Posted: 2/1/2025 7:34:15 PM EDT
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I'm going into a second career. I'm prior CIA (don't care if you believe it or not; I'm offering it as background). I have two agencies showing interest but I don't know what I don't know so I was hoping more experienced members might help my decision making. I have a COE from a university PD job. The pay is exceptionally good. I like the hours. I'm very interested in it. I have to still pass the BI, medical, and psych. Shouldn't be a problem, but you never know of course. I take nothing for granted. I have interest from a state level criminal investigator job (special agent). It's pretty early. I have to do the PT and panel. Pay looks comparable the university job. Maybe a bit better but not a ton. Id imagine the investigator job is more desk work. Are there any perks for the SA position that I'm missing? It's probably more normal hours. I'll probably go with whatever gets me a final offer first. That appears to be university. However, I'm hoping some of you can help me with my decision making. Thanks. |
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Not a copper, but: It seems the jobs are fundamentally different. Would you rather be a patrol officer or an investigator? Whether you're going to like the job day to day seems like the larger consideration. |
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You ever notice that no one says "don't judge me" when they've done something positive? - gearjammer351
Do it. GD needs entertainment. Your misery will amuse us. - Cypselus
You ever notice that no one says "don't judge me" when they've done something positive? - gearjammer351
Do it. GD needs entertainment. Your misery will amuse us. - Cypselus
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University cop if you want stable employment and quality time with wife and family. State investigator job if you want action and aren’t too concerned about screwed up in your marriage. If you’re in your mid 50s with your prior employment history, you should look at federal court system very decent pay fixed hours very complex investigations. |
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Originally Posted By 18B30: University cop if you want stable employment and quality time with wife and family. State investigator job if you want action and aren’t too concerned about screwed up in your marriage. If you’re in your mid 50s with your prior employment history, you should look at federal court system very decent pay fixed hours very complex investigations. 40s actually. The investigator job is more action? How so? I figured it's mostly paperwork. |
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Originally Posted By 18B30: State investigator job if you want action and aren’t too concerned about screwed up in your marriage. That sounds like the Agency. If you aren't a divorced alcoholic yet give it a few years. Definitely was a factor in me wanting to try something else. |
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investigators investigate. You might only have a few counties or half the state. But, you may have some severe constraints in your investigating. They will tell you what cases to be proactive around, and which ones you need to slow roll. Lot of places just starting to come out of thoroughly not investigating politically correct issues and leaving a lot of real problems to fester. university policing isn't policing like you're thinking. Job One is protecting the brand. Everything else is very much like being a security guard, except with the threat of court and greater chances of being sued. Colleges and universities are good places for good officers at the end of their career go to pasture. They are terrible places to learn the trade. The question is, what is your energy level? What do you really want to do? |
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What I learned from my part-time job at a major university in Boston was that the campus cop job was basically to protect the students from their own stupidity, very unlike a municipal street cop (my other part time job back then). Campus police usually have decent budgets to work with, offer free tuition to employees (and their families), and good benefits. They do investigate the occasional murder, assaults, robberies and rape cases, but they tend not to be heavy handed as university brass don't like "publicity" about problems on campus. |
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Spent my first 10 years as a University PD Sgt. It has its ups and downs. And make no mistake about it, all Universities cover things up. Some more than others. You're usually restricted to the University owned property and adjacent roads, unless there is a MOU in place with local PD's. And some Uni PD's do not have jurisdiction over certain crimes. Where I worked, we had jurisdiction over everything except homicide, but another local university can not investigate allegations of rape, malicious wounding, and a few other high listed felonies. The politics at my current Sheriff's Office are nothing compared to the Uni PD... But, there are usually educational incentives, and while still dangerous, it's not quite the level dealt with outside of it. Oh, and prepare to here "Do you know who my father is?!?!" a LOT!!! |
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Originally Posted By high_order1: investigators investigate. You might only have a few counties or half the state. But, you may have some severe constraints in your investigating. They will tell you what cases to be proactive around, and which ones you need to slow roll. Lot of places just starting to come out of thoroughly not investigating politically correct issues and leaving a lot of real problems to fester. university policing isn't policing like you're thinking. Job One is protecting the brand. Everything else is very much like being a security guard, except with the threat of court and greater chances of being sued. Colleges and universities are good places for good officers at the end of their career go to pasture. They are terrible places to learn the trade. The question is, what is your energy level? What do you really want to do? Originally Posted By LenS: What I learned from my part-time job at a major university in Boston was that the campus cop job was basically to protect the students from their own stupidity, very unlike a municipal street cop (my other part time job back then). Campus police usually have decent budgets to work with, offer free tuition to employees (and their families), and good benefits. They do investigate the occasional murder, assaults, robberies and rape cases, but they tend not to be heavy handed as university brass don't like "publicity" about problems on campus. Originally Posted By itsahak: Spent my first 10 years as a University PD Sgt. It has its ups and downs. And make no mistake about it, all Universities cover things up. Some more than others. You're usually restricted to the University owned property and adjacent roads, unless there is a MOU in place with local PD's. And some Uni PD's do not have jurisdiction over certain crimes. Where I worked, we had jurisdiction over everything except homicide, but another local university can not investigate allegations of rape, malicious wounding, and a few other high listed felonies. The politics at my current Sheriff's Office are nothing compared to the Uni PD... But, there are usually educational incentives, and while still dangerous, it's not quite the level dealt with outside of it. Oh, and prepare to here "Do you know who my father is?!?!" a LOT!!! Thanks to all of you very much. Gives me a lot to think about. I think I am leaning university. It sounds nice to me. I've had enough "action guy". Honestly though, I'll consider myself lucky to have employment with any of them. I'm not so picky as to turn down a bird in hand for an uncertainty. |
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Do you have kids that could benefit from the university? Assuming you’d be working directly for them as an employee. The State is probably going to have you going all over the place. That may be attractive, or may be a hassle. That is dependent on you. Campus police is going to be pretty cushy, but dealing with drunks and childish domestics. There may also be the factor of the university having more “politics” as people are paying a lot of money to be there. Would you rather deal with relatively easy routine, or more varied work? Otherwise look at who offers better retirement. |
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Originally Posted By BuddyChryst: Do you have kids that could benefit from the university? Assuming you’d be working directly for them as an employee. The State is probably going to have you going all over the place. That may be attractive, or may be a hassle. That is dependent on you. Campus police is going to be pretty cushy, but dealing with drunks and childish domestics. There may also be the factor of the university having more “politics” as people are paying a lot of money to be there. Would you rather deal with relatively easy routine, or more varied work? Otherwise look at who offers better retirement. Yeah, that was definitely a selling point for the university. It's a good school and getting a chunk off tuition is something I consider. I'm pretty sure one of my kids could get in. |
| University police would seem to be a nightmare of political correctness and dealing with snowflakes. It really depends on your level of patience and whether you want a "retirement" job or not. An investigator position would interest me much more. Possibility of more freedom and less PC bullshit. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Another question I didn't realize - looks like HR 218 wouldn't apply to university cops? That's a big deal. LEOSA would apply if you carry a gun and have arrest authority. In Texas they are fully licensed peace officers and fit all the criteria for 218. Is this a security position or a uniformed police officer position? Would you need to go through an academy and hold a state certification for the UPD job? As far as which one, it would depend on what the jobs entail. You don't provide a lot of info on what the "state investigator" job is. There a ton that won't qualify for LEOSA as well. CPS investigators and HHS are the two main ones that I can think of off the top of my head. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Another question I didn't realize - looks like HR 218 wouldn't apply to university cops? That's a big deal. On the other hand, I do not know if CIA retirees qualify or not. Someone would have to dig into their status vs. the current LEOSA law. |
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Originally Posted By LenS: LEOSA does not apply unless the PD is a state agency. For instance, Boston College Police do not qualify even though they are sworn in as special state police. I have a friend who retired as a Det. Lt. from that college PD. On the other hand, I do not know if CIA retirees qualify or not. Someone would have to dig into their status vs. the current LEOSA law. My alma mater! That's what I found as well. So that's a big loss. That really pushes me to the state job if I can get it. CIA definitely doesn't qualify. We are not a law enforcement agency. Its more breaking laws overseas than enforcing laws. At best maybe our SPOs that protect HQS might qualify. I was an Operations Officer though. |
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Originally Posted By turbolarry: Can you go along with the PD job until the investigator position pans out? I get the line of thinking. Currently it's just a COE, so it's not like they've fully committed to me. But bailing once I've just started is not a good look. |
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Originally Posted By ThatGuy91K: LEOSA would apply if you carry a gun and have arrest authority. In Texas they are fully licensed peace officers and fit all the criteria for 218. Is this a security position or a uniformed police officer position? Would you need to go through an academy and hold a state certification for the UPD job? As far as which one, it would depend on what the jobs entail. You don't provide a lot of info on what the "state investigator" job is. There a ton that won't qualify for LEOSA as well. CPS investigators and HHS are the two main ones that I can think of off the top of my head. It's uniformed police. Same certification as other state and local police agencies. No different there. The difference is that the LEOSA statute specifically says government entities and this is a private university. That's the only difference but it appears to be enough under the statute to preclude it applying to me. The state criminal Investigator job is part of their dept of revenue. It's an armed peace officer position doing 1811 type work at the state level. I don't have a ton of details as I haven't had the interview yet. This is giving me a ton of things to ask about though and whether they are qualified law enforcement officers is one. I believe that they are. The job title is Special Agent, which doesn't mean a ton but gives some indication. |
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Having worked as a bouncer in a bar in my youth, and the very beginning of my LE career spent in patrol, dealing with drunk teenagers is not something I would choose to do again, especially in my later years. I started in the PD in housing and then went to the feds, I have no desire to ever go back to patrol and deal with all the BS. I would think a uniformed campus patrol job would be something for the young energetic spring buck looking to play cops and robbers. Unless the local PD in the area always responds to fights and parties as a normal back up, I would be more interested in the state investigator job.... |
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Its two very different jobs. Most criminal investigations jobs are very boring. Like you really don't even need a badge or gun boring. Primarily desk work. Reviewing case files, video, etc. Maybe a few interviews here or there. I don't know how other agencies work but detectives where I work don't actually apprehend/transport anyone. If they do go out in the field after someone they have uniformed patrol there to handle that portion. They are cops but its an extremely different experience from patrol work. Maybe your state investigators position will be different. But I'd bet not by much. Depending on what your investigating you may only be citing people with a summons. Or you may not actually arrest anyone at all. IE forward an investigative packet to the DA's office and they decide to pursue charges/issue a warrant. You may or may not be on call as an investigator. But otherwise will likely be Monday-Friday 9-5. You'll be assigned cases that you are expected to investigate/follow up on. You may or may not have 'pressure' to solve them/produce results. It can either be super laid back and you barely do anything in a given day. Or slammed with work and you are grinding the entire time. Hard to know the 'pace' of it. University PD might be a uniformed police officer. But its a dramatically different experience from regular uniformed police officer work. Your primary job is not enforcing the law. Its the safety of students. Your more like a security guard with police powers. You may have to handle an occasional fight, disturbance, investigate a sexual assault, or stuff of that nature. But its going to be super laid back compared to normal police work. Not a bad gig. But if you are looking to go out and do policing its not going to be that. Its a much more watered down version. Depending on your shift you may work 12's or maybe 10's or maybe 8's. Unlikely to be on call. Most likely won't get held over on your shift unless something major happens. Sometimes places have set shifts (I already know what days I'll be working/off on in 2026). Some places might have alternating/rotating shifts. If you are looking to mainly just chill and walk/drive around until someone calls the police about something this gig will be that. If you are interested in being an actual police officer/patrol deputy at some point in the future. Neither position will completely prepare you for that job but a University PD will be closer. Since you've had a previous career it really just depends if you are just looking for a decent job to do or if you have goals and aspirations with the second career. And its also hard to say which is better without knowing what kind of investigations the state investigator does. Like I know some guys that worked as a state investigator that primarily investigated medicare fraud/insurance or something like that. Pretty much super boring paperwork/investigations. I've been in law enforcement a long time and uniformed patrol is my thing. I like working out and looking good in a tailored uniform. Maybe there is an emergency or a hot call I can respond to and there is some action/excitement. Maybe someone is in distress and I actually help them out. Maybe its a slow day and I cruise around my zone and hang out with my squad. Maybe I get in a vehicle pursuit and do some fast/aggressive driving. Maybe I get in a little tussle arresting a suspect. Etc. Most days are the same but some days are exhilarating. Either way I have no freaking idea what's in store for the day. An investigations gig is pretty much the same thing 99% of the time. Day in and day out. Unless you get called out to a homicide scene or something like that. Probably won't happen as a state investigator. |
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Depends on what you want out of your job and how much you hate college students I won't hold your time at the Culinary Institute of America against you. |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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I'm finishing out my career at a University. My kids get tuition waivers, the pay is competitive, FOP membership, and the working conditions are downright nice. We don't see much action at all. And it's not policing like you see in the TV or Movies. The hard part is knowing when to flip the switch and go into real cop mode. I refer to it as the times when I'm actually expected to do my job. Most shifts are just doing reports, locking doors, and maybe a couple of traffic stops. The student population I deal with is chock full of outstanding young men and women who will never be part of society's ills. We have this weird two track justice system that allows me to divert many offenses to the Dean of Students which can really work well if played properly. My goal is to make it maybe three or four more years and then put my duty weapon in a wooden case with a plaque that reads "NEVER AGAIN". You will get more than your fair share of events that have high security postures. I have come to hate election years. Some of our debate series have drawn more security attention than I'd care to admit. Sports events are good for ruining your weekend. And we are constantly grinding on response to active shooters. All these things are important, but have absolutely no flash or recognition. If it is action you crave, don't go to a University. |
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Originally Posted By jeepnstein: We have this weird two track justice system that allows me to divert many offenses to the Dean of Students which can really work well if played properly. My favorite lever to pull: You will stop this behavior or I will have the registrar hold your grades until court |
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Originally Posted By high_order1: Lol My favorite lever to pull: You will stop this behavior or I will have the registrar hold your grades until court Originally Posted By high_order1: Originally Posted By jeepnstein: We have this weird two track justice system that allows me to divert many offenses to the Dean of Students which can really work well if played properly. My favorite lever to pull: You will stop this behavior or I will have the registrar hold your grades until court |
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I somehow missed this thread the first time around. I’ve walked both paths, coming from a federal career and playing campus cop in retirement. My career track was: college to be an English teacher (I’m not kidding) while army NG MP—> hated teaching and went municipal PD for just over seven years—> federal for 20–> year off from life and then campus officer the last four years. I’d imagine campus investigations are a mix of my federal, municipal, and campus experiences. My agency doesn’t have any dedicated investigators, merely some folks who have attended extra training for certain things. The campus I work on is smack in the middle of a smaller city with all associated city problems. Dealing with the mentally ill, polysubstance abusers, both of the above, homeless, transients, thieves, and those dead from overdoses are frequent parts of my duties. I’m usually questioning awkward college kids, suspicious people found hanging around, or petty thieves. All of those populations are relatively easy to deal with and they aren’t masters of deception. Even with the addicts who think they are tough and evasive, being firm but polite is all I need to do 95 percent of the time. Despite the classy campus and “spoiled rich kid” type of student body, I’m in more physical altercations per month than I was in during my entire life before this job— most of which is with the aforementioned lower dregs of society. Be aware that any perceived authority on campus, even in a polo shirt and jeans getting lunch, will absolutely inevitably have you become the target of a fan club comprised of the opposite sex. If you think badge bunnies that chase municipal officers are intense, wait until you meet the 18 year olds away from home for the first time with daddy issues. Always start walking into an open area with people whenever they engage with you, lest you be accused of anything. In my federal role I dealt with mainly white collar criminals whom were often educated, polite, and blunt. Yet it was more aggravating than dealing with street criminals as I do every day now. They had practiced and honed their deception skills, making it far more difficult for us. Cases were dragged out for years. Lots of motions of discovery or subpoenas for the most simple of shit. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Another question I didn't realize - looks like HR 218 wouldn't apply to university cops? That's a big deal. This is entirely dependent on whether the school is a private institution or a state institution. State Systems and state owned schools are all covered by HR 218. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Another question I didn't realize - looks like HR 218 wouldn't apply to university cops? That's a big deal. As others have said, it must be a govt employer to be leosa eligible. Private institutions that have sworn LE employees are typically not eligible for Leosa. In my area we have 2 state Universities right next to a private university. All three have sworn campus officers that carry weapons. Only the State University officers are covered by leosa |
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Never been either, but I always got along well with the University Police. I would REALLY check and see if they have campus housing as that's where the majority of your problems will come from. If they had a real shitbird or a faculty/political hot potato, we would always be happy to show up and take the case over. The jurisdictional lines were more of a suggestion than a hard divide, esp in off campus housing. All the state investigators I know have a massive, crushing case load. So there is that. |
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Originally Posted By high_order1: investigators investigate. You might only have a few counties or half the state. But, you may have some severe constraints in your investigating. They will tell you what cases to be proactive around, and which ones you need to slow roll. Lot of places just starting to come out of thoroughly not investigating politically correct issues and leaving a lot of real problems to fester. university policing isn't policing like you're thinking. Job One is protecting the brand. Everything else is very much like being a security guard, except with the threat of court and greater chances of being sued. Colleges and universities are good places for good officers at the end of their career go to pasture. They are terrible places to learn the trade. The question is, what is your energy level? What do you really want to do? This. University PD guys were in the same union I was in. Other than the daily eye candy it’s a slow paced job and doing the right thing is often thwarted by the Education Eggheads that the UPD report to. They look at you as a somewhat necessary evil and do not treat the officers with respect. Fine if you’re a go along to get along for the check type. Untold number lockouts in the dorms to let the kids back in their rooms, stolen items, a few speeding tickets, the drugs and DWI enforcement, and the odd suicide, death or rape investigation. |
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Originally Posted By WilsonCQB1911: Another question I didn't realize - looks like HR 218 wouldn't apply to university cops? That's a big deal. May depend on your state. In NY they’re police officers period. Private colleges are normally security officers here not police or peace officers so no HR218 unless they had another badged job elsewhere which was pretty normal. When I went to school the Syracuse University Security Officers carried guns but were almost all retired or moonlighting Syracuse City PD officers. The state university right next door sharing services, was SUNY State Forestry College that had their own UPD police officers…and at that time were armed only with a radio, cuffs, a baton and pepper spray. Right adjacent to the gut of Syracuse. Being armed at the state college was at the discretion of the College President. They and I think all SUNY PD are armed all the time now. I just found it odd that the police were unarmed and the security guards next door were armed. |
The only hyphenated names I like are cartridge names......30-06, 30-40, 38-55 etc.
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Those of you getting tuition waivers, how does that work? I started at Cleveland State University PD in Ohio (a glorious 6 weeks it was) and when I told them I was leaving they tried to push that tuition reimbursement on me. Spouse and kids get free undergraduate tuition. I would get six quarter hours. Which was all a lie because it counted towards your salary and you had to pay income taxes on the deferred tuition. My wife was graduating so it wouldn't cover graduate school, I was a year away from graduating and my only child was seven. I decided to leave and went to a ghetto suburb. Still here 27 years later. Never a dull moment. Salary easily pays for all my kids college compared to what I would be making at the college. duh, forgot the reason i posted this: i retire in 5.5 years, but my LT's brother-in-law is chief at another local college and has been looking for people. Not sure if I want another full time LE job even if it is at a college. |
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Feb 2025 It’s 48 to 0 and we’re only 2 minutes into the first quarter
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think. There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
trobertson5-0 I wasn't put in jail for what I did. I was put in it for what I think. There were FBI agents posting in my threads. I've seen the discovery showing this.
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Originally Posted By Sully3089: University police would seem to be a nightmare of political correctness and dealing with snowflakes. It really depends on your level of patience and whether you want a "retirement" job or not. An investigator position would interest me much more. Possibility of more freedom and less PC bullshit. That was my experience, nothing like having to send 20+ officers to mandatory DEI Indoc 3 times a year. Bullshit complaints are the stock in trade, hurt feelz, misgendering, and not being officer friendly. Body worn cameras largely cleaned this issue up in my last few years. For me, if I had to go do that shit again, I would want an agency one with a motorola or axon camera package required. My agency had the over the hill gang that just hung out (like me) and the kids that were entry level for certification and out the door as fast as possible. We did arrest, but had limited jurisdiction over felonies. Do you want to chill in plain clothes and go look for criminals or babysit in doubleknit polyester? Often the state has a college discount for state employees, so factor that in as well. HTH |
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