1983 Fox body station wagon project car. V8/5sp swap (Page 2 of 4)
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Started cleaning up the engine. If I can get away with it, I'm gonna just give it the ol' spit-n-polish on the outside and button it back up. This is the DIY rust remover gel. Homemade evaporust with cornstarch, letting it sit for half a day. I think its about clean enough for paint to stick to. Meanwhile, I'm having a bit of a hard time getting a quote from moderndriveline for the transmission. I called and spoke to 2 different mofos there and asked to put together a list of all the parts and an invoice. If they can't get it together, I'm gonna have to figure it out myself. I have the invoice for last time I stuck a TKX behind a 351. The drivetrain components should be the same. It'll be the fox-specific parts like the cross member, clutch pedal, and wiring that are different this time around.    
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I went out to put a little paint on the block to keep it from rusting on the stand. My can of blue paint went bad sitting on the shelf. There was some gray out there. So that started happening. It may get painted blue before it goes in. We'll see what happens. While I was messing with it, I finally pulled the oil pan off. Everything looks pretty decent so far. Its got a double roller timing chain and it doesn't feel like it has any extra slop in it. The few bores I can see have cross hatching left. The pistons still have the ford logo, which makes me think it hasn't been remanufactured (and bored 0.060 like they like to do  )   
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I ordered the first round of parts to put things onto the motor. - Ford performance foxbody 351w swap oil pan/pickup/dipstick kit - Ford performance 1 piece oil pan gasket - melling high volume, standard pressure oil pump - ARP oil pump shaft - blueprint timing cover - blueprint thermostat housing - fel-pro 351w gasket set (fel-pro store has sale on amazon this weekend. full gasket set for the whole motor is $35) This is most of what I'll need to get some oil back in it to run a compression test. Also, gave it a shot of blue paint. The gray didn't really look like it added enough horsepower. There was a little bit of drama pulling the timing cover off. A couple bolts snapped off in the engine. That was a good excuse to use some of the fun tools like a torch and a grinder. It did leave a couple marks in my nice new paint that I'll need to touch up. Luckily, I think the bolts that broke are some of the ones that get replaced in the accessory drive setup I'm gonna use, so they were already gonna get replaced. I got the balancer pulled off, de-rusted, and painted. Some other small things like the oil pan bolts, timing pointer, and distributor clamp are soaking to clean them up. While I was screwing around, I pulled the plugs and put a camera down into the cylinders from the top to see if there were any surprises. There wasn't anything I saw that threw a wrench into the plan, yet. 
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Welp, I'm committed now. At least, committed to swapping some fox body something from an automatic to a manual. Placed a couple orders which should hopefully be 99.87% of the transmission swap. - clutch pedal assembly, with master cylinder - bell housing - flywheel - clutch kit (w/ pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing) - clutch fork - bolts, bolts, and more bolts - transmission crossmember and mount. - shifter lever and knob - transmission - yoke - speedometer gear and clip - external slave cylinder kit - block plate Off the top of my head, I'll need to grab a starter for a manual car transmission fluid, and brake fluid. Up in the air if the driveshaft will work. Luckily there's a shop here in town that makes them. He's cheaper than online, and its done in a couple hours. I'll figure out what I'm gonna do with the wiring once I get the car up in the air and pull things apart. That's usually the reverse lights and neutral safety switch. |
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I got a few boxes in today. One of them was the malwood clutch pedal setup. I went ahead and installed that. Still have the AOD transmission. But I can at least larp with my 3rd pedal. Every damn time I do one of these, I get lazy and don't pull the pedal hanger out of the car. And every damn time, I end up cussing and inventing new cuss words. Its possible to get them in there like that. Its quite possibly more of a pain in the ass than the entire rest of the drivetrain swap.   
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Originally Posted By giantpune: I'm still undecided if this one will get a mustang/aero front end on it. If parts were available, I'd keep the grandpa look. But the front of the fenders, trim, and corner lights are different than a mustang. The corner lights, as far as I can tell, only existed on the LTD and marquis in this little 2 year run. They are close to the $800 SVO corner lights. I'll swap the whole front end to a mustang before I lose any sleep looking for a rare part for it. One of the main goals is for it to be easy to repair with readily available parts. And that pretty much rules out a big block swap. The 302 is cheaper and easier to maintain. I actually took a car with a 429 down with me to FLA to drop off when I picked this one up. Big block is cool to say you have. But less cool to track down parts for or to do things like changing spark plugs. If I ranked all the possible engine swaps that might happen, this one would get an LS before it got a BBF. I also need to track down a set of the hinges for the back glass. You wouldn't happen to know if those were shared with any more popular cars from the era would you? Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By M830A1: A 460 will fit, no headers, will still need to dent or notch stut towers, and changing plugs will require lifting engine. Whitey ( guy from back in the day) had a 460 in a full stock 78 Fairmont, chassis was cracked to hell. Asked him when was last time he changed plugs, he said never. Car couldn't hook EVER, but the burnouts were epic. Thought of doing an 85 LTD more aero look , but after 45K plus into the Zypher, it didn't happen. Had a 302 with the throttle body/carburetor contraption. Still would have been nice. We had emission laws to contend with, at the time car need to be 25 years old to be exempt. Couldn't be street legal if modded out. I'm still undecided if this one will get a mustang/aero front end on it. If parts were available, I'd keep the grandpa look. But the front of the fenders, trim, and corner lights are different than a mustang. The corner lights, as far as I can tell, only existed on the LTD and marquis in this little 2 year run. They are close to the $800 SVO corner lights. I'll swap the whole front end to a mustang before I lose any sleep looking for a rare part for it. One of the main goals is for it to be easy to repair with readily available parts. And that pretty much rules out a big block swap. The 302 is cheaper and easier to maintain. I actually took a car with a 429 down with me to FLA to drop off when I picked this one up. Big block is cool to say you have. But less cool to track down parts for or to do things like changing spark plugs. If I ranked all the possible engine swaps that might happen, this one would get an LS before it got a BBF. I also need to track down a set of the hinges for the back glass. You wouldn't happen to know if those were shared with any more popular cars from the era would you? Cheap small block, lilbitanitrous to stick with the analoge theme |
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Originally Posted By imq707s: God that's ugly.....  When I hear Foxbody...I think of this......  https://cdn.speednik.com/powerautorax55/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2024/04/the-sly-fox-tim-lynchs-coyote-powered-mustang-is-a-boosted-beast-2024-04-19_07-42-24_043702.jpg It's hideous, but like in a good way. |
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Originally Posted By giantpune: The interior looks about as good as you could ask for in a 42 year old car thats never been restored. Mostly manual stuff. It does have power seats and power locks. The locks just turn into manual locks if the power motors go out. If I have to replace anything in the power seat, it'll get manual seat tracks. Maybe some mustang buckets after I drive it a bit and see how I like these. The little change cubbies attached to the seats have to come off to make room for a floor shifter. I considered an ecoboost swap. But in the interest of simplicity and reliability, I think I would prefer an old pushrod V8. ETA - The image host apparently thinks the pictures of the interior are nudity. AI being shitty AI, I guess. Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By bmarshall1: I like it! Do something about the nose though. How is the interior? I looked into a 90s Caprice wagon but all the interiors were VERY tired and tracking down all the small parts would be a full time job in itself. Did I read you were looking to install a 5sp? How about some Turbo action for a little bit of extra oomph! The interior looks about as good as you could ask for in a 42 year old car thats never been restored. Mostly manual stuff. It does have power seats and power locks. The locks just turn into manual locks if the power motors go out. If I have to replace anything in the power seat, it'll get manual seat tracks. Maybe some mustang buckets after I drive it a bit and see how I like these. The little change cubbies attached to the seats have to come off to make room for a floor shifter. I considered an ecoboost swap. But in the interest of simplicity and reliability, I think I would prefer an old pushrod V8. ETA - The image host apparently thinks the pictures of the interior are nudity. AI being shitty AI, I guess. Comeon, do something weird om603/722.3 swap it. It's only one wire to hook up, see nice and simple |
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Originally Posted By turtlemaster: @giantpune I really like where you are going with this. I tried visualizing in my head what one of those wagons would look like with a mustang front end. Evidently people have done it, and I would totally rock one, here’s two I found online https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/530992/IMG_0732_jpeg-3629882.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/530992/IMG_0733_jpeg-3629883.JPG The white one, meh The red one has a vibe I can get into though |
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Originally Posted By giantpune: Looks like you need to catch up with the thread. I already bought the motor and a bunch of parts. The 351w/TKX is set in stone. Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By Equestrian: Comeon, do something weird om603/722.3 swap it. It's only one wire to hook up, see nice and simple Looks like you need to catch up with the thread. I already bought the motor and a bunch of parts. The 351w/TKX is set in stone. Yeah it didn't refresh when I clicked, just got up to current. I like where it's going, not everything needs to be a monster. Cool cruiser will get more use and not be a brutal daily. |
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Originally Posted By Equestrian: Yeah it didn't refresh when I clicked, just got up to current. Edit-just looked at the dates, I'm an idiot lol. I like where it's going, not everything needs to be a fire breathing, parts eating monster. Cool cruiser will get more use and not be a brutal daily. Originally Posted By Equestrian: Originally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By Equestrian: Comeon, do something weird om603/722.3 swap it. It's only one wire to hook up, see nice and simple Looks like you need to catch up with the thread. I already bought the motor and a bunch of parts. The 351w/TKX is set in stone. Yeah it didn't refresh when I clicked, just got up to current. Edit-just looked at the dates, I'm an idiot lol. I like where it's going, not everything needs to be a fire breathing, parts eating monster. Cool cruiser will get more use and not be a brutal daily. |
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Having once owned a Fox-chassis 2-door Ford Fairmont (2.3L w/4-speed manual) I'm always interested in how flexible this platform was to build stuff...from mild to wild  <example- not my car>  |
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Originally Posted By sca037: Having once owned a Fox-chassis 2-door Ford Fairmont (2.3L w/4-speed manual) I'm always interested in how flexible this platform was to build stuff...from mild to wild https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/0d/a7/8f0da7fcfcea6b5da0dff14452769acf.jpg If you find you a body, I know a place you can get a 3.8L/AOD drivetrain. Its less mild than the 2.3.
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This afternoon's project was all the crap on the bottom of the motor. - ARP oil pump shaft - melling HV oil pump - ford 351w foxbody swap pickup, oil pan, 1 piece gasket - balancer After I was done, I noticed the balancer washer in my little drawer full of motor parts. Shit. Last time I forgot that little guy on a 351w, it ran for 20 years, then the balancer and pulley fell off while it was running. I won't make that mistake again. Except today.  
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Tracking info says the TKX should be here tomorrow. I figured it was time for "out with the old". This afternoon, I yanked the AOD. I was really hoping to find a nice identifiable flexplate up in there to help affirm that this motor is a 28oz balance. So far, I haven't found solid info to back that up. The balancer on the front has the small weight like a 28oz one. When I pulled the trans, there's this oddball flexplate. It does have a small weight, the same size as the 351w 28oz one. I think I'm gonna try to roll with it. I ordered the 28oz flywheel to go on my 351w when that's ready to go in. I'll bolt it up to this motor with the starter and fire it up. If it doesn't vibrate, I'll try to finish installing the transmission and see what happens. The other little snafu for the day is I had to sawzall out the old exhaust. The transmission wouldn't clear it. And it felt like the exhaust studs were gonna snap off in the manifolds. Rather than deal with that, I cut it off. If everything looks like it'll work out with this V6/TKX combo, I can slap a couple bandaids on the exhaust to get it back up in there.   
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Good news, bad news day. Good news, my TKX showed up. Bad news, I don't think my plan of tossing it in with the V6 will work out as painlessly as I had hoped. 1984 must have been one of Ford's transition years. This motor uses a small block bell housing pattern, but the flywheel bolts are 10mm instead of the usual 7/16. I'm not too keen on buying a whole new flywheel just for this motor with smaller holes. I think I could maybe whip up some bushings to convert my 7/16 holes to 10mm. But then I'd have to fork out for another set of flywheel bolts. That took the wind out of my sails a bit on the transmission swap over the weekend. I left the car to stew on the back burner while I figure out what I'm gonna do. And in the mean time, I got the motor moved over to the other stand. Its got a bell housing and a flexplate on it. I think I just about got everything I need to spin it over for a compression test. Then if that checks out, I may accelerate my engine swap plans.  
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I got the oil filter and a gauge on it. The dewalt spinning the pump makes 75psi. I got oil coming up through all 16 pushrods. Then I hooked up the starter and the compression gauge. Every cylinder is 185-200 psi. I think the lower ones could be partially blamed on crud on the threads, my starter getting hot, and my little battery getting drained. I figured the numbers were good enough, I'm not going to bother pulling the bottom end apart so no point chasing every little point in the compression test. I think the next order of business will probably be a new set of heads.   
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I swapped the heads. While the old ones were off, I measured the deck clearance. Kudos to ford. These weren't just zero decked. My piston is actually 0.0015 - 0.0020 out of the hole. Measured with a half-thou indicator. With the new heads on, I got the next little setback. The new heads are 3/8 studs. The factory rockers won't work on those. I added rockers in with the next round of parts. I also sorted out what I'm doing for the ignition setup. The car is already a duraspark from the factory. Ford never put a 351w+roller cam+duraspark combination in a car. So the distributor is not something you can run out and pick up. After a ton of searching, I did sleuth out that there's at least one company that makes them, and its sold as oreilley's. If everything goes according to planned, the ignition system will be cheap.   
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I'm slowly making progress on it. The intake is on it. I settled for the base performer intake for now. I'm not sure exactly how bad hood clearance will be. I got the comp cams roller tip rockers. I checked with my stock pushrods and the length seems good enough for government work. Rockers are on and lashed.   
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Originally Posted By ScottsGT: Did you remove the pushrod guide plates? I ended up cutting the top half off. Usually I would remove them and replace with washers when using this style of rocker and the factory pushrod. Hardware store was out of appropriately sized washers. So I just cut off the guide plates. The only thing they do now is give the stud something to tighten against. |
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But those roller tip rockers don’t have the guides like a stock rocker to hold them in place. You need guide plates and hardened pushrods or the rockers will pivot. Edge of the rocker tip will damage the top of the valve. Early 289’s had the guide built into the head. The hole for the pushrod was slotted. They changed over to rocker tips that straddled the tip of the valve after that. |
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Originally Posted By ScottsGT: But those roller tip rockers don’t have the guides like a stock rocker to hold them in place. You need guide plates and hardened pushrods or the rockers will pivot. Edge of the rocker tip will damage the top of the valve. Early 289’s had the guide built into the head. The hole for the pushrod was slotted. They changed over to rocker tips that straddled the tip of the valve after that. Originally Posted By ScottsGT: But those roller tip rockers don’t have the guides like a stock rocker to hold them in place. You need guide plates and hardened pushrods or the rockers will pivot. Edge of the rocker tip will damage the top of the valve. Early 289’s had the guide built into the head. The hole for the pushrod was slotted. They changed over to rocker tips that straddled the tip of the valve after that. Allow me to introduce you to... the self aligning roller tip rocker. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1431-16 Self-Aligning: Yes Notes: Not designed for use with guide plates. |
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I started in on the backside. My headers wouldn't clear the 164 tooth FMX bellhousing and flexplate that I had on it. I pulled that stuff off. Then got the pilot bearing hammered in, the 157 tooth flywheel installed, and the smaller bell housing mounted up. I tried a few different carbs from my shelf. They all had something wrong with them - manual choke, or needed rebuilt, or something else. I just ordered up an edelbrock one. And I tried a few different air cleaners. This one has a bit of a drop base to help with the hood clearance. Its currently got a 3" filter. I tried a 2" in it, and it just about chokes off all the airflow. It would probably be ok with a 2.5" if it comes to that. Then I got the air cleaner and valve covers out in the yard to paint them to match the block. My air cleaner doesn't clear the large distributor cap. I ordered up the small cap to swap in.  
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Originally Posted By giantpune: Allow me to introduce you to... the self aligning roller tip rocker. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-1431-16 Those are nice! Not an option when I built my 5.0 in my ‘66 from what I remember. I went with Harland Sharpe designed for the Trick Flow heads. If memory serves me correctly, I think I used 1.6 and 1.7’s. One on intakes, other on exhaust. |
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Originally Posted By ScottsGT: Those are nice! Not an option when I built my 5.0 in my ‘66 from what I remember. I went with Harland Sharpe designed for the Trick Flow heads. If memory serves me correctly, I think I used 1.6 and 1.7’s. One on intakes, other on exhaust. Originally Posted By ScottsGT: Those are nice! Not an option when I built my 5.0 in my ‘66 from what I remember. I went with Harland Sharpe designed for the Trick Flow heads. If memory serves me correctly, I think I used 1.6 and 1.7’s. One on intakes, other on exhaust. All the calculators and napkin math I could find on the subject said there wasn't much to be gained for me with 1.7 rockers. With this cam and head combination, It was about 3HP that I wouldn't even see till 4000rpm. I stayed with 1.6 to improve my chances of being able to reuse the stock pushrods and save $125. Originally Posted By ScottsGT: I also used the Duraspark distributor with a small cap for the old school look. It is wired in to my MSD unit. Just like you mentioned earlier, one year was made for the Duraspark with a roller cam. Got it from O’Reilly’s. If yours was a 5.0, that was a thing. Ford did put a duraspark and a roller cam in a production vehicle with a 5.0, so its a real replacement part that's somewhat common. Ford never did a 351w with a roller cam and duraspark. By the time they put a roller cam in a 351w, they were already on the TFI distributors. There isn't a whole lot of demand for this specific combination, which made it harder to track down. Like with the pushrods and rockers, I wanted to keep the duraspark cause it was cheap. Trying to keep this a "budget build". I did save the TFI that was in this motor. If I ever decide to go with a holley terminator setup, they support that distributor for timing control. |
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I wasn't setting out to yank a motor today, but that happened. There really wasn't too much left holding it in. The boat anchor is out. I gave the engine bay a once over with some degreaser and the pressure washer. I'm trying to figure out if there's anything else I want to do before trying to slide the new motor down in it. It probably needs new steering rack bushings. It'd be nice to be able to get at those. The other issue is I could not figure out this duraspark wiring for the engine stand. I have the painless duraspark harness. It was not painless enough. I gave it a couple hours with of head scratching. Couldn't get it to spark as the distributor spun around. Hopefully when I get it in the car, it'll just work. 
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The motor made it into the car today. I wired up enough of it to crank it over and get a spark. Then set the base timing. After that, poured some gas in the carb and lit it off. It fired right up. Next step I think is to try to figure out the header and floor issue. Passenger side header is coming into contact with the floor. That keeps the motor tilted up in the air a tad. After that's sorted, I think the transmission can go in, and I can toss all the stuff on the front of the motor.   
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I like it, but then again I’ve always liked wagons, kinda been an oddball in that respect. I had no idea this was possible, this will be great. 93 Cobra front end with matching wheels would look really good. I assume interior is brown? Kinda limits exterior options. |
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Originally Posted By USMC7382: I assume interior is brown? Kinda limits exterior options. The interior is red cloth with a little bit of the fake wood accent. I posted pictures of it on the first page. Then the stupid image hosting site's shitty AI flagged it as "adult content". |
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Originally Posted By giantpune: The interior is red cloth with a little bit of the fake wood accent. I posted pictures of it on the first page. Then the stupid image hosting site's shitty AI flagged it as "adult content".  AI probably thought it was a pic from inside a whorehouse.
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Been slowly ticking off more little things on this car. I had a couple more in front of it on the list. Sister's hoopdie had my lift and time occupied this week while I did all the shocks, brakes, fuel lines, and some stuff under the hood. Got that done today, then my wife's car came on the lift for some basic maintenance. Hopefully soon I can get it out of the way. Then the station wagon can go back on and I can make more progress. I did get a throttle linkage figured out. Jegs makes one that works with the stock ford cable and clears the AVS2 carb. I had to machine it a tad. Probably cause I'm using a V6 throttle cable that is a bit different than a V8. Now when I stomp the gas pedal, the motor goes vroom. I got my motor mount situation figured out. Engine is sitting about where it belongs now. Today, I replaced the PS hoses and rack bushings. I test fitted the new radiator, and ordered up a fan and clutch. |
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Earlier I went net surfing looking for one of these used out of curiosity. Holy SHIT! $5000 and up for a damned roller. Do these cars have this big of a cult following? If I could find grandmas old wagon still out in the yard for the price of scrap, I’d get one. |
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Originally Posted By ScottsGT: Earlier I went net surfing looking for one of these used out of curiosity. Holy SHIT! $5000 and up for a damned roller. Do these cars have this big of a cult following? If I could find grandmas old wagon still out in the yard for the price of scrap, I’d get one. I gave $4k for mine back at the start af this thread. Another grand and i was daily driving it for a few weeks. There were a couple rollers in GA for $1200. There one (granada) for sale in ga for like $1500. There's a fairmont around for not much more. The front grill and lights are different on the granada, but its the same car. |
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I made a bunch of progress today in the tunnel. Started by pulling the flywheel back off. Replaced the rear main seal. Put in the offset dowel pins. Dialed in the bell housing to within 0.002" of concentric with the crank. Flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, fork, throwout bearing, bracket for the slave cylinder, cut a hole in the floor for the shifter, wrestled the transmission up in to place, put in the mount and crossmember and called it a day. I don't think its too far off from being able to move under its own power again. 
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Here's another shot of the interior, as it sits now. I took out the cubbies attached to the seat and now its got the shifter and clutch pedal. Lets see if the image host flags it as pr0n again. I got my driveshaft shortened, rebalanced, painted, new u-joints, and the new yoke. The motor is connected to the rear wheels again. And its just about time to start piecing together an exhaust. The station wagons have a spare tire in the trunk floor. The gas tank is shifted over to the passenger side. That means most of the existing fox body exhausts won't easily work. Whatever I cook up, I think the goal is gonna be extra quiet. As quiet as I can get it without choking out a ton of power.   
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