Posted: 6/29/2026 9:06:59 PM EDT
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I was hoping to get some thoughts, critique and suggestions on a training program i put together for my 15 year old son. I am by no means an expert so was hoping to get any advice anyone cares to offer. Feel free to hurt my feelings. I am just in the learning phase. I did reach out to a few strength and conditioning coaches in the area and could pay for a program but i enjoy working on stuff like this and if i can save a few dollars and learn something useful i am all for it. I figure my son and i can try it for 12 weeks and see what the results are. Worse case i seek out a professional. My son is by no means a professional in his sport, although he wants to be, he is at a point where he is competing against adults 99% of the time and needs to get stronger. I am not 100% on the history of the Conjugate method but as i understand Louie Simmons of Westside Barbell adapted it from some Russian/Eastern European training methods. You have a max effort days and dynamic effort days. I think this program may actually be too much. For reference the percentages under weight are from his one rep max, the working weight on a few exercises has yet to be determined. I was thinking about running this program for about 10 weeks. My plan is to change the main movements after three weeks. The Zurcher squat will become a box squat, etc. Will make the 10th week a recovery week and probably just do some plyometrics without any weights then start back up again with some additional changes.    |
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Is this an example of a single week or is this every week with exercises swapped every 3 weeks? A max effort single every week is a surefire way to stifle progress. The rest times on some of those are too short if you're making him stick to them. I consider the timer a reminder, not a rule. It's ok to have short rest timers for a quick conditioning phase, maybe two weeks. It's not feasible to run those timers for 12 weeks if your goal is strength. What's your son's training history? What is the goal of the training? Is he brand new or is this just a 12 week program to mix it up. If it's the latter, it's fine. I just wouldn't do max singles every week. Maybe at the six week mark to re-test and he shouldn't be doing much else that week. There tons of free programs online. I've ran through a bunch of them in full. The Cube Method was the worst progress I ever made in a program, which is a Westside style without all the bands and chains, similar to yours. Just my opinion and experience, no offense to anyone that enjoys that style of training. It's awesome your kid is into lifting and that you're taking the effort to show him the ropes. |
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ok so "100%" isn't actually supposed to be a real 100% but based on a Training Max (TM) -most conjugate programs program 3 week waves and swap movements out based on those waves. -the TM is typically 90% -training that many days (3) back to back is not going to work well on these programs. The max effort is everybody's favorite day, but the real bitch is the dynamic day. If done correctly, this day will make check your ego fast. -if we are talking actual conjugate and not the 'conjugate tactical' mash-up version, this is entirely too little volume on accessories. Go read/watch some of Louie's philosophy on the 20%/80% rule. Westside and Elitefts has tons of articles on this. *edit* yeah your accessories are way off from how an actual conjugate would be programmed. OHP on max effort day as a secondary movement with a barbell would typically be a no-go. Another example is he would often use a total rep scheme for some accessories that would be done in high rep fashion... It was not uncommon for dudes to do 400 (yes) reps of glute ham raises, cable band pull-aparts, or similar movements. -The accessories should not just be 'programmed in', but aimed at hammering the weak points and main movers. -an example of a max effort wave-wk1 95%, wk2 100%, wk3 105%. a dynamic wave may look like this-wk1 53%, wk2 55%, wk3 57%. The % increase isn't set in stone and can vary by experience, strength, and individual recovery. -depending on his level, using fancy accommodating resistance and swapping out stuff every 3 weeks may not be necessary. If your son is a beginner he may be better off just sticking to the super basics and resetting the waves every 3 weeks with the new TM plugged in to adjust the weights. If basic mass and strength is needed you could just stick to the same main movements on max effort and dynamic effort day (IE benching/squatting 2x a week) and focus on swapping out accessories as he progress's to attack new weak points anyway check out westside barbell and elitefts' websites. |
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Appreciate the feedback. My plan was to swap out the main exercises in the max effort and dynamic day every three weeks. The supplemental exercises would change based upon weak points. My original understanding of the supplemental exercises was weak points of the body. Looks like my understanding was probably incorrect and those supplemental exercises are meant for the weak points of the lift. My son's goal is to get stronger and more athletic. He has been lifting the last two years but has focused more on hypertrophy. Push/pull/legs routine once a week. While he did get stronger his main focus was just looks. Originally Posted By Jarcese: Is this an example of a single week or is this every week with exercises swapped every 3 weeks? A max effort single every week is a surefire way to stifle progress. The rest times on some of those are too short if you're making him stick to them. I consider the timer a reminder, not a rule. It's ok to have short rest timers for a quick conditioning phase, maybe two weeks. It's not feasible to run those timers for 12 weeks if your goal is strength. What's your son's training history? What is the goal of the training? Is he brand new or is this just a 12 week program to mix it up. If it's the latter, it's fine. I just wouldn't do max singles every week. Maybe at the six week mark to re-test and he shouldn't be doing much else that week. There tons of free programs online. I've ran through a bunch of them in full. The Cube Method was the worst progress I ever made in a program, which is a Westside style without all the bands and chains, similar to yours. Just my opinion and experience, no offense to anyone that enjoys that style of training. It's awesome your kid is into lifting and that you're taking the effort to show him the ropes. |
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Appreciate the knowledge shared. I will keep looking into the program. Seems my understanding on quite a few points were off. I wasnt aware of the amount of accessory work needed/suggested by the program. Is the accessory work aimed at improving the weak points of the lift or the lifter? Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: ok so "100%" isn't actually supposed to be a real 100% but based on a Training Max (TM) -most conjugate programs program 3 week waves and swap movements out based on those waves. -the TM is typically 90% -training that many days (3) back to back is not going to work well on these programs. The max effort is everybody's favorite day, but the real bitch is the dynamic day. If done correctly, this day will make check your ego fast. -if we are talking actual conjugate and not the 'conjugate tactical' mash-up version, this is entirely too little volume on accessories. Go read/watch some of Louie's philosophy on the 20%/80% rule. Westside and Elitefts has tons of articles on this. *edit* yeah your accessories are way off from how an actual conjugate would be programmed. OHP on max effort day as a secondary movement with a barbell would typically be a no-go. Another example is he would often use a total rep scheme for some accessories that would be done in high rep fashion... It was not uncommon for dudes to do 400 (yes) reps of glute ham raises, cable band pull-aparts, or similar movements. -The accessories should not just be 'programmed in', but aimed at hammering the weak points and main movers. -an example of a max effort wave-wk1 95%, wk2 100%, wk3 105%. a dynamic wave may look like this-wk1 53%, wk2 55%, wk3 57%. The % increase isn't set in stone and can vary by experience, strength, and individual recovery. -depending on his level, using fancy accommodating resistance and swapping out stuff every 3 weeks may not be necessary. If your son is a beginner he may be better off just sticking to the super basics and resetting the waves every 3 weeks with the new TM plugged in to adjust the weights. If basic mass and strength is needed you could just stick to the same main movements on max effort and dynamic effort day (IE benching/squatting 2x a week) and focus on swapping out accessories as he progress's to attack new weak points anyway check out westside barbell and elitefts' websites. |
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everything is based off the lift for the specific lifter. If he sucks at locking out the bench, tri's get murdered. If his mid-section collapses during squatting, core gets punished. Rotating movements may or may not be wise depending on level of the lifter. The point of the max effort is to reveal the weak points of the lift. Dynamic is force production and technique re-enforcement. Accessories are for mass/weak points. basically, where do I suck at doing 'x'?... work on things to not suck at doing 'x' over 3 weeks, ramping up intensity at week 3, did 'x' improve? If yes-apply new TM and start over, finding new thing to suck at. If no, redo the wave while trying different things to not suck at 'x' Rotating movements isn't random-they are also done in a fashion to work on weak points. Again, if tri's are a CONSTANT weak point the lifter may drop doing traditional bench altogether and may focus on things like accommodating resistance, pin-press, board press, and close grip bench as a way to work the things that they suck at. A newer lifter will progress quickly and rotating too much could be counter productive. If they are progressing where they want to progress don't change it out too much. If it ain't broke don't fix it. |
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Sounds like a powerbuilding program would be more up his alley. It's powerlifting with more volume and less intensity than a strict powerlifting routine. A lot more glamour muscle work as well. He's going to make progress regardless of the any plan as long as he sticks to whatever program you give him. Always under shoot training maxes if you're estimating to start a program. It's easier to just add weight if the first few weeks are too easy than it is to try and hit prescribed numbers that burn you out or get you injured. |
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For a 15 year old, just put him on a proven program. Put him on a novice program for 8-12 weeks, then jump into something like Boring But Big. The recovery capacity of a teen is insane, so he can push it a bit. Fitting it around BJJ means you can just hammer the basics hard and call it a day. |
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Originally Posted By 89TSI: Appreciate the knowledge shared. I will keep looking into the program. Seems my understanding on quite a few points were off. I wasnt aware of the amount of accessory work needed/suggested by the program. Is the accessory work aimed at improving the weak points of the lift or the lifter? Originally Posted By 89TSI: Appreciate the knowledge shared. I will keep looking into the program. Seems my understanding on quite a few points were off. I wasnt aware of the amount of accessory work needed/suggested by the program. Is the accessory work aimed at improving the weak points of the lift or the lifter? Originally Posted By hoody2shoez: ok so "100%" isn't actually supposed to be a real 100% but based on a Training Max (TM) -most conjugate programs program 3 week waves and swap movements out based on those waves. -the TM is typically 90% -training that many days (3) back to back is not going to work well on these programs. The max effort is everybody's favorite day, but the real bitch is the dynamic day. If done correctly, this day will make check your ego fast. -if we are talking actual conjugate and not the 'conjugate tactical' mash-up version, this is entirely too little volume on accessories. Go read/watch some of Louie's philosophy on the 20%/80% rule. Westside and Elitefts has tons of articles on this. *edit* yeah your accessories are way off from how an actual conjugate would be programmed. OHP on max effort day as a secondary movement with a barbell would typically be a no-go. Another example is he would often use a total rep scheme for some accessories that would be done in high rep fashion... It was not uncommon for dudes to do 400 (yes) reps of glute ham raises, cable band pull-aparts, or similar movements. -The accessories should not just be 'programmed in', but aimed at hammering the weak points and main movers. -an example of a max effort wave-wk1 95%, wk2 100%, wk3 105%. a dynamic wave may look like this-wk1 53%, wk2 55%, wk3 57%. The % increase isn't set in stone and can vary by experience, strength, and individual recovery. -depending on his level, using fancy accommodating resistance and swapping out stuff every 3 weeks may not be necessary. If your son is a beginner he may be better off just sticking to the super basics and resetting the waves every 3 weeks with the new TM plugged in to adjust the weights. If basic mass and strength is needed you could just stick to the same main movements on max effort and dynamic effort day (IE benching/squatting 2x a week) and focus on swapping out accessories as he progress's to attack new weak points anyway check out westside barbell and elitefts' websites. Louie used partials and variations to work sticking points for advanced lifters. You really need to be moving big numbers to have to worry about it. It also keeps volume high enough to prevent detraining when peaking. Not an issue for a 15 year old for awhile. If he wants more volume after basic lifts, do it with stuff like chinups, pushups and core work. |
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Throw that stuff away for now. Bench Squat Deadlift Overhead press Pullups/chinups Hes 15. Build the basics Id also have him run more. Wind sprints and 5 miles+ For the wind sprints, go to a football field and have him sprint 100 yards full out. Then walk back. As soon as he gets to his starting point he sprints back. Do that 20 times twice a week. It should take less than 20 minutes |
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I greatly appreciate everyone's help and suggestions. My understanding of the Conjugate method is not where it needs to be and as multiple people have suggested i should stick with something more simple. Looks like the plan for now would be a 5/3/1 program. Seems pretty simple to me. Sticks with the basics and gives some measure to see if my son is getting stronger. Hope you all have a great 4th! |
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