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Originally Posted By McGuy: I don't think there's a direct correlation between intelligence and "success." Where has that left me? 64 years old, a number of different "careers" out of work and out of money. Go figure. I can't. |
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Originally Posted By glocke12: I don't know what triple 9 is but Ive known some Mensa people in the past @glocke12 Mensa = top 2% for IQ (20 in a thousand) Triple 9 = top 0.1% for IQ (1 in a thousand) |
“The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.” - Margaret Thatcher
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Originally Posted By efxguy: Yeah this. I was blessed with a 160 IQ, and a terribly short attention span. Where has that left me? 64 years old, a number of different "careers" out of work and out of money. Go figure. I can't. Sounds like you are ADHD. Dyslexic? If so, the trick is to find a manager/boss/owner who will "keep calm and let YOU carry on!" I was blessed with that. And as a result, I made us very successful. But a lot of bosses would have fired me. IQ is just one piece of the puzzle. Well, maybe several pieces! |
KEEP CALM and let ME Carry On.
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I worked at an automotive parts plant for one of the big three manufacturers, this was 30+ years ago. There wasn’t a single person in the plant engineering department with an actual engineering degree. It was pointed out to me by a number of UAW workers that there were quite a few engineers working in the custodial department that were engineers, a couple having masters degrees. I really don’t blame them, the plant had twice as many as they need, so they only had to work four hours but were paid for eight (which was actually more than the salaried guys in plant engineering made). They then spent the rest of the day actually doing engineering work for someone else. You would think that a company like that would go bankrupt, and they did. |
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I'm in both (triple nine> intertel > Mensa) mostly I just send angry emails about why our BI teams code is wrong. just cause it runs doesn't mean it's right. the rest of the time I spend turning numbers in to charts. Oh and I spend a lot of time lately showing leadership how the AI agents in our databricks environment are confidently wrong most of the time. |
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I've seen a wild number of smart, good people who did well in their careers in their 20s and 30s shut it down in their 40s. Most often it's dropping from senior or managerial roles back to the basic IC roles they started their careers in. The people with VP titles in their 40s were aggressively mediocre performers and managers 10-15 years ago. |
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I am Mensa level, nowhere near triple 9 and have always been a chronic underachiever. One of the reasons I love my job is that I work with a bunch of guys that are way smarter than I am and have a ton more experience in our field (IT). I worked retail management for a lot of years and it sucks always being the smartest person in the room, so this has been a wonderful change. Plus, while I still have a lot of responsibility, I no longer have to manage people. |
Can't believe I actually said "scrotum lady" out loud. - Agent Funky
Zero to DeeJ in about 5 posts. - Troutman84
Zero to DeeJ in about 5 posts. - Troutman84
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I used to know a guy named Henry. He specialized in Datsun/Nissan 280Zs and had a place called Ace Foreign Auto Salvage behind the old K-Mart on Admiral Dr. in North Tulsa. Henry could speak on about any subject from theoretical physics to international economics It was my understanding he was a former college professor, or had some other position in higher academia He drank, and didn't make any attempts to hide it. He could still operate a salvage yard and foreign car repair shop with a couple of in house mechanic He sold out many years ago. What wasn't auctioned got crushed and some Mexicans bought what was left of his yard When Breaking Bad was playing, the salvage yard owner where they hid the RV reminded me of Henry, all he needed would be a scruffy beard |
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Originally Posted By xd341: Many levels of people can do menial jobs or at least jobs the outside observer would think are below the ability of an intelligent person. The problem with that is a lot of jobs we now consider "menial" actually aren't, there are just a lot more stupid people surviving to adulthood and some of them take those jobs. They aren't good at them at least not when compared to the actual masters, and if you get to hang out with actual masters of their craft you will find a larger than expected portion of them are actually highly intelligent. In my world, if you know a master tool maker, someone who has "go to guy" kinds of talent....it's usually rooted in at least 2nd sigma intelligence, if not 3rd. It's not really thought of as "engineer smart" but it is, it's just often far more practical in nature. I work with a "tool maker" at another company that is this way. He's is actually a trained gun smith but his ability to design and build mechanical automation would put a lot of controls and automation engineers to shame. and he looks like Yosemite Sam and talks a bit like Sling Blade. Which is just hilarious because he breaks every preconceived notion and assumption that the average person would have about him. Same is true for funny people. If you know a person that is known for their humor, chances are good they are more intelligent than average. The juice is takes to observe the world and find the humor is a cognitive cousin to abstract data manipulation and pattern recognition. Working with actual master craftsman is a small joy in life. Just being around people that are truly competent. Unfortunately it makes the dumb ones stand out and there are lot of them. |
I killed a bacon puppy. :(
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Originally Posted By TheSadPatriot: Being super smart makes working with average people harder. Originally Posted By GiveMeBackMyBullets: Work with several engineers who I believe are literal geniuses capable of changing the world. But they lack the social and managerial skills to do so, mostly social. Very very smart people, possibly on the spectrum, largely incapable of functioning in team environments and communicating effectively. Ran into that several times. Engineers who could figure out almost anything but were unable to to handle everyday social issues. Was always fun when you got two of those in the same room at the same time. My college roommate was incredibly smart. I graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering. He graduated with a degree in Mechanical Engineering. After graduation, he spent the next several decades as the custodian at a local church. Didn't work as a mechanical engineer until his 50s. |
WAR DAMN EAGLE!!!!!!
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I know a bunch of really smart dudes on the FD. Several attorneys, guys that could’ve gone to med school, etc. I also know some real dumb ones. 
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The posts made on this forum are purely my private opinion and don’t represent any employer or entity I am professionally associated with.
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The smartest person I have ever known worked in an Amazon call center for a decade. Before that he worked at a Quiznos when he dropped out of college. He is a corporate guy for Amazon now so they did realize what they had. I think he is just under a VP level. But he started in bum fuck nowhere ND answering the phone at a call center for $10/hr. My oldest friend is definitely on the spectrum, scarry smart, as a kid he had special math classes at the high school and played 5 musical instruments exceptionally well. He dropped out of college and serviced coffee equipment in Seattle for a long time. He is a stay at home Dad now. I am the dumb one of my friends group in highschool. I have a Masters degree and spent my career so far in energy research. Probably why I suffer from imposter syndrome so much, people I have known my whole life way smarter than me should be doing this. |
How do you do?
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Dunno about Mensa level, but I know a guy who's very intelligent. He has never had an ounce of ambition. His main job for years was a retail salesman at an electronic store selling TVs and computers. His father invented an electrical gizmo of some sort, patented it, and made a lot of $$$. My friend lived with his parents until they died, then he just inherited & stayed in the family home. He's about 70 now, and so overweight & diabetic he can barely get from the chair in the living room to the kitchen to the bathroom. I worry about him. I like him. He's friendly and funny and just the sweetest person - not in a gay way. He's always upbeat. Everyone likes him. He's just a lazy person. If he hadn't inherited his parents' home he might be living on the street. He could have been so much more. He is the ultimate example of the recent thread about adult children living with their parents well into adulthood. He never had to make his own way in life, so he didn't. The parents enabled him and he was happy being enabled. |
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Originally Posted By glock27bill: My brother in law was a MENSA member. He was lazy as fuck. "High IQ" and "Intelligent" are not necessarily the same thing. "Skills" and "Motivation" are likewise their own traits. In school he learned everything was easy. He got used to easy. |
| Guy who was the Editor in Chief of the Law Review at my Law School and graduated with top honors at the end of my First Year was sitting three seats ahead of me two years later when I was taking my Bar Exam in New York. It was his third try taking it. That was a sobering experience. I never learned of the reasons for his difficulty passing the Bar-he worked hard and was brilliant, a fantastic writer and a sharp legal mind. He wasn’t a John-John Kennedy by any means, nor a nepo baby. It was heart-breaking seeing him sitting for a third re-take. There but for the grace of God… |
| Guy who was the Editor in Chief of the Law Review at my Law School and graduated with top honors at the end of my First Year was sitting three seats ahead of me two years later when I was taking my Bar Exam in New York. It was his third try taking it. That was a sobering experience. I never learned of the reasons for his difficulty passing the Bar-he worked hard and was brilliant, a fantastic writer and a sharp legal mind. He wasn’t a John-John Kennedy by any means, nor a nepo baby. It was heart-breaking seeing him sitting for a third re-take. There but for the grace of God… |
| Maybe they know something you don't. For example, maybe they know that working harder for more money is just stress you don't need to buy crap you don't need. |
If someone ever says to you, "Can I connect you to Verizon Wireless Roadside Assistance?" They are making a direct threat on your life.
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: I'm of the opinion that we are all on the spectrum and it's a question of the degree that separates us. I know those same engineers and in general when you find someone who is really like, Savant, in how well they do their job there are almost always negatives to their personality. |
French Press coffee is best coffee.
| All I have is I worked with a guy who had a maybe 10 year old boy that he said was so smart he was going to be in Mensa. We all of course laughed him off since we knew him and his kid outside work and his kid was not smart by any means. He was a brat. Nothing intelligent came out of him. He was a kid. Nothing else. Coworker swore up and down his son was going to be so rich because he is so smart. I saw the kid tagged on social media about a year ago. Fat, nose ring, other piercings, worked at like a convenience store or fast food, couldn’t remember. Had a bunch of stupid shit like anti maga/ pro trans shit on his Facebook. Still stuck in their hometown of Joplin where they moved back to. I’m not even going to talk about the rest of the family but very similar results for all them. As for actual Mensa. Nope. Never met one |
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Originally Posted By xdoctor: Maybe they know something you don't. For example, maybe they know that working harder for more money is just stress you don't need to buy crap you don't need. Not a problem, as long as they don't collect welfare or other public assistance that shifts their burden onto the public. Or whine about how their menial jobs don't pay enough for them to buy a home, a car, etc. |
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Originally Posted By LeadBreakfast: This is true. Some smart people are dick heads because they're smarter than everyone else, some are smart enough to minimize how much they have to deal with everyone else. ETA I know a valedictorian who is pretty much always unemployed and has been for 20+ years. Absolute loser in real life. Some people don't have the personality type or drive to harness their abilities. Self-quoting to finish thoughts from before... There are a great many people here who are highly intelligent. There are also many who are in their own minds. Intelligence isn't always applicable, nor is it always easily measured. Case in point: a family member of mine went to an automotive school for a year. Already could fix cars but wanted the credentials, this was back in the 60s. Could fix any car, engine rebuilds top to bottom, no sweat. Most grease monkeys nowadays read a scanner and turn wrenches, actual machining gets sent elsewhere or just straight replaced, etc. Decided if he wanted to do it right he needed to be able to machine parts as well. Taught himself how to machine anything, people would sho2 up all the time with broken parts and say make me a new one - yep, let me find the correct barstock and I'll call when it is done. One year of formal post high school education. I graduated with an A/4.0 average back when they weren't padded to triple plus or whatever dumb bullshit it is now. Unsolicited offers from most of the Ivy League schools. Showed up still drunk to the ACT that earned those letters. Never took a formal IQ test. School was too easy, I didn't even know how to study because i had never studied, show up and take test, get A...that's all i knew. Went to stste comoetitiks and people asked how many hours i studied, i didnt, just showed up, and the fact that they did was mind blowing to me. Did it on top of every extracurricular i could be in. Knew I'd never be able to deal with Ivy league BS and dick sucking, wasn't pretentious enough. Went to a closer private on a good scholarship instead. Found out about liberal bias and how i was lining up to get fucked a year in, changed programs out of pre-med, went to a different program to get a decent job without toiling my life away for a department chair's whims and fancies. Graduated early, GTFO into the workforce. Went to grad school later and graduated top of class. No interest in returning, it's a means to an end. I know plenty of people making more, a lot more making less, but I'm working a normal work week, paid well above the average in my area, and get to live where I want and do what I want. Will retire with benniee most don't get. I'm 100% underachieving, financially, according to my education level but wouldn't chose differently as the variables that would change would also inherently change my quality of life, drastically, for the worse. At the end of the day, education without a means to apply it is just rote memorization. If you can make it work for you, whatever the level of educationyou have, you can be successful. Whether you're a lazy sack of shit or brilliant, if you can't harness what you know to better yourself then you're a loser. If you harness your knowledge to work smarter rather than harder, you're maybe lazy, definitely smarter. A guy makes 100k a year but wades. through endless shit, or makes 95k a year and does whatever they want...who is the smart guy? I choose door #2, you do you. |
Malcolm X was right about liberals.
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I once knew a physics professor (I don’t recall the collage he taught at now) but this guy was very intelligent. Almost so smart it was hard to carry a regular conversation with him. He looked like a wizard with long white hair and a white long beard. Many years ago his brother was dying so he moved to Kansas City to take care of him. He was a janitor at a mall that’s torn down now. But he worked as a mall janitor for YEARS. Just kept to himself and swept and cleaned the mall. |
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Income does have a fair correlation with IQ. ....but there are a lot more poor smart people than rich smart people (and most of the very wealthy are above average IQ....there are just not a lot of them) The reality is being smart isnt the same skill set as being able to deal with people and the realities of various systems that we have to live and work with in order to get by. The worlds best chef may not have the skills to run a restaurant. There is also the work ethic issue. All the smarts in the world wont do you any good if you dont have the will to do things. I think we all know some smart people who think they can outsmart the world and win big without much work. They are almost always wrong. I think we all know some smart people that were raised to think they were special and never learned how to overcome adverisity. That is a recipe for failure. This is one of the possible pitfalls of some gifted programs. I also think, while somewhat rare, we have all met smart people that are trying to live a ascetic life. They dont seem to have the need to much in the way of a materialistic life. These people tend to be mostly found in religion, the arts or some more altruistic professions (or education) but sometimes you run into these people in a low paying job and seemingly just fine. I think we have all met smart people that were not very functional when it comes to being around people. (probably on the spectrum) These folks do not often have the skills to rise in most systems or they cant stay in one long enough. Some smart people are insufferable. No one likes them and no one wants to be around them and it is even worse if they are an "Everyone I meet is an asshole" type as well. These people cant find the stability (eat the shit that one must in life) in order to rise or get through various training/schooling. We also all know some people who have a magnificent excuse for everything. You dont become successful on your excuses...even if you are a really smart person making them. There is also some criminals that are very smart. There comes a point for many of them that their past keeps them from getting good jobs. This is often where you find the rather successful ex con business owners that figure it out but most end up grinding it out. and so on....and so on.... I also think a lot of folks are lying about it (Memberships, IQ, SATs....) |
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Originally Posted By McGuy: I don't think there's a direct correlation between intelligence and "success." It’s virtually impossible to dissect our cognitive ability from socioeconomic status. There will be plenty of outliers. A guy with an IQ of 120 in finance or law may make more than a guy with an IQ of 140 who’s a physics professor. But the trend is is way better from an SES perspective to be the 120 or 140 guy than the 87 guy. Let alone lower. Highly intelligent people also often personally define success different than others. A 125 IQ guy may love being a pediatrician for 220K a year. A 160 IQ guy with a PhD in materials science may love making 150K a year heading a research lab at a hardcore university with millions in research grants. Yes, I know a couple of highly intelligent people that love being school teachers. Another that loves being a history professor. A few that have taken relatively lowly jobs that are clock punchers and enjoy their hobbies vs putting in 87 hour weeks as neurosurgeons, CEOs, lawyers, etc. for a lot more money. This thread will be full of people that only know smart people that “ain’t got no common sense, “have no social skills, “etc. Etc. Sure, there are plenty like that. But I see tons of average, little above average, little below average, and dumbasses that are complete fucktards non stop. I have spent most of my adult professional life around people were the average are about 125, and plenty in the 130s and up. Most of them are awesome with cool social lives, accomplishments, and hobbies. Plenty are charismatic, etc. I’m 99.5th percentile and yes, some that are beyond my league do seem weird. But I see tons of average weirdos as well. Who are the ten richest people in America? Musk, Bezos, Page, Dell, Brin, Zuckerberg, Ellison, Huang, Balmer, Buffett, - None of these guys are going to be under 140. Very likely most are 150 or more. The next ten? Let’s say minus those that inherited it- even though it’s a good chance they are pretty bright and the family money came from someone pretty damn bright- Charles Koch didn't knock out a BS, MS, and MS in ME, NE, and CE at MIT with an average intellect. Gates, Petterrfry, Bloomberg, Yass, Griffin, Schwarzmann, Johnson, Schmidt, Simons, Thiel.. I could go on- But the common definition of success is straight up owned by very smart people. It is wonderful for your life as well. As intelligence goes up, your chances of being in a motor vehicle accident, being a pedestrian struck by a motor vehicle, being assaulted, being stabbed, being shot, overdosing, accidentally ingesting a toxin, being morbidly obese, having complications from not complying with medical regimens, all go down. And yes, while family history plays a role, and intelligence goes down having a stroke, heart failure, being on dialysis, etc. goes up. |
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Originally Posted By Spiffums: I have a friend who is fucking brilliant! He has a PhD in Math and teaches Math. He bought a Jeep and bunch of tools. I had to put his running boards on for him. But I love him to death. I know a guy with an MS in Nuclear Engineering that maxed the MCAT and has an MD. He would fabricate his own crawlers, installed a turbocharger on his 3.6L Rubicon, and shoots 3-gun. A single anecdote is meaningless. |
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I got 139 when I was tested as a kid. Pretty sure it was the WAIC test but I’d have to dig up the paperwork. Despite 2 college degrees I spent my career working in automotive repair. Made a name for myself in diagnosis and the shop I spent the last half of my career at became the place to go when no one else could figure an issue out. We even had a couple dealerships that would send us cars they were stumped on if they couldn’t get the OEM to help them in a timely fashion. For me it was perfect because I get bored to death doing repetitive tasks. With cars every day was a new challenge. I found automotive diagnosis to be challenging enough to keep me interested while seldom frustrating. |
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Originally Posted By jt526: I'm in both (triple nine> intertel > Mensa) mostly I just send angry emails about why our BI teams code is wrong. just cause it runs doesn't mean it's right. the rest of the time I spend turning numbers in to charts. Oh and I spend a lot of time lately showing leadership how the AI agents in our databricks environment are confidently wrong most of the time. Have you ever gone to one of the Triple 9 Society conferences or Mensa gatherings? I went last year to a TNS conference. What was interesting was I met at least 3 lawyers there, but zero M,D.’s . |
| I did pretty good in high school, took all the AP classes. One girl really stood out as being super intelligent, she was unquestionably a class above, ended up being valedictorian, and raked in a staggering amount of scholarships. I ran into her about 7 years after HS, she was the front desk receptionist at a low rent assisted living facility that I stopped doing work for because it was such a shithole. It really bummed me out, she had such great potential, I hope she was at least happy. |
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Originally Posted By lb6r: That's me. I don't think I'm "smart" i analyze and process information differently. I have something to learn from everyone, reserve the right to be wrong and to change my mind. After my 21 yrs working for in aninstitution/cause i believed in very deeply i had a number of administrative issues (lying etc) that shattered it. Spent the last 2 yrs there building a business plan for a pool service company and teaching myself everything i need to know and working on my of time to build clients. 18 months ago i walked away at contract time. I now work less, for myself, with better pay. I have 4 certifications (and contacts and mentors in the service and supply side who help me when i don't know something- having intelligence and communication skills with integrity and a sense of purpose helps) and now do everything from service, to repairs to plumbing and electric past the breaker. Helps having a good robotics/ machine aptitude background installing automation, repairing cleaners and building pumps. I'm happy and get to read more and i work outside. Glad to hear it. Lots of people are not happy. I would hope at least some of the honest smart people are happy. |
Most anything can be fixed with sticks and rocks and string.
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Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: Have you ever gone to one of the Triple 9 Society conferences or Mensa gatherings? I went last year to a TNS conference. What was interesting was I met at least 3 lawyers there, but zero M,D.’s . Doctors dont have time for that shit. |
Learing Is Power!
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I've known several super smart people. One memorable fellow was a guy named Joe who owned Joe's Fish Camp. When I knew him, back in my teens, you could not distinguish him from your average, down and out river rat beer taster. He drank a lot of beer, tinkered with old stuff, fished and always had folks hanging out. He always had a beer and a grin. I found out later he'd made himself a multimillionaire selling a company he had built. Most of the time he'd be in stained britches, fixing some beat up freebie two stroke. I figure once he made enough to beer money for the rest of his life, he dropped out. Another is a former boss. An MD, who I last heard was running a medical imagery clinic. His. The man had the most vacuum-like memory of any human I've known. Perpetual, light grin on his face. I recall a big meeting where an equal, a PhD, tried some grandstanding BS to undercut him. This referenced another meeting three years prior. His defensive counter was recalling exact clarifications from exactly what was said those years prior. Crushed the guy. He walked out red faced after Doc's mic drop had the room smirking. |
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Originally Posted By Spiffums: I have a friend who is fucking brilliant! He has a PhD in Math and teaches Math. He bought a Jeep and bunch of tools. I had to put his running boards on for him. But I love him to death. Some smart people just are not into or interested in some things, working on vehicles is one of those things. Im not MENSA or TNS, but I am not dumb either and work in Pharma in basically an independent researcher role. Been there for 28 years so I have some intelligence level thats worth something I guess. I can and have built AR's from scratch because I am interested in firearms, I do my own setups on electric basses because I am interested in basses, and I taught myself some soldering and electronics skills over the past year so I can work on these 1/16th size RC tanks I got into that are always needing work. Working on vehicles or doing mods to vehicles, just not interested and would rather pay someone to do that stuff. Theres also the fact that I know there are people out there with more experience in that stuff and far less likely to make a mistake on 50k-60k vehicle than I am. |
It takes hatred to compulsively denigrate something.
That’s gayer than Elton John and George Michael dueting on their hit song Don’t Let Your Son Go Down On Me.
That’s gayer than Elton John and George Michael dueting on their hit song Don’t Let Your Son Go Down On Me.
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Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad: To make a long story short here, I have a friend who is a member of both Mensa and Triple 9 Society. She has told me about a few of her fellow smart club members who are doing menial jobs. I think she said one guy was a roofer / shingler. Last night, I re-met an old friend from about 40 years ago. He got a UPT slot in the late 1980’s or early 1990’s. Then he picked KC-135’s and got them. Then the big military draw down happened. So the Air Force like “absolved” him of his active duty service commitment. He got out, and became a mailman for the USPS. And he just recently retired from the USPS. I just casually mentioned the Triple 9 Society, and he replied with “Yeah, I let my membership lapse.” So do you know of some incredibly smart person who appears to be doing a job beneath their aptitude? I've met some other people with IQs north of 165 (which is the max score the mensa test can award) and they were all pretty troubled. Thoroughly on the spectrum, socially awkward, blind to a lot of simple practical things. Some found highly structured work that made use of their talents, some bounced between shitty jobs all their lives. I managed to fall into a line of work that forced me into a lot of socializing, challenges me with constant new stuff to learn and gives me coworkers who make lots of money because I'm smart (rather than getting pissy because I can easily do things that are difficult for them, been there before). My life could have taken a very different arc otherwise. |