Posted: 8/13/2025 8:46:20 AM EDT
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I have a relatively modest "home theater" setup that has served me well for about ten years. I am running 5 RSL CG3 speakers with two of their speedwoofer subs, and frankly for the size of the room, it sounds great and isn't obtrusive and in your face, which was the goal- decent sound for movies, but not anything that dominates the room visually. I have them running off of a denon X3200W. Due to the distance of the receiver to the TV (LG C4 77" that I recently purchased), I have one HDMI cable running from the receiver to the TV, and then everything else is plugged into the Denon, so pass through is being utilized. I have no plans to go to 8k, but effectively I am trying to somewhat futureproof my setup with the current TV, which is certainly capable of 4k at 120. The current denon however, is not...as it is HDMI 2.0 so I am limited to 4k @ 60. I have a new HDMI cable coming that is 2.1 and will run that from the receiver to the TV, just as it currently is, but I figure its time to upgrade the denon to something that will pass through 4k @120/8k. I have looked at some options including the 3800, but spending 1500 dollars at this point isn't something I'm in the mood to do, especially since I am only running smaller satellite style speakers that don't require the power that the 3800 can deliver. The 2800 and 1800 can be had under 1000. I am also open to other options, but generally speaking I have been very happy with Denon and would at least like to stick with that brand. Any feedback on any of these, or any other denon's that I may be overlooking would be appreciated! |
| How many 4k/8k sources do you have? My recent TV upgrade has caused me to switch my wiring scheme. I used to run all sources through the Denon, then one HDMI to the TV. Now I run my Xbox straight to the TV and use the Earc to link the TV to Denon. It's only one extra HDMI cable to the TV, and the TV has pass-through audio so sound is not compromised. |
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I'll recommend sticking with the Denons that suit your needs. Don't be afraid of a factory refurbished Denon x3800 as well, they're very good and come with a warranty. My previous receiver was a factory refurbished Denon X3700 from World Wide Stereo and it was perfect and served me well. I only stepped up to the 4800 to get additional channels for future plans, but I also intend on it being my last receiver for a decade. Denon themselves sell factory refurbished, or Accessories For Less (which are legit), and World Wide Stereo. Here's one at Accessories for less, for example, Factory Refurbished X3800 Just make sure they specify "Denon" Factory Refurbished and you'll be good to go. Just a suggestion if the 3800 is the one that will suit your needs most, but save a few bucks over new. I think the 2800 is probably just fine for you as well, but if you ever think you're going to need "more," might as well get it now. |
Become prompt critical.
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Thank you both for the replies. As of now, I only have 2 4k sources. I plan on adding a gaming console at some point, so that will put me at 3. I have to use 25' cables to make the run, and the tube would get tight with more than 2 cables. I thought about running things direct to the TV and then sending it to the receiver through e-arc to keep the same receiver, but frankly I don't mind upgrading to the new denons just to get some updated interfaces and overall better processing. The pass through feature would allow me a simpler cable run, even though its more expensive. Frankly, I don't know if I will notice any difference with anything I currently use the setup for by going to 4k @120 (mostly movies via the apple TV, and to my knowledge it still only pushes 60hz, but supposedly the forthcoming new one will), but at the same time, I don't mind getting everything updated so when it does make a difference, I'll be ready for it. I am actually reasonably confident my current 3200 was from accessories4less as a refurb, and its been perfect. I read a few negatives about them lately, but maybe I will revisit. 1200 for the 3800h isn't terrible, and their refurb 2800's look nice as well at 699. |
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I have two of the speedwoofer 10S. I do not have a ton of experience with home theaters, but everyone who has heard the system during a good movie with lossless audio (atmos etc) has been very impressed…especially when I tell them how much money I have into them, which relatively speaking is pretty damn low. For you denon audessey gurus, the system sounds the best to me with the audessey multEQ X settings off. With them on, the subs fire at too high of a frequency if I let the receiver decide while watching TV or normal programming. Bypassing that and setting the crossover manually, I can get it to sound ok. When watching a movie, I can have the multEQ X on and set to reference, turn the sub bypass off, and it sounds perfect. Do you guys change settings when watching movies? I’d love to find a setting to leave it at where everything sounds good…not a huge deal to adjust the receiver and flip a switch on the subs….but a little annoying 
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What are your current speaker settings? All speakers should be set to small so they will be crossovered with the subs. Crossover freq should be at least 80hz (if Audysey chose a lower freq). If Audysey set it higher, leave it. I'd guess that the CG3s would probably be better at 100. There is also an LFE filer- not sure why anyone would want to cut off some of the LFE content, but it is there. You shouldn't need to set the crossover at the sub if the AVR is setup properly. If a higher crossover makes dialog sound woofy, it sounds like your subs aren't set up properly. Those subs are know for being tight and accurate, so you should be able to dial in a great sound from all sources. Audysey flattens sub response too much for most people's taste. It sets it for reference level, but bass drops off faster with decreased volume. Dynamic EQ compensates for this, but it still sounds too weak. Most will increase the sub trim 4 to 6 db from where Audysey sets it. Just make sure that the trim is still negative. It should have been -10 to -11.5 from the initial Audysey setup. If it wasn't, adjust the gain on your subs and run Audysey again. Bypassing Multeq doesn't affect the crossover settings. It only turns off room correction EQ. If you think that your system sounds better with it off, you probably don't like the flat response that the EQ is trying to force. The Audysey app adds a lot more control and is well worth the $20. It allows you to curtain the EQ at whatever freq you want. This lets you take advantage of the room correction EQ at lower frequencies while letting your speakers sound like your speakers at higher freq. If you prefer EQ off, you would probably benefit from this. The app also allows you to adjust the target curve for any speaker. I used this to fatten up my subs, and the difference is noticeable. Edit: After re-reading your post, it sounds like your issue could simply be audio format since it sounds good with movies but not regular TV. What audio format are you passing from the TV to the AVR? Is it different from your movie source? Your TV should have some options (Auto, PCM, Bitstream, etc). You might want to experiment. I try to pass the raw signal (bitstream) to my AVR from the TV and let the AVR do the encoding. |
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Originally Posted By frankiebagadonuts: What are your current speaker settings? All speakers should be set to small so they will be crossovered with the subs. Crossover freq should be at least 80hz (if Audysey chose a lower freq). If Audysey set it higher, leave it. I'd guess that the CG3s would probably be better at 100. There is also an LFE filer- not sure why anyone would want to cut off some of the LFE content, but it is there. You shouldn't need to set the crossover at the sub if the AVR is setup properly. If a higher crossover makes dialog sound woofy, it sounds like your subs aren't set up properly. Those subs are know for being tight and accurate, so you should be able to dial in a great sound from all sources. Audysey flattens sub response too much for most people's taste. It sets it for reference level, but bass drops off faster with decreased volume. Dynamic EQ compensates for this, but it still sounds too weak. Most will increase the sub trim 4 to 6 db from where Audysey sets it. Just make sure that the trim is still negative. It should have been -10 to -11.5 from the initial Audysey setup. If it wasn't, adjust the gain on your subs and run Audysey again. Bypassing Multeq doesn't affect the crossover settings. It only turns off room correction EQ. If you think that your system sounds better with it off, you probably don't like the flat response that the EQ is trying to force. The Audysey app adds a lot more control and is well worth the $20. It allows you to curtain the EQ at whatever freq you want. This lets you take advantage of the room correction EQ at lower frequencies while letting your speakers sound like your speakers at higher freq. If you prefer EQ off, you would probably benefit from this. The app also allows you to adjust the target curve for any speaker. I used this to fatten up my subs, and the difference is noticeable. Edit: After re-reading your post, it sounds like your issue could simply be audio format since it sounds good with movies but not regular TV. What audio format are you passing from the TV to the AVR? Is it different from your movie source? Your TV should have some options (Auto, PCM, Bitstream, etc). You might want to experiment. I try to pass the raw signal (bitstream) to my AVR from the TV and let the AVR do the encoding. Speakers are set to small, crossover for the CG3's (R, L, RR, RL) are set to 100, center is a GC23 so thats set to 90- Audessey originally set them in the 60/80 range, so I had to manually adjust them. I think the issue is that I am using the Apple TV to do everything. I do have a 4k player, but 90% of the movies I watch now are streaming/purchased digitally and accessed through the apple TV. Of course, that is literally what it is designed to do being a central hub, but obviously that is going to have some limitations due to having to leave the settings the same on it for everything I do. I play my movies through it, I listen to music through it, watch TV through it.... The apple TV is currently set to decode the audio, and send it LPCM- the atmos option on the apple TV is turned on; ATMOS and other lossless audio are sent bitstream, and the receiver will thus do the decoding, but only for those higher quality formats. The rest is decoded, so for example, while watching TV in whatever audio format it is in...the receiver will display "multi in", and the very small "PCM" light is lit up. I currently have MultEQ XT set to reference and Dynamic EQ set to on; below are three scenarios showing how I use the apple TV the most: Anything with a lossless codec with those features on sounds fantastic with the receiver controlling the bass. While watching TV with those features on, and the receiver controlling the subs, male voices sound boomy and you can hear the sub hitting when there is male dialogue. Flipping the switch, I have both subs set to crossover around 100 hz or so, and it sounds better with anything that the apple TV has decoded and sent PCM. When I use apple tv to access amazon music with those features on, which is primarily what I do for music, the denon displays stereo, PCM light lit. Same thing, if I let the receiver decide how to control the bass, the mid range bass is noticeably more, but not terrible. HOWEVER, the subs aren't firing with the vocals, so this could just be a preference thing. But yes, I think my issue stems from trying to do everything through the same input. I was hoping a newer receiver would help overcome that. It may not. |
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I doubt that a new receiver will change anything, unless you hook something up differently. Does the Apple TV have a bitstream option? If so, I'd see if that fixes your issue. If the AVR does the decoding for everything, you may find a setting that works for all media. You also might try experimenting with the center crossover. While lowering the crossover from 80 to 60 would go against recommended convention, it would cut the higher bass frequencies from your subs which is what is making male voices sound woofy. |
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Originally Posted By frankiebagadonuts: I doubt that a new receiver will change anything, unless you hook something up differently. Does the Apple TV have a bitstream option? If so, I'd see if that fixes your issue. If the AVR does the decoding for everything, you may find a setting that works for all media. You also might try experimenting with the center crossover. While lowering the crossover from 80 to 60 would go against recommended convention, it would cut the higher bass frequencies from your subs which is what is making male voices sound woofy. I can send it bitstream, but that will disable atmos/lossless. Its a super goofy setup, the new forthcoming apple TV supposedly addresses this. I guess we will find out! I never thought about dropping the crossover on the center to address that. I will try it and see what happens- part of me is wondering if this is why audessey orignally set one of them that low when I originally ran the program................ I figured a new receiver wouldn't address it, but was somewhat hopeful the newer audessey would solve some issues. I don't really want to spend the money on dirac, but appreciate having that as an option. That being said, I have better things to spend 1200 on The good news is, if all I have to do is throw two levers when I watch a movie, not the end of the world. |
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After thinking on this more, I don't think that changing the center channel crossover will fix it. It would if all audio formats sounded bad, but that isn't the case. The only change is the audio format. I knew this yesterday, but I didn't have the explanation or answer. I was missing something. I woke up at 3 am this morning with a memory from a couple years ago of checking my center channel connection because it didn't have sound. Then everything fell into place like the reveal scene in Usual Suspects. Kobayashi, center channel, PCM, Multi In, 2 channel audio. And there it was- 2 channel audio. What relevance did the bad connection on my center channel have? I used to have my Xbox hooked to my AVR exactly like you have your Apple TV. Pass-through/ PCM out/ Multi In. We also used the Xbox as a media center streaming YouTube, Prime Video, Amazon Music, etc. You see, there was nothing wrong with my center channel connection. It was just that the source audio from YouTube was 2 channel. I hadn't noticed until I happened to be right in front of my center channel because my LCR speakers are all identical. The phantom center with 2 channel audio wasn't noticeably different than my center with 5.1 audio. Your's is. Your LR speakers are cross-overed at 100hz, which is the lower register of male dialog. You don't notice it with 2 channel music because males tend to sing in a higher register than they talk. The music probably drowns out the woofiness also. The solution? The real solution would be to address what is happening between your speakers and sub at 100hz. Your subs are great, so they shouldn't be causing this problem unless there is a setup issue. Did you change anything about the subs after Audysey? It could also simply be a room issue (reflections, room modes, etc) which is anything but simple. You may have a room mode at 100hz which would cause the sound to bloom at this frequency. Audysey can EQ some of this out, but it can only do so much. If you want an easy button, hit one of the "Movie, Game, Music" buttons on your AVR remote to see what audio format options are available. If the AVR will upconvert the 2 channel source to dolby or DTS, it would move the dialog from the LR speakers to the center. If this works you have a one button fix. You can use the Game button for dolby, and leave the Movie one as Multi In, and the Music as 2 channel. It remembers your last setting, so you can easily switch format with one button, depending on the source. Hope this works for you. |