Posted: 10/23/2022 7:06:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zhukov][Edited]
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I've been diving since 1991 and the first couple of dive computers were just in the market. During that time, I developed an intense interest in decompression modeling and the mathematics behind it, all the way from Buhlmann to owning several books on the subject by Bruce Wienke. I also love gadgets and love buying electronics. That being said, I can't understand why some computers are described as "beginner" dive computers. In my mind, it's a pure marketing ploy. Before I go any further: If you're diving exotic gas mixtures, trimix, or are doing technical diving: This article does not apply to you. I'm principally talking about the needs of your average recreational scuba diver. I grabbed the spec sheet for the computer I own:
Now one can certainly argue about FEATURES, but extra features aren't something that distinguishes beginner from non-beginner. Some manufacturers tout air integration as "advanced", but how are you going to handle multi-gas when your first stage transmitter is tethered to your primary tank rig; it's not like you're going to swap it over to another cylinder in the middle of a dive. Smaller dive computers more like a watch are neat, but they're also harder to read (especially as you get older) and that doesn't define "advanced" either. If you're an instructor, being able to monitor your students' air pressure might be neat, but most only handle 4 and virtually every class I ever DM'd for had more than 4 students - and no one died because the instructor didn't have the students' pressure info. So anyway: I can understand if you want to spend more money to get some unique features, but don't tell me that such a computer is not for a "beginner". Looking at computers on Scuba.com that are in the $1,000+ range, the only difference I really see is integrated bluetooth (certainly neat to have) and maybe a compass function (nice, but not what I'd define as "advanced"). TFT screens are also cool, but need to be recharged much more frequently. Thus endeth my rant and I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.  ETA: One of the most important factors in a dive computer, arguably, is the decompression algorithm. It's also one that most people ever think about. The Buhlmann algorithm has been around for along time, but I believe that the Wienke RGBM model is superior. On the other hand: the Buhlmann ZHL-16 algorithm has certainly proven itself over time also, and it's easier to implement. |
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The Shearwater Peregrine is $550ish. Doesn’t have AI and an electronic compass. Easy to use. Big bright screen. The smaller screened watch style ones are harder to read and operate too. The manuals I’ve seen are horrid. I laugh when newer divers buy a Perdix, for example, and sell it on Scubaboard after using it for a while, saying it’s too much computer for them. I think someone even said that about a Peregrine. I always ask why a easy to read and easy to use computer is too much fake them? |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: The Shearwater Peregrine is $550ish. Doesn't have AI and an electronic compass. Easy to use. Big bright screen. The smaller screened watch style ones are harder to read and operate too. The manuals I've seen are horrid. I laugh when newer divers buy a Perdix, for example, and sell it on Scubaboard after using it for a while, saying it's too much computer for them. I think someone even said that about a Peregrine. I always ask why a easy to read and easy to use computer is too much fake them? Why would someone buy a Perdix unless they're into technical diving? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In regards to readability, I love this simple display:  Depth, dive time, no deco time in an easy-to-read format. Plus, you can toggle the bottom line for different info. What else are most recreational divers looking for? That's not to say that the Puck is the greatest, just that it's an example of an affordable, full featured computer with a feature set the same as most others costing much more, and I don't know what reduces it to "beginner" status. |
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Here's another pet peeve: Why is it so hard to find info about what the dive computer looks like during an actual dive? A bunch of reviewers are sitting at a desk and drone on endlessly about features but the one I care about most is ignored: What's the darn thing look like underwater in mediocre visibility? Is it easy to read? East to discern critical information at a glance? All the manufacturer's stock pics always show non-typical screens for the most part too. |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Why would someone buy a Perdix unless they're into technical diving? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. In regards to readability, I love this simple display: https://www.divein.com/wp-content/uploads/Diving/mares-puck-pro-dive-computer-featured-image.jpg Depth, dive time, no deco time in an easy-to-read format. Plus, you can toggle the bottom line for different info. What else are most recreational divers looking for? That's not to say that the Puck is the greatest, just that it's an example of an affordable, full featured computer with a feature set the same as most others costing much more, and I don't know what reduces it to "beginner" status. That black on gray display sucks donkey balls for low viz diving, such as what I do. Plenty of people have bought a Perdix as they wanted an easy to read, big colorful display, AI, and simple to use. Not to mention it takes a AA battery. I started with an Oceanic Geo 2.0. I saw my Advanced instructors with Perdix. I could see them 4ft away. Got a Perdix in 2018. So much easier to see and use than the Oceanic with the black on gray display. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Here's another pet peeve: Why is it so hard to find info about what the dive computer looks like during an actual dive? A bunch of reviewers are sitting at a desk and drone on endlessly about features but the one I care about most is ignored: What's the darn thing look like underwater in mediocre visibility? Is it easy to read? East to discern critical information at a glance? All the manufacturer's stock pics always show non-typical screens for the most part too. No problem with that for Shearwater. Plenty of screens shown on their website and in the manual. This is for the Petrel 3, which came with my new rebreather. https://www.shearwater.com/products/petrel-3-fischer/ |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Beginner may just be a lower price point . As you dive more ;as in more than one trip a year, then you probably need something better, probably will invest in different dive equipment also . I still use one from 1985 and have at least over 2000 dives, I have others I use also, But it is still reliable |
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Originally Posted By gasgas: Beginner may just be a lower price point . As you dive more ;as in more than one trip a year, then you probably need something better, probably will invest in different dive equipment also . I still use one from 1985 and have at least over 2000 dives, I have others I use also, But it is still reliable That's what the crux of this post is about: Define "better". |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Marie: That black on gray display sucks donkey balls for low viz diving, such as what I do. Plenty of people have bought a Perdix as they wanted an easy to read, big colorful display, AI, and simple to use. Not to mention it takes a AA battery. I started with an Oceanic Geo 2.0. I saw my Advanced instructors with Perdix. I could see them 4ft away. Got a Perdix in 2018. So much easier to see and use than the Oceanic with the black on gray display. No argument that the TFT displays allow for a lot of brightness/color/contrast. I still argue that this is not a matter of "beginner" vs. "non-beginner", but a feature difference for specific applications. The worst diving I do is in Texas lakes that have 10-15 feet visibility and the display on mine is easy to see. It frightens me to think about how bad the stuff is you're diving in. 
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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I always piss my computers off and they go into gauge mode on tech dives during decent. These are planed depth/ time dives on tables. I have used some basic computers (by todays standards) and have not had one flood or drop out they just become a timer in gauge mode. I have had a (expensive) computer that would drop out while smashing thru thermoclines, it was still working but what I think was a sudden drop in battery voltage would blank out on the wrist display for a minute or so. Sometimes simple is better. |
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Originally Posted By SeaDog951: I always piss my computers off and they go into gauge mode on tech dives during decent. These are planed depth/ time dives on tables. I have used some basic computers (by todays standards) and have not had one flood or drop out they just become a timer in gauge mode. I have had a (expensive) computer that would drop out while smashing thru thermoclines, it was still working but what I think was a sudden drop in battery voltage would blank out on the wrist display for a minute or so. Sometimes simple is better. Your computers lock you out and you’re using them on tech dives? |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: @Zhukov So what are you diving with now? That cheapo Mares Puck Pro. I traded the Aladin Sport for a Beuchat Aladin Pro after the battery ran out, then I ruined the Pro trying to mess with the battery. I really like the Shearwater Peregrine. If mine ever dies, I would strongly consider it depending on my mood. I'm getting old and decrepit, and my wife has had two knee replacements already. We may not have that much more time before we are out of the game. Planning on hitting the Maldives or Palau before that happens though. |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: That cheapo Mares Puck Pro. I traded the Aladin Sport for a Beuchat Aladin Pro after the battery ran out, then I ruined the Pro trying to mess with the battery. I really like the Shearwater Peregrine. If mine ever dies, I would strongly consider it depending on my mood. I'm getting old and decrepit, and my wife has had two knee replacements already. We may not have that much more time before we are out of the game. Planning on hitting the Maldives or Palau before that happens though. What do you call old and decrepit? I’m 53 and did full cave and took up CCR (finished two weeks ago). You’re doing easy diving compared to what I’m doing. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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I just watched another computer review of a computer (Cressi of some kind). The reviewer said "it's great for beginners because it's easy to operate and easy to read." Wait a minute. If I'm an advanced divers, I should look for a computer that's complicated to read and operate? 
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Marie: What do you call old and decrepit? I'm 53 and did full cave and took up CCR (finished two weeks ago). You're doing easy diving compared to what I'm doing. Hush, you.
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Hush, you. Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Marie: What do you call old and decrepit? I'm 53 and did full cave and took up CCR (finished two weeks ago). You're doing easy diving compared to what I'm doing. Hush, you.
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"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: Your computers lock you out and you’re using them on tech dives? They only serve as timers and depth gauges, that being said the Nemesis that dropped out in thermoclines was removed from deep FW dive kit. The way it used to be and probably still is once you exceed the safety limits the computer will warn you then tell you "GFY your on your own" and go into gauge mode. It is or was liability thing. Example being a "freight train to hell decent" will off-scale all the ones I have used. But I don't dive like that anymore. |
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Yes the term 'beginner', or 'entry level' is full retard when applied to dive computers. I started ('82) with watches and went through a few of them. Also had the Princeton Tec mechanical timer that works well (still have one) Have had early Uwatec's. Great computer, but can be accidentally adjusted by bumping contact points. I have even replaced the battery in the oil filled ones with success. Currently, I have the Mares Puck and Quad. I have had the Puck quite a few years now, but can't reliably read it. So, I bought the Quad for my old guy eyes. Happy with both. The Puck is brought along as a backup (virtually same algorithm) or as a hand out for divers that don't have one. Mares is very cagey about their algorithm and won't answer specific questions about it. (been there done that). Possible con if you don't like conservative diving: Mares will get very conservative on repetitive dives. The Peregrine is neat, but doesn't connect to your phone. Lost value to me. I have used and bought my kid the Cosmiq+. I like it. You can use an app on your phone to make changes, or whatever. If one gets into tech at some point, you can use the the Cosmiq as a BT. |
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That Cosmiq+ looks nice and the price is really attractive too. Very legible display. You were able to replace the battery of an oil-filled Uwatech? See, I couldn't - hence the early death of my Aladin Pro.
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By bap: Yes the term 'beginner', or 'entry level' is full retard when applied to dive computers. I started ('82) with watches and went through a few of them. Also had the Princeton Tec mechanical timer that works well (still have one) Have had early Uwatec's. Great computer, but can be accidentally adjusted by bumping contact points. I have even replaced the battery in the oil filled ones with success. Currently, I have the Mares Puck and Quad. I have had the Puck quite a few years now, but can't reliably read it. So, I bought the Quad for my old guy eyes. Happy with both. The Puck is brought along as a backup (virtually same algorithm) or as a hand out for divers that don't have one. Mares is very cagey about their algorithm and won't answer specific questions about it. (been there done that). Possible con if you don't like conservative diving: Mares will get very conservative on repetitive dives. The Peregrine is neat, but doesn't connect to your phone. Lost value to me. I have used and bought my kid the Cosmiq+. I like it. You can use an app on your phone to make changes, or whatever. If one gets into tech at some point, you can use the the Cosmiq as a BT. The Peregrine has Bluetooth and can connect to your phone. Where did you get the idea it doesn’t? |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: That Cosmiq+ looks nice and the price is really attractive too. Very legible display. You were able to replace the battery of an oil-filled Uwatech? See, I couldn't - hence the early death of my Aladin Pro. There have been issues with Cosmiq getting flooded. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: The Peregrine has Bluetooth and can connect to your phone. Where did you get the idea it doesn't? Speaking of which: The bluetooth feature is obviously really cool, but to make the most of it you really need to use a program of some kind for logging dives and downloading your profile. I've looked around quite a bit and have settled on the SSI app and bought the bluetooth adapter for my Puck. It was important for me that the app sync across multiple devices and the data remain in the cloud (although an export/backup option would be nice). Divemate looked promising, but I got scared off by people saying some features are broken and the developer isn't responding. |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Speaking of which: The bluetooth feature is obviously really cool, but to make the most of it you really need to use a program of some kind for logging dives and downloading your profile. I've looked around quite a bit and have settled on the SSI app and bought the bluetooth adapter for my Puck. It was important for me that the app sync across multiple devices and the data remain in the cloud (although an export/backup option would be nice). Divemate looked promising, but I got scared off by people saying some features are broken and the developer isn't responding. There’s a free Shearwater app. I use MacDive as I’m all Apple. Subsurface, which is free/open source is available, too. Desktop and iOS/Android app. |
"They know what shipwrecks are, for out of sight of land, however inland, they have drowned full many a midnight ship with all its shrieking crew." - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, 1851, on the Great Lakes
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Originally Posted By Marie: The Peregrine has Bluetooth and can connect to your phone. Where did you get the idea it doesn’t? Yes you can connect and download log and update firmware, but thats it, a meh. Cosmiq you can do that AND change settings...eanx mix, pf factor, brightness etc. As far as the Cosmiq 'flooding'. I sold A LOT of these, none flooded. Early models did have battery issues. Company quickly resolved that. Display is crisp and bright. I can read my kids safety stop countdown witin a few feet easily its that sharp. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Hush, you. Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By Marie: What do you call old and decrepit? I'm 53 and did full cave and took up CCR (finished two weeks ago). You're doing easy diving compared to what I'm doing. Hush, you. I’m leaving for Indonesia in bit so here’s my brief take. I don’t consider myself an advanced diver at around 150 dives most in tropical waters. I didn’t have a dive computer- I always borrowed my brothers spare which last trip was a peregrine. I loved it. Easy to read and no manual required to set up. I thought about getting one of those but decided I wanted ai. I purchased a descent mk2i with the benefit to me that it was a sports watch as well. The teric was slightly smaller and consequently had smaller numbers making it harder on my 62 year old eyes. I’ve done several pool dives and one lake dive to practice and ensure that I could read the display. So far I’m fairly pleased. I use many of the features- alarm, gps, stop watch, heart rare. I like that texts show up. Will see how it preforms on an actual dive. For me it’s only comparison wold be teric/perdix. If I was into tech diving I’d get the shearwater. At 62 yes my body is beat up and I hurt every day but I fully intend to keep pushing until I’m 75 or so. Calling something beginner or advanced is just marketing. |
| I have a Peregrine. My 54-year-old eyes find the bright color screen easy to read. I like the custom gradient factors, and the two-button interface. I use Subsurface mobile to log my dives, and the Peregrine syncs with that very easily. I have no interest in getting into trimix or anything like that, so I think it'll probably be the only computer I ever need. Lack of AI doesn't really bother me at this point; I can re-evaluate in the future if it ever becomes an issue. |
I don't know what will happen, or if anything will happen. But if something does, I'd rather be the guy with a gun than the guy without one.
Everyone please read this carefully. Eric802 is correct. - DK-Prof, 1/27/15
Everyone please read this carefully. Eric802 is correct. - DK-Prof, 1/27/15
| I'll add in with Marie here, Shearwater is tier-1. I have a Teric because I like a "watch-style" yet want more technical features like multi-gas. The Teric and Perdix 2 can have a very simple OC display like you're looking for. I was stubborn and dove with my Nitek 3 and Aladdin for years but the Shearwaters are superior across the board. |
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver: I'll add in with Marie here, Shearwater is tier-1. I have a Teric because I like a "watch-style" yet want more technical features like multi-gas. The Teric and Perdix 2 can have a very simple OC display like you're looking for. I was stubborn and dove with my Nitek 3 and Aladdin for years but the Shearwaters are superior across the board. Do you dive multi-gas? 2 gas or more? |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Y'all bitchin' about dive computers oughtta be thankful you didn't use the old ScubaPro bottom timers. When I started in '71, a watch and dive tables, synch'd to your brain, was the only "computers". I've since used a few different one's- the latest a Mares Puck, but it died on me finally and I ain't gonna replace it. For the diving I do nowadays- too old and broke up for tech diving anymore-, a set of Nu-Way tables works. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: Do you dive multi-gas? 2 gas or more? Yes I have in the past. What I appreciate with the Shearwater is if you're using Nitrox and regular air on the same trip, it's very easy to switch back in forth. Some computers are a little wonky for that and it's very clear with the Shearwater what gas you're using. It even has a planner function to show what the best gas for the dive profile you're planning. |
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver: Yes I have in the past. What I appreciate with the Shearwater is if you're using Nitrox and regular air on the same trip, it's very easy to switch back in forth. Some computers are a little wonky for that and it's very clear with the Shearwater what gas you're using. It even has a planner function to show what the best gas for the dive profile you're planning. But that's more of a "nicer features" thing than "computer for beginning diver" thing. It takes me all of 10 seconds to switch between Air/Nitrox on my computer - which is not to say that the Shearwater isn't a great computer. I see it as more of a Chevy vs. Cadillac argument.
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: But that's more of a "nicer features" thing than "computer for beginning diver" thing. It takes me all of 10 seconds to switch between Air/Nitrox on my computer - which is not to say that the Shearwater isn't a great computer. I see it as more of a Chevy vs. Cadillac argument. I can see your point of view but I guess I look at it, buy once/ cry once as it's adaptable to whatever type of diving you're going to do. I actually dive with two computers, I have an old Aladdin still working but my Shearwater is air-integrated. Even so, I have a single-head pressure gauge attached to my primary for redundancy. Overkill sure but I already had all the gear and like the redundancy. If you want dead-nuts simple, few options and a cheap price point the Cressi's are ok but I'd pick the Suunto Zoop over it. As Marie mentioned, look at the Shearwater Peregrine |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: But that's not what my OP was about... Doesn’t matter. Peregrine. 
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I don't know what will happen, or if anything will happen. But if something does, I'd rather be the guy with a gun than the guy without one.
Everyone please read this carefully. Eric802 is correct. - DK-Prof, 1/27/15
Everyone please read this carefully. Eric802 is correct. - DK-Prof, 1/27/15
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Originally Posted By Eric802: Doesn't matter. Peregrine. I read the manual - it's a superb computer with an excellent display. That being said: My cheapo Puck does the same thing with a (much) crappier display. If I were diving a lot, I wouldn't mind splurging on the Peregrine. With my diving limited, I probably won't upgrade unless mine dies. |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: I read the manual - it's a superb computer with an excellent display. That being said: My cheapo Puck does the same thing with a (much) crappier display. If I were diving a lot, I wouldn't mind splurging on the Peregrine. With my diving limited, I probably won't upgrade unless mine dies. It’s great to have a backup but I get where you’re coming from. Like everything, DC have gained features, become more resilient and of course cheaper. My eyesight isn’t what it used to be so the display difference of my Teric is a godsend. |
"Please do the needful..."
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Originally Posted By ATLDiver: It's great to have a backup but I get where you're coming from. Like everything, DC have gained features, become more resilient and of course cheaper. My eyesight isn't what it used to be so the display difference of my Teric is a godsend. I love the display on the Teric, but I wonder what would win out: The smaller size of the Teric with a terrific display, or a bulkier computer that has the traditional (but larger) LCD digits. I guess a lot depends on how good (or bad) your vision is. |
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Ruthless ruler of cubicle B300.2C.983
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We used sunto computers to start. They work fine and can even do nitrox - sort of because it’s a major pain in the ass to change gasses. If you do something dumb the computer will lock you out. Worst of all whatever deco model they use is way too conservative and will force you to turn the dive before everyone else’s computer is anywhere near running out of time. Upgraded to shearwater peregrine. Much better computer. The screens are intuitive and bright. Will always provide information and will never lock me out. Clear what gas you are using and easy to switch between gasses. Best of all no beeping - it vibrates if it needs to get your attention and then when you click the button to acknowledge the alert it leaves you alone. The deepest part of my dive where I’m going a foot or two beyond my (conservative) max po2 is not the time to be constantly beeping like the world is ending. Same with deco time - if in within only a couple min of my no deco time I want a reminder but not constant beeping while I’m trying to hurry and kill that last lion fish before I ascend some. We stay within the rec limits but do know they are quite conservative and go right up to the 130ft air and 1.4atm nitrox limits on our yearly Cozumel trips. The only trouble I have had with it is salt gumming up the buttons to make hard to push - my fault for not cleaning in fresh water better. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: I love the display on the Teric, but I wonder what would win out: The smaller size of the Teric with a terrific display, or a bulkier computer that has the traditional (but larger) LCD digits. I guess a lot depends on how good (or bad) your vision is. I really need to check this forum more often. I can s e my Teric display just fine since the readout is very clear and I wear readers. Prescription masks or even self-stick “reader” inserts are there plus IMO a larger screen isn’t always better. If your eyesight is that far gone the size of the screen doesn’t matter. |
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