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Posted: 9/22/2024 11:46:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sixers79][Edited]
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Simple, short and sweet like the subject line suggests...if you have a weapon (AR or any other) considered as a 'Firearm' under the purview of the ATF interpreting from the NFA & GCA, meaning it has an overall length greater than 26" and no shouldering or recoil/report-bearing surface (i.e., a buttstock) then irrespective of its original barrel length, can you convert it to a pistol (i.e., installing a barrel with length less than 16", overall length becomes less than 26")? Probably has been answered elsewhere before but I can't find the answer at the moment... |
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Originally Posted By OmegamanX: Simply put you cannot change a rifle into a pistol legally. Unless it was originally a pistol before it was a rifle? |
I think the hardest thing for good LE working for good agencies to really absorb is that there are whole departments full of exactly the complete fuckheads we rail against here. - vectorsc
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Originally Posted By sixers79: Simple, short and sweet like the subject line suggests...if you have a weapon (AR or any other) considered as a 'Firearm' under the purview of the ATF interpreting from the NFA & GCA, meaning it has an overall length greater than 26" and no shouldering or recoil/report-bearing surface (i.e., a buttstock) then irrespective of its original barrel length, can you convert it to a pistol (i.e., installing a barrel with length less than 16", overall length becomes less than 26")? Probably has been answered elsewhere before but I can't find the answer at the moment... yes. <-----07FFL/SOT |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By OmegamanX: Simply put you cannot change a rifle into a pistol legally. You sure as hell can. "First a rifle always a rifle" applies, BUT, if first assembled as a handgun, then the firearm can later be configured as a rifle, then subsequently reconfigured as a handgun. See ATF Ruling 2011-4 - Pistols Configured from Rifles; Rifles Configured from Pistols |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By 1Tribe: How was it designated on the 4473? There is ihe answer you seek Whats on the 4473 is immaterial. A dealer could erroneously write "machine gun"......that doesn't make it a machine gun. Prior to the fall of 2008, the Form 4473 only had options for "Handgun", "Long Gun" or "Both".........no option for "Other firearm" as there is today. Thats why many dealers would ask the buyer what they were going to build. Even if the dealer erroneously checks "Handgun" or "Long Gun", that doesn't change what the firearm actually is. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By sixers79: We're not talking about rifles in this topic, please read more carefully next time. 'Rifles' are not 'Firearms' for the purposes of the GCA, and on 4473s. Yes "firearm" to pistol is legally fine. The hiccup is that the definition of SBR (short barreled rifle) includes weapon made from rifle. A "firearm" isn't a rifle, so putting a short barrel on it is fine. |
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Originally Posted By sixers79: Rifles' are not 'Firearms' for the purposes of the GCA, and on 4473s. Originally Posted By sixers79: Rifles' are not 'Firearms' for the purposes of the GCA, and on 4473s. Of course they are. "Firearm" is the top level category. From the GCA: (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. Note there is no length or BBL length in the definition. Your original premise is incorrect: Originally Posted By sixers79: If you have a weapon (AR or any other) considered as a 'Firearm' under the purview of the ATF interpreting from the NFA & GCA, meaning it has an overall length greater than 26" ... |
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Of course they are. "Firearm" is the top level category. From the GCA: (3) The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. Note there is no length or BBL length in the definition. Your original premise is incorrect: You took the top level definition from the document...you're omitting the crucial detail for the untrained eye here that all 'firearm's are further categorized into things like 'rifle' and 'silencer' and 'pistol' based upon the classifying criteria I named, like barrel length to name one...so while 'firearm' is indeed a 'fallback' category of sorts for those that don't fall into the other categories, defining it plainly by listing the section definition as you did there is quite misleading to say the least... |
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Originally Posted By sixers79: You took the top level definition from the document...you're omitting the crucial detail for the untrained eye here that all 'firearm's are further categorized into things like 'rifle' and 'silencer' and 'pistol' based upon the classifying criteria I named, like barrel length to name one...so while 'firearm' is indeed a 'fallback' category of sorts for those that don't fall into the other categories, defining it plainly by listing the section definition as you did there is quite misleading to say the least... It doesn't matter from where he took the definition. Your statement "Rifles' are not 'Firearms" for the purposes of the GCA, and on 4473s." is simply not correct. Your statement is not just misleading, but false. |
Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE
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Originally Posted By RenegadeX: Correct. You who wrote "Rifles' are not 'Firearms" as per GCA68. Thus I provided the actual definition of firearm per GCA68 which shows they are. OK I lose the legal fist fight on this one, yes you got me. But you also know what I meant...that being that a 'rifle' is a more niche and specific subcategory of a 'firearm' per the GCA... |
| Context matters. "Firearm" as a term can be used to mean essentially "a GCA/Title 1 Firearm and nothing else", ie, not a Pistol or Rifle. It would probably be useful if there could be another term coined for not-anything-else-firearms. |
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CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders