Posted: 5/23/2025 9:25:00 AM EDT
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The BMW drivers of the aviation world. A NetJets pilot told me that after I was bitching about a Cirrus-induced cluster at some airport we were at. Attached File |
In America, the village idiots have organized.
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I met one of the factory pilots, who just happened to be a nice looking gal, at an air show years ago. A few weeks later, she brought a totally decked out model to my airport and we went for a demo flight. They are beautiful airplanes, but they are just enough to get a lot of people in trouble thus the need for a parachute. I can't afford what I really want, a TBM 960, so I don't own an airplane. If I need to go somewhere, I buy a first class ticket... |
"I will leave when I have your wounded." MAJ Kelly
You folks are showing your youth  Just like the Bonanza, particularly the V-tail Bonanza, was known as the "Doctor Killer", the Cirrus piston single has been known as the "Geek Killer" since at least the early 2010's, maybe earlier. Back in the Bonanza heyday, doctors seemed to be the relatively well-off demographic that bought a lot of Bonanzas but didn't do much more than pass the checkride and go haring off into hard IFR. Since the dot-com bubble of 2000, that demographic seems to have shifted towards relatively well-off, high-tech industry folks. That's the new money. The Cirrus aircraft have an undeniable technological slickness about them that attracts those folks. And they are just plain old nice aircraft. Hence the moniker "Geek Killer". When I was much younger I worked the edges of the medical field as an EMT and, sadly, have had a lot of exposure to doctors as caretaker for older relatives. My analysis of why the doctors were perishing is that, especially back when Bonanza's were in production, so many of them are dreamers, artists, and driven by passion. They are generally not technically or mechanically inclined. Medical school was rote memorization, flying was the same for them. Plus they were busy, important, successful people, doing important stuff, so how hard could piloting be? With respect to the geeks, I am one, big time  Aviation is a hobby and sometimes rises to the level of avocation (I am flying tours this summer  ). These folks tend to be very technically inclined, sometimes mechanically as well, hence perhaps it is more of a Dunning-Kruger effect in this demographic. And they are busy, important, successful people, so how hard could it be? These are the folks that never have to ask their autopilot "What are you doing, now?" But when task saturation hits, or George goes tango uniform, bad things start to happen.Note I use the term "relatively well-off", because real high net worth individuals (HNWI) are either flying their Honda Jet or CJ3, or being flown by someone else 
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Originally Posted By aa777888-2: You folks are showing your youth Just like the Bonanza, particularly the V-tail Bonanza, was known as the "Doctor Killer" I always heard it referred to as the Forked Tail Doctor Killer. |
It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt.
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Originally Posted By AA717driver: How much money does it take to own an airplane? ALL of it! I'm an A&P/IA. I will probably never make enough to comfortably afford my own plane. It's not the cost of the plane that's the issue. You can find older Mooneys, Cessnas, Pipers, etc., for $60K. It's the cost of parts that is the real killer. $1500 for a cylinder. $57 for a little metal plate that a gear downlock spring attaches to. $25K for an engine overhaul. $60K for a new engine. The list goes on... |
"You see? It's like I've always said; You can get more with a kind word and a two-by-four than you can with just a kind word." - Marcus Cole
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I had half of a PA23-250 Aztec. If it wasn't for my partner being an A&P/IA, ownership would have been a HELLUVA lot more spendy. A friend just bought a lightly used SR22. He's one of those guys that has old-family money, not interested in buying a jet (mostly because of insurance costs- he has a Citation X and Lear 35 type) and will do the regular training to stay up on things... but he is most assuredly a geek of the first order. I see a lot of people buying Cirrus' that I think to myself "There goes a future NTSB report". |
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Geeks. Guilty as charged. aa777888-2 hit the nail with the "relatively well off" analysis. I'm not current and flying any more, but the SR22T my FBO was managing became my instant preference for business trips and I ended up being responsible for about 10% of the hours that plane flew. They are very nice planes and hit a sweet spot cost and time wise between commercial and private jets -- the first time I paid for a Beech Premier my reaction was "WTF, I could fly the Cirrus almost four round trips at this price!" -- and that sweet spot really makes the plane sell itself to the right class of customer, which unfortunately tends to overlap a lot with the BMW crowd. |
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Originally Posted By aa777888-2: You folks are showing your youth Just like the Bonanza, particularly the V-tail Bonanza, was known as the "Doctor Killer", the Cirrus piston single has been known as the "Geek Killer" since at least the early 2010's, maybe earlier. Back in the Bonanza heyday, doctors seemed to be the relatively well-off demographic that bought a lot of Bonanzas but didn't do much more than pass the checkride and go haring off into hard IFR. Since the dot-com bubble of 2000, that demographic seems to have shifted towards relatively well-off, high-tech industry folks. That's the new money. The Cirrus aircraft have an undeniable technological slickness about them that attracts those folks. And they are just plain old nice aircraft. Hence the moniker "Geek Killer". When I was much younger I worked the edges of the medical field as an EMT and, sadly, have had a lot of exposure to doctors as caretaker for older relatives. My analysis of why the doctors were perishing is that, especially back when Bonanza's were in production, so many of them are dreamers, artists, and driven by passion. They are generally not technically or mechanically inclined. Medical school was rote memorization, flying was the same for them. Plus they were busy, important, successful people, doing important stuff, so how hard could piloting be? With respect to the geeks, I am one, big time Aviation is a hobby and sometimes rises to the level of avocation (I am flying tours this summer ). These folks tend to be very technically inclined, sometimes mechanically as well, hence perhaps it is more of a Dunning-Kruger effect in this demographic. And they are busy, important, successful people, so how hard could it be? These are the folks that never have to ask their autopilot "What are you doing, now?" But when task saturation hits, or George goes tango uniform, bad things start to happen.Note I use the term "relatively well-off", because real high net worth individuals (HNWI) are either flying their Honda Jet or CJ3, or being flown by someone else gekk killer. love the idea, the name sucks... geek-asket? geek-offin? geek-trap? im kinda after one of the old vs as they cheap! or a mooney, they kinda as well, but maybe the insurance.... |
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Cirrus is my dream plane. I had the money when I got my private pilot license. Ultimately, I decided on the 182 as it was so similar to the 172 trainer and I felt I needed more flight time before moving up. I have found the 182 meets my mission so well I may never upgrade. Still look over a Cirrus whenever one is on the line. |
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Originally Posted By AA717driver: Just because you're good at one thing, doesn't mean you're good at another. Same reason you never take financial advice from a pilot. |
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Circus has a service hangar behind our hangar. They have big show and tell days often. Probably 90% of the people that show up have Audi's, Porsche's and Beemers. The flight sim building they have is a big draw as the people buying the Vision jets spend quite a bit of time in the flight sim building before going away in their Vision jet. The same people will invariably pull out of their short taxi way in front of the Cirrus hangers directly in front of us as we taxi our aircraft to the hangar for overnight maintenance. They aren't as bad as they used to be. But they still do it often enough to be a PITA. |
I hated going to weddings. All the grandmas would poke me and say "You're next". They stopped that when I started doing it to them at funerals.
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis
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Originally Posted By Kitulu: I'm an A&P/IA. I will probably never make enough to comfortably afford my own plane. It's not the cost of the plane that's the issue. You can find older Mooneys, Cessnas, Pipers, etc., for $60K. It's the cost of parts that is the real killer. $1500 for a cylinder. $57 for a little metal plate that a gear downlock spring attaches to. $25K for an engine overhaul. $60K for a new engine. The list goes on... [Rant] Why do aircraft engines cost so much? Textron seems almost like a cartel, regulating and fixing prices on these things. The newer Lycomings are at least fuel injected, but the 1960s and 1950s Lycomings are dinosaur tech. Not saying they are not great, durable rock-crushing engines, but it's extremely old tech and parts should cost as much as AutoZone parts. I watched a video where these guys built a Vickers Vimy replica, to fly the path of a 1919 Vickers Vimy that flew from London to Australia, via India and Indonesia. There were no original Rolls Royce Eagle engines available, so they used two Chevy high performance crate V8 race engines, which can be had for $6000 ea or so. Makes sense to me. Why have prices gone so high since the 60s, even adjusted for 2025 dollars the prices for very low tech aircraft engines seems hugely inflated. Why should a rebuilt ultra low tech air cooled 180hp Lycoming 4 banger cost $55,000? Blows my mind.  It doesn't help that FAA regulations make it extremely difficult to repower your aircraft with anything but the original engine type and model. [/Rant] |
"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
| ...getting places faster than most Cessna pilots. As much as I love to poke fun at the Cirrus pilots calling 15 mile right final, I'd love to have one. As an airline pilot, I despise going to the airport when not working. Most of the places I like to travel are out of the way spots that airliners either don't go to, or have very limited service. From my location, I could get to a lot of the east coast within 2-3 hours. Parachute is a nice backup for engine failures over mountainous terrain or low clouds enroute. |
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Beautiful planes though, this is from an air show a couple of years ago. Attached File |
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Originally Posted By _DR: [Rant] Why do aircraft engines cost so much? Textron seems almost like a cartel, regulating and fixing prices on these things. The newer Lycomings are at least fuel injected, but the 1960s and 1950s Lycomings are dinosaur tech. Not saying they are not great, durable rock-crushing engines, but it's extremely old tech and parts should cost as much as AutoZone parts. I watched a video where these guys built a Vickers Vimy replica, to fly the path of a 1919 Vickers Vimy that flew from London to Australia, via India and Indonesia. There were no original Rolls Royce Eagle engines available, so they used two Chevy high performance crate V8 race engines, which can be had for $6000 ea or so. Makes sense to me. Why have prices gone so high since the 60s, even adjusted for 2025 dollars the prices for very low tech aircraft engines seems hugely inflated. Why should a rebuilt ultra low tech air cooled 180hp Lycoming 4 banger cost $55,000? Blows my mind. https://i.postimg.cc/q7m84665/Untitled.jpg It doesn't help that FAA regulations make it extremely difficult to repower your aircraft with anything but the original engine type and model. [/Rant] You answered your own question. All parts installed on a certificated aircraft have to be traceable to the holder of the FAA-PMA certificate. |
"You see? It's like I've always said; You can get more with a kind word and a two-by-four than you can with just a kind word." - Marcus Cole
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Originally Posted By Kitulu: You answered your own question. All parts installed on a certificated aircraft have to be traceable to the holder of the FAA-PMA certificate. Originally Posted By Kitulu: Originally Posted By _DR: [Rant] Why do aircraft engines cost so much? Textron seems almost like a cartel, regulating and fixing prices on these things. The newer Lycomings are at least fuel injected, but the 1960s and 1950s Lycomings are dinosaur tech. Not saying they are not great, durable rock-crushing engines, but it's extremely old tech and parts should cost as much as AutoZone parts. I watched a video where these guys built a Vickers Vimy replica, to fly the path of a 1919 Vickers Vimy that flew from London to Australia, via India and Indonesia. There were no original Rolls Royce Eagle engines available, so they used two Chevy high performance crate V8 race engines, which can be had for $6000 ea or so. Makes sense to me. Why have prices gone so high since the 60s, even adjusted for 2025 dollars the prices for very low tech aircraft engines seems hugely inflated. Why should a rebuilt ultra low tech air cooled 180hp Lycoming 4 banger cost $55,000? Blows my mind. https://i.postimg.cc/q7m84665/Untitled.jpg It doesn't help that FAA regulations make it extremely difficult to repower your aircraft with anything but the original engine type and model. [/Rant] You answered your own question. All parts installed on a certificated aircraft have to be traceable to the holder of the FAA-PMA certificate.  |
"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
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Originally Posted By FaygoJoe: I'd take one of these bad boys if I could. But to be honest I'd be pretty happy with a Caravan done up all nice inside. https://europeanaircraftsales.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/21_M600SLS_Nighthawk_23_web.jpg Very nice. I love the new M700 Fury also - 100hp up from the 600. Too bad the cost of ownership for turboprops is so high, even if I could afford the initial cost of the aircraft.  |
"According to Argonne National Laboratory, it takes 100 pounds of battery in an EV to go a distance achieved by only one pound of gasoline in an ICE vehicle"
