Posted: 9/22/2025 10:22:40 PM EDT
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So, family member wants to buy a this bolt action rifle, but also saw a pistol that they wanted, and wants to get that also. They are planning on buying the rifle one day, than waiting a few days for their paycheck before buying the other. Another family member told them not to, as that would get them flagged for the ATF if they buy more than 1 gun in a 10 day period. I know you can get flagged if you buy 2 or more pistols/handguns within a 5 day period. But is there anything about buying a rifle and handgun within a 10 day period? I'd just assume my other family member is wrong, but curiosity got the better of me. |
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I was at a gun store when the customer asked that. The person behind the counter asked the owner of the store and they suggested doing it a different day. I do not know if they "knew" something, had seen problems getting multiple things approved or they were just living by this urban myth. This was a good high-volume gunstore. Maybe someone who is AFT or an FFL can chime in with something concrete. |
| No point in worrying about that stuff. I don't think I ever heard from anyone that ever got contacted after a multiple handgun form. The only people I'm aware of that got reached out to did purchases of over 10 guns. Think we've had a couple people here who bought a shit ton of lowers get reached out to. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By Wandering_minstrel: So, family member wants to buy a this bolt action rifle, but also saw a pistol that they wanted, and wants to get that also. They are planning on buying the rifle one day, than waiting a few days for their paycheck before buying the other. Another family member told them not to, as that would get them flagged for the ATF if they buy more than 1 gun in a 10 day period. I know you can get flagged if you buy 2 or more pistols/handguns within a 5 day period. But is there anything about buying a rifle and handgun within a 10 day period? I'd just assume my other family member is wrong, but curiosity got the better of me. A buyer isn't "flagged", but the sale is reported. Federally, dealers are required to report the sale of more than one handgun to the same buyer within five of the dealers business days. FFL's in TX, NM, AZ and CA also have to report multiple sales of "Certain Rifles" those that are semiautomatic, centerfire, caliber greater than .22 and accept a detachable magazine. I complete and submit about a dozen of those multiple sale reports every month. Only twice in seventeen years has ATF contacted the buyer. One was for a guy who bought ten or so Beretta pistols over a two month period while he was out of the country, picking them up when he returned. ATF just asked if he was a collector and never bothered him again. Some states may require FFL's to report sales differently than federal law requires. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: ......Think we've had a couple people here who bought a shit ton of lowers get reached out to. Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions.  Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions. Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: ......Think we've had a couple people here who bought a shit ton of lowers get reached out to. Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions. Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. We had one that didn't come from an inspection. I always assumed there was tracking or reporting at higher levels. It's one of the reasons I don't believe it is all as it seems when it comes to ATF tracking. I think they have ways to keep an eye on certain things. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions. Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/report-multiple-sale-or-other-disposition-certain-rifles-atf-form-331012/download Not an issue for OP in PA but here in TX multiple sales within five days by FFL must be reported to ATF. |
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Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: We had one that didn't come from an inspection. I always assumed there was tracking or reporting at higher levels. It's one of the reasons I don't believe it is all as it seems when it comes to ATF tracking. I think they have ways to keep an eye on certain things. How? ATF has no idea how many lowers, frames or receivers I transfer. Those aren't reported by anyone. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: A buyer isn't "flagged", but the sale is reported. Federally, dealers are required to report the sale of more than one handgun to the same buyer within five of the dealers business days. FFL's in TX, NM, AZ and CA also have to report multiple sales of "Certain Rifles" those that are semiautomatic, centerfire, caliber greater than .22 and accept a detachable magazine. I complete and submit about a dozen of those multiple sale reports every month. Only twice in seventeen years has ATF contacted the buyer. One was for a guy who bought ten or so Beretta pistols over a two month period while he was out of the country, picking them up when he returned. ATF just asked if he was a collector and never bothered him again. Some states may require FFL's to report sales differently than federal law requires. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By Wandering_minstrel: So, family member wants to buy a this bolt action rifle, but also saw a pistol that they wanted, and wants to get that also. They are planning on buying the rifle one day, than waiting a few days for their paycheck before buying the other. Another family member told them not to, as that would get them flagged for the ATF if they buy more than 1 gun in a 10 day period. I know you can get flagged if you buy 2 or more pistols/handguns within a 5 day period. But is there anything about buying a rifle and handgun within a 10 day period? I'd just assume my other family member is wrong, but curiosity got the better of me. A buyer isn't "flagged", but the sale is reported. Federally, dealers are required to report the sale of more than one handgun to the same buyer within five of the dealers business days. FFL's in TX, NM, AZ and CA also have to report multiple sales of "Certain Rifles" those that are semiautomatic, centerfire, caliber greater than .22 and accept a detachable magazine. I complete and submit about a dozen of those multiple sale reports every month. Only twice in seventeen years has ATF contacted the buyer. One was for a guy who bought ten or so Beretta pistols over a two month period while he was out of the country, picking them up when he returned. ATF just asked if he was a collector and never bothered him again. Some states may require FFL's to report sales differently than federal law requires. Isn't it great this ATF ruling is still in effect, it makes citizens of TX, NM, AZ and CA lesser people than the rest of the nation. |
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Two firearms on one form won't get you flagged. A dozen on a 4473 followed by two dozen on another 4473 two weeks later followed by another dozen a few weeks later will get you a knock on the door per one of my customers. Customer was divorced, not remarried, and then his ex died. He retired with his full pension and went shopping to celebrate. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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Originally Posted By AR15Texan: Isn't it great this ATF ruling is still in effect, it makes citizens of TX, NM, AZ and CA lesser people than the rest of the nation. Once they cross the Rubicon and infringe a right that shall not be infringed, does it really matter if they don't violate everyone's human rights equally? |
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Originally Posted By Bubbles: Two firearms on one form won't get you flagged. A dozen on a 4473 followed by two dozen on another 4473 two weeks later followed by another dozen a few weeks later will get you a knock on the door per one of my customers. Customer was divorced, not remarried, and then his ex died. He retired with his full pension and went shopping to celebrate. Its not the firearms on the 4473, its the handguns on the Multiple Sale Report. A buyer could buy 87 dozen lowers and a dozen shotguns every day and ATF wouldn't know unless the dealer had a compliance inspection. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By Wandering_minstrel: Another family member told them not to, as that would get them flagged for the ATF if they buy more than 1 gun in a 10 day period. Originally Posted By Wandering_minstrel: Another family member told them not to, as that would get them flagged for the ATF if they buy more than 1 gun in a 10 day period. Originally Posted By mike4eva: I was at a gun store when the customer asked that. The person behind the counter asked the owner of the store and they suggested doing it a different day. Structuring your purchases to avoid reporting is a dumb idea. An FFL suggesting it is an even dumber idea. Dumb FFL is obviously too dumb to also know an IOI can spot structuring during an inspection. |
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I have transferred up to seven guns on one 4473 in the past. On the most recent 4473 they have space for three on the front on the ones that were the previous generation if they had space for five which was in the back. If you run out of space for guns on the 4473 form you do not need to do multiple 4473 forms there is an official extension or addendum form. Some dealers and some people prefer not to put more than one pistol on a 4473 or transfer because more than one pistol does generate a additional form and requires local law enforcement notification. I think there's also something about more than one pistol within a one week period. Possibly even if it's at different locations although who would have a way of tracking that. I know for example at Cabela's that can be problem. Say for example if I buy one pistol at Cabela's on the south side of town and then I go buy another different pistol at Bass pro on the north side of town their systems are connected and they'll freak out a little bit if it's within a week and they're new and or don't know what they're doing. |
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Originally Posted By TSH77769: ....Some dealers and some people prefer not to put more than one pistol on a 4473 or transfer because more than one pistol does generate a additional form and requires local law enforcement notification. Originally Posted By TSH77769: ....Some dealers and some people prefer not to put more than one pistol on a 4473 or transfer because more than one pistol does generate a additional form and requires local law enforcement notification. It's not the number of handguns on a form, its the number of handguns transferred by that dealer to that customer in any five business days. Splitting pistols on two different 4473's doesn't avoid the multiple sale form. I think there's also something about more than one pistol within a one week period. More than one handgun to the same buyer in any five days the dealer is open for business. Possibly even if it's at different locations although who would have a way of tracking that. Not required by law. Every location must have a separate FFL. You could buy one pistol from each Academy location in DFW and no multiple sale form is submitted because each store has a separate FFL. I know for example at Cabela's that can be problem. Say for example if I buy one pistol at Cabela's on the south side of town and then I go buy another different pistol at Bass pro on the north side of town their systems are connected and they'll freak out a little bit if it's within a week and they're new and or don't know what they're doing. If they freak out have them read the instructions.  |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
| I've purchased 10+ at once many times, never heard anything about it. Even with the multiple handgun ones. |
Seriously, a tractor dealer from Possum Trot, KY has to explain this to you, a lawyer? - JPL
WTB: Glock 17 gen 2. SN CAF 895
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always look good for the crowd.
WTB: Glock 17 gen 2. SN CAF 895
Win if you can, lose if you must, but always look good for the crowd.
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Originally Posted By AR15Texan: Isn't it great this ATF ruling is still in effect, it makes citizens of TX, NM, AZ and CA lesser people than the rest of the nation. It's not an ATF ruling, it's a Barack Hussein Osama era thing 3310.4 is a result of the guns they lost in the F&F op, Obama admin clamped down on it in response |
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Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions. Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. Originally Posted By DogtownTom: Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: ......Think we've had a couple people here who bought a shit ton of lowers get reached out to. Only handguns are reported as a multiple sale. Any FFL reporting lowers or other types of firearms didn't read the instructions. Back around 2010 or so, an Arfcommer referred a friend to me to transfer a hundred AR lowers. No multiple sale report, but at my next compliance inspection the IOI saw five pages of the same firearm going to the same guy. Yeah. I think they sent him a letter telling him he needed to understand what dealing without a license meant. So as a FFL you dont have a requirement to do anything when someone makes that kind of purchase ? I assumed you'd have to report things that are "off"...genuine question. |
Life isn't fair, and it gets harder the dumber you act. FAIL-SAFE
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Originally Posted By AKJEFF: So as a FFL you dont have a requirement to do anything when someone makes that kind of purchase ? I assumed you'd have to report things that are "off"...genuine question.  No, there is no requirement to report "off" behavior. It doesn't mean I won't depending on how things go down but it's not required. |
Heller II - Challenging DC's bans on semi-automatic rifles, large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, and its onerous and expensive handgun registration process. http://www.HellerFoundation.org/
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