyway. Often, they'd say they needed to give it to the GM, or their legal department. Then it was, "I haven't heard back", or similar excuses. If I pursisted too much, they'd just stop calling. I never sweated it too much. It's a federally controlled industry and felt pretty protected. I always met my legal requirements and if I thought a customer was bad news, I wouldn't work with them. Additionally, dealerships are required to carry a bond. If they ever tried to screw me, I had that recourse. In almost 15 years, I have never had a dealer try to come after me for damage. I've delt with plenty. I would facilitate the repairs and communicate with the drivers but never asked to pay. I would fork over some cash on occasion to appease my customer. Sometimes things would happen where the blame wasn't exactly clear and I would take care of it but I always made it clear that I was doing out of the goodness of my heart and was under no obligation. I've only had one legal battle. I had to sue a driver. That was more out of principle than anything else. Originally Posted By ARHank: Originally Posted By fike: @ARHank What type of contracts were you all using? When speaking with the lawyer, he asked about a contract as well. I told him there wasn't one. I told him that each job was it's own agreement and that for this job, not only was the service rendered, but the invoice had been paid in full. Which led me to believe they found my services to be satisfactory. I normally wouldn't ask a commercial customer to sign a contract the first time or two they called. Private parties I always required one. If a commercial customer called multiple times, I'd send them a contract. This was always a delicate dance. The people calling were usually sales managers. Sometimes salesmen or finance guys. Sometimes they'd sign it and send it back but I'm not sure what authority they had anyway. Often, they'd say they needed to give it to the GM, or their legal department. Then it was, "I haven't heard back", or similar excuses. If I pursisted too much, they'd just stop calling. I never sweated it too much. It's a federally controlled industry and felt pretty protected. I always met my legal requirements and if I thought a customer was bad news, I wouldn't work with them. Additionally, dealerships are required to carry a bond. If they ever tried to screw me, I had that recourse. In almost 15 years, I have never had a dealer try to come after me for damage. I've delt with plenty. I would facilitate the repairs and communicate with the drivers but never asked to pay. I would fork over some cash on occasion to appease my customer. Sometimes things would happen where the blame wasn't exactly clear and I would take care of it but I always made it clear that I was doing out of the goodness of my heart and was under no obligation. I've only had one legal battle. I had to sue a driver. That was more out of principle than anything else. Thanks. I spent the better part of the last 10 years working with transportation contracts and claims. |
Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
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As a small business owner I try and explain to people that you’re trading your heath for money. It’s only gotten worse these last few year, rally since Covid. People just don’t care anymore. |
What is a democrat? Someone who wants everything you have, except for your job.
Politicians should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we could see their corporate sponsors.
Politicians should wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers so we could see their corporate sponsors.
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Originally Posted By ARHank: So, you think I'll get sued? Originally Posted By ARHank: Originally Posted By fike: Thanks. I spent the better part of the last 10 years working with transportation contracts and claims. Anybody can sue anybody, but generally speaking, the carrier is the liable party in a case of concealed damage. Assuming there isn’t language in communications (emails, etc) that implies that your brokerage is acting as a carrier, you shouldn’t have any problems maintaining that separation. I asked about a contract because more often than not, language specifying time or acceptance procedures will end any discussion or definitively push liability to the receiving party. Ultimately, if push were to come to shove, the dealership would have the burden of proving the damage was caused in transit and/or while loading or unloading. It gets even more messy for them when you start to review the industry standard presale inspection procedures. Are we supposed to believe that they never opened the hood which would have immediately revealed the radiator damage? You will be fine, but keep all conversations and documentation concerning this load for a minimum of two years. If there are any further communications going forward (which should all be done via email), the parties are “the dealership” (your customer) and “the dealership’s customer”. |
Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
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Originally Posted By fike: Anybody can sue anybody, but generally speaking, the carrier is the liable party in a case of concealed damage. Assuming there isn't language in communications (emails, etc) that implies that your brokerage is acting as a carrier, you shouldn't have any problems maintaining that separation. I asked about a contract because more often than not, language specifying time or acceptance procedures will end any discussion or definitively push liability to the receiving party. Ultimately, if push were to come to shove, the dealership would have the burden of proving the damage was caused in transit and/or while loading or unloading. It gets even more messy for them when you start to review the industry standard presale inspection procedures. Are we supposed to believe that they never opened the hood which would have immediately revealed the radiator damage? You will be fine, but keep all conversations and documentation concerning this load for a minimum of two years. If there are any further communications going forward (which should all be done via email), the parties are "the dealership" (your customer) and "the dealership's customer". I am confident that I have no liability but as they say, sometimes the process is the punishment. There has never been any confusion of my role in this. There has always been a clear delineation between me the broker and the motor carrier. The bill of lading has clear language about liability, which the customer signed. Although, he is now claiming that he did not. Our first communication from him was his disappointment in the driver's small truck and trailer. After he notified us of the damage, we told him that he signed for it, 12 days prior to complaining. Then he said that he wasn't there, his sister signed for it. Now he is claiming that his neighbor's kid signed for it. The funny part is, that this guy insisted on being at the dealership during pick up. So he signed at pick up. His second matching signature is right there on the BOL for the delivery as well. Additionally, the driver interacted with him at both ends. I'm not sure how he thinks he is going to get away with this. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: I am confident that I have no liability but as they say, sometimes the process is the punishment. There has never been any confusion of my role in this. There has always been a clear delineation between me the broker and the motor carrier. The bill of lading has clear language about liability, which the customer signed. Although, he is now claiming that he did not. Our first communication from him was his disappointment in the driver's small truck and trailer. After he notified us of the damage, we told him that he signed for it, 12 days prior to complaining. Then he said that he wasn't there, his sister signed for it. Now he is claiming that his neighbor's kid signed for it. The funny part is, that this guy insisted on being at the dealership during pick up. So he signed at pick up. His second matching signature is right there on the BOL for the delivery as well. Additionally, the driver interacted with him at both ends. I'm not sure how he thinks he is going to get away with this. Originally Posted By ARHank: Originally Posted By fike: Anybody can sue anybody, but generally speaking, the carrier is the liable party in a case of concealed damage. Assuming there isn't language in communications (emails, etc) that implies that your brokerage is acting as a carrier, you shouldn't have any problems maintaining that separation. I asked about a contract because more often than not, language specifying time or acceptance procedures will end any discussion or definitively push liability to the receiving party. Ultimately, if push were to come to shove, the dealership would have the burden of proving the damage was caused in transit and/or while loading or unloading. It gets even more messy for them when you start to review the industry standard presale inspection procedures. Are we supposed to believe that they never opened the hood which would have immediately revealed the radiator damage? You will be fine, but keep all conversations and documentation concerning this load for a minimum of two years. If there are any further communications going forward (which should all be done via email), the parties are "the dealership" (your customer) and "the dealership's customer". I am confident that I have no liability but as they say, sometimes the process is the punishment. There has never been any confusion of my role in this. There has always been a clear delineation between me the broker and the motor carrier. The bill of lading has clear language about liability, which the customer signed. Although, he is now claiming that he did not. Our first communication from him was his disappointment in the driver's small truck and trailer. After he notified us of the damage, we told him that he signed for it, 12 days prior to complaining. Then he said that he wasn't there, his sister signed for it. Now he is claiming that his neighbor's kid signed for it. The funny part is, that this guy insisted on being at the dealership during pick up. So he signed at pick up. His second matching signature is right there on the BOL for the delivery as well. Additionally, the driver interacted with him at both ends. I'm not sure how he thinks he is going to get away with this. I’m a bit confused now. Who is your customer? |
Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
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My customer is the dealership. They called me. They agreed to the price. They paid the invoice. Their customer purchased the vehicle in person at the dealership. I assume that he has two homes. He insisted on being at the dealership when the vehicle was being loaded on pick up. The driver took two days to make the 9.5 hour trip and met the customer at delivery. Often customers elect to have a vehicle transported. If the customer takes delivery at the dealership, they have to pay AZ tax. If it is shipped, they are supposed to pay the tax in their state. NM traditionally has a lower tax rate, if they pay it at all. |
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Originally Posted By ARHank: My customer is the dealership. They called me. They agreed to the price. They paid the invoice. Their customer purchased the vehicle in person at the dealership. I assume that he has two homes. He insisted on being at the dealership when the vehicle was being loaded on pick up. The driver took two days to make the 9.5 hour trip and met the customer at delivery. Often customers elect to have a vehicle transported. If the customer takes delivery at the dealership, they have to pay AZ tax. If it is shipped, they are supposed to pay the tax in their state. NM traditionally has a lower tax rate, if they pay it at all. Roger. After going back and rereading, it appears that the driver delivered the vehicle to the purchaser’s private residence. I assumed it was a dealership to dealership transfer with the purchaser picking up the vehicle at a later date. To be honest, I don’t have any experience in that type of chain of custody and liability (effectively final mile). |
Don't you tell me about galaxies! I walk them in the timeline.
