Posted: 2/26/2026 1:33:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morgan321][Edited]
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There's yet another thread in GD (so it's filled with clueless zombies) and this place is dead, so I figured this was a good opportunity to inform people who have a brain and are interested in the topic. This has been a significant counterintelligence issue for many years. The issue is not basic flight training or even military training of basic/common TTPs, but rather when people share knowledge/experience that should not be shared. China has two goals in these pursuits: 1. gain knowledge about current western capabilities and tactics to better counter them. 2. expand their domestic technical expertise. So China partners with and supports companies (including state sponsored companies) who attract western expertise into these foreign jobs. The jobs are legal/permissible on paper, but once you're in the job you will eventually find yourself in questionable situations even if your intentions are noble. The Chinese support is frequently downplayed or outright hidden from the public view. The general M.O. is that you find one of these jobs where you live the glorious life of an ex-pat who gets paid well, lives in a place with a low cost of living, and instantly become highly-regarded because you are a former western military pilot who has training/skills/experience most of the people you are training can only dream of. You start out training students who come to your employer for legitimate training. The training might approach the bounds of reasonable, but the big issues arise when training is provided at a 3rd party location where there are no witnesses and no documentation(ie. evidence) of what is going on. The entire process is a real-world implementation of how intelligence sources are cultured and anybody with a security clearance has had training to recognize the process. Yet the process still works... I've been out of the game for a couple years now, but the military training/TTP will always be a big problem because there are huge numbers of people from countless nations involved. The test pilot issue has died down and wasn't very newsworthy because the number of people involved is very small and thus easier to manage. The most egregious offender company is TFASA (test flying academy of south africa). China provides significant money to the south african government for all manner of purposes and effectively shadow runs this company by being it's biggest source of funding. If you look at the "news" section of their website you'll see all their news deals with western governments "unfairly" interfering with TFASA's "legitimate" work. Their website makes claims such as they have "instructors from NATO nations who have been trained on the latest western military equipment and tactics" and other similar claims. The DOJ then references such website claims in legal proceedings and their website is changed and they feign ignorance. See this this DOJ press release for the most recent US action against TFASA just a month ago. See the photo below from TFASA's website. Note the nationality of the personnel as well as where they obtained their test pilot credentials from and keep in mind this is an ostensibly South African company. For those unfamiliar there are a lot of test pilot schools, but the worldwide recognized standard schools are the USN, USAF, British, and French military schools. There are a slew of civilian test pilot schools of widely varying reputations - National test pilot school is an excellent American civilian company in Mojave that offers test pilot training. Almost comedically, "international test pilot school" is an up and coming Canadian civilian school. Nations who cannot get their people into the big-4 schools pay to send pilots and engineers to one of these many civilian organizations that exist around the world. I think it's worth noting that the older guys went to National TPS while the younger guys did not. National is a civilian organization but you need a US visa to get there....  |
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| Posted it to Pacific islands thread https://www.airandspaceforces.com/retired-air-force-pilot-arrested-illegally-training-china/ |
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Originally Posted By esa17: Strange fruit comes to mind. A friend of mine used to instruct at the NTPS and he said the Chinese folks were always trying to get ahold of more information than they were allowed. Flight Safety saw the same thing, and has limited their ChiCom students as a result. |
Dave Funk
Past President and now a Board of Directors member Iowa Firearms Coalition.
Past President and now a Board of Directors member Iowa Firearms Coalition.
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As I posted in the GD thread. My small town in Georgia had so many student pilots from China they bought a hotel to house them. They also rented apartments and ran shuttle buses to keep the keep them showing up on time. They had a fleet of single and twin engine Diamond planes as well. Here is a link to a student fatality from a crash. He hit another plane on landing and killed everybody. The school closed during Covid. You can not tell me some of these pilots were not going to end up in the Chinese military . This was all done with the Feds blessing. Your government is selling you out. https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/3-dead-in-plane-crash-in-carroll-county/438896927/ |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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Originally Posted By whiskerz: As I posted in the GD thread. My small town in Georgia had so many student pilots from China they bought a hotel to house them. They also rented apartments and ran shuttle buses to keep the keep them showing up on time. They had a fleet of single and twin engine Diamond planes as well. Here is a link to a student fatality from a crash. He hit another plane on landing and killed everybody. The school closed during Covid. You can not tell me some of these pilots were not going to end up in the Chinese military . This was all done with the Feds blessing. Your government is selling you out. https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/3-dead-in-plane-crash-in-carroll-county/438896927/ This same thing is currently happening in Central Florida. The have busses and whole apartment complexes for them. You can see them walking to the grocery stores in groups of four. When I see them out at lunch, I've wondered if someday they will be bombing us from bases in South America. Those Chinese built ports come with a cost. |
| The schools that put these guys into the pipelines the help establish validity to their history need to be accountable also. |
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Non Solis radios sed Iovis fulmina mitto
Non Solis radios sed Iovis fulmina mitto
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Originally Posted By kbailey3: This same thing is currently happening in Central Florida. The have busses and whole apartment complexes for them. You can see them walking to the grocery stores in groups of four. When I see them out at lunch, I've wondered if someday they will be bombing us from bases in South America. Those Chinese built ports come with a cost. Originally Posted By kbailey3: Originally Posted By whiskerz: As I posted in the GD thread. My small town in Georgia had so many student pilots from China they bought a hotel to house them. They also rented apartments and ran shuttle buses to keep the keep them showing up on time. They had a fleet of single and twin engine Diamond planes as well. Here is a link to a student fatality from a crash. He hit another plane on landing and killed everybody. The school closed during Covid. You can not tell me some of these pilots were not going to end up in the Chinese military . This was all done with the Feds blessing. Your government is selling you out. https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/3-dead-in-plane-crash-in-carroll-county/438896927/ This same thing is currently happening in Central Florida. The have busses and whole apartment complexes for them. You can see them walking to the grocery stores in groups of four. When I see them out at lunch, I've wondered if someday they will be bombing us from bases in South America. Those Chinese built ports come with a cost. So if they are full time flight students starting at zero. going all the way to a base multi engine, Instrument rating. How long does a student spend at the school before going home and being replaced. The Newnan school had 100's of students at a time. I don't recall seeing any turbine time being taught there. How many pilots have they churned out in what goes back at least 20 years? |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.
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There’s a huge difference between basic civilian flight training and what the OP is about. The American south and southwest is unusually good for flight training thanks to good weather, ATC coverage, and more airports than nearly anywhere else in the world. Civilian flight training can be obtained many places worldwide, why not let some of that money roll into America? |
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Originally Posted By Morgan321: There’s a huge difference between basic civilian flight training and what the OP is about. The American south and southwest is unusually good for flight training thanks to good weather, ATC coverage, and more airports than nearly anywhere else in the world. Civilian flight training can be obtained many places worldwide, why not let some of that money roll into America? Sure, let some of that money come to America... as long as we remember that that foreign civilian flight training was used against us. The 9/11 attackers were trained in FL, one of them at one of the airports I fly out of. To the OP's point, those guys and gals that train foreign military pilots abroad need to have the lesson hammered home painfully. |
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Originally Posted By Morgan321: There’s a huge difference between basic civilian flight training and what the OP is about. The American south and southwest is unusually good for flight training thanks to good weather, ATC coverage, and more airports than nearly anywhere else in the world. Civilian flight training can be obtained many places worldwide, why not let some of that money roll into America? If these pilots were all going to fly airlines or cargo I would not care. My opinion is that some quantity of these pilots getting the basics here are going to end up as Chinese military . The basics for pilots are pretty much the same no matter where you end up. |
RIP Jeff Reed. Tennessee Squire, Ga. Carry member, NRA,Non-puking 72 ounce drinker 2 of 6 Norcal call sign, Forgotten.