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Posted: 5/8/2023 6:35:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: jedibluesaber][Edited]
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Hello ar15.com Thought I'd share this. 1st time anything like this has ever happened to me. I got a ring alert on my phone and I saw 3 guys coming out of a car and jump my gate and enter my backyard, the 1st guy sees me around the corner opening my patio door with my ar15 and he takes off. The other 2 guys jump back over the gate and take off when they see his buddy running back towards them. When my ring went off, I had about 8 seconds to grab my ar15 and open the patio door. I didn't know I could move that fast. I live in California and its a 10 round magazine restricted state and a magazine lock for all semi auto rifles. If the 3 burglars and the driver decided to enter my home with guns, would 10 rounds be enough to fight off the intruders? I'm beginning to think its not. The stress of having to open the lower receiver, drop the magazine, insert a magazine, close the lower receiver, make sure lower receiver is locked so the rifle fires, seems that it'll get me killed during reloading. Should I switch to a handgun instead of using my rifle? When the police arrived they informed me if I had shot them outside I would be facing murder charges and only if they were inside my house I could've legally defended myself. I told the deputy "Well shit, I got 3 guys with masks and hoodies on, wearing gloves, which is what murders and killers wear, and I have to wait until their inside to defend myself." The deputy replied that is the only way in California but also gave me an understanding nod. From this incident I learned that in California its better to call the police 1st, stay inside and be ready for intruders to enter, and to have several handguns or rifles ready to switch off in case of multiple intruders since it'll be faster then trying to reload my ar15. Any advice is appreciated. |
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Read "Principles of Self Defense" by Col. Jeff Cooper. Learn about "fatal funnel." You may also think about arranging your furniture to slow access of bad guys to your house, IOW slow them down, giving you more time. Then evaluate your home to estimate where a bullet will go if you or the BG misses. Is there a bedroom on the other side of that wall behind you? But FIRST, go onto YouTube and search for "Why I never talk to the police." It's a 2 part video; watch them both. It's about what to say and what NOT to say. It's very easy to incriminate yourself in that situation. THEN move! |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
"Obviously natural selection is bunk. Why are there so many stupid people left?"
| I think most pistols reload faster than a CA compliant AR15. The HK .45 runs 10 round mags. In my experience bad guys fear a shotgun more than a rifle or pistol. Do stay inside out of sight. The exception is if they are obviously armed and coming toward you a reasonable person would believe their life is threatened even if they are in the yard. Most burglars just want to steal your things but you don’t know that these are not cartel killers with the wrong address. Once three men have forcibly entered and you’re trapped a reasonable person would believe their life was threatened. Join USCCA and train. Keep in mind liberals see the AR15 in a negative light that does not extend to a lever action .44 mag Henry or a 10 round pistol or 12 ga riot gun. Even a bolt action that runs 10 round mags could load faster, Tikka tactical .308 w 10 round mags etc. |
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Make your castle harder to break into. DO NOT open the door. New York is the toilet on the other coast, but you might want a New York reload readily at hand. Follow the self-defense rules of your locale. Go onto YouTube and search for "Don't talk to the police."  Don't Talk to the Police |
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Originally Posted By jedibluesaber: Hello ar15.com Thought I'd share this. 1st time anything like this has ever happened to me. I got a ring alert on my phone and I saw 3 guys coming out of a car and jump my gate and enter my backyard, the 1st guy sees me around the corner opening my patio door with my ar15 and he takes off. The other 2 guys jump back over the gate and take off when they see his buddy running back towards them. https://youtu.be/hvteX11jI4g 1st video https://youtu.be/me80gKGK4Pw 2nd video When my ring went off, I had about 8 seconds to grab my ar15 and open the patio door. I didn't know I could move that fast. I live in California and its a 10 round magazine restricted state and a magazine lock for all semi auto rifles. If the 3 burglars and the driver decided to enter my home with guns, would 10 rounds be enough to fight off the intruders? I'm beginning to think its not. The stress of having to open the lower receiver, drop the magazine, insert a magazine, close the lower receiver, make sure lower receiver is locked so the rifle fires, seems that it'll get me killed during reloading. Should I switch to a handgun instead of using my rifle? When the police arrived they informed me if I had shot them outside I would be facing murder charges and only if they were inside my house I could've legally defended myself. I told the deputy "Well shit, I got 3 guys with masks and hoodies on, wearing gloves, which is what murders and killers wear, and I have to wait until their inside to defend myself." The deputy replied that is the only way in California but also gave me an understanding nod. From this incident I learned that in California its better to call the police 1st, stay inside and be ready for intruders to enter, and to have several handguns or rifles ready to switch off in case of multiple intruders since it'll be faster then trying to reload my ar15. Any advice is appreciated. Move to a free state! |
"Audemus jura nostra defendere"
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I am no expert, but it is always better to stay indoors behind locked doors and let them come to you, vs. you walking around outside trying to engage them. Not only from a legal standpoint, but also from a tactical standpoint. My thinking has always been to find a safe place to retreat where you have a tactical advantage, call 911, and be recording and on the line giving a play by play to further support your claim of self-defense and being backed into a corner so to speak. The only reason I would venture forth is if I had children or family to get to and protect. |
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Originally Posted By Johnnymenudo: I am no expert, but it is always better to stay indoors behind locked doors and let them come to you, vs. you walking around outside trying to engage them. Not only from a legal standpoint, but also from a tactical standpoint. My thinking has always been to find a safe place to retreat where you have a tactical advantage, call 911, and be recording and on the line giving a play by play to further support your claim of self-defense and being backed into a corner so to speak. The only reason I would venture forth is if I had children or family to get to and protect. Many states don't have a duty to retreat, and at least in Texas, you can use lethal force in defense of your property. Someone tries to cut out my catalytic converter, I'm not going to try to shoot him from an upstairs window. |
Death to quislings.
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Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: Read "Principles of Self Defense" by Col. Jeff Cooper. Learn about "fatal funnel." You may also think about arranging your furniture to slow access of bad guys to your house, IOW slow them down, giving you more time. Then evaluate your home to estimate where a bullet will go if you or the BG misses. Is there a bedroom on the other side of that wall behind you? But FIRST, go onto YouTube and search for "Why I never talk to the police." It's a 2 part video; watch them both. It's about what to say and what NOT to say. It's very easy to incriminate yourself in that situation. THEN move! ^This |
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| Another vote for YouTube and search for "Why I never talk to the police." |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
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Veteran of the Third Battle of Tannhauser Gate.
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OP, generally we go through your report and dissect it for errors. We're not being mean. We are trying to help you and others from making the same mistake. First, by going outside, you moved from a safe place to a dangerous one. YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE if you do something that makes shooting the other guy necessary. That is why the cop said what he did. It doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
|
Originally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd: I think most pistols reload faster than a CA compliant AR15. The HK .45 runs 10 round mags. In my experience bad guys fear a shotgun more than a rifle or pistol. Do stay inside out of sight. The exception is if they are obviously armed and coming toward you a reasonable person would believe their life is threatened even if they are in the yard. Most burglars just want to steal your things but you don’t know that these are not cartel killers with the wrong address. Once three men have forcibly entered and you’re trapped a reasonable person would believe their life was threatened. Join USCCA and train. Keep in mind liberals see the AR15 in a negative light that does not extend to a lever action .44 mag Henry or a 10 round pistol or 12 ga riot gun. Even a bolt action that runs 10 round mags could load faster, Tikka tactical .308 w 10 round mags etc. Oof. |
"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
Veteran of the Third Battle of Tannhauser Gate.
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You don't say if it was day or night. If you leave your well lit house for a dark yard, your eyes will take several seconds to adjust to the dim light . As you left the house did you check left, center and right for more bad guys, ready to pounce on you? This is a technique taught in some of those books already mentioned. |
"The Creator may be seen in all the works of his hands, but none so clearly in the wise economy of the honey bee."
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
Ungracefully surrendering the things of youth...
|
Originally Posted By Johnnymenudo: I am no expert, but it is always better to stay indoors behind locked doors and let them come to you, vs. you walking around outside trying to engage them. Not only from a legal standpoint, but also from a tactical standpoint. My thinking has always been to find a safe place to retreat where you have a tactical advantage, call 911, and be recording and on the line giving a play by play to further support your claim of self-defense and being backed into a corner so to speak. The only reason I would venture forth is if I had children or family to get to and protect. Yup. Why go to them. When they start through the doorway, it’ll be like fish in a barrel. Outside they can come from any direction and your rounds are flying around in various directions. 2-3 rounds in the first guy, a couple more in the second, if the third guy hasn’t unassed your property at that point, 2-3 and he dead, too. Grab your NY reload rifle and stay behind the concealment you have been shooting from and get on the horn with 911. |
"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
|
Originally Posted By backbencher: Many states don't have a duty to retreat, and at least in Texas, you can use lethal force in defense of your property. Someone tries to cut out my catalytic converter, I'm not going to try to shoot him from an upstairs window. Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Johnnymenudo: I am no expert, but it is always better to stay indoors behind locked doors and let them come to you, vs. you walking around outside trying to engage them. Not only from a legal standpoint, but also from a tactical standpoint. My thinking has always been to find a safe place to retreat where you have a tactical advantage, call 911, and be recording and on the line giving a play by play to further support your claim of self-defense and being backed into a corner so to speak. The only reason I would venture forth is if I had children or family to get to and protect. Many states don't have a duty to retreat, and at least in Texas, you can use lethal force in defense of your property. Someone tries to cut out my catalytic converter, I'm not going to try to shoot him from an upstairs window. You should educate yourself on how the legal system works. |
"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
|
Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: OP, generally we go through your report and dissect it for errors. We're not being mean. We are trying to help you and others from making the same mistake. First, by going outside, you moved from a safe place to a dangerous one. YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE if you do something that makes shooting the other guy necessary. That is why the cop said what he did. It doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. Hopefully @backbencher is listening. Whether he learns anything from it is another matter. |
"Now none of the frightened soldiers moved, for they saw that cowardice and valor purchased equal plots in the snipers' killing field."
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
“Everything is hard before it is easy.”
|
Originally Posted By mudholestomper: Hopefully @backbencher is listening. Whether he learns anything from it is another matter. Originally Posted By mudholestomper: Originally Posted By FrankSymptoms: OP, generally we go through your report and dissect it for errors. We're not being mean. We are trying to help you and others from making the same mistake. First, by going outside, you moved from a safe place to a dangerous one. YOU CANNOT CLAIM SELF DEFENSE if you do something that makes shooting the other guy necessary. That is why the cop said what he did. It doesn't seem fair, but it is what it is. Hopefully @backbencher is listening. Whether he learns anything from it is another matter. Perhaps you should educate yourself on how Texas laws on lethal force work after sundown. |
Death to quislings.
| OP, I'm also in CA, and you just gave another reason for "Featureless" and a pile of magazines. As others have said, stay inside, you have a tactical advantage inside YOUR home. Defense should be in layers and a dog or 2 should be in the mix as well. Glad it worked out. |
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I would go with a shotgun and a pistol backup. Some kind of battle belt with a shotgun beside it would be my choice in CA. a300 belt Pouch pouch holster medical These links are examples only and not an endorsement. Pick the gear that works for you. But me against 3 dudes I'd want 8 rounds of flight control buckshot and a pistol backup. Greater chance of a vital organ/cns stop with buckshot than .223 rounds IMO. Now, this all assumes you will put in the hours to become proficient. Also, I would tell you up front that I am biased toward a shotgun based on my own experience with shotguns and attending autopsies. So TAKE MY STATED BIAS INTO ACCOUNT IT MAY NOT WORK FOR YOU. Tactics? I'm a sort-of fit professional desk sitter who has taken a couple of classes and passed a few quals, so the chances of me going outside to confront an unknown threat are zero. I say unknown because although you saw 3, there may have been more beyond the view of your ring cameras. Also, you do not know the proficiency of the 3 you did see. What if they were proficient and motivated? What then? I know this is GD where everyone operates operationally, but dude, I would not make those decisions. I would have the family call 911, get them armed, and pick my spot to repel boarders. Anyway, good luck. And welcome to GD. WTFBBQ, he fent, aqua-bump, beans, 9mm, glock 19, etc. |
Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
What are the chances that the OP returns? 
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Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
"Pretty much the only thing that keeps me paying my taxes and not turning my house into a chickenshit particle board and stucco compound is the fact that the police occasionally kill douchebag criminals in comical ways.
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Boy from some of these responses you'd think the zombie apocalypse is upon us. Long ago, likely longer than many here have been on this earth, an old cop told me the secret to protecting your family from an intruder. "Keep them outside". I've practiced that ever since. Nothing outside my home is worth my life. But once someone enters my home the dust bunnies under the couch are worth more than theirs. I won't lock myself in a panic room and pray the cops show up, eventually. I know from personal experience they won't. But the first indication that I am around will be a loud noise followed by considerable pain. |
"Go low, go slow and preferrably in the dark", the old Sarge.
"Every man needs at least one good rifle and know how to use it," Dad.
"Every man needs at least one good rifle and know how to use it," Dad.
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Originally Posted By jedibluesaber: Hello ar15.com Thought I'd share this. 1st time anything like this has ever happened to me. I got a ring alert on my phone and I saw 3 guys coming out of a car and jump my gate and enter my backyard, the 1st guy sees me around the corner opening my patio door with my ar15 and he takes off. The other 2 guys jump back over the gate and take off when they see his buddy running back towards them. When my ring went off, I had about 8 seconds to grab my ar15 and open the patio door. I didn't know I could move that fast. I live in California and its a 10 round magazine restricted state and a magazine lock for all semi auto rifles. If the 3 burglars and the driver decided to enter my home with guns, would 10 rounds be enough to fight off the intruders? I'm beginning to think its not. The stress of having to open the lower receiver, drop the magazine, insert a magazine, close the lower receiver, make sure lower receiver is locked so the rifle fires, seems that it'll get me killed during reloading. Should I switch to a handgun instead of using my rifle? When the police arrived they informed me if I had shot them outside I would be facing murder charges and only if they were inside my house I could've legally defended myself. I told the deputy "Well shit, I got 3 guys with masks and hoodies on, wearing gloves, which is what murders and killers wear, and I have to wait until their inside to defend myself." The deputy replied that is the only way in California but also gave me an understanding nod. From this incident I learned that in California its better to call the police 1st, stay inside and be ready for intruders to enter, and to have several handguns or rifles ready to switch off in case of multiple intruders since it'll be faster then trying to reload my ar15. Any advice is appreciated. |