Posted: 4/2/2025 11:28:17 AM EDT
 Eddie Kone: What's Dying in Jiu Jitsu, Jiu Jitsu History, and BJJ Code | The Mayn Idea Podcast #110 Is the sport side overtaking the martial art side? |
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Yes, but you are not required to follow it down that road and even if you only have sport places to train just like at a gamer speed steel match, you can do you. If you drop 90% full mags on the ground so you can game the required mag change and run a 10lb pistol with a non reciprocating dot on top, hair trigger custom 2011 in a holster that a swift wind could blow the gun out at 2 o clock that's on you for playing the game. Likewise, you can choose to not use positions in BJJ where you know you would get stomped the fuck out. Just like the gun example you will win less. Can your ego handle that? You can also find gyms or even guys at normal gyms that will play the game you want to play and work with them. |
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BJJ is very effective for martial arts contests with all sorts of rules, and is better than nothing in a street fight. It falls short when it doesn't deal as much with street fighting tactics such a biting, eye gouging, trachea tearing and deliberate neck/bone/joint breaking. Certainly it can be modified to include such things, but they aren't commonly taught as they aren't commonly used in the martial arts contests with all the rules. There are plenty of other martial arts that DO teach such things. It just depends on what someone wants to learn. BJJ is far better than sitting on a couch eating potato chips and would be helpful in a street fight, but so would plenty of other things. ETA: Greenspan made very good points. |
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It depends. Are we talking sport BJJ? Self defense BJJ? American Jiu Jitsu? A buddy of mine trains at a gracie sports gym. They dont roll until 2 stripe whites and cant learn any leg entanglements until brown. They hate it when I toe hold them. My gym/coach has a large and diverse background. He coaches BJJ and HS wrestling in addition to having blackbelts in a few striking disciplines. The content I consume mostly on youtube is MMA grappling focused. "can his hands touch my face" stuff. BJJ in america is doing the thing that every niche thing does in this country, assimilating into our zeitgeist and merging. Lots of Gi/NoGi and wrestling hybrid programs + Judo. There are already gyms converting over to American Jiu Jitsu. |
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Not in my gym... Attached File |
"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
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I don't pull guard. I may end up in guard, but that's going to happen sometimes. I enjoy the judo and wrestling aspects. If my training partners wanna pull guard, go for it. I leave my ego at the door. I'm training for a real fight, not sport. It's up to the individual to determine how and why they train, at least at my gym, but I also train under actual UFC and ONE fighters. I also train Dutch kickboxing at our gym which makes me well rounded. |
“When you have to shoot…shoot, don’t talk.” Tuco
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Originally Posted By billth777: It depends. Are we talking sport BJJ? Self defense BJJ? American Jiu Jitsu? Originally Posted By billth777: It depends. Are we talking sport BJJ? Self defense BJJ? American Jiu Jitsu? We are talking Brazilian JiuJitsu A buddy of mine trains at a gracie sports gym. They dont roll until 2 stripe whites and cant learn any leg entanglements until brown. They hate it when I toe hold them. I spend two days a week at a Gracie CTC and technically I dont think they are supposed to roll until they have completed the combatives material. While I think that might be a bit too long before allowing rolling, I also dont think allowing a brand new student to roll is smart either. Get a few weeks under your belt then start with some positional work then on to regular rolling. |
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Originally Posted By NotIssued: Well given the amount of guys on IG that butt scoot, vs actually taking down .... Yes. I wear steel toes, and you're gonna give me a meaningful chance at free hits on your lower extremities?  |
Primus Inter Derpus
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Originally Posted By Genin: BJJ is very effective for martial arts contests with all sorts of rules, and is better than nothing in a street fight. It falls short when it doesn't deal as much with street fighting tactics such a biting, eye gouging, trachea tearing and deliberate neck/bone/joint breaking. Certainly it can be modified to include such things, but they aren't commonly taught as they aren't commonly used in the martial arts contests with all the rules. There are plenty of other martial arts that DO teach such things. It just depends on what someone wants to learn. BJJ is far better than sitting on a couch eating potato chips and would be helpful in a street fight, but so would plenty of other things. ETA: Greenspan made very good points. Do you train? Have you trained BJJ, MMA, Muay Thai, or anything? It's obvious you don't have a deep BJJ background because your view of it is completely antagonistic to reality. I've been a martial artist since 1980 (started when I was 10), got into Muay Thai in 92, BJJ in 96. If you actually train BJJ, then you know when to go to the ground; and when NOT to go to the ground. Any good BJJ school will have a good standup game too, insofar as standup grappling. Then you do what most folks do who are just a little more than casual at training; and they'll typically tie in Muay Thai, or Boxing. If you also think that BJJ people don't know how to fight "without" rules, then again my friend, you've either not trained, or not trained very hard. At all. BJJ doesn't have to be "modified" to teach "street" dude.. Seriously, where did you get your PoV. Any training is better than none; and the effectiveness always come down to the person doing the fighting, no matter the art. |
Memento mori. Memento reload
(Don't let the young profile fool you: Been around here a minute/new life lease, new profile)
(Don't let the young profile fool you: Been around here a minute/new life lease, new profile)
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The sport aspect of BJJ is the reason why it has grown to the point it has and is so wide-spread. That's the game. There are lots of guys that only care about the sport aspect now. Originally Posted By Genin: BJJ is very effective for martial arts contests with all sorts of rules, and is better than nothing in a street fight. It falls short when it doesn't deal as much with street fighting tactics such a biting, eye gouging, trachea tearing and deliberate neck/bone/joint breaking. Certainly it can be modified to include such things, but they aren't commonly taught as they aren't commonly used in the martial arts contests with all the rules. There are plenty of other martial arts that DO teach such things. It just depends on what someone wants to learn. BJJ is far better than sitting on a couch eating potato chips and would be helpful in a street fight, but so would plenty of other things. ETA: Greenspan made very good points. Martial arts places that try to pretend they are combat oriented or are super deadly are frauds... If you aren't actively sparing and using techniques against a resisting person. You have absolutely no idea if your training will work against someone who's resisting and fighting. You are quite literally wasting your time training. If you want to actually fight; Boxing, Thai boxing, Wrestling, and BJJ are the only arts worth training. If you are a grown man wanting to learn self defense. Boxing and BJJ are the only two arts worth training full time. You can learn a few wrestling techniques (Take-downs and take-down defenses). And how to check kicks. If you want some effective kicks. A front kick (belly on down), oblique kick, and thai leg kick are really the only ones worth knowing for defensive purposes. That's all it takes. But for the most part if you just want to be in great shape and effectively defend yourself. Boxing/BJJ is as simple and effective as it gets. I've been working in law enforcement for a long time and I've trained various martial arts casually for 26ish years. Any LE agency that's up to speed in 2025 is almost exclusively teaching BJJ with some wrestling and Judo take-downs thrown in. And maybe a little bit of boxing or Thai boxing. But not so much striking because that looks bad in the public view. So if anyone who fights for a living is all training the same things. And any modern LE/Military group that has modern training is all training the same thing. Its safe to say we know precisely what's worth training and what isn't. |
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Originally Posted By ICEAGE: The sport aspect of BJJ is the reason why it has grown to the point it has and is so wide-spread. That's the game. There are lots of guys that only care about the sport aspect now. And thats where I think the issue lies. People are concerned about "growing" BJJ but that leads to it becoming a water-downed version of what it was; where what is often taught is what the rule set permits. This is why I think something like Olympic adoption (which I dont think would ever happen) would be one of the worst things you can do to BJJ. |
 Robert Drysdale On Why Carlson Gracie Is The Father Of The Jiu-Jitsu Lifestyle #BJJ |
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Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: And thats where I think the issue lies. People are concerned about "growing" BJJ but that leads to it becoming a water-downed version of what it was; where what is often taught is what the rule set permits. This is why I think something like Olympic adoption (which I dont think would ever happen) would be one of the worst things you can do to BJJ. Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By ICEAGE: The sport aspect of BJJ is the reason why it has grown to the point it has and is so wide-spread. That's the game. There are lots of guys that only care about the sport aspect now. Pray it does not become popular. The least that can happen is that it become watered down to the least common denominator. |
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Originally Posted By billth777: It depends. Are we talking sport BJJ? Self defense BJJ? American Jiu Jitsu? A buddy of mine trains at a gracie sports gym. They dont roll until 2 stripe whites and cant learn any leg entanglements until brown. They hate it when I toe hold them. My gym/coach has a large and diverse background. He coaches BJJ and HS wrestling in addition to having blackbelts in a few striking disciplines. The content I consume mostly on youtube is MMA grappling focused. "can his hands touch my face" stuff. BJJ in america is doing the thing that every niche thing does in this country, assimilating into our zeitgeist and merging. Lots of Gi/NoGi and wrestling hybrid programs + Judo. There are already gyms converting over to American Jiu Jitsu. No leg locks until brown belt is ignorant, out dated, and downright retarded. So is not rolling until 2 stripes. "Self defense" vs "sport" jiu jitsu really comes down to application and knowing when you can be hit. Some positions work better with punches, some without. But if someone is too dumb to know that hanging onto a leg in outside ashi is gonna get them knocked out, they probably deserve it. American Jiu Jitsu isn't real. It's all just jiu jitsu. Kenan called it American Jiu Jitsu mainly as a troll to the Brazilians. And it worked and it stuck for some people. Every gym is different. There's good ones and bad ones. |
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Originally Posted By CJ47: No leg locks until brown belt is ignorant, out dated, and downright retarded. So is not rolling until 2 stripes. "Self defense" vs "sport" jiu jitsu really comes down to application and knowing when you can be hit. Some positions work better with punches, some without. But if someone is too dumb to know that hanging onto a leg in outside ashi is gonna get them knocked out, they probably deserve it. American Jiu Jitsu isn't real. It's all just jiu jitsu. Kenan called it American Jiu Jitsu mainly as a troll to the Brazilians. And it worked and it stuck for some people. Every gym is different. There's good ones and bad ones. This is the truth. I’ve trained at four or five gyms now, my current one is by far the most technically proficient gym I have ever trained at. Which is apparent because we routinely have athletes going to regional ADCC and IBBJF competitions and winning Everyone benefits from having guys that push the limits in competitions |