Holy Spirit: Direct or Mediated? (Page 2 of 2)
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: But what does it say? John 3:3 ESV [3] Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.3.ESV ~ Jesus, Son of Man Son of God 1 Peter 1:3-5 ESV [3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [4]to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, [5] who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. https://bible.com/bible/59/1pe.1.3-5.ESV ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ESV [14] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. [15] The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. [16] “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.2.14-16.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 8:16 ESV [16] The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,... https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.16.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 8:31-32 ESV [31] What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? [32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.31-32.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 10:16-17 NASB1995 [16] However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” [17] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.10.16-17.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 1 John 4:4 ESV [4] Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.4.4.ESV ~ John the Lord's Apostle God isn't against us, He is for us! The greater One lives in me. 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 ESV [5] Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! [6] I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. https://bible.com/bible/59/2co.13.5-6.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle If you're having trouble understanding, you could ask your priest. |
Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: I think you're talking to a chatbot, but still...  Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By 11boomboom: If you're having trouble understanding, you could ask your priest. I think you're talking to a chatbot, but still... It was a joke, but I think you probably already got it. 
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Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?
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The Word of God saved me. Psalms 18:30 NASB1995 [30] As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the Lord is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him. https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.18.30.NASB1995 ~ Psalm of David the servant of the LORD ... Proverbs 30:5-6 NASB1995 [5] Every word of God is tested; He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him. [6] Do not add to His words Or He will reprove you, and you will be proved a liar. https://bible.com/bible/100/pro.30.5-6.NASB1995 I believe the Apostle Paul was teaching, Timothy, his son in the faith and gospel message. 2 Timothy 3:15-17 NASB1995 [15] and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [16] All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; [17] so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.3.16-17.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 2 Peter 3:15-16 NASB1995 [15] and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, [16] as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. https://bible.com/bible/100/2pe.3.15-16.NASB1995 --- Acts 17:11 NASB1995 [11] Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so. https://bible.com/bible/100/act.17.11.NASB1995 1 John 2:20, 27 NASB1995 [20] But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. [27] As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him. https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.2.20-27.NASB1995 ~ John the Lord's Apostle Does the Holy Spirit’s internal witness and leading belong directly to every born-again believer by faith and obedience to the gospel, or must it be mediated through hierarchical sacraments and tradition? The witness and leading of the Holy Spirit is for every born-again believer; He is the indwelling presence of God. He gives them assurance, and guidance for living out God’s will and purpose. |
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Originally Posted By 11boomboom: If you're having trouble understanding, you could ask your priest. Originally Posted By 11boomboom: Originally Posted By Bishop3: But what does it say? John 3:3 ESV [3] Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.3.3.ESV ~ Jesus, Son of Man Son of God 1 Peter 1:3-5 ESV [3] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, [4]to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, [5] who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. https://bible.com/bible/59/1pe.1.3-5.ESV ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 ESV [14] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. [15] The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. [16] “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.2.14-16.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 8:16 ESV [16] The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,... https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.16.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 8:31-32 ESV [31] What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? [32] He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.8.31-32.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 10:16-17 NASB1995 [16] However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, “LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?” [17] So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.10.16-17.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 1 John 4:4 ESV [4] Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.4.4.ESV ~ John the Lord's Apostle God isn't against us, He is for us! The greater One lives in me. 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 ESV [5] Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! [6] I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. https://bible.com/bible/59/2co.13.5-6.ESV ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle If you're having trouble understanding, you could ask your priest. Have you considered Jesus? He is the mediator between God and men. Hebrews 3:1 NASB1995 [1] Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.3.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 2:5 NASB1995 [5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.2.5.NASB1995 This is good news! |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does the Holy Spirit's internal witness and leading belong directly to every born-again believer by faith and obedience to the gospel, or must it be mediated through hierarchical sacraments and tradition? Do you have a favorite Study Bible? |
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: I've found Study Bibles to be helpful. The scholars who work on them often have spent their lives immersed in the original languages, history and culture so can give many insights to the text. I have a small collection of Study Bibles for reference as sometimes one or another has special insights about a particular verse that might not be in the others. Sometimes even agricultural history helps explain why a verse about seeds being planted in different types of soil meant something different to a first century farmer than we might expect. My current favorite and first to check is the Ignatius Study Bible. Do you have a favorite Study Bible? Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does the Holy Spirit's internal witness and leading belong directly to every born-again believer by faith and obedience to the gospel, or must it be mediated through hierarchical sacraments and tradition? Do you have a favorite Study Bible? I have 3 study Bibles. My favorite is the Bible itself (various English translations) and will refer to some commentary from time to time. I do love reading/ studying the Bible for myself. I do have a small reference library on my shelf including an Interlinear Hebrew & Greek Bible with the literal English translation, Bible dictionaries, biblical encyclopedias etc. My intentions and focus are to take God at his Word (see 2 Timothy 2:15). To grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. For example; I've done a Bible study on 'the Seed'. Jesus is the Seed. He is the Word of God. The Holy Spirit reveals who Jesus is and I believe He is who He says He is. I want to honor the Word of God in my life. His Word is living and active. The Word of God saved me. Thank you Back to work now ---  , I'm at my place of employment.Eta: of course I'll pray and ask the Holy Spirit for any study helps. 2 Peter 3:18 NASB1995 [18] but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. https://bible.com/bible/100/2pe.3.18.NASB1995 ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Earlier in this thread, there were these posts: Originally Posted By monadh: Thank you for clarifying that you need nothing more than the inner voice that is speaking to you. That is what I had asked of you, and it fully explains why you have taken some positions, as vague and undefined as they are. Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The gift of the Holy Spirit. He has not left me. 'The Holy Spirit is my witness'. Thank you, Lord. You are Faithful and True. Love God, love people, shine, shine His Light Maranatha Thank you for clarifying that you need nothing more than the inner voice that is speaking to you. That is what I had asked of you, and it fully explains why you have taken some positions, as vague and undefined as they are. Then there is this: Originally Posted By Bishop3: I have 3 study Bibles. My favorite is the Bible itself (various English translations) and will refer to some commentary from time to time. I do love reading/ studying the Bible for myself. I do have a small reference library on my shelf including an Interlinear Hebrew & Greek Bible with the literal English translation, Bible dictionaries, biblical encyclopedias etc. My intentions and focus are to take God at his Word (see 2 Timothy 2:15). To grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The question I had for you earlier was regarding what you relied upon for increasing your understanding of Christianity, and you had replied that the Holy Spirit was your witness. Now you have said that you use 3 different study Bibles (Scofield's? Dake's? Oral Roberts' Study Bible?), some form of commentary, probably a Strong's Concordance for translation purposes, Bible dictionaries, and encyclopedias. Good for you trying to increase your understanding by using some of the tools, but which of them support your attacks on the necessity of the Sacraments and Tradition? Each of the study Bibles, regardless of which one you choose, relies upon some form of tradition in order to make the case for interpretations of scripture, so you could be swapping Tradition based on the teachings of the early Church Fathers for a tradition that the latest televangelist is advocating. If you are relying upon a Scofield Bible, that also would explain a lot. Personally, I am not trying to change your mind on anything you believe, but it would benefit you to stop trying to bolster your beliefs by attacking those of others here. Not every difference between your belief and the beliefs of others is a theological hill to die on. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Have you considered Jesus? He is the mediator between God and men. Hebrews 3:1 NASB1995 [1] Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.3.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 2:5 NASB1995 [5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.2.5.NASB1995 This is good news! ^^^Amen to this. We also believe all JESUS has said concerning the HOLY SPIRIT, His SPIRIT, the life giving SPIRIT of the living GOD. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: ^^^Amen to this. We also believe all JESUS has said concerning the HOLY SPIRIT, His SPIRIT, the life giving SPIRIT of the living GOD. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Have you considered Jesus? He is the mediator between God and men. Hebrews 3:1 NASB1995 [1] Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.3.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 2:5 NASB1995 [5] For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.2.5.NASB1995 This is good news! ^^^Amen to this. We also believe all JESUS has said concerning the HOLY SPIRIT, His SPIRIT, the life giving SPIRIT of the living GOD. So be it. You sir, are not dull of hearing! The Spirit of God and the Word agree. The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are sons of God. John 6:63 NASB1995 [63] It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. https://bible.com/bible/100/jhn.6.63.NASB1995 ~ Jesus, Son of Man Son of God Hebrews 4:12-14 NASB1995 [12] For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. [13] And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. [14] Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.4.12-14.NASB1995 2 Timothy 3:16 NASB1995 [16] All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.3.16.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Romans 8:16 NASB1995 [16] The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.8.16.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle You must be born again too see the Kingdom of God. The Holy Spirit is my witness. The Word of God saved me. Eta: Psalms 107:19-21 NASB1995 [19] Then they cried out to the LORD in their trouble; He saved them out of their distresses. [20] He sent His word and healed them, And delivered them from their destructions. [21] Let them give thanks to the LORD for His lovingkindness, And for His wonders to the sons of men! https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.107.19-21.NASB1995 Thank you, Jesus, you are LORD! |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Des2B: Bishop, do you think it's possible that you could be completely wrong in regards to your theology? Love always rejoices in the truth. Your question has reminded me of this word: 2 Timothy 2:11-13 NASB1995 [11] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; [12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; [13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.11-13.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Love always rejoices in the truth. Your question has reminded me of this word: 2 Timothy 2:11-13 NASB1995 [11] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; [12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; [13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.11-13.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle So that's a no then. Are you Pentacostal, by chance? |
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Galatians 2:20 NASB1995 [20] I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. https://bible.com/bible/100/gal.2.20.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Colossians 3:1-4 NASB1995 [1] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. [2] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. [3] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. [4] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. https://bible.com/bible/100/col.3.1-4.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' Jesus is a real man. |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Des2B: So that's a no then. Are you Pentacostal, by chance? Originally Posted By Des2B: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Love always rejoices in the truth. Your question has reminded me of this word: 2 Timothy 2:11-13 NASB1995 [11] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; [12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; [13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.11-13.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle So that's a no then. Are you Pentacostal, by chance? I am a child of God. All things are possible to them that believe. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3:All things are possible to them that believe. All things are possible except getting direct answers to direct questions. Bishop3, go ahead and post as you will. Your refusal to answer direct questions with anything other than direct answers shows you are not here to actually discuss anything that might contradict or even enhance your understanding. You are here to puff yourself up and nothing more. Carry on, then. |
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Originally Posted By monadh: All things are possible except getting direct answers to direct questions. Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By Bishop3:All things are possible to them that believe. All things are possible except getting direct answers to direct questions. The assertion that "baptism of the Holy Spirit" is a separate and distinct event from Christian Baptism, as opposed to the purpose of Christian Baptism, is effectively the working definition of Pentecostal. The problem often is, once you go down along that branch you tend to have the denial of theological lineage or tradition you see here, either out of ignorance or sophistry. We've had more than enough of these threads by now that I don't believe ignorance is much of an excuse, but pride can be a powerful mental block. So... meh. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Galatians 2:20 NASB1995 [20] I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. https://bible.com/bible/100/gal.2.20.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Colossians 3:1-4 NASB1995 [1] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. [2] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. [3] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. [4] When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory. https://bible.com/bible/100/col.3.1-4.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' Jesus is a real man. Yes my brother in the LORD JESUS. You prophesy the WORD of GOD to us in Truth, thank you. Some do not accept the WORD and do not believe the HOLY SPIRIT or what JESUS has said concerning the Comforter. But, it is written. You post the Holy WORD and blessed are you when men persecute you. Fight the good fight of faith as you have also encouraged me. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone:Yes my brother in the LORD JESUS. You prophesy the WORD of GOD to us in Truth, thank you. Some do not accept the WORD and do not believe the HOLY SPIRIT or what JESUS has said concerning the Comforter. But, it is written. You post the Holy WORD and blessed are you when men persecute you. Fight the good fight of faith as you have also encouraged me. What people have problems with is claiming the Holy Spirit is behind "personal interpretations." This consonant claiming that those who question the motives, claims, and interpretations of these posts is somehow going against the Word or God or failing to accept the Word of God is a FALSE CLAIM you have made repeatedly. We are questioning the man who is making the claims, not God. By twisting our words saying we are going against the "Word of God" for questioning a "man" shows you are willing to sacrifice truth. The formula is attack a Catholic, Orthodox, and or Protestant, then add a Bible Quote to the post, and then claim that anyone who disagrees is going against "Word of God." This is getting old. |
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Bible "Quotes" are accepted as the Word of God. What people have problems with is claiming the Holy Spirit is behind "personal interpretations." This consonant claiming that those who question the motives, claims, and interpretations of these posts is somehow going against the Word or God or failing to accept the Word of God is a FALSE CLAIM you have made repeatedly. We are questioning the man who is making the claims, not God. By twisting our words saying we are going against the "Word of God" for questioning a "man" shows you are willing to sacrifice truth. The formula is attack a Catholic, Orthodox, and or Protestant, then add a Bible Quote to the post, and then claim that anyone who disagrees is going against "Word of God." This is getting old. Whoever (or whatever) that is seems allergic to sacraments, which ought to tell us something. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Yes my brother in the LORD JESUS. You prophesy the WORD of GOD to us in Truth, thank you. Some do not accept the WORD and do not believe the HOLY SPIRIT or what JESUS has said concerning the Comforter. But, it is written. You post the Holy WORD and blessed are you when men persecute you. Fight the good fight of faith as you have also encouraged me. 'It is written' Romans 1:16-17 NASB1995 [16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. [17] For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.” https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.1.16-17.NASB1995 Hebrews 10:37-39 NASB1995 [37] FOR YET IN A VERY LITTLE WHILE, HE WHO IS COMING WILL COME, AND WILL NOT DELAY. [38] BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. [39] But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul. https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.10.37-39.NASB1995 His banner over us is Love (Yahweh Nissi). Be enCOURAGEd my brother, and press in! Maranatha |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS