Double Hose Adventure..... (Page 1 of 3)
Posted: 7/1/2017 4:26:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bap][Edited]
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I have been wanting to try double hose regs for a while now.
Didn't know anyone who owned one. Downside of being a solo diver is, well, you don't know many divers. I was in the process of doubling a set of Norris galvanized LP72's of early 70's vintage with an old school Sherwood Selpac double yoke manifold. I get healthy fills on these singly, so at 3k their 87's. The center post lends itself to ideal DH can mounting, provided you spin the side post around. Otherwise, the it will interfere with one of the can's horns. It looks strange but is really practical, allowing you to use a traditional single hose for redundancy and to run modern luxuries such as bc inflater and SPG  .
I picked up a Nemrod Snark Silver III in mint condition. I realized that there maybe an issue with placement on my back but went ahead anyway. Absolutely gorgeous piece of equipment. Overhauled it, even made a IP gauge specifically for it [metric fittings]. Well, big problems with placement being too high and difficulty breathing so it was either get new plate/wing or sell it. Found someone really interested in it, so sold it for a healthy profit. Proceeds went to DA Aqua-Master, 1960-61 vintage. Decent shape, barring some dudes name and old school telephone number [alpha-numeric] electro pencilled on it. Picked up an overhaul kit and the next adventure begins. Placement with my doubles is just about ideal, I could go an inch lower but that will take some changing [drill holes in bp]. Next problem is the wing. My OMS is center mount. Not going to work long term as the inflator collides with can. Purchased a used Hollis wing with left shoulder inflater mount and it works great. I looked at going with a horse collar as I don't need very much lift, but then I remembered how much I hated diving with one when I started in the early 80's. I had about 10 hours on it doing shore dives getting used to it and practising retrieval and purging, etc. I recently made a 90' dive off Jupiter as I felt comfortable with it. Had a blast. I have not done any modern improvements to it yet. I do see getting HPR next though to improve venturi and cracking effort. Even so, being a little stiff it's not that bad. I think it is due to the huge 1-1/2” inlet at the mouth piece. I don't see myself parting with it any time soon. The adventure continues. Shore dive 
Nemrod 
Nemrod with OMS wing showing manifold 
DA Aqua-Master post dive with OMS wing 
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I was certified in '71 using Aqualung and White Stag dual and single hose regs respectively. Buddy-breathing off a dual hose reg is a bit different than what most are accustomed to. 
I still have my White Stag reg somewhere. |
USMC 1977-1987
In life, there should be one goal: At the end of it, go sliding into your grave, completely worn out and used up, yelling "Holy Shit! What a wild ride THAT was!"
In life, there should be one goal: At the end of it, go sliding into your grave, completely worn out and used up, yelling "Holy Shit! What a wild ride THAT was!"
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Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Very cool. I've been on the fence about picking up a Kraken for OC photography work. This will make it balanced, using readily available service parts. It will give you the ports you need as well. Add the HPR and you have a unit that will rival most new single hose regulators out there. Can placement still applies, to both Kraken and older units. Oh, and I just picked up two more LP72's, galvanized with Thermo valves for $50. 1983 and 1970 vintage. A quick tumble and I will send them off for hydro with confidence. These will be for singles use with the DAAM |
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Originally Posted By DasRonin:
Back in 1969 I certified on single and double hose regulators. A lead belt was pretty low tech.
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A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.
- Alexander Hamilton
- Alexander Hamilton
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Saga continues.....
I have been searching for one of the older back packs for singles diving that were thin plasiic with SS band but did not find one priced reasonably....but I did find a Zeagle Express Tech for $50 which was less than what I had found the other units at. A bargain no less. This Zeagle unit lends itself to DH by the fact that there is no plate, just a cordura wrapped piece of plastic. This is important as far as DH goes, there cannot be much, if any gap between the tank and your back...also you can position it as high or as low as you want due to the freely connected lower waist straps [straps are passed through a loop, no retention]. Positioning the regulator as low as you can is ideal if not critical in DH. I added a crotch strap using some 2" soft luggage webbing I saved, made a loop with a brass grommet. I bungied on 4lbs of lead [3/2 wetsuit], strapped it to one of my newly acquired lp72's that I boosted to 2800 (80cf) and went to my go-to spot for testing. All went well, wait, actually it went great. No SPG at the moment though. I know my route and consumption, so no worries there. Adding a SPG in this config requires a banjo fitting, so I wanted to testing first prior to dumping more $$ into it as is. 
The oral inflator leaked a little during the dive....already fixed two beers later post dive. This bcd is getting further testing over the weekend with my single hose units and hp117's. 
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A double hose rig (or maybe a rebreather) is on my eventual acquire list.
Both have benefits for underwater photo and video stuff. Rebreather is best of course, but damn they're spendy. |
Talking about Scientology in the religion forum would be like talking about parachutes in the SCUBA forum. - DK-Prof
NorCal callsign - Aperture
NorCal callsign - Aperture
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Originally Posted By Zack3g:
A double hose rig (or maybe a rebreather) is on my eventual acquire list. Both have benefits for underwater photo and video stuff. Rebreather is best of course, but damn they're spendy. |
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Rebreathers are currently out of reach for me, but definitely are of interest. I eyeball them every time I am my LDS.
Regulators in general is where my main equipment interests lie. I have owned and rebuilt quite a few: old stuff, new, too include AGA FFM. Tank Valves: well I have been looking at optimizing my mounting options now that I know the Zeagle works fine. Older valves were what I'd call micro, newer K's are taller, accommodating mk10's etc. Pic below shows the difference. The re-branded old Sherwood [Healthways] will lower center by 1" compared to the K [Thermo]. The DAAM can has a knotch built into it to allow for the low clearance. The J will lower it by 1/2", but I will gain the reserve feature which negates the need for SPG. In ther process of rebuilding both older valves. Also notice the bent stem on the K....this is why I don't use a mallet on the valve like of shops do. I picked up 2 Thermo's from a recent tank deal.....not my doing. The downside to using older valves that they are red flags when you try to get your tank filled...."this tank is old as f*(k!" My shop knows me so they will do it....just to get me out of their shop. I have gotten fills on my lp72 doubles with Selpac manifold after much deliberation, only to be told "your good..get out of hear and go dive" when I try to pay. 
I also up'ed the IP beyond what the manual calls for prior to my last dive and that made a noticeable improvement. I have since added weight pouches to the waist belt. Off to dive it this PM. |
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OK, wasn't really looking for more, but in my travels last weekend I picked up a set of PST LP40's and a Healthways SCUBA regulator for $45.
The soft goods on the reg are toast, as to be expected. I have parts inbound as I type. In the back of my mind, I had wanted one of these as these are simple but decent breathers compared to the DAAM. The tanks are in amazing shape considering they were stored in a barn, in Florida for a number of years. Born on '73. I was going to send them off [individually] for hydro after a light tumble with the epoxy exterior on, but got impatient and peeled it off. The manifold took a header at some point in it's life and is slightly bent. I ain't touching it. It will go back on as is after I service it and invert the yoke. In my dive locker I had a set of SS vintage bands that are a match to this set so the galvanized set will go. I should have the twins ready to go next week and the regulator ready this weekend. 
The manifold is a Scubapro [re-branded Sherwood] and the PST tanks were either Healtways or Scubapro. For those that are not aware, Healtways became Scubapro. |
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Regulator is overhauled and tested...got about 3 hours on it this weekend. Test dive on Friday at BHB for an hour. Went yesterday to Commercial and did 3rd reef with doubles (250 yard walk + 700 yard swim one way). Bad day to go very strong North current, I didn't spend much time out at the 3rd.
It preformed a lot better than I expected, considering it is a single stage like the USD Mistral. I would even say that it is on par with the DAAM. I would assume that is because I am using NOS rubber diaphragm, where I am using a reproduced silicone one on the Healthways. I am also using the USD divers hoses on it....this is a benefit with multiple cans, most if not all have 1" horns and the USD divers hoses are about the best design there is with the large 1-1/2" opening at the inhalation/exhaust. Hose needs to be removed post dive for cleaning, so only one set is necessary...unless I pick up a set of the yellow ones
The more digging I do, I have realized why the tank valves have not reserve, the Healthways has a restrictor in the regulator that, well, restricts breathing at about 300 psi letting you know you be done with the dive. Thus no need for a J valve. Can't wait to get the twins back and dive it as intended. 
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Twins are back.
Like I thought, the positioning of the reg is perfect. Breathing got even better. I had to SWAG the tanks' buoyancy characteristics, and was close. I was about 1 - 1-1/2 lbs too heavy. Still manageable with proper breathing. Very liberating not to have any of the add-ons; no bc, no spg. I'll admit I hummed the theme music to JYC Explorer show a time or two during the dive. It's amazing how close you can get to critters with a DH, got very close to an Eagle Ray twice. I said to myself that I would not be getting into the vintage aspect of it [all the equipment] and now find myself browsing vintage masks
Pistol thrown in for arfcom scalenesses. 
It would be more appropriate to throw in a 19-3 as period piece I suppose. |
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Hey OP - awesome vintage stuff!
I understand current equipment and rebreathers - what is the value to an old DH rig other than nostalgia? It is still open circuit, right? So if a guy can dive doubles for more bottom time, or rebreathers for stealth, what is the use case for a DH rig? |
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Originally Posted By sendit14:
Hey OP - awesome vintage stuff! I understand current equipment and rebreathers - what is the value to an old DH rig other than nostalgia? It is still open circuit, right? So if a guy can dive doubles for more bottom time, or rebreathers for stealth, what is the use case for a DH rig? The double hose setups are said to be great for underwater photo/video work. They're too damn rich for my blood at this point though.
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Talking about Scientology in the religion forum would be like talking about parachutes in the SCUBA forum. - DK-Prof
NorCal callsign - Aperture
NorCal callsign - Aperture
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Originally Posted By sendit14:
Hey OP - awesome vintage stuff! I understand current equipment and rebreathers - what is the value to an old DH rig other than nostalgia? It is still open circuit, right? So if a guy can dive doubles for more bottom time, or rebreathers for stealth, what is the use case for a DH rig? For me, it's using and experimenting with the equipment. I play with a lot of different regulators. There is a case to be made for DH regs in cold water -- the don't freeze up. As mentioned above, photogs dig them as the exhaust is behind you. And yes, you can get really close to critters - this I can confirm. I never thought much of drag, but it is definitely evident to me now. Even with the tiny doubles, I can haul ass. On my last dive I zipped past a couple of divers with ease and one pointing to me a wtf look. I find myself dialling in my weight even more so now by not using a bcd. In the early days of SCUBA, one had to know their weight to planned depth. Basically, you needed to be nominally buoyant at the surface and depending on your weights/plan, you may have to knife dive your way to a depth that your exposure suit looses some buoyancy. This is not an exclusive thing for me though. Still love my modern stuff. Will be doing the USS Rankin once this bitch Irma rolls past [in my bunker now]. Here are some pics of DH divers on the Doria shortly after it sunk.... 
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Originally Posted By bap:
Thanks For me, it's using and experimenting with the equipment. I play with a lot of different regulators. There is a case to be made for DH regs in cold water -- the don't freeze up. As mentioned above, photogs dig them as the exhaust is behind you. And yes, you can get really close to critters - this I can confirm. I never thought much of drag, but it is definitely evident to me now. Even with the tiny doubles, I can haul ass. On my last dive I zipped past a couple of divers with ease and one pointing to me a wtf look. I find myself dialling in my weight even more so now by not using a bcd. In the early days of SCUBA, one had to know their weight to planned depth. Basically, you needed to be nominally buoyant at the surface and depending on your weights/plan, you may have to knife dive your way to a depth that your exposure suit looses some buoyancy. This is not an exclusive thing for me though. Still love my modern stuff. Will be doing the USS Rankin once this bitch Irma rolls past [in my bunker now]. Here are some pics of DH divers on the Doria shortly after it sunk.... https://s26.postimg.org/3s6i2ru5l/Diver_and_porthole.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/9f2v08wo9/divers_on_promenade.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/4vqmeqesp/Diver_Lifeboat.jpg Originally Posted By bap:
Originally Posted By sendit14:
Hey OP - awesome vintage stuff! I understand current equipment and rebreathers - what is the value to an old DH rig other than nostalgia? It is still open circuit, right? So if a guy can dive doubles for more bottom time, or rebreathers for stealth, what is the use case for a DH rig? For me, it's using and experimenting with the equipment. I play with a lot of different regulators. There is a case to be made for DH regs in cold water -- the don't freeze up. As mentioned above, photogs dig them as the exhaust is behind you. And yes, you can get really close to critters - this I can confirm. I never thought much of drag, but it is definitely evident to me now. Even with the tiny doubles, I can haul ass. On my last dive I zipped past a couple of divers with ease and one pointing to me a wtf look. I find myself dialling in my weight even more so now by not using a bcd. In the early days of SCUBA, one had to know their weight to planned depth. Basically, you needed to be nominally buoyant at the surface and depending on your weights/plan, you may have to knife dive your way to a depth that your exposure suit looses some buoyancy. This is not an exclusive thing for me though. Still love my modern stuff. Will be doing the USS Rankin once this bitch Irma rolls past [in my bunker now]. Here are some pics of DH divers on the Doria shortly after it sunk.... https://s26.postimg.org/3s6i2ru5l/Diver_and_porthole.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/9f2v08wo9/divers_on_promenade.jpg https://s26.postimg.org/4vqmeqesp/Diver_Lifeboat.jpg |
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Surprised I still have power....
Looking at a few more pics and reading the Life magazine story of the dive on the Doria I mentioned and see this...I am pretty sure this guy modified an ammo belt to hold lead. This was '56, so not a whole lot out there to buy. It has a jet-o-sen clasp added to it. M1 Garand belt? 
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Well, one can never have to much dive gear right?
Picked up a new production, vintage style rubber mask for my hose cutting adventures from vintagedoublehose.com. Got only to try it briefly today as conditions sucked with 2-3' viz. Also did a weight check, got lead down to 8lbs with a 5mm. Also picked up a USD Mistral, 1956-59 vintage. Hoses are toast, but now I have the excuse to get the yellow hoses I have been wanting, you know, to keep it original. The Mistral, a single stage reg, was the favoured reg for the Cousteau team as it is very simple and reliable. new mask 
Mistral 
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Took a mandatory break after an undeserved hit, but had been working on stuff while I wait it out.
Got a couple of hours in the past couple of weeks with more to come. Just picked up this odd MKVI and a Star BM today. Fitting as they are from about the same time period. The MkVI is unusual due to the pneumatic yoke. There was a fatality blamed on this unit and a lawsuit won. Product discontinued long ago. Might dive it as configured or convert to regular yoke. I wiill put the guts of my BA in this second as the chrome is pristine. The SPG will be put to use as well. Not bad for $15
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Originally Posted By Marie:
@bap What's the story behind your undeserved hit? If you don't mind sharing... Within ndl, hour SI. Normal slow ascents, extended safety stop on second dive. Dehydration not an issue. Type ll cns, the one you don't want. Symptoms didn't show until drive home. Don't know how I made it there. Heli'ed to wrong hospital, cluster f. to the max. Over 7 hours in chamber (2 rides). Have some residual issues in left hand, but after testing still got cleared to dive thankfully. Could have been a lot worse. Always knew it was possible, but never thought it would really happen to me, especially when looking back when I was younger and doing dives that I should have been bent doing. Time to dial it back a bit for me. |
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Logged about 3 hrs this weekend. One dive with modern single hose (modern to me) at the Euro Jax and a second dive with my new favourite rig..the LP45's with the Healthways SCUBA at BHB.
Vis has been not so great recently near shore, so I was in for a treat at BHB with about 40' or so pre HT. Just after tying off bouy and entering the spooky side of the park. I always have this side to myself for about an hour. 
Heading back in from North side.... no BCD, no spg. 
Saw some of my little buddies: morays, and this ever sneaky Goldspotted Eel 
And, like clockwork Spotted Eagle Rays...here's one with a cuda. The camera is deceptive as it is a cheapo action cam, so things look very far away, when actually I could have reached out and pinched the cuda's tail 
Hoping for decent conditions this weekend...looks iffy though. |
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Love your thread, OP. DHs really are great for photographers. Fewer bubbles get in your way, and as others have mentioned, the critters seem less spooked by them. In general, exhalation is quite easy with them, depending on your position, of course.
You certainly have been digging up some nostalgic pieces of equipment, although as you said, that really wasn’t your original intention. Sort of makes me wish I had held on to my Swimmaster Trieste-J DH from 1969. Interestingly, the first stage of that regulator was the same as on their Titan-II-J (IIRC) single hose regulator, so I bought a single hose 2nd stage and converted it over to a single hose regulator and used it for years after. |
A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one.
- Alexander Hamilton
- Alexander Hamilton
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Thanks.
You know when things get a little carried away when I know where I can buy another twin set of lp45s, SCUBA reg, and a Jet-Air locally. I haven't run across a Trieste. The closest I have seen was a diy mating of a Titan with reserve and a DAM can. The can was Duracoated black. The unit was beautiful....and balanced. Random pic of a Swimmaster for anyone else curious. 
My first reg set was a single hose Swimmaster mr12. I was not certified yet, 14 I think, in 78 or 79. Did OW in 82. My father worked in a shipyard and a newly fitted salvage boat (converted shrimper) was in their yard. The boat was bound for Truk to pull as many screws as they could. Their permit was revoked at the last minute, and equipment was liquidated. They had a chamber too. Knowing I was a diver wanna be, he got me a complete set of gear...yellow seam tape wetsuit and all. Also included were the makings of a low pressure compressor, the pump from USN aircraft...I remember the label on it. Don't know what happened to that...I think my brother ran off with it. |
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I had a US Divers Royal Aquamaster... no bubbles in your face
you may notice some issues with deep dives or technical work (upside down etc...)... like getting a mouth full of water...
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“Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake..." - George Orwell, 1984
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Originally Posted By heron163:
I had a US Divers Royal Aquamaster... no bubbles in your face
you may notice some issues with deep dives or technical work (upside down etc...)... like getting a mouth full of water... However, I do clear prior to doing anything strenuous to be sure I got all the water out. On your back it will really want to free flow if you let it. Head down, a little stiff. Nothing that cannot be managed. Not proclaiming myself an expert on these, but I have numerous hours on the DAM and SCUBA. Have not had the SCUBA deep, but I have used the DAM at 90ish locally on slightrox. Obviously rec dives. Not a techie, so will not speak to dives much deeper. The Mistral (single stage like the SCUBA) was the favored DH reg for the early Cousteau teams, as it was simpler and not as fusy as the RAAM. I have heard stories from old Navy divers of the RAAM being too sensitive to drops resulting in free flows. This, to me though, sounds like a reg adjusted to 'hot'. |
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Not double hosey, but vintage. Found this today off Commercial
Mid to late 70s US Divers Atlantis 
There is a pile of tires that Irma must have discovered and thrown on the reef. Will go back next time and remove to the sand at a minimum. |
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Originally Posted By JohnnyC:
Very cool. I've been on the fence about picking up a Kraken for OC photography work. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
| Yep and 18 lb wing. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
| Nope, Luis sold me two sets of red hoses several months ago. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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Went out yesterday in spite of conditions, low vis and very surgy...bailed at 20min
I picked up a set of yellow hoses for the Mistral project a couple months ago as they are harder to get. Ordering more soft parts today to complete. I plan on adding a restrictor like the Healthways to eliminate the need for a reserve valve (banjo will not fit) 
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I found new j valves. Scibatoys has them but they are like 500!
They are also din convertible. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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Time to get this 62 yo reg back in service.
Parts came in for the Mistral. Easy job, hardest part was getting this o-ring in the inlet hole. Carved q-tip stem makes this easy.  Internals of a single stage, new silicone diaphragm and duckbill exhaust shown. I had the lever height to where I thought it was pretty close, then went to see if I could close the gap more...lol, NO. Back to where I had it the first time. I used a piece of scrap ss to mark the height initially, so now I have a tool for it.  Mounted to LP45 set. Hard to believe the original mouthpiece is in as good as shape as it is. I did give it a thorough cleaning and silicone treatment. Hose clamps are new reproductions. I replaced the original galvanized band to backpack bolts with SS today. 
I have a couple options already for the restrictor laid out. I will dive as is first, then play with it. Also able to mount a 24lb wing from a Zeagle Tech Exress to the pack. In the warmer water without wetsuit, I am not able to deal with the buoyancy swing safely. |
| Welp, went and stepped in it..... Bought a brand new Kraken. Ships in a week or so. If I like it, I'll use it for all my recreational diving which, admittedly, is few and far between. But I figured since I much prefer my rebreather, I might as well stick with the two-hoses approach to being a smug asshole. |
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Hah! I never liked rebel scum anyway.
I ended up buying the VDH plate as well, and one of those olde timey single pane oval masks, just for the hell of it. I dive one plate exclusively for twins, rec singles, and my rebreathers, and I'd go crazy having to readjust it for double hose all the time so I figured I might as well dedicate one rig to it and be done. Got a free SPG with it too. Not that I need one, I've got a boatload floating around, but it's always nice when they throw in something extra. I'm excited to get it in the water. I figure if nothing else, it's weird and "helpful" tropical DM's will be less inclined to dick with it. Saves having the, "touch my shit again and I will drown you," conversation. It'll definitely be a warm water rig only. Board shorts and a rash guard type of thing for sure. |
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Good choice on his plate, you wouldn't like it using singles on a standard plate. The hump in the standard plate places the tank and more importantly, the can too far from your back.
If you are talking about the Sea Hunt Forever mask, that's what I have been using. Good value and it is rubber. Pic is somewhere above. |
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Originally Posted By bap:
Took a mandatory break after an undeserved hit, but had been working on stuff while I wait it out. Got a couple of hours in the past couple of weeks with more to come. Just picked up this odd MKVI and a Star BM today. Fitting as they are from about the same time period. The MkVI is unusual due to the pneumatic yoke. There was a fatality blamed on this unit and a lawsuit won. Product discontinued long ago. Might dive it as configured or convert to regular yoke. I wiill put the guts of my BA in this second as the chrome is pristine. The SPG will be put to use as well. Not bad for $15
https://s26.postimg.cc/hk2mdh9y1/20180211_145658.jpg Do the s wing poppet upgrade. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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You're late
Already did. No need for a kit, have all the orings etc I need
Here |
| I put g-250v knobs on mine to lighten them a bit. The old knobs have no lightening cuts and a solid center. |
I suppose it is possible to convey more ignorance with less words, but I doubt I will ever see it in my lifetime.--Bohr Adam
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
If LAV promotes using the slide lock/release to chamber a round after a mag change, then he should be ignored.-MP0117
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I don't know if this video is of interest to anyone, but I remembered seeing this thread so I thought I would share it.
Youtube Video |